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What do you think about shooting only B&W ?
- Thread starter KAAMBIC
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LeicaEye
Forum Pro
Very True- I would imagine with b&w film we all shot less and when we did it was a more thoughtful process.. Digital offers fantastic capabilities plus allows shoot/Delete with ease.. Shooting b&w with digital is different and we can experiment with ease.. L
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marcio_napoli
Senior Member
Thanks Aaron, I didn't mean to downplay BW, it's super classy and awesome.
I just honestly thinks it allows so much more room, both in the actual selection of subjects as well as in post, that if all of us only had BW to shoot, we would actually think we're all better photographers.
Think of a parallel universe. Suddenly there's a rule that says BW only for now on.
Then all of us would immediately upgrade as photographers overnight, just because the tools are there for better images.
Shoot something that looks dramatic in color. It looks more dramatic in BW.
Shoot an overcast cloudy sky in color. Boring. Convert it to BW with the right tonal play, it looks amazing.
Rusty things. Fishermen boats. Tired faces with plenty of stories to tell.
All becomes more in BW.
Landscapes: I can push lighting fine tuning to places in BW (in post), that I simply can't with color, due to destroying the file with weird artfacts.
Etc.
BW is awesome, but in my honest (and personal) opinion, easier.
Best regards,
Well, I wasn't asking you, dear Syber; I was responding to what the OP said, and I think s/he will probably get what I meant. But it is worth delving deeper.
I think in a B&W picture, elements like line, form, texture, and contrast play a much more important role, whereas with color (particularly the color photos I like) it's the colors themselves that really often make the composition. Here are a few images I shot primarily for their colors -- but when you convert them to B&W (I suppose I should say grayscale), I think they really lose their impact. To my eye, they just don't work as B&W photos.
It's a little hard to work it the other way, since I don't have many B&W compositions I shot in color, but here's one I chose for its contrasts. I made a (very lame, sorry) attempt to colorize it, and I don't think it would work as well as a color photo -- as color, it's more of a snapshot.
Of course there are some pics that work well either way -- here's one I shot on Velvia slide film, which I like for its bright colors, and because of the contrast in textures between metal and wood, hub and spokes, and the blurry background, I think it still works when converted to B&W.
The B&W version has an advantage -- I think removing the blue from the upper-left helps the photo, but I still think the photo has more impact in color.
I can think of a shot I passed on last week -- a cut-down tree trunk with some interesting patterns. But it would have been shot against a background of trees, and on B&W film the texture of the bark would not have stood out enough from the texture of the leaves, whether blurred or in focus. I passed on the shot. (Can't remember why I didn't shoot it in color.)
So, anyway, I don't think I'd call it a rule, but certainly a guideline. And I think Marco has a point that often making a boring color photo into B&W can add some interest. But I also maintain that what makes a B&W photo look good is different from what makes a color photo look good. There is some overlap, of course, but I think the composition process is different for the two.
Aaron
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My Flickr page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/aarongold/
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Of course, but even before I raise the camera to my eye (and after, as I frame the shot), I'm thinking about what it will look like in B&W. (I've been at this long enough to have a pretty good idea of how the colors will render in grayscale.)
Aaron
yardcoyote
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I wouldn't want to do it full time, but I often do it for a day or a week. I would really like to own a monochrome camera, not as an only camera, but to keep me honest on black and white days.
New Day Rising
Veteran Member
Thanks Aaron. I think these are excellent examples and thoughts that echo mine.
I go through little periods of shooting black and white almost exclusively. Using mirrorless does make it quite a different experience, being able to compose in black and white through the viewfinder. I do find I start seeing the world differently, looking for contrasts in both tone and shape. If I shoot this way in RAW it gives me the option of producing colour output and just occasionally the colour version ends up being better.
Similar to another poster, I sometimes shoot in brackets of colour and black and white. Fujifilm has a setting where you can shoot a bracket of three different film simulations. This can be fun.
One other time having black and white conversion as an option is for concerts where sometimes the stage lighting is not the most flattering look (this black and white is obviously not the same image, but the next in the sequence and is a bit rough as there was not a lot of exposure to work with).
I can see how some consider black and white cheating, but I think you need a good base image to turn it into a good black and white image. That doesn't necessarily mean the colour image has to be good or effective in itself - Marco has demonstrated this - but it has to have the right elements to lend itself to an effective conversion (as you have demonstrated). If one is going to consider it cheating, then by the same token any image that is not a direct representation of (perceived) reality is cheating.
In the end I really like having the option to use black and white or colour (or, I guess, both at once but I have a general dislike for selective colour). My photographic hobby began well before digital and with cheap Instamatic cameras. Each advancement in technology as I acquired better gear and then autofocus and built-in motor drives and automatic exposure and programs all the way through to digital and all its tricks - has given me more options. I am happy to embrace them.
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All lies and jests; Still a man hears what he wants to hear; And disregards the rest
I go through little periods of shooting black and white almost exclusively. Using mirrorless does make it quite a different experience, being able to compose in black and white through the viewfinder. I do find I start seeing the world differently, looking for contrasts in both tone and shape. If I shoot this way in RAW it gives me the option of producing colour output and just occasionally the colour version ends up being better.
Similar to another poster, I sometimes shoot in brackets of colour and black and white. Fujifilm has a setting where you can shoot a bracket of three different film simulations. This can be fun.
One other time having black and white conversion as an option is for concerts where sometimes the stage lighting is not the most flattering look (this black and white is obviously not the same image, but the next in the sequence and is a bit rough as there was not a lot of exposure to work with).
I can see how some consider black and white cheating, but I think you need a good base image to turn it into a good black and white image. That doesn't necessarily mean the colour image has to be good or effective in itself - Marco has demonstrated this - but it has to have the right elements to lend itself to an effective conversion (as you have demonstrated). If one is going to consider it cheating, then by the same token any image that is not a direct representation of (perceived) reality is cheating.
In the end I really like having the option to use black and white or colour (or, I guess, both at once but I have a general dislike for selective colour). My photographic hobby began well before digital and with cheap Instamatic cameras. Each advancement in technology as I acquired better gear and then autofocus and built-in motor drives and automatic exposure and programs all the way through to digital and all its tricks - has given me more options. I am happy to embrace them.
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All lies and jests; Still a man hears what he wants to hear; And disregards the rest
tony field
Forum Pro
I always shoot Raw and sometimes set the camera to shoot black and white. This allows me to preview the black and white image on the back of the screen to check for black-and-white composition and general tonality. This only affects the in camera jpg. When I edit the image after copying to the computer the initial display appears to be black and white however since the raw image is full Raw I can then conveniently work in black and white or in colour. At least that is how my cameras work
This works particularly well when shooting portraits. you can judge the overall Shadow tone and shading tone relationship quickly and still have the option working in colour if you wish
--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
This works particularly well when shooting portraits. you can judge the overall Shadow tone and shading tone relationship quickly and still have the option working in colour if you wish
--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
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sybersitizen
Forum Pro
Sure, I think several people here might be interested ... which is why I asked.
I certainly understand how B&W differs from color in several ways, and that the choice can be used effectively to convey very different moods ... but you haven't shown any examples of how you would modify composition to better accommodate those differences. All the pairs have identical composition.I think in a B&W picture, elements like line, form, texture, and contrast play a much more important role, whereas with color (particularly the color photos I like) it's the colors themselves that really often make the composition. Here are a few images I shot primarily for their colors -- but when you convert them to B&W (I suppose I should say grayscale), I think they really lose their impact. To my eye, they just don't work as B&W photos.
It's a little hard to work it the other way, since I don't have many B&W compositions I shot in color, but here's one I chose for its contrasts. I made a (very lame, sorry) attempt to colorize it, and I don't think it would work as well as a color photo -- as color, it's more of a snapshot.
Of course there are some pics that work well either way -- here's one I shot on Velvia slide film, which I like for its bright colors, and because of the contrast in textures between metal and wood, hub and spokes, and the blurry background, I think it still works when converted to B&W.
The B&W version has an advantage -- I think removing the blue from the upper-left helps the photo, but I still think the photo has more impact in color.
I can think of a shot I passed on last week -- a cut-down tree trunk with some interesting patterns. But it would have been shot against a background of trees, and on B&W film the texture of the bark would not have stood out enough from the texture of the leaves, whether blurred or in focus. I passed on the shot. (Can't remember why I didn't shoot it in color.)
So, anyway, I don't think I'd call it a rule, but certainly a guideline. And I think Marco has a point that often making a boring color photo into B&W can add some interest. But I also maintain that what makes a B&W photo look good is different from what makes a color photo look good. There is some overlap, of course, but I think the composition process is different for the two.
As I said, I can imagine a small percentage of scenes where color plays a crucial role if the scene is composed a certain way ... but if it's instead shot in B&W, a better B&W result could be obtained with a different composition (and, conversely, applying that 'ideal' B&W composition to the color version would no longer produce an 'ideal' color version.
I can imagine that, but I don't recall ever having seen such a thing demonstrated in my roughly 50 years of photography experience.
For example, I prefer this composition for your first pair, and I think it works equally well for both, not needing special consideration for one or the other (although I prefer the mood of the color version):
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I meant that as a joke, but it reads like snark, and I apologize. Thanks for being more civil than I was.
Well, I guess the best way to answer is to say that I would not have composed them at all, at least not as black and white photographs. To me, for a variety of reasons, they just don't work in black and white. So I would not change the composition; I'd shoot something else.
Yes, I agree with that 100%.
Hmmm. Well, last week I shot some black and white photos in a location I have previously shot in color (Mt. Hope Cemetary in Rochester, NY). I don't think I'll be able to develop them for a while. But I don't know if that would make the point, because even though he's shot in the same basic locations, I chose completely different Framing and elements for the different media.
I like the composition, but I don't think it fixes the problem with the black and white photo. Your version of the photo, to me, is good in color, and while it's certainly simplifies the variety of textures in black and white, which partially solves the problem, I still think it's weak in grayscale. I don't know that it's possible to make a good black-and-white photograph out of that, unless you really changed the color or shading of some of the elements. Do you think that qualifies it as an example of a composition that works in color but not in black and white?
Aaron
sybersitizen
Forum Pro
I don't think so either. The issue for me remains tonality.I meant that as a joke, but it reads like snark, and I apologize. Thanks for being more civil than I was.
Well, I guess the best way to answer is to say that I would not have composed them at all, at least not as black and white photographs. To me, for a variety of reasons, they just don't work in black and white. So I would not change the composition; I'd shoot something else.
Yes, I agree with that 100%.
Hmmm. Well, last week I shot some black and white photos in a location I have previously shot in color (Mt. Hope Cemetary in Rochester, NY). I don't think I'll be able to develop them for a while. But I don't know if that would make the point, because even though he's shot in the same basic locations, I chose completely different Framing and elements for the different media.
I like the composition, but I don't think it fixes the problem with the black and white photo.
Well, I don't have any objection to selectively changing the tonality of pieces of a B&W scene in order to 'improve' it. I've done it many times, and might be able to do it here. I guess it comes down to how far I want to take the necessary work to see how it ends up. In this case, I don't want to take it very far.
But here's a go that could be a step in the right direction:
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K
Kaspah
Guest
I always shoot colour and then convert to B&W in post if I need to.
Looking at a scene I can visualise pretty closely what it could like in B&W.
Converting to B&W using some thing like Photoshop Elements with the Elements+ plug-in gives me near enough to total control on how light or dark I want colours to look in B&W.
For example, you can make a clear blue sky any shade from black to white to suit the particular scene.
And with some dodge and burn and other edits to add some light, shade and contrast it is much easier to make a B&W really pop.
Looking at a scene I can visualise pretty closely what it could like in B&W.
Converting to B&W using some thing like Photoshop Elements with the Elements+ plug-in gives me near enough to total control on how light or dark I want colours to look in B&W.
For example, you can make a clear blue sky any shade from black to white to suit the particular scene.
And with some dodge and burn and other edits to add some light, shade and contrast it is much easier to make a B&W really pop.
Smaug01
Veteran Member
There are some subjects that really just seem to call for color. Flowers come to mind. (there are good B&W flower shots, but not as many)
I generally prefer people pictures to be in B&W, as the lack of color doesn't distract the viewer: their eyes go directly to the subject, not "Woo, look at those pretty green trees behind her!" The shots in B&W require more care. We have to visualize what it will look like in B&W. Look for light, shadow, contrast... everything but color. It takes practice.
Some scenes that I want to record, for example walking in the woods with no dramatic light, look better in color. Everything is just a mid gray and gets muddled together. It's nice to have a choice.
I generally prefer people pictures to be in B&W, as the lack of color doesn't distract the viewer: their eyes go directly to the subject, not "Woo, look at those pretty green trees behind her!" The shots in B&W require more care. We have to visualize what it will look like in B&W. Look for light, shadow, contrast... everything but color. It takes practice.
Some scenes that I want to record, for example walking in the woods with no dramatic light, look better in color. Everything is just a mid gray and gets muddled together. It's nice to have a choice.
rurikw
Senior Member
Me too mostly though I have tried putting the camera on b&w (which it interprets to mean sepia) too.
Not sure I can.
Same with my PSCS4.
In my experience (m43) there's not much room for darkening before I get banding so a CPL is indispensable.
Hmm, I think I want to try more dodge and burn (select and levels).
DenWil
Senior Member
If B&W is your schtick then that's your call. Brand identity. When the content requires color rendering you take a pass.
If your content is your creation then you create for B&W. Easy enough. If you are expected to shoot the kids birthday party well that could be cool and there will be plenty of people shooting in color for diversity.
My work- both color and B&W- is only printed on heavyweight matte paper. Been that way for decades. It's a design choice. It is not open to discussion.
If you decide to be a B&W guy there you go. Be real good.
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dw
If your content is your creation then you create for B&W. Easy enough. If you are expected to shoot the kids birthday party well that could be cool and there will be plenty of people shooting in color for diversity.
My work- both color and B&W- is only printed on heavyweight matte paper. Been that way for decades. It's a design choice. It is not open to discussion.
If you decide to be a B&W guy there you go. Be real good.
--
dw
Doing so can help you explore possibilities that you would normally not consider, simply because what you would normally do is not possible (or not "allowed").
I know it is easy to think that you don't need something like this to be creative, but I believe it is a generally accepted view that constraints encourage creativity. I would like to encourage you to try it sometimes, maybe not with B/W and color, but you can try to constrain yourself to only a specific focal length, only specific colors, only shallow DOF, or something else entirely. With a bit of luck you will experience a small revelation (it does require some patience though).
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Tamed Monkey
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That's all I shoot anymore. Sometimes, I get the feeling that I've lost my 'feel' for colour. From time to time, I'll play at taking a colour shot or two, but I can't seem to be able to figure out whether the colours are any good, or tonally correct.
The cameras I shoot with -fujis- are known to have lots of great film sims, but they're all pretty much wasted on me.
I see the image I'm shooting in B&W in the EVF; take the shot, and then process with NIK software to adjust the contrast, and maybe digitally dodge, or burn like I used to do in the darkroom eons ago.
I guess I'm a bit of an anachronism.
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