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Why does my moon look so soft?

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imperial

imperial

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This is a single exposure from a7r3 70-200 gm with 2x with APS-C mode. Is this missed focus or lens?
This is a single exposure from a7r3 70-200 gm with 2x with APS-C mode. Is this missed focus or lens?



This is a stacked from 7 images but without hard editing (deep contrast) the definition seems quiet dull.
This is a stacked from 7 images but without hard editing (deep contrast) the definition seems quiet dull.

Any suggestion on making these images sharper?

Thanks
 
How did you set the focus?

How high in the sky was the moon?

Tripod or hand-held?

OS on?

Shutter delay?

David
 
imperial said:
This is a single exposure from a7r3 70-200 gm with 2x with APS-C mode. Is this missed focus or lens?
This is a single exposure from a7r3 70-200 gm with 2x with APS-C mode. Is this missed focus or lens?
Click to expand...
The 2X is going to soften your image, and so does additional cropping. (2000mm-EFL would have been better)

I would not have used f/11 (f/4 or 5.6 would have been sharper and allowed a faster Shutter-Speed).

I would have used a faster Shutter-Speed (1/1000s minimum)

No OS ... and use "timer" -- on a "sturdy" tripod.

Your "contrast" setting could have been higher ... (the moon is flat-lighted w/ no whites or blacks).
 
Last edited:
DavidWright2010 said:
How did you set the focus?

How high in the sky was the moon?

Tripod or hand-held?

OS on?

Shutter delay?

David
Click to expand...
It was Manual Focus, I believe it was infinity. It was shot with a tripod with the moon I would say pretty high probably around say standing straight and look up at 65-75 degrees upwards with OS on with 2 seconds delayed timer.
 
imperial said:
DavidWright2010 said:
How did you set the focus?

How high in the sky was the moon?

Tripod or hand-held?

OS on?

Shutter delay?

David
Click to expand...
It was Manual Focus, I believe it was infinity. It was shot with a tripod with the moon I would say pretty high probably around say standing straight and look up at 65-75 degrees upwards with OS on with 2 seconds delayed timer.
Click to expand...
Would suggest not using the stabiliser whilst on the tripod, may be the cause.

regards,

david.
 
imperial said:
DavidWright2010 said:
How did you set the focus?

How high in the sky was the moon?

Tripod or hand-held?

OS on?

Shutter delay?

David
Click to expand...
It was Manual Focus, I believe it was infinity. It was shot with a tripod with the moon I would say pretty high probably around say standing straight and look up at 65-75 degrees upwards with OS on with 2 seconds delayed timer.
Click to expand...
Infinity is not always "infinity" ... some lenses go past it to allow for temperature changes.
 
DavidP03 said:
imperial said:
DavidWright2010 said:
How did you set the focus?

How high in the sky was the moon?

Tripod or hand-held?

OS on?

Shutter delay?

David
Click to expand...
It was Manual Focus, I believe it was infinity. It was shot with a tripod with the moon I would say pretty high probably around say standing straight and look up at 65-75 degrees upwards with OS on with 2 seconds delayed timer.
Click to expand...
Would suggest not using the stabiliser whilst on the tripod, may be the cause.

regards,

david.
Click to expand...
That may be the cause, but when I have forgotten to turn off OS on a tripod-based shot, the image didn't look like yours. But you definitely want OS off. My experience with the Sigma 150-600 mm lens ( a much heavier lens) is that 2 seconds is not long enough for shutter delay.

Does your camera have focus peaking? That helps a lot. You could also try auto-focus on the moon's limb. That's an easy, high contrast focus point.

Also, the single image shown can be sharpened quite a bit. I usually use the wavelet function in Registax 6 (a free app), but Topaz Sharpen AI sometimes works well. I could show what I got by sharpening your single image, If you like.

David
 
PhotoTeach2 said:
imperial said:
This is a single exposure from a7r3 70-200 gm with 2x with APS-C mode. Is this missed focus or lens?
This is a single exposure from a7r3 70-200 gm with 2x with APS-C mode. Is this missed focus or lens?
Click to expand...
The 2X is going to soften your image, and so does additional cropping. (2000mm-EFL would have been better)

I would not have used f/11 (f/4 or 5.6 would have been sharper and allowed a faster Shutter-Speed).

I would have used a faster Shutter-Speed (1/1000s minimum)

Your "contrast" setting could have been higher ... (the moon is flat-lighted w/ no whites or blacks).
Click to expand...
Yea, I was wondering about the shutter speed. I've seen a lot of shooter with higher definition using higher shutter speed. I would try the f/4 and f/5.6 later tonight.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
 
I don't know much about this but I have taken good pics of the moon and bad pics. Atmosphere makes a difference. A hazy or foggy night will put a 'filter' on your lens.
 
DavidWright2010 said:
DavidP03 said:
imperial said:
DavidWright2010 said:
How did you set the focus?

How high in the sky was the moon?

Tripod or hand-held?

OS on?

Shutter delay?

David
Click to expand...
It was Manual Focus, I believe it was infinity. It was shot with a tripod with the moon I would say pretty high probably around say standing straight and look up at 65-75 degrees upwards with OS on with 2 seconds delayed timer.
Click to expand...
Would suggest not using the stabiliser whilst on the tripod, may be the cause.

regards,

david.
Click to expand...
That may be the cause, but when I have forgotten to turn off OS on a tripod-based shot, the image didn't look like yours. But you definitely want OS off. My experience with the Sigma 150-600 mm lens ( a much heavier lens) is that 2 seconds is not long enough for shutter delay.

Does your camera have focus peaking? That helps a lot. You could also try auto-focus on the moon's limb. That's an easy, high contrast focus point.

Also, the single image shown can be sharpened quite a bit. I usually use the wavelet function in Registax 6 (a free app), but Topaz Sharpen AI sometimes works well. I could show what I got by sharpening your single image, If you like.

David
Click to expand...
Makes sense, I would definitely try all options suggested. Yea, I realize that shutter delay might not be long enough along with fairly slow shutter speed (@1/160).

Yea, I do have focus peaking on along with highlight zebras on but I remember sometimes focus peaking didn't show (might be part of the problem)

That'll be great I could compare and see what to improve on with my image.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
 
lost alaskan said:
I don't know much about this but I have taken good pics of the moon and bad pics. Atmosphere makes a difference. A hazy or foggy night will put a 'filter' on your lens.
Click to expand...
That's possible. Although I think it was clear from my view but I was in middle of the city that haze might be obscured by all the light pollution. I guess I'll just have to do it again tonight at different location.
 
The teleconverter will have an effect. You have to nail the focus. You don't need such a high f stop. You will get better contrast when the moon is not full. The atmosphere has an effect - sometimes it is not stable enough to get really sharp images.
 
imperial said:
DavidWright2010 said:
DavidP03 said:
imperial said:
DavidWright2010 said:
How did you set the focus?

How high in the sky was the moon?

Tripod or hand-held?

OS on?

Shutter delay?

David
Click to expand...
It was Manual Focus, I believe it was infinity. It was shot with a tripod with the moon I would say pretty high probably around say standing straight and look up at 65-75 degrees upwards with OS on with 2 seconds delayed timer.
Click to expand...
Would suggest not using the stabiliser whilst on the tripod, may be the cause.

regards,

david.
Click to expand...
That may be the cause, but when I have forgotten to turn off OS on a tripod-based shot, the image didn't look like yours. But you definitely want OS off. My experience with the Sigma 150-600 mm lens ( a much heavier lens) is that 2 seconds is not long enough for shutter delay.

Does your camera have focus peaking? That helps a lot. You could also try auto-focus on the moon's limb. That's an easy, high contrast focus point.

Also, the single image shown can be sharpened quite a bit. I usually use the wavelet function in Registax 6 (a free app), but Topaz Sharpen AI sometimes works well. I could show what I got by sharpening your single image, If you like.

David
Click to expand...
Makes sense, I would definitely try all options suggested. Yea, I realize that shutter delay might not be long enough along with fairly slow shutter speed (@1/160).
Yea, I do have focus peaking on along with highlight zebras on but I remember sometimes focus peaking didn't show (might be part of the problem)
Click to expand...
Have you just answered your problem ???
 
The sun is lighting a full moon straight on and so with little, if any, shadows it is much less likely to get sharp images and with good contrast.

The good news is that with some basic post processing you can enhance a full moon shot significantly while still maintaining reality.

Your first photo is really not too bad.

To get sharper images with contrast and depth, the light needs to hit the moon from an angle so that the craters and hills/mountains will create good shadows.

This first photo below is your original photo but with some contrast added using a Levels Adjustment Layer in Photoshop Elements and sharpening with Topaz Sharpen AI.

The second photo below is one I took some time ago of a crescent moon where the moon is lit from the side.

ecf9304ab27143869ecc4e26e06a2561.jpg

d93665887df54effb6801b7c76cfc1eb.jpg

--
I might not always be right
but I am never wrong.
 
Last edited:
PhotoTeach2 said:
imperial said:
DavidWright2010 said:
DavidP03 said:
imperial said:
DavidWright2010 said:
How did you set the focus?

How high in the sky was the moon?

Tripod or hand-held?

OS on?

Shutter delay?

David
Click to expand...
It was Manual Focus, I believe it was infinity. It was shot with a tripod with the moon I would say pretty high probably around say standing straight and look up at 65-75 degrees upwards with OS on with 2 seconds delayed timer.
Click to expand...
Would suggest not using the stabiliser whilst on the tripod, may be the cause.

regards,

david.
Click to expand...
That may be the cause, but when I have forgotten to turn off OS on a tripod-based shot, the image didn't look like yours. But you definitely want OS off. My experience with the Sigma 150-600 mm lens ( a much heavier lens) is that 2 seconds is not long enough for shutter delay.

Does your camera have focus peaking? That helps a lot. You could also try auto-focus on the moon's limb. That's an easy, high contrast focus point.

Also, the single image shown can be sharpened quite a bit. I usually use the wavelet function in Registax 6 (a free app), but Topaz Sharpen AI sometimes works well. I could show what I got by sharpening your single image, If you like.

David
Click to expand...
Makes sense, I would definitely try all options suggested. Yea, I realize that shutter delay might not be long enough along with fairly slow shutter speed (@1/160).
Yea, I do have focus peaking on along with highlight zebras on but I remember sometimes focus peaking didn't show (might be part of the problem)
Click to expand...
Have you just answered your problem ???
Click to expand...
Let me clarify, I took 100+ shots. Some had peaking but when I change SS speed the peaking would not show hence I said "sometimes it didn't show" so I assumed it still was in focus.
 
imperial said:
DavidWright2010 said:
DavidP03 said:
imperial said:
DavidWright2010 said:
How did you set the focus?

How high in the sky was the moon?

Tripod or hand-held?

OS on?

Shutter delay?

David
Click to expand...
It was Manual Focus, I believe it was infinity. It was shot with a tripod with the moon I would say pretty high probably around say standing straight and look up at 65-75 degrees upwards with OS on with 2 seconds delayed timer.
Click to expand...
Would suggest not using the stabiliser whilst on the tripod, may be the cause.

regards,

david.
Click to expand...
That may be the cause, but when I have forgotten to turn off OS on a tripod-based shot, the image didn't look like yours. But you definitely want OS off. My experience with the Sigma 150-600 mm lens ( a much heavier lens) is that 2 seconds is not long enough for shutter delay.

Does your camera have focus peaking? That helps a lot. You could also try auto-focus on the moon's limb. That's an easy, high contrast focus point.

Also, the single image shown can be sharpened quite a bit. I usually use the wavelet function in Registax 6 (a free app), but Topaz Sharpen AI sometimes works well. I could show what I got by sharpening your single image, If you like.

David
Click to expand...
Makes sense, I would definitely try all options suggested. Yea, I realize that shutter delay might not be long enough along with fairly slow shutter speed (@1/160).
Yea, I do have focus peaking on along with highlight zebras on but I remember sometimes focus peaking didn't show (might be part of the problem)

That'll be great I could compare and see what to improve on with my image.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
Click to expand...
OK, here's my result from Topaz sharpen AI. (Usually the 'motion' option is best, but not in this case since it added a bunch of fake detail.)

b01921d49d914000a560136158c1618d.jpg

I left the contrast as-is - it could also do with a bit of increase.

Comparing the original image with the Topaz result (the 'too soft' processing option) at 300%:

d4ebad12c1c84087b5501dc16621deb4.jpg

David
 
DavidWright2010 said:
imperial said:
DavidWright2010 said:
DavidP03 said:
imperial said:
DavidWright2010 said:
How did you set the focus?

How high in the sky was the moon?

Tripod or hand-held?

OS on?

Shutter delay?

David
Click to expand...
It was Manual Focus, I believe it was infinity. It was shot with a tripod with the moon I would say pretty high probably around say standing straight and look up at 65-75 degrees upwards with OS on with 2 seconds delayed timer.
Click to expand...
Would suggest not using the stabiliser whilst on the tripod, may be the cause.

regards,

david.
Click to expand...
That may be the cause, but when I have forgotten to turn off OS on a tripod-based shot, the image didn't look like yours. But you definitely want OS off. My experience with the Sigma 150-600 mm lens ( a much heavier lens) is that 2 seconds is not long enough for shutter delay.

Does your camera have focus peaking? That helps a lot. You could also try auto-focus on the moon's limb. That's an easy, high contrast focus point.

Also, the single image shown can be sharpened quite a bit. I usually use the wavelet function in Registax 6 (a free app), but Topaz Sharpen AI sometimes works well. I could show what I got by sharpening your single image, If you like.

David
Click to expand...
Makes sense, I would definitely try all options suggested. Yea, I realize that shutter delay might not be long enough along with fairly slow shutter speed (@1/160).
Yea, I do have focus peaking on along with highlight zebras on but I remember sometimes focus peaking didn't show (might be part of the problem)

That'll be great I could compare and see what to improve on with my image.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
Click to expand...
OK, here's my result from Topaz sharpen AI. (Usually the 'motion' option is best, but not in this case since it added a bunch of fake detail.)

b01921d49d914000a560136158c1618d.jpg

I left the contrast as-is - it could also do with a bit of increase.

Comparing the original image with the Topaz result (the 'too soft' processing option) at 300%:

d4ebad12c1c84087b5501dc16621deb4.jpg

David
Click to expand...
Thanks David! It looks a lot better.
 
There are several factors at play, here.
  • A 200mm lens on a full-frame camera is about 1/3 the focal length needed to make detailed sharp images of Luna. Even with the 2x TC, the Moon still doesn't filling much of the frame. I typically shoot with a 500mm lens and a 1.4x TC on an APS-C body. That kit captures a field of view equivalent to a 1,050mm lens on a full-frame body. It's OK but I'd like a longer lens for this subject.
  • There's no need to shoot at f/11. Everything in the night sky is at infinity so, there's no depth of field benefit using an f-stop closed down from wide open. Also, shooting with the lens wide open (or stopped down just a skosh) would allow you to use a faster shutter speed.
  • Use the camera's autofocus. It's more reliably accurate than manual AF for tripod-mounted lunar photography.
  • I'd suggest increasing ISO to 400 or thereabouts. That would allow you to increase shutter speed, close the lens a skosh (if you're concerned about optical quality with the 2x TC), and still deliver enough light to make a decent image with minimal noise.
  • A 5-10 second exposure delay should allow any vibrations to dampen after you press the shutter release.
  • 1st and last quarter Moon phases offer better lighting that reveals rich detail amongst the craters along the day/night terminator.
Give it another go in a few nights or wait until 1st quarter. Experiment with different settings. Good luck.
 
Bill Ferris said:
There are several factors at play, here.
  • A 200mm lens on a full-frame camera is about 1/3 the focal length needed to make detailed sharp images of Luna. Even with the 2x TC, the Moon still doesn't filling much of the frame. I typically shoot with a 500mm lens and a 1.4x TC on an APS-C body. That kit captures a field of view equivalent to a 1,050mm lens on a full-frame body. It's OK but I'd like a longer lens for this subject.
  • There's no need to shoot at f/11. Everything in the night sky is at infinity so, there's no depth of field benefit using an f-stop closed down from wide open. Also, shooting with the lens wide open (or stopped down just a skosh) would allow you to use a faster shutter speed.
  • Use the camera's autofocus. It's more reliably accurate than manual AF for tripod-mounted lunar photography.
  • I'd suggest increasing ISO to 400 or thereabouts. That would allow you to increase shutter speed, close the lens a skosh (if you're concerned about optical quality with the 2x TC), and still deliver enough light to make a decent image with minimal noise.
  • A 5-10 second exposure delay should allow any vibrations to dampen after you press the shutter release.
  • 1st and last quarter Moon phases offer better lighting that reveals rich detail amongst the craters along the day/night terminator.
Give it another go in a few nights or wait until 1st quarter. Experiment with different settings. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Thank you for all the advice. I would certain to try all those on the and plan for that 1st quarter and last quarter moon phase.
 
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