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In fairness: 10D AF compared to other (D)SLRs?

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FretNoMore

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Disregarding the specific cases of malfunctioning cameras that need to be calibrated by Canon, I'm getting the impression from all the focus discussion here that some people claim the 10D has unusually big problems. I have not experienced this myself; I have had issues with combinations of my 10D and 3rd party lenses, something you can't really blame Canon for though.

I'd like to know how you feel the 10D compares to other Canon (D)SLRs, and if it's better or worse than other brand's (D)SLRs. I'd find it a bit unfair to bash the 10D so relentlessly if it is as good - or bad - as any other similar camera.

I find the AF technology is nothing short of magic, and if this is the state-of-the-art then this is what we'll have to live with, and learn how to use, at least for now. Bashing it here can't possibly bring about better technology quicker, I'm sure Canon and the other makers have their inventors working full speed as it is to be first with the next generation AF.

-Anders
 
I fully agree. Thank you for putting things into propper perspective again. Good to hear that there are some people left here with enough experience and sane judgements.
 
I can only compare the 10D's AF with my EOS 50, and I have to say that the EOS 50 seems to lock on better than the 10D... with two of my lenses (Sigma 28-70 2.8 and Canon 50 1.8), the 10D just keeps re-focusing, albeit by small amounts, whereas the 50 finds a lock.

Just my 2c... I normally wouldn't touch a focusing "issue" thread (I'm quite OK with how the 10D's AF performs in general), but since you asked for a comparison as per experience with other (D)SLR I thought I'd share. :)

cheers!
Francisco
 
If anything I'd say my 10D is quicker than my 50E when using only the centre focusing point with my 28-135 IS lens.
Maybe the 10D is slower for you because it has more focusing points.......
F Reyes said:
I can only compare the 10D's AF with my EOS 50, and I have to say
that the EOS 50 seems to lock on better than the 10D... with two of
my lenses (Sigma 28-70 2.8 and Canon 50 1.8), the 10D just keeps
re-focusing, albeit by small amounts, whereas the 50 finds a lock.

Just my 2c... I normally wouldn't touch a focusing "issue" thread
(I'm quite OK with how the 10D's AF performs in general), but since
you asked for a comparison as per experience with other (D)SLR I
thought I'd share. :)

cheers!
Francisco
Click to expand...
 
As reliable as my EOS 1N (and it is!)

Think the problem with most users is the inability to use the small focusing area correctly and are focusing next to the subject onto something that is just a bit further or nearby.

Also think people don't manually set the focusing point to the center but on autoselect, so they don't really know where they are focusing on (i wouldn't know if 3 focusing points are litting up ;-p)

R
Ravioli said:
F Reyes said:
I can only compare the 10D's AF with my EOS 50, and I have to say
that the EOS 50 seems to lock on better than the 10D... with two of
my lenses (Sigma 28-70 2.8 and Canon 50 1.8), the 10D just keeps
re-focusing, albeit by small amounts, whereas the 50 finds a lock.

Just my 2c... I normally wouldn't touch a focusing "issue" thread
(I'm quite OK with how the 10D's AF performs in general), but since
you asked for a comparison as per experience with other (D)SLR I
thought I'd share. :)

cheers!
Francisco
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
My expirience is:

The 10D is very quick but the 50E is much more precise and can focus on finer details.

Kasimir
 
First thing I did on my 10D was change it to centre point focus.

When I first got my 50E I fiddled with the eye controlled focus for a while, but then turned it off and used centre point focus there too.

I like to know exactly what I am focusing on. I focus and reframe the shot if I have to.
 
I agree with you. The constant and obsessive stuff I read about focusing on this forum ruins it in my opinion. I bought the 10D because it was an SLR with an excellent viewfinder to use for fine critical focusing of many different optics. The fact is that it has a very fast and remarkably accurate AF system for broad spectrum use. I have not found it to be inaccurate at all, within the limits of what an AF system ought to be capable of.

I do exercise manual focus and manual focus overrides for difficult focusing situations. I mean, that's why Canon provides them, right?

Godfrey
FretNoMore said:
Disregarding the specific cases of malfunctioning cameras that need
to be calibrated by Canon, I'm getting the impression from all the
focus discussion here that some people claim the 10D has unusually
big problems. I have not experienced this myself; I have had issues
with combinations of my 10D and 3rd party lenses, something you
can't really blame Canon for though.

I'd like to know how you feel the 10D compares to other Canon
(D)SLRs, and if it's better or worse than other brand's (D)SLRs.
I'd find it a bit unfair to bash the 10D so relentlessly if it is
as good - or bad - as any other similar camera.

I find the AF technology is nothing short of magic, and if this is
the state-of-the-art then this is what we'll have to live with, and
learn how to use, at least for now. Bashing it here can't possibly
bring about better technology quicker, I'm sure Canon and the other
makers have their inventors working full speed as it is to be first
with the next generation AF.

-Anders
Click to expand...
 
FretNoMore,

it really depends on the lens, but I don't quite agree about the EF lenses being actually better:

ok, I find the cheap tamron 28-105 almost perfect about autofocus and I can't say the same about the ef20-35 3.5 and the ef 50 1.4 and the ef135 2.8.

now, comparing the 10D with others I'd like to say that all of the lenses I own get perfect focus on the 1Ds (no questions..period)

To be fair with EF lenses I'm not saying that they don't deliver.. I'm just saying that the tamron autofocus (at least the tamron I have) is indeed outstanding on the 10D.

Mark, NYC
 
processor said:
Without data, all talks about AF are just useless vibrations of
electons.

Do this simple experiment with different brands of cameras:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=6525626

So far, only 3 or so people provided data.
Click to expand...
Maybe so, but I would be interested in subjective experience as well.

It's tough for me to believe that the Canon DSLRs are the only ones that don't autofocus perfectly every time. I don't read the Nikon or other boards so if they have their own Mishkin-equivalents (N-ishkin?) I wouldn't know about it.

I have challenged my 10D some times by shooting wide open at f1.4 or f2.0 with very small DOFs but I very rarely do that if I can avoid it - even my 2 best fast lenses - the 50mm f1.4 and 135mm f2.0 produce better results when stopped down a bit to f2.8 or so. That's due to the optics, not the EOS AF system. Those few times when I have shot wide-open I have shot extra frames, fully expecting that the results could be less accurate than under more normal circumstances - the extra frames always seem to do the trick for me.

I do find your attempts to quantify focussing issues at extreme settings interesting and valuable, but not really all that relevant in an everyday shooting kind of way.

Now... if someone had the time, money and dedication to compare Nikon, Sigma, Canon, Kodak and Pentax cameras using the same high-quality, fast, 3rd- party AF lenses... THAT would be a result I'd be very interested in seeing.

I suspect that some if not all of those manufacturers run those tests themselves, but they ain't sharing the results. And that makes me wonder if the data is not so inconclusive or the results so close that none of them have thought it worth their while to launch an advertising campaign based on it.

I mean... don't you think that if Nikon ran extensive AF tests vs. Canon and could prove that the Nikon DSLRs focus better, someone at Nikon wouldn't start an ad campaign saying something like "Canon gives you 6 blurry megapixels... we only give you 5, but they're razor sharp?" :)
--
http://www.pbase.com/j_trujillo

 
FretNoMore said:
Disregarding the specific cases of malfunctioning cameras that need
to be calibrated by Canon, I'm getting the impression from all the
focus discussion here that some people claim the 10D has unusually
big problems. I have not experienced this myself; I have had issues
with combinations of my 10D and 3rd party lenses, something you
can't really blame Canon for though.

I'd like to know how you feel the 10D compares to other Canon
(D)SLRs, and if it's better or worse than other brand's (D)SLRs.
I'd find it a bit unfair to bash the 10D so relentlessly if it is
as good - or bad - as any other similar camera.

I find the AF technology is nothing short of magic, and if this is
the state-of-the-art then this is what we'll have to live with, and
learn how to use, at least for now. Bashing it here can't possibly
bring about better technology quicker, I'm sure Canon and the other
makers have their inventors working full speed as it is to be first
with the next generation AF.

-Anders
Click to expand...
Yet.
--
Scotty, I need more power! I'm givin it all she's got Jim!
http://www.pbase.com/daniel_jackson/root
Pbase supporter
 
I got a 10D capable of focusing.
I switch focus point manually most of the times ( as I do for metering).

I'm in the lucky position of having my subjects doing what I tell them to do, so I can determinate the focusing point manually. At least most of the time.

When I do some fast moving subjects, I use the 7 points and of course it does not get it right all the times. I not expecting that at all. I like sience fiction, but I live in a real world. Not even the 1Ds AF is bullet proof, even with its 40 something focusing points.

That is why I smile, when some guys here, complain about the 10D AF like it was the biggest deal of the world.
I'm sure someone got a real problem with the 10D they got, but....

Anyway, In my experience, 10d AF is faster, qiuter and more precise than:
Fuji S2
Nikon D1x
Kodak 14n
Canon D60

It is not as good as the Canon 1Ds. Of course there is an ocean of difference, but I would not complain. I kept 6000$ in my pocket and my clients rent a D1s for me anytime I need one.

:-)

http://www.andreabuso.com

Only 3 or 4 of the photos on my website are taken with a 10D, most of them came from films (70%) or digital backs and a D60, S40 or D1s.

Then again the reprodcution of the photos on my site is not good for quality pourpouses. They are there for my clients wich normally are more interested in content.
processor said:
Without data, all talks about AF are just useless vibrations of
electons.

Do this simple experiment with different brands of cameras:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=6525626

So far, only 3 or so people provided data.
Click to expand...
 
My 10D Has better AF than my D60 or E-20
FretNoMore said:
Disregarding the specific cases of malfunctioning cameras that need
to be calibrated by Canon, I'm getting the impression from all the
focus discussion here that some people claim the 10D has unusually
big problems. I have not experienced this myself; I have had issues
with combinations of my 10D and 3rd party lenses, something you
can't really blame Canon for though.

I'd like to know how you feel the 10D compares to other Canon
(D)SLRs, and if it's better or worse than other brand's (D)SLRs.
I'd find it a bit unfair to bash the 10D so relentlessly if it is
as good - or bad - as any other similar camera.

I find the AF technology is nothing short of magic, and if this is
the state-of-the-art then this is what we'll have to live with, and
learn how to use, at least for now. Bashing it here can't possibly
bring about better technology quicker, I'm sure Canon and the other
makers have their inventors working full speed as it is to be first
with the next generation AF.

-Anders
Click to expand...
--
Jim :^)
 
Julio Trujillo said:
processor said:
Without data, all talks about AF are just useless vibrations of
electons.

Do this simple experiment with different brands of cameras:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=6525626

So far, only 3 or so people provided data.
Click to expand...
Maybe so, but I would be interested in subjective experience as well.

It's tough for me to believe that the Canon DSLRs are the only ones
that don't autofocus perfectly every time. I don't read the Nikon
or other boards so if they have their own Mishkin-equivalents
(N-ishkin?) I wouldn't know about it.

I have challenged my 10D some times by shooting wide open at f1.4
or f2.0 with very small DOFs but I very rarely do that if I can
avoid it - even my 2 best fast lenses - the 50mm f1.4 and 135mm
f2.0 produce better results when stopped down a bit to f2.8 or so.
That's due to the optics, not the EOS AF system. Those few times
when I have shot wide-open I have shot extra frames, fully
expecting that the results could be less accurate than under more
normal circumstances - the extra frames always seem to do the trick
for me.

I do find your attempts to quantify focussing issues at extreme
settings interesting and valuable, but not really all that relevant
in an everyday shooting kind of way.

Now... if someone had the time, money and dedication to compare
Nikon, Sigma, Canon, Kodak and Pentax cameras using the same
high-quality, fast, 3rd- party AF lenses... THAT would be a result
I'd be very interested in seeing.

I suspect that some if not all of those manufacturers run those
tests themselves, but they ain't sharing the results. And that
makes me wonder if the data is not so inconclusive or the results
so close that none of them have thought it worth their while to
launch an advertising campaign based on it.

I mean... don't you think that if Nikon ran extensive AF tests vs.
Canon and could prove that the Nikon DSLRs focus better, someone at
Nikon wouldn't start an ad campaign saying something like "Canon
gives you 6 blurry megapixels... we only give you 5, but they're
razor sharp?" :)
--
http://www.pbase.com/j_trujillo

Click to expand...
 
I had a D60 and upgraded to a 10D. I use the same lenses with my 10D as I did with my D60 (24-70L, 50 f/1.4, & 70-200 f/4L). I seem to have a much higher percentage of out of focus shots with the 10D than with the D60. I use the same technique shooting with each; I set the center focus point, lock focus on the key element of my subject (usually the eye) and then recompose as appropriate.

The 10D focus is much quicker and much more capable of low light focusing than the D60. It just seems to be less accurate and less consistent. The D60 was my first AF SLR. Other than the low light focus issue, I was quite happy with the D60 AF.

My 10D is currently winging its way back to Canon in Los Angeles for its second attempt to fix the AF. This time all the lenses went with it since last time Canon said the AF was working within spec.

Ira
FretNoMore said:
Disregarding the specific cases of malfunctioning cameras that need
to be calibrated by Canon, I'm getting the impression from all the
focus discussion here that some people claim the 10D has unusually
big problems. I have not experienced this myself; I have had issues
with combinations of my 10D and 3rd party lenses, something you
can't really blame Canon for though.

I'd like to know how you feel the 10D compares to other Canon
(D)SLRs, and if it's better or worse than other brand's (D)SLRs.
I'd find it a bit unfair to bash the 10D so relentlessly if it is
as good - or bad - as any other similar camera.

I find the AF technology is nothing short of magic, and if this is
the state-of-the-art then this is what we'll have to live with, and
learn how to use, at least for now. Bashing it here can't possibly
bring about better technology quicker, I'm sure Canon and the other
makers have their inventors working full speed as it is to be first
with the next generation AF.

-Anders
Click to expand...
 
Ravioli said:
First thing I did on my 10D was change it to centre point focus.
When I first got my 50E I fiddled with the eye controlled focus for
a while, but then turned it off and used centre point focus there
too.
I like to know exactly what I am focusing on. I focus and reframe
the shot if I have to.
Click to expand...
Same here.
 
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