Sony camera adding coloured circles to photos

emma_2021 · Sep 16, 2021

Hi all,

I was taking photos at home to test my new lens, the Sigma 30mm f/1.4, on my Sony A6000 last night.

I took the following photo and saw coloured circles on the LCD immediately:

To obtain this JPEG, I shot in raw, opened the raw file in Lightroom, made no changes, and simply exported a JPEG at 100%. I can see the circles on my phone screen easily at 100% brightness, just as I could see them easily on the camera's LCD at the time of capture.

Yes, I know the photo is seriously underexposed!

To make these circles easier to see on the forum, here is a crop with +2 exposure and +100 dehaze:

This appears to be an issue with Sony cameras of various models and also perhaps cameras made by other manufacturers. This issue has been discussed many times before, and the following thread is a good summary:

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

The reason I'm posting is to ask whether there is any update on this issue in 2021. Has Sony confirmed that this is a problem? How should I try to avoid this?

People usually recommend disabling Shading Compensation in-camera because otherwise the problem is worse—and Shading Compensation is even baked into the raw file—but I'm getting mixed results: sometimes it makes the issue less visible, sometimes it makes it more visible.

emma_2021 · Sep 16, 2021

Note that this problem doesn't apply to seriously underexposed photos only. People have demonstrated this issue with correctly exposed and even overexposed photos on this forum in the past.

I don't have links at hand, but if anyone wants evidence I will spend some time looking.

Doug Haag · Sep 16, 2021

emma_2021 said:
People usually recommend disabling Shading Compensation in-camera because otherwise the problem is worse—and Shading Compensation is even baked into the raw file—but I'm getting mixed results: sometimes it makes the issue less visible, sometimes it makes it more visible.

The comment that is highlighted really surprised me (and made me glad that my camera -- Nikon -- does not "bake in" similar control settings). For example, if I select a particular white balance or the D-Lighting setting, my tests confirm that the effect of these settings is not inextricably baked into the raw data.

Being unfamiliar with Sony's Shading Compensation and thinking it might be a different sort of animal, I Googled the term. The description from Sony that is linked below specifically says in the Notes section that it is not baked into the raw data,

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00018031

Of course, you can elect to have the effect applied to the converted results of the raw file if you use the Sony Image Data Converter. But that suggests that you can also elect to convert the raw file without the effect being applied. It appears to be something that is, or can be, applied to the raw data upon conversion, but is not baked in. That's how Nikon's conversion software works with respect to its various picture control settings.

Chris R-UK · Sep 16, 2021

I am not sure why you are posting on the Open Talk forum.

If this is a known problem with some Sony cameras, then I think that you best bet for getting an answer to your question is on one of the Sony forums.

Personally, I have heard of this problem with Sony before, but I don't recall anybody else reporting seeing the phenomenon on non-Sony bodies.

emma_2021 · Sep 16, 2021

Doug Haag said:
Being unfamiliar with Sony's Shading Compensation and thinking it might be a different sort of animal, I Googled the term. The description from Sony that is linked below specifically says in the Notes section that it is not baked into the raw data,

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00018031

Yes, that page is wrong. The vignetting correction, which Sony refers to as Shading Compensation, is baked into raw files:

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

I've tested this myself on my A6000.

What's really weird is that Lightroom still applies vignetting correction by default even with Shading Compensation enabled in-camera, which leaves the corners too bright, because they've been brightened twice!

emma_2021 · Sep 16, 2021

Chris R-UK said:
I am not sure why you are posting on the Open Talk forum.

If this is a known problem with some Sony cameras, then I think that you best bet for getting an answer to your question is on one of the Sony forums.

Personally, I have heard of this problem with Sony before, but I don't recall anybody else reporting seeing the phenomenon on non-Sony bodies.

I've read reports of this happening with other manufacturers. Here's an Olympus example:

Shading compensation has been reported to create concentric coloured circles (red/green) saved to raw files on images taken with the E-M1 Mk II.

Loading…

unlockingolympus.com

SrMi · Sep 16, 2021

Doug Haag said:
emma_2021 said:

People usually recommend disabling Shading Compensation in-camera because otherwise the problem is worse—and Shading Compensation is even baked into the raw file—but I'm getting mixed results: sometimes it makes the issue less visible, sometimes it makes it more visible.

Click to expand...

The comment that is highlighted really surprised me (and made me glad that my camera -- Nikon -- does not "bake in" similar control settings). For example, if I select a particular white balance or the D-Lighting setting, my tests confirm that the effect of these settings is not inextricably baked into the raw data.

AFAIK, Active D-Lighting affects raw files (underexposure and lifting of mid-tones and shadows). Nikon has Vignette Control but it affects only JPEGs.

D Cox · Sep 16, 2021

Does this effect happen with all lenses, or is it a correction for certain Sony lenses only ?

Don Cox

emma_2021 · Sep 16, 2021

D Cox said:
Does this effect happen with all lenses, or is it a correction for certain Sony lenses only ?

I've only tried to reproduce this on two lenses, the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 and the Sony 50mm f/1.8 OSS, and it's easy to reproduce this on both. Others have reported that this happens on many lenses, but they say that it stops happening when they put tape over the lens contacts. This problem seems to be a result of the body attempting to correct for lens vignetting of known lenses, and this "correction" is baked into Sony raw files whether or not Shading Compensation is enabled.

I haven't taken the Sigma lens out yet, but I've seen these coloured circles in real photos taken with the Sony lens.

Here's an example:

See the weird blue-green under the bus on the left? That's this issue. Note that I made no changes to the above file. I just imported the raw file into Lightroom and immediately exported a JPEG.

In fact, these weird colours are all over the photo, as you can see after pushing exposure to +5:

Yes, pushing to +5 is extreme. I did that purely to demonstrate that the weird colour in the unedited photo is the issue this thread is about.

And the original photo is not underexposed, not even slightly. The exposure is exactly as I had intended. The camera should be able to support this normal use case without adding weird colours.

emma_2021 · Sep 16, 2021

emma_2021 said:
In fact, these weird colours are all over the photo, as you can see after pushing exposure to +5:

By the way, does anyone know what the horizontal lines are at the top of this +5 photo? They don't appear to be the well-known PDAF sensor-striping issue (which I can also reproduce easily, even without the sun in the shot) because with that issue in portrait orientation the lines would be vertical, not horizontal. Though, having said that, in the 36MB file Lightroom created they do look like a grid of both horizontal and vertical lines. I guess a sensor artifact?

spider-mario · Sep 16, 2021

emma_2021 said:
By the way, does anyone know what the horizontal lines are at the top of this +5 photo? They don't appear to be the well-known PDAF sensor-striping issue (which I can also reproduce easily, even without the sun in the shot) because with that issue in portrait orientation the lines would be vertical, not horizontal. Though, having said that, in the 36MB file Lightroom created they do look like a grid of both horizontal and vertical lines. I guess a sensor artifact?

Read noise looks a bit like that at base ISO on my Canon G1 X III. It gets better at higher ISO settings.

emma_2021 · Sep 16, 2021

spider-mario said:
emma_2021 said:

By the way, does anyone know what the horizontal lines are at the top of this +5 photo? They don't appear to be the well-known PDAF sensor-striping issue (which I can also reproduce easily, even without the sun in the shot) because with that issue in portrait orientation the lines would be vertical, not horizontal. Though, having said that, in the 36MB file Lightroom created they do look like a grid of both horizontal and vertical lines. I guess a sensor artifact?

Click to expand...

Read noise looks a bit like that at base ISO on my Canon G1 X III. It gets better at higher ISO settings.

That makes sense. Thank you!

emma_2021 · Sep 16, 2021

emma_2021 said:
People usually recommend disabling Shading Compensation in-camera because otherwise the problem is worse—and Shading Compensation is even baked into the raw file—but I'm getting mixed results: sometimes it makes the issue less visible, sometimes it makes it more visible.

Okay, I take this back. I've done more testing tonight and found that it is better (I think much better) to disable Shading Compensation. It doesn't get rid of this problem entirely, but it does reduce the severity of it.

And, as mentioned above, this does apply to shooting in raw! The camera changes the raw file based on this setting.

Joe Bagadonuts · Sep 16, 2021

emma_2021 said:
emma_2021 said:

People usually recommend disabling Shading Compensation in-camera because otherwise the problem is worse—and Shading Compensation is even baked into the raw file—but I'm getting mixed results: sometimes it makes the issue less visible, sometimes it makes it more visible.

Click to expand...

Okay, I take this back. I've done more testing tonight and found that it is better (I think much better) to disable Shading Compensation. It doesn't get rid of this problem entirely, but it does reduce the severity of it.

And, as mentioned above, this does apply to shooting in raw! The camera changes the raw file based on this setting.

I am upping the shading compensation next time I shoot rainbows.

Chris R-UK · Sep 16, 2021

emma_2021 said:
Chris R-UK said:

I am not sure why you are posting on the Open Talk forum.

If this is a known problem with some Sony cameras, then I think that you best bet for getting an answer to your question is on one of the Sony forums.

Personally, I have heard of this problem with Sony before, but I don't recall anybody else reporting seeing the phenomenon on non-Sony bodies.

Click to expand...

I've read reports of this happening with other manufacturers. Here's an Olympus example:

Shading compensation has been reported to create concentric coloured circles (red/green) saved to raw files on images taken with the E-M1 Mk II.

https://unlockingolympus.com/2019/03/shading-compensation-in-camera/

But there is a simple fix for the Olympus problem - don't turn shading compensation on. So it isn't a practical issue which is why it doesn't get discussed on the M4/3 forum any more.

Is there are such fix for Sony bodies?

emma_2021 · Sep 16, 2021

Chris R-UK said:
But there is a simple fix for the Olympus problem - don't turn shading compensation on. So it isn't a practical issue which is why it doesn't get discussed on the M4/3 forum any more.

Is there are such fix for Sony bodies?

No, I don't believe so. Perhaps I should have posted in the Sony forum, but I guess it's too late now. I am surprised Sony hasn't addressed this issue. From what I read even the Sony A7R IV has this problem, and that costs thousands. My A6000 was only £500, and even I am annoyed by this.

Bob A L · Sep 16, 2021

Anybody else have a problem seeing what the OP is trying to show us?

emma_2021 · Sep 16, 2021

Bob A L said:
Anybody else have a problem seeing what the OP is trying to show us?

This is a good summary of the issue:

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

Bob A L · Sep 16, 2021

Thank you - I at least now know what you are referencing, but hate to admit that I did not see it until I saw this. Not strongly noticeable to me, but have cataracts that affect color perception, so that may be why it isn''t really jumping out at me.

Travis Nicky Bombastus · Sep 16, 2021

Emma, thanks for raising awareness of this issue.

It was quite tedious wading through the volumes of apologia amidst a few nuggets of wisdom, but from what I've read in your links (thanks for taking the time to compile them), Jim Kasson noted that some of these changes--seemingly associated with lens corrections--are baked into the RAW file, leading to "radial color shifts". He wrote that in 2019.

Who knows if anything's changed? Some companies (and users) find it more convenient to sleep on issues and hope they'll just go away.

--
On weakness: “Great occasions do not make heroes or cowards; they simply unveil them to the eyes of men."

Sony camera adding coloured circles to photos

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