Focusing issues in studio Sony A7R III/ modeling lamp?

filipwphoto said:

Hi,

I shoot with Sony A7R III / Sony FE 85 1,8 in a studio with 1/250 f8 ISO100.

Such pictures without the flash are very dark, pretty much all black.

When I use eye auto focus the camera struggles, it keeeps focusing back and forth. Finally it finds the target and... it looks like it found it but when I view the photos on the PC they are 70% times out of focus.

Clearly it is too dark for the focus to work properly. Now the question is what can be done about it?

AF Illuminator does not work in continuous mode, and it does not work in single mode either with my current setup. I think that if there is something mounted on the camera than it goes off automatically - such as the flash trigger. Or is f8 simply to dark for it to work? Any idea how can I have it on when shooting in a studio?

If not... what then?

I turned all the lights on (regular buidling lights) and I started receiving better results, however that Introduced some unwanted light. Little but still.

I thought perhaps a sort of modeling lamp would be a solution, but that thing would have to turn itself off every time I shoot/flash. Are there products like that? I use GODOX lamps and trigger.

Or perhaps a totally different solution?

What do you think?

Click to expand...

Godox triggers have AF illuminators, have you switched it on?

I would expect that eye detection is going to need quite a bit more ambient light then most other modes. Have you tried spot focus? Pint the spot at the eye, half press the stutter release and recompose. At F/8 you should have a fair amount of lattitude.

What lights do you have?

For being able to see via the view finder, go to the camera icon sub menu, page 2, Display/Auto Review, Live view Display, and change these settings.

RE: >>

I shoot with Sony A7R III / Sony FE 85 1,8 in a studio with 1/250 f8 ISO100.

Such pictures without the flash are very dark, pretty much all black. <<

How did you decide on 1/250 f8 ISO 100?

That's wrong. Because that's wrong, your pictures are too dark.

You need to find a photography basics course.

BAK

BAK said:

RE: >>

I shoot with Sony A7R III / Sony FE 85 1,8 in a studio with 1/250 f8 ISO100.

Such pictures without the flash are very dark, pretty much all black. <<

How did you decide on 1/250 f8 ISO 100?

That's wrong. Because that's wrong, your pictures are too dark.

You need to find a photography basics course.

BAK

Click to expand...

Apparently the photographer is using flash to make the real photos.

antares103 said:

For being able to see via the view finder, go to the camera icon sub menu, page 2, Display/Auto Review, Live view Display, and change these settings.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I misread the original statement, and this is a solution to an issue different than what was described.

Ellis Vener said:

BAK said:

RE: >>

I shoot with Sony A7R III / Sony FE 85 1,8 in a studio with 1/250 f8 ISO100.

Such pictures without the flash are very dark, pretty much all black. <<

How did you decide on 1/250 f8 ISO 100?

That's wrong. Because that's wrong, your pictures are too dark.

You need to find a photography basics course.

BAK

Click to expand...

Apparently the photographer is using flash to make the real photos.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I think the OP was describing the ambient light volume and how it affects focus, rather than the exposure of the final image.

filipwphoto said:

Hi,

I shoot with Sony A7R III / Sony FE 85 1,8 in a studio with 1/250 f8 ISO100.

Such pictures without the flash are very dark, pretty much all black.

When I use eye auto focus the camera struggles, it keeeps focusing back and forth. Finally it finds the target and... it looks like it found it but when I view the photos on the PC they are 70% times out of focus.

Clearly it is too dark for the focus to work properly. Now the question is what can be done about it?

AF Illuminator does not work in continuous mode, and it does not work in single mode either with my current setup. I think that if there is something mounted on the camera than it goes off automatically - such as the flash trigger. Or is f8 simply to dark for it to work? Any idea how can I have it on when shooting in a studio?

Click to expand...

The camera is not likely focusing at f/8. It is likely open to f/1.8 when focusing, then stops down to f/8 when the shutter is tripped. However, there may be exceptions with newer cameras and extreme frame rates in continuous drive.

filipwphoto said:

If not... what then?

Click to expand...

filipwphoto said:

I turned all the lights on (regular buidling lights) and I started receiving better results, however that Introduced some unwanted light. Little but still.

I thought perhaps a sort of modeling lamp would be a solution, but that thing would have to turn itself off every time I shoot/flash. Are there products like that? I use GODOX lamps and trigger.

Click to expand...

The lights would not likely need to go off. At those settings you can get a rather bright light that would not contribute to the image. The exact brightness will vary on set up, but some studio lights have 250W lamps with no exposure contribution at f/8. Even on the one that go off, they do not do so until the shutter has opened (which is when the flash is fired), thus being lit during at least part of the exposure, anyway.

Which Godox trigger and flashes do you have?

Thanks everyone for the input and sorry for the confusion.

What I was trying to say is that the enivonment was very dark and that caused the issue with focusing. The actual photos were well exposed.

I use Godox X1T and 2x GSII Series Flash and SILLY me I have not been using them for a while and I totally forgot that they have modeling lights. However, from what I remember testing them before, I am not sure if the ambient light they provide is powerful enough to lit the scene for the autofocus to hit the target.

I had no clue the godox trigger had its own AF Illuminator. I managed to turn it but I am unsure if the light it provides will be enough also I shoot portraits vertically so again I am not sure if it would even point at the eyes. I will give it a try, combained with the modeling light the situation should improve.

Another surprise for me was that the actual Sony camera's AF Illuminator triggered when having the godox trigger mounted, it did not trigger a single time in a studio even though the auto focus struggled a lot.

Since shutter speed is not that critical using a studio strobe than I would be using 1/125 . also I use my 6D2 in live view for the studio and with a 250W modeling lamp on my Godox strobes I have plenty of light to focus. I also shoot at ISO 100. Does LV on the Canon 7D2 and 6D2 not stop down to actual exposure?

I would think LV would be like an EVF.

--
A purist at heart to protect the art

filipwphoto said:

Hi,

I shoot with Sony A7R III / Sony FE 85 1,8 in a studio with 1/250 f8 ISO100.

Such pictures without the flash are very dark, pretty much all black.

Click to expand...

So you're shooting in a location in very low light/near darkness.

filipwphoto said:

When I use eye auto focus the camera struggles, it keeeps focusing back and forth. Finally it finds the target and... it looks like it found it but when I view the photos on the PC they are 70% times out of focus.

Click to expand...

.. and your camera struggles to focus in near darkness.

filipwphoto said:

Clearly it is too dark for the focus to work properly. Now the question is what can be done about it?

Click to expand...

Turn a light on that's either dim enough and or far away enough, not to interfere with your exposure. That's it. It doesn't matter if the light is coming from a night light, modeling light from your studio strobe or from a window.

filipwphoto said:

AF Illuminator does not work in continuous mode, and it does not work in single mode either with my current setup. I think that if there is something mounted on the camera than it goes off automatically - such as the flash trigger. Or is f8 simply to dark for it to work? Any idea how can I have it on when shooting in a studio?

Click to expand...

I'd skip all of that stuff and just keep it simple by removing as many variables as possible, especially if you've a client sitting in front of you. Turn on a light, and be done with it. If you're at f/8, depending on your distance to the subject, you don't have to focus on an eye anyway.... at 10 ft. from the subject, you've a depth of field (DOF) of roughly 2ft.

filipwphoto said:

If not... what then?

I turned all the lights on (regular buidling lights) and I started receiving better results, however that Introduced some unwanted light. Little but still.

Click to expand...

Don't turn all the lights on. All you likely need is a small lamp to give the focus system just enough light to focus, but not enough light to affect exposure.

filipwphoto said:

I thought perhaps a sort of modeling lamp would be a solution, but that thing would have to turn itself off every time I shoot/flash. Are there products like that? I use GODOX lamps and trigger.

Click to expand...

Again, I'd keep it simple. Small desk lamp or a small clip-on light that you can buy at a local store; clip it close enough (anywhere that's convenient and makes sense) to give the light you need to focus and be done with it.

At times I'll use a modeling lamp from one or more strobes, but just having enough light to focus works the best in my experience unless I'm needing to see a lot of colourful iris of the eyes - where a modeling light works nicely for that purpose.

All the best with your endeavor!

Regards

--
Teila K. Day
http://teiladay.com

Thanks a lot, that should solve the problem. My strobes do have modeling lights but since I have not been using them for ages I totally forgot about them.

There is no issue with the live view, just with the focus. But that should be solved now : )

filipwphoto said:

Thanks a lot, that should solve the problem. My strobes do have modeling lights but since I have not been using them for ages I totally forgot about them.

Click to expand...

If you have or can make modeling lights that sit behind fabric and create a soft glow that would be very nice as it keeps the clients eyes from hurting, but bright enough for modern focus systems to "see" enough to focus.

Unfortunately, LED modeling lights on some of my strobes do not dim, and are too bright for my liking for still photography as modeling lights... though sometimes I will use them instead of strobes.

I prefer dimmable lights from some of our old-as-dirt Bowens Gemini strobes that provide a nice soft moonlight that I can brighten or dim. Here's an example in a strip soft box (Photoflex Half-dome 2)


Bright enough for focusing, but kind to people's eyes. Can be turned up much higher. Often I prefer even lower light (below).


Soft, like a candle in a paper bag kind of light. Excellent for slow shutter work as well.

Think about getting a dedicated low-cost strobe with a great (dimmable) non LED modeling light, so you can put it in a large soft box and cast a soft glow onto your subject without having to worry about turning the modeling light off/on during the session... you just leave it on 'till you're done shooting. That way you get a decent (but very low-cost) strobe and a great soft light (which is what you're really after) that you can use in a myriad of situations.

Put it in a relatively low cost soft box and your problem is solved. You can use a scraggly lamp like mine -- but I'll often put scraggly lamp away when shooting clients, and use several soft boxes for their nice soft glow...even if I don't use the strobes on those lights.


Don't forget DIY (do it yourself) solutions... or scraggly lamps

--
Teila K. Day

Teila Day said:

filipwphoto said:

Thanks a lot, that should solve the problem. My strobes do have modeling lights but since I have not been using them for ages I totally forgot about them.

Click to expand...

If you have or can make modeling lights that sit behind fabric and create a soft glow that would be very nice as it keeps the clients eyes from hurting, but bright enough for modern focus systems to "see" enough to focus.

Unfortunately, LED modeling lights on some of my strobes do not dim, and are too bright for my liking for still photography as modeling lights... though sometimes I will use them instead of strobes.

I prefer dimmable lights from some of our old-as-dirt Bowens Gemini strobes that provide a nice soft moonlight that I can brighten or dim. Here's an example in a strip soft box (Photoflex Half-dome 2)


Bright enough for focusing, but kind to people's eyes. Can be turned up much higher. Often I prefer even lower light (below).


Soft, like a candle in a paper bag kind of light. Excellent for slow shutter work as well.

Think about getting a dedicated low-cost strobe with a great (dimmable) non LED modeling light, so you can put it in a large soft box and cast a soft glow onto your subject without having to worry about turning the modeling light off/on during the session... you just leave it on 'till you're done shooting. That way you get a decent (but very low-cost) strobe and a great soft light (which is what you're really after) that you can use in a myriad of situations.

Click to expand...

OP is using Godox GSII strobes which have tungsten modeling lights. The brightness set manually.

Cheers, that helps a lot : )

tugwilson said:

Teila Day said:

filipwphoto said:

Thanks a lot, that should solve the problem. My strobes do have modeling lights but since I have not been using them for ages I totally forgot about them.

Click to expand...

If you have or can make modeling lights that sit behind fabric and create a soft glow that would be very nice as it keeps the clients eyes from hurting, but bright enough for modern focus systems to "see" enough to focus.

Unfortunately, LED modeling lights on some of my strobes do not dim, and are too bright for my liking for still photography as modeling lights... though sometimes I will use them instead of strobes.

I prefer dimmable lights from some of our old-as-dirt Bowens Gemini strobes that provide a nice soft moonlight that I can brighten or dim. Here's an example in a strip soft box (Photoflex Half-dome 2)


Bright enough for focusing, but kind to people's eyes. Can be turned up much higher. Often I prefer even lower light (below).


Soft, like a candle in a paper bag kind of light. Excellent for slow shutter work as well.

Think about getting a dedicated low-cost strobe with a great (dimmable) non LED modeling light, so you can put it in a large soft box and cast a soft glow onto your subject without having to worry about turning the modeling light off/on during the session... you just leave it on 'till you're done shooting. That way you get a decent (but very low-cost) strobe and a great soft light (which is what you're really after) that you can use in a myriad of situations.

Click to expand...

OP is using Godox GSII strobes which have tungsten modeling lights. The brightness set manually.

Click to expand...

That's great. Having manual control over the modeling lights is a nice and very practical feature.

--
Teila K. Day

filipwphoto said:

Hi,

I shoot with Sony A7R III / Sony FE 85 1,8 in a studio with 1/250 f8 ISO100.

Such pictures without the flash are very dark, pretty much all black.

When I use eye auto focus the camera struggles, it keeeps focusing back and forth. Finally it finds the target and... it looks like it found it but when I view the photos on the PC they are 70% times out of focus.

Clearly it is too dark for the focus to work properly. Now the question is what can be done about it?

AF Illuminator does not work in continuous mode, and it does not work in single mode either with my current setup. I think that if there is something mounted on the camera than it goes off automatically - such as the flash trigger. Or is f8 simply to dark for it to work? Any idea how can I have it on when shooting in a studio?

If not... what then?

I turned all the lights on (regular buidling lights) and I started receiving better results, however that Introduced some unwanted light. Little but still.

I thought perhaps a sort of modeling lamp would be a solution, but that thing would have to turn itself off every time I shoot/flash. Are there products like that? I use GODOX lamps and trigger.

Or perhaps a totally different solution?

What do you think?

Click to expand...

The Sony A7Riii is prone to not working great in dim studios as I have found over the years. There are a couple of settings that will help elevate some of this issue:

• AF-S may help when your subject isn't moving too much;
• Aperture Drive in AF set to Standard;
• Live View Display set to 'setting effects OFF';
• If possible, do not use an F-stop over 5.6 in dim light situations (PDAF only works to F9.0 but starts to struggle below that);
• If you are photographing persons try to have the Eye-AF not too far to the edges of your viewfinder;
• Have your modelling lights ON (as also has been suggested in previous responses);

Hope this also helps a little bit.

I'll definitely try that