artificial "BOKEH" creation

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EXPOSURE X6 has a specific option for creating "BOKEH" (from a sharp image).

I have asked that same question here before and one user felt that EXPOSURE X4 did not offer equal color fidelity/saturation as available on other software ...

So my question is if any other software offers an equal/better/faster "bokeh" option -- and/or if EXPOSURE X6 may now have better color output ???

I also want to do HDR and "STACKING" (just saw a post where SilkyPix did amazing), but would be nice to be able to get only a single software to do it all.

Under the topic Stroboscopic Motion: https://silkypix.isl.co.jp/en/how-to/function/compositing-function/
 
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What do you expect? The software can't determine how far away certain elements are and thus can only do a simple "what is sharp in the image" analysis and for the rest guesstimate what the distance could be depending on wavelet analysis. This will always look awfully artificial no matter how hard the AI tries.
 
This thread is going at the same time: Bokeh AI a disapointment: Retouching Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

He is talking about the Bokeh AI feature in Luminar software.
True, but what I think I derived from that thread is that is a version "1" and seemed to be definitely unacceptable.

So was indeed wondering how it may compare w/ EXPOSURE (which is now at version "6") ???

I realize nothing will be identical to true/natural "bokeh", not sure if it really needs to be to serve the purpose of isolating a (sharp) subject.

But I can also see advantages of artificial creation if it can be selective and controllable.
 
This thread is going at the same time: Bokeh AI a disapointment: Retouching Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

He is talking about the Bokeh AI feature in Luminar software.
True, but what I think I derived from that thread is that is a version "1" and seemed to be definitely unacceptable.

So was indeed wondering how it may compare w/ EXPOSURE (which is now at version "6") ???

I realize nothing will be identical to true/natural "bokeh", not sure if it really needs to be to serve the purpose of isolating a (sharp) subject.

But I can also see advantages of artificial creation if it can be selective and controllable.
I have Luminar AI and used the Portrait Bokeh AI function on a few images. I actually think the masking is quite good at determining humans. The problem is that the feature only supports human with detected faces, and software bokeh always looks artificial (it really is).

You may have a trial on Luminar AI and determine whether it suits your need. But I would like to note that Luminar AI is not exactly good code, and runs VERY slowly.
 
This thread is going at the same time: Bokeh AI a disapointment: Retouching Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

He is talking about the Bokeh AI feature in Luminar software.
True, but what I think I derived from that thread is that is a version "1" and seemed to be definitely unacceptable.

So was indeed wondering how it may compare w/ EXPOSURE (which is now at version "6") ???
If you look only at the Bokeh function then Exposure is on par with Luminar in this regard. Luminar has been around for quite some time but deteriorated massively with ever more vital functions replaced by AI functions that either work half baked or not at all...
I realize nothing will be identical to true/natural "bokeh", not sure if it really needs to be to serve the purpose of isolating a (sharp) subject.

But I can also see advantages of artificial creation if it can be selective and controllable.
The only software that can do a decent job are those that is coupled with devices that deliver proper depth information.
 
What do you expect? The software can't determine how far away certain elements are and thus can only do a simple "what is sharp in the image" analysis and for the rest guesstimate what the distance could be depending on wavelet analysis. This will always look awfully artificial no matter how hard the AI tries.
Exactly! And any photographer-brain should be better quality than AI, although perhaps slower :-)

Piximperfect has an instruction video. You need to decide yourself what is subject and/or focal plane and what is foreground and background. In one video some time back he simply shaded areas with tones of grey according to their distance from the focal plane and used that as a mask to apply a uniform gauss filter selectively on the photo. Apparently Adobe has come up with an additional tool, that he explores in the tutorial.
 
What do you expect? The software can't determine how far away certain elements are and thus can only do a simple "what is sharp in the image" analysis and for the rest guesstimate what the distance could be depending on wavelet analysis. This will always look awfully artificial no matter how hard the AI tries.
Exactly! And any photographer-brain should be better quality than AI, although perhaps slower :-)

Piximperfect has an instruction video. You need to decide yourself what is subject and/or focal plane and what is foreground and background. In one video some time back he simply shaded areas with tones of grey according to their distance from the focal plane and used that as a mask to apply a uniform gauss filter selectively on the photo. Apparently Adobe has come up with an additional tool, thathe explores in the tutorial.
I suggest it does not need to be distance-graduated if the objective is to isolate-the-subject.

I suggest it does not need to look like "real" (bokeh) to actually better serve the purpose.
 
This thread is going at the same time: Bokeh AI a disapointment: Retouching Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

He is talking about the Bokeh AI feature in Luminar software.
True, but what I think I derived from that thread is that is a version "1" and seemed to be definitely unacceptable.

So was indeed wondering how it may compare w/ EXPOSURE (which is now at version "6") ???
If you look only at the Bokeh function then Exposure is on par with Luminar in this regard. Luminar has been around for quite some time but deteriorated massively with ever more vital functions replaced by AI functions that either work half baked or not at all...
I realize nothing will be identical to true/natural "bokeh", not sure if it really needs to be to serve the purpose of isolating a (sharp) subject.

But I can also see advantages of artificial creation if it can be selective and controllable.
The only software that can do a decent job are those that is coupled with devices that deliver proper depth information.
Why do you need depth (information) if the purpose is to "isolate" the subject ???

There could be something distracting at the same distance-plane that is best blurred.

The "purest" attitude may not always be best.
 
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What do you expect? The software can't determine how far away certain elements are and thus can only do a simple "what is sharp in the image" analysis and for the rest guesstimate what the distance could be depending on wavelet analysis. This will always look awfully artificial no matter how hard the AI tries.
Exactly! And any photographer-brain should be better quality than AI, although perhaps slower :-)

Piximperfect has an instruction video. You need to decide yourself what is subject and/or focal plane and what is foreground and background. In one video some time back he simply shaded areas with tones of grey according to their distance from the focal plane and used that as a mask to apply a uniform gauss filter selectively on the photo. Apparently Adobe has come up with an additional tool, thathe explores in the tutorial.
I suggest it does not need to be distance-graduated if the objective is to isolate-the-subject.

I suggest it does not need to look like "real" (bokeh) to actually better serve the purpose.
Piximperfect allows us to have our own preferences, so in your case you just need to see less than half his video, or even less. The main problem is subject isolation and he has a wonderful workaround for isolating the hair of a subject from the background, which can be a daunting and time-consuming process except for bald people or people with "flat" hair in various configurations :-)

I just love bokeh with near and far light sources giving a semblance of depth behind the subject. I am not aiming for a 2-dimensional background.
 
This thread is going at the same time: Bokeh AI a disapointment: Retouching Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

He is talking about the Bokeh AI feature in Luminar software.
True, but what I think I derived from that thread is that is a version "1" and seemed to be definitely unacceptable.

So was indeed wondering how it may compare w/ EXPOSURE (which is now at version "6") ???
If you look only at the Bokeh function then Exposure is on par with Luminar in this regard. Luminar has been around for quite some time but deteriorated massively with ever more vital functions replaced by AI functions that either work half baked or not at all...
I realize nothing will be identical to true/natural "bokeh", not sure if it really needs to be to serve the purpose of isolating a (sharp) subject.

But I can also see advantages of artificial creation if it can be selective and controllable.
The only software that can do a decent job are those that is coupled with devices that deliver proper depth information.
Why do you need depth (information) if the purpose is to "isolate" the subject ???
It depends whether you want to emulate a real lens with shallow field of view and beautiful bokeh or not. You are the master of your images and can do as you please.
There could be something distracting at the same distance-plane that is best blurred.
That is up to you to decide. I usually get rid of distracting stuff around the edges of images very fast using the content-aware heal brush or cloning or the edit/content aware fill menu item in PS
The "purest" attitude may not always be best.
Either it rains or it does not rain. Cannot argue with that can we?
 
This thread is going at the same time: Bokeh AI a disapointment: Retouching Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

He is talking about the Bokeh AI feature in Luminar software.
True, but what I think I derived from that thread is that is a version "1" and seemed to be definitely unacceptable.

So was indeed wondering how it may compare w/ EXPOSURE (which is now at version "6") ???
If you look only at the Bokeh function then Exposure is on par with Luminar in this regard. Luminar has been around for quite some time but deteriorated massively with ever more vital functions replaced by AI functions that either work half baked or not at all...
I realize nothing will be identical to true/natural "bokeh", not sure if it really needs to be to serve the purpose of isolating a (sharp) subject.

But I can also see advantages of artificial creation if it can be selective and controllable.
The only software that can do a decent job are those that is coupled with devices that deliver proper depth information.
Why do you need depth (information) if the purpose is to "isolate" the subject ???
It depends whether you want to emulate a real lens with shallow field of view and beautiful bokeh or not. You are the master of your images and can do as you please.
There could be something distracting at the same distance-plane that is best blurred.
That is up to you to decide. I usually get rid of distracting stuff around the edges of images very fast using the content-aware heal brush or cloning or the edit/content aware fill menu item in PS
The "purest" attitude may not always be best.
Either it rains or it does not rain. Cannot argue with that can we?
I am not trying to argue against (real) lens-bokeh, (and its "natural" look).

I am mostly looking for the (best) alternative for small-sensor (bridge) cameras w/ inherently wider DOF.

I suggest their wider DOF is often an advantage for general/travel ... but also don't deny the narrow-DOF of FF can also be an advantage -- but also a DIS-advantage when they NEED wider DOF.

An acceptable PP-DOF solution could give an overall (DOF) advantage to smaller sensors since they have a (selectable/controllable) option.

Again ... I am not arguing against a "real" look, only that it may not always be apparent to other non-photographers.
 
This thread is going at the same time: Bokeh AI a disapointment: Retouching Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

He is talking about the Bokeh AI feature in Luminar software.
True, but what I think I derived from that thread is that is a version "1" and seemed to be definitely unacceptable.

So was indeed wondering how it may compare w/ EXPOSURE (which is now at version "6") ???
If you look only at the Bokeh function then Exposure is on par with Luminar in this regard. Luminar has been around for quite some time but deteriorated massively with ever more vital functions replaced by AI functions that either work half baked or not at all...
I realize nothing will be identical to true/natural "bokeh", not sure if it really needs to be to serve the purpose of isolating a (sharp) subject.

But I can also see advantages of artificial creation if it can be selective and controllable.
The only software that can do a decent job are those that is coupled with devices that deliver proper depth information.
Why do you need depth (information) if the purpose is to "isolate" the subject ???
It depends whether you want to emulate a real lens with shallow field of view and beautiful bokeh or not. You are the master of your images and can do as you please.
There could be something distracting at the same distance-plane that is best blurred.
That is up to you to decide. I usually get rid of distracting stuff around the edges of images very fast using the content-aware heal brush or cloning or the edit/content aware fill menu item in PS
The "purest" attitude may not always be best.
Either it rains or it does not rain. Cannot argue with that can we?
I am not trying to argue against (real) lens-bokeh, (and its "natural" look).

I am mostly looking for the (best) alternative for small-sensor (bridge) cameras w/ inherently wider DOF.

I suggest their wider DOF is often an advantage for general/travel ...
For general travel I need my wife to be separated from the background - hence around 50mm for APS-C or 70mm + for FF is ideal.
but also don't deny the narrow-DOF of FF can also be an advantage -- but also a DIS-advantage when they NEED wider DOF.
When FF'ers really NEED wider DOF and insist - then they use focus stacking, e.g. for macro where a smaller chip format has the advantage that the subject has to be magnified less to fill the frame than with larger formats and hence the larger DOF.

For a landscape with a field of flowers in the foreground and forest and mountains in the middle and background the best compromise would be to leave the mountains slightly out of focus and the rest sharp to enhance the feeling of depth in the image. With smaller formats like smart phones there is no choice. Everything is just sharp. So the market has demanded sharp portraits with a fuzzy background and the companies have delivered a computational solution to that demand.

What I am sying: most small-format users, enough to be an important market, demand a background OOF to their portraits.

If FF'ers like me NEED larger DOF we use a wide angle or super wide angle and can get everything in focus from 0,5 or 2 m to infinity at F11 depending on how wide we go. At F11 we will have acceptable diffraction softening.

Alternatively we focus stack a few images with longer focals.
An acceptable PP-DOF solution could give an overall (DOF) advantage to smaller sensors since they have a (selectable/controllable) option.
Well, they can only select to have everything in focus, but computational photography comes to the rescue here.
Again ... I am not arguing against a "real" look, only that it may not always be apparent to other non-photographers.
...and then again: I am not a pro, so I don't have to sell my images, and I am not depending on the judgement of others. It is pure pleasure and I am privileged to be able to do as I please and try to improve my "style" in my own eyes. If I get the time I will try some of the PIXIMPERFECT guy's tips, although they would require me to learn more PS than I know now, for sure.

So, if you have 2 cameras costing the same and weighing the same are you going to choose the camera that CANNOT make the background of portraits of your loved ones blurry?

Aha. So it all boils down to cost and weight: the higher cost will give you more flexibility at a larger weight and hence a more limited clientele. The compact camera segment is dying out killed by smartphones. FF and APS-C is getting more affordable and eating the compact camera market from the other side. Left is cameras for drones and action like GoPro and the like.
 
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Check out Topaz "Lens Effects".
I can't find it for download or for sale at Topaz.
It used to be a stand alone but I think they now bundle all their filters it’s been a few years since I checked it out
You can still get it here, but only register if you allready have a regcode.

It's an older plug-in by Topaz Labs and not for sale anymore.


Scroll down and you'll see a list of legacy plug-ins ready for download, MAC and PC.
 
This thread is going at the same time: Bokeh AI a disapointment: Retouching Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

He is talking about the Bokeh AI feature in Luminar software.
True, but what I think I derived from that thread is that is a version "1" and seemed to be definitely unacceptable.

So was indeed wondering how it may compare w/ EXPOSURE (which is now at version "6") ???
If you look only at the Bokeh function then Exposure is on par with Luminar in this regard. Luminar has been around for quite some time but deteriorated massively with ever more vital functions replaced by AI functions that either work half baked or not at all...
I realize nothing will be identical to true/natural "bokeh", not sure if it really needs to be to serve the purpose of isolating a (sharp) subject.

But I can also see advantages of artificial creation if it can be selective and controllable.
The only software that can do a decent job are those that is coupled with devices that deliver proper depth information.
Why do you need depth (information) if the purpose is to "isolate" the subject ???
It depends whether you want to emulate a real lens with shallow field of view and beautiful bokeh or not. You are the master of your images and can do as you please.
There could be something distracting at the same distance-plane that is best blurred.
That is up to you to decide. I usually get rid of distracting stuff around the edges of images very fast using the content-aware heal brush or cloning or the edit/content aware fill menu item in PS
The "purest" attitude may not always be best.
Either it rains or it does not rain. Cannot argue with that can we?
I am not trying to argue against (real) lens-bokeh, (and its "natural" look).

I am mostly looking for the (best) alternative for small-sensor (bridge) cameras w/ inherently wider DOF.

I suggest their wider DOF is often an advantage for general/travel ...
For general travel I need my wife to be separated from the background - hence around 50mm for APS-C or 70mm + for FF is ideal.
So you want a photo of your wife, with a BLURRY Taj Mahal, Eiffel Tower, Grand Canyon, etc., behind her ???
but also don't deny the narrow-DOF of FF can also be an advantage -- but also a DIS-advantage when they NEED wider DOF.
When FF'ers really NEED wider DOF and insist - then they use focus stacking,
So you're going to use Focus-Stacking w/ a photo of your (sharp) wife with the ThunderBirds flying behind her ???
For a landscape with a field of flowers in the foreground and forest and mountains in the middle and background the best compromise would be to leave the mountains slightly out of focus and the rest sharp to enhance the feeling of depth in the image.
I agree that is often desirable, but NOT if you are at the Grand Tetons where the MOUNTAINS are the very REASON for being there, (or Taj Mahal, Effel Tower, or Grand Canyon).
With smaller formats like smart phones (AND BRIDGE CAMERAS) there is no choice. Everything is just sharp. So the market has demanded sharp portraits with a fuzzy background and the companies have delivered a computational solution to that demand.

What I am sying: most small-format users, enough to be an important market, demand a background OOF to their portraits.
Exactly WHY I am looking for the (best) computational solution for conventional cameras.
If FF'ers like me NEED larger DOF we use a wide angle or super wide angle and can get everything in focus from 0,5 or 2 m to infinity at F11 depending on how wide we go. At F11 we will have acceptable diffraction softening.
Again WHY a computational solution may even be of benefit for FF users, (there is still only "one" specific distance that is at "sharpest" focus).
Alternatively we focus stack a few images with longer focals.
NOT always practical or possible.
An acceptable PP-DOF solution could give an overall (DOF) advantage to smaller sensors since they have a (selectable/controllable) option.
Well, they can only select to have everything in focus, but computational photography comes to the rescue here.
Exactly ...
Again ... I am not arguing against a "real" look, only that it may not always be apparent to other non-photographers.
...and then again: I am not a pro, so I don't have to sell my images, and I am not depending on the judgement of others. It is pure pleasure and I am privileged to be able to do as I please and try to improve my "style" in my own eyes. If I get the time I will try some of the PIXIMPERFECT guy's tips, although they would require me to learn more PS than I know now, for sure.

So, if you have 2 cameras costing the same and weighing the same are you going to choose the camera that CANNOT make the background of portraits of your loved ones blurry?
I would look at it the other way ... one option is a camera that cannot KEEP BOTH fore-background sharp, vs one that can (keep everything sharp), but with (computational) PP as an option for (selectively and controllably) blurring background (or even foreground).
 

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