Hmm.. So M43 Dynamic range isn't good..

Pretty happy with my OM-D EM1.2 🙂
I had Canon RP for a short time and DR was even worse
Did that prevent you from getting a nice shot?

It did not prevent me from taking the nice shots. And for $1000.00, I could abuse the camera with a little less concern for the replacement.

JPEG (RGB display) has at most 8bit of DR. If the scene is high contrast and exceed the DR of your camera, you need to decide which way to compress the DR.

Negative film has about 14 stop DR but the printing paper has only about 6 stops.

A lot of burning and dodging were needed. Not that different with digital images.

Know yourself and then know your camera ;-)
DR of the 20mp MFT sensor is ok, but nothing special compare to Sony/Nikon APS-C and FF

...
 
Pretty happy with my OM-D EM1.2 🙂
I had Canon RP for a short time and DR was even worse
Did that prevent you from getting a nice shot?
taking - no, but getting - yes
It did not prevent me from taking the nice shots. And for $1000.00, I could abuse the camera with a little less concern for the replacement.

JPEG (RGB display) has at most 8bit of DR. If the scene is high contrast and exceed the DR of your camera, you need to decide which way to compress the DR.

Negative film has about 14 stop DR but the printing paper has only about 6 stops.

A lot of burning and dodging were needed. Not that different with digital images.

Know yourself and then know your camera ;-)
DR of the 20mp MFT sensor is ok, but nothing special compare to Sony/Nikon APS-C and FF

...

G9 and A7III RAW files are here
 
The issue is this is what you can get relative to other manufacturer's APS-C sensors. The dynamic range in m43 is certainly usable, but it's still pretty far off from what's available in other formats.

07b0f35cf88845bcb1b1c72df338d9d3.jpg
Ummmmmm, no.

f98c4b5253534fc589aa35a577565d74.jpg
Ummm, yes? First off, not sure who took the measurements you posted but it looks like they don't have a clue what they're doing. If it's ePhotozine then they are indeed clueless. Second, beyond the magnitude of the read noise alone, which is the primary differentiator among cameras concerning dynamic range, is the quality of the noise; none of the normal metrics measure this. It's why DR limitations with the early Canon sensors were even worse than the data suggested. The m43 sensors seem to suffer from some similar issues where the colors become much more washed out and skewed compared to other formats with more extreme manipulation of the image. In this case, it's partly an Adobe issue as I don't think they put much effort into correctly setting the black point for each camera as you can improve things by setting shadow tint but there's also something real there. It's not to say that m43 is bad at all, but it is absolutely lacking in this department compared to some of the APS-C competition.
 
The issue is this is what you can get relative to other manufacturer's APS-C sensors. The dynamic range in m43 is certainly usable, but it's still pretty far off from what's available in other formats.

07b0f35cf88845bcb1b1c72df338d9d3.jpg
Ummmmmm, no.

f98c4b5253534fc589aa35a577565d74.jpg
So you'd rather have a graph of a bunch of numbers telling you the MFT DR is on a par with a FF camera, than look at photos that demonstrate the actual performance difference between three MFT camera and an APS-C camera. Personally I'd rather have the camera that produced the top-right image from the same lighting conditions.

There are some problems with both data sets. I suspect that the main problem with the DR graph is that it is reporting engineering DR at the pixel level. This tells you nothing useful about how a picture will look. DxOMark publishes both pixel-level DR and normalized figures that give one an idea of how the single-pixel DR will translate into the look of a displayed image of a certain size and pixel count.

This pixel level DR is about as useless in describing the look of a final image as is the lp/mm measurements of image sharpness provided by Lens Top. To get an idea of how sharp the images from two different formats of lens/sensor combination will produce, you need to multiply the lp/mm figure by the heights of the respective sensors in mm. This will give you lp/ph which is an apples-to-apples measurement for comparing sharpness of images produced by different systems.

Similarly, one needs to compare DR figures normalized by a particular pixel count and image size to get an idea of how the DR effects of two different formats on final images will compare. The four crops compared in whumber's post are normalized to be the same portion of the scene. Thus the four crops in his post give a much better representation of the effect of the DRs on the quality of images produced by the compared systems at their base ISOs.

There are some problems with the comparison in whumber's post however. They show a comparison at base ISO, but the baseISO s of the three MFT systems seem to be 200, while the base ISO of the APS-C system is 100. This means that the APS-C system was given a stop more exposure. This results in 1 Ev more DR. One could also have compared the results from images taken at ISO 200 on all four systems. Then the difference in DER, though still in favour of the APS-C camera, would not have been as great.

One compares at base ISO because it is notionally the best each camera can do. However, all the MFT cameras have extended low ISO settings, and all have more highlight headroom at base ISO than the APS-C camera. So one could actually do a fraction of a stop better with the MFT cameras by using a fraction of a stop of extended low ISO.

Finally, the DPR exposure latitude test is a bit of a rough-and-ready way to measure. If one were actually faced with such low light levels as are used in the test, one would likely use an ISO setting above base. On these cameras, this would have the effect of increasing the SNR by a little bit. This in turn would increase the DR a little bit.

Despite these reservations I have about the DPR tests, they are still far more representative of the difference in DR abilities of the tested cameras as tehy affect imag output.
 
The issue is this is what you can get relative to other manufacturer's APS-C sensors. The dynamic range in m43 is certainly usable, but it's still pretty far off from what's available in other formats.

07b0f35cf88845bcb1b1c72df338d9d3.jpg
Ummmmmm, no.

f98c4b5253534fc589aa35a577565d74.jpg
Ummm, yes? First off, not sure who took the measurements you posted but it looks like they don't have a clue what they're doing. If it's ePhotozine then they are indeed clueless. Second, beyond the magnitude of the read noise alone, which is the primary differentiator among cameras concerning dynamic range, is the quality of the noise; none of the normal metrics measure this. It's why DR limitations with the early Canon sensors were even worse than the data suggested. The m43 sensors seem to suffer from some similar issues where the colors become much more washed out and skewed compared to other formats with more extreme manipulation of the image. In this case, it's partly an Adobe issue as I don't think they put much effort into correctly setting the black point for each camera as you can improve things by setting shadow tint but there's also something real there. It's not to say that m43 is bad at all, but it is absolutely lacking in this department compared to some of the APS-C competition.
What do you mean by "lacking"? Lacking as in it worse or that is possible to improve dr closer to apsc and the hardware is limiting potential?

Also your comparison has too many variables changing.
 
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The issue is this is what you can get relative to other manufacturer's APS-C sensors. The dynamic range in m43 is certainly usable, but it's still pretty far off from what's available in other formats.

07b0f35cf88845bcb1b1c72df338d9d3.jpg
Ummmmmm, no.

f98c4b5253534fc589aa35a577565d74.jpg
So you'd rather have a graph of a bunch of numbers telling you the MFT DR is on a par with a FF camera, than look at photos that demonstrate the actual performance difference between three MFT camera and an APS-C camera. Personally I'd rather have the camera that produced the top-right image from the same lighting conditions.

There are some problems with both data sets. I suspect that the main problem with the DR graph is that it is reporting engineering DR at the pixel level. This tells you nothing useful about how a picture will look. DxOMark publishes both pixel-level DR and normalized figures that give one an idea of how the single-pixel DR will translate into the look of a displayed image of a certain size and pixel count.

This pixel level DR is about as useless in describing the look of a final image as is the lp/mm measurements of image sharpness provided by Lens Top. To get an idea of how sharp the images from two different formats of lens/sensor combination will produce, you need to multiply the lp/mm figure by the heights of the respective sensors in mm. This will give you lp/ph which is an apples-to-apples measurement for comparing sharpness of images produced by different systems.

Similarly, one needs to compare DR figures normalized by a particular pixel count and image size to get an idea of how the DR effects of two different formats on final images will compare. The four crops compared in whumber's post are normalized to be the same portion of the scene. Thus the four crops in his post give a much better representation of the effect of the DRs on the quality of images produced by the compared systems at their base ISOs.

There are some problems with the comparison in whumber's post however. They show a comparison at base ISO, but the baseISO s of the three MFT systems seem to be 200, while the base ISO of the APS-C system is 100. This means that the APS-C system was given a stop more exposure. This results in 1 Ev more DR. One could also have compared the results from images taken at ISO 200 on all four systems. Then the difference in DER, though still in favour of the APS-C camera, would not have been as great.

One compares at base ISO because it is notionally the best each camera can do. However, all the MFT cameras have extended low ISO settings, and all have more highlight headroom at base ISO than the APS-C camera. So one could actually do a fraction of a stop better with the MFT cameras by using a fraction of a stop of extended low ISO.

Finally, the DPR exposure latitude test is a bit of a rough-and-ready way to measure. If one were actually faced with such low light levels as are used in the test, one would likely use an ISO setting above base. On these cameras, this would have the effect of increasing the SNR by a little bit. This in turn would increase the DR a little bit.

Despite these reservations I have about the DPR tests, they are still far more representative of the difference in DR abilities of the tested cameras as tehy affect imag output.
Ummmmmm -no https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65141079

Notice that I don't need to write half the encyclopedia britannica to make my point
 
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The issue is this is what you can get relative to other manufacturer's APS-C sensors. The dynamic range in m43 is certainly usable, but it's still pretty far off from what's available in other formats.

07b0f35cf88845bcb1b1c72df338d9d3.jpg
Ummmmmm, no.

f98c4b5253534fc589aa35a577565d74.jpg
So you'd rather have a graph of a bunch of numbers telling you the MFT DR is on a par with a FF camera, than look at photos that demonstrate the actual performance difference between three MFT camera and an APS-C camera. Personally I'd rather have the camera that produced the top-right image from the same lighting conditions.

There are some problems with both data sets. I suspect that the main problem with the DR graph is that it is reporting engineering DR at the pixel level. This tells you nothing useful about how a picture will look. DxOMark publishes both pixel-level DR and normalized figures that give one an idea of how the single-pixel DR will translate into the look of a displayed image of a certain size and pixel count.

This pixel level DR is about as useless in describing the look of a final image as is the lp/mm measurements of image sharpness provided by Lens Top. To get an idea of how sharp the images from two different formats of lens/sensor combination will produce, you need to multiply the lp/mm figure by the heights of the respective sensors in mm. This will give you lp/ph which is an apples-to-apples measurement for comparing sharpness of images produced by different systems.

Similarly, one needs to compare DR figures normalized by a particular pixel count and image size to get an idea of how the DR effects of two different formats on final images will compare. The four crops compared in whumber's post are normalized to be the same portion of the scene. Thus the four crops in his post give a much better representation of the effect of the DRs on the quality of images produced by the compared systems at their base ISOs.

There are some problems with the comparison in whumber's post however. They show a comparison at base ISO, but the baseISO s of the three MFT systems seem to be 200, while the base ISO of the APS-C system is 100. This means that the APS-C system was given a stop more exposure. This results in 1 Ev more DR. One could also have compared the results from images taken at ISO 200 on all four systems. Then the difference in DER, though still in favour of the APS-C camera, would not have been as great.

One compares at base ISO because it is notionally the best each camera can do. However, all the MFT cameras have extended low ISO settings, and all have more highlight headroom at base ISO than the APS-C camera. So one could actually do a fraction of a stop better with the MFT cameras by using a fraction of a stop of extended low ISO.

Finally, the DPR exposure latitude test is a bit of a rough-and-ready way to measure. If one were actually faced with such low light levels as are used in the test, one would likely use an ISO setting above base. On these cameras, this would have the effect of increasing the SNR by a little bit. This in turn would increase the DR a little bit.

Despite these reservations I have about the DPR tests, they are still far more representative of the difference in DR abilities of the tested cameras as tehy affect imag output.
Ummmmmm -no https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65141079

Notice that I don't need to write half the encyclopedia britannica to make my point
When you don't have anything of any validity to say, you don't need much space to say it.
 
Not that I would just accept one's place DR measurements or charts, but I mean, I think people with access to m43rds and the current Fuji APSC sensor know by experience the Fuji performs a bit better.
I've got no issue with that. That's quite correct. You would expect it to be a bit better. But, when I learned English, there's quite a difference between "a bit", & "significant"
I think the difference is significant - but that also depends on what you care about. To me near 1 stop DR difference is significant, and I certainly see better tones from current Fuji cameras (I have had access to an X100V since end of last year). And I can see how the tones and less clipping with current Fuji cameras happen.

Once again, all system have their tradeoffs. I think it's also fair to say that some evidence was presented originally showing the noise using DPreview's own raw/comparator.
Sigh. The only significant thing I can see, is the variation in test results between the same sensor. Enough for me to take them all with a grain of salt, & look at results -in the form of actual photos. Where the differences are pretty much insignificant. Blind tests bear this out.
Strangely enough the results/graph you posted showing the Olympus and the Nikon FF Z6 having the Same DR at least in quite some range of low ISOs invites to take it with a HUGE TRUCK of salt...

And no, blind tests don't "bear this out." Neither direct experience of using both types of cameras. If you talk about variances, the only outlier is the Xpro3. But I am sure if it was the Olympus the one with the gain over Fuji, that probably wouldn't bother much.

For the record the graphs you quoted from digital camera world in their methodology isn't as solid as other places (as clearly evidenced by my first paragraph observation). If you want to see how this all correlates with a more rigorous test, dxo shows usually pretty well:

7c49174f16184ae48bcdb9b87be570ae.jpg.png

0b757d986b254d3e9ec25c92736a061c.jpg.png

Keep in mind This Sony only shoots lossy compressed Raw. The Fuji would do a bit better, particularly Fuji using a 26MP sensor that performs similarly to the 24 MP sensor (more resolution).

Of course NONE of this should be surprising at all. As I said:

- The Olympus sensor and Fuji's are made by Sony. This makes them quite comparable.

- Physics do dictate that a sensor (Fuji) with 64% more surface area than m43rds will perform better

- The sensor in the Fuji is a more modern design than the one in the Olympus (BSI, copper interconnect.

But yeah, let denial reign. m43rds surely must be equal for some unfounded reason.

--
Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell
 
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When did the Z6 become an APSC sensor camera?
f98c4b5253534fc589aa35a577565d74.jpg

from your screenshot "Z6.. on par with ... Olympus cameras".
IDK who did that test, but it is definitely wrong.
This is what I think of it all https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65141079
And in turn, here's evidence and what I think of that

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65142269

I think it's patently absurd to conclude the Z6 will have the same DR according to that chart. On that ALONE instead of keeping up with "no significant differences" it should immediately make you question their methodology.

And if you are going to quote your reply that all you see is "variances" why even bother quoting your wrong graph in the first place.

--
Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell
 
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The issue is this is what you can get relative to other manufacturer's APS-C sensors. The dynamic range in m43 is certainly usable, but it's still pretty far off from what's available in other formats.

07b0f35cf88845bcb1b1c72df338d9d3.jpg
Ummmmmm, no.

f98c4b5253534fc589aa35a577565d74.jpg
So you'd rather have a graph of a bunch of numbers telling you the MFT DR is on a par with a FF camera, than look at photos that demonstrate the actual performance difference between three MFT camera and an APS-C camera. Personally I'd rather have the camera that produced the top-right image from the same lighting conditions.

[]
Notice that I don't need to write half the encyclopedia britannica to make my point
You completely ignored his point where someone showed you REAL files and you resorted to a fantasy graph that points to something has gone clearly wrong.

--
Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell
 
Pretty happy with my OM-D EM1.2 🙂
Glad you are happy with your EM1.2, but...

not sure who has said the DR is bad per se. Just that there are other tools with more DR.
Well, As I explained in the thread earlier. I could have titled this thread better. This came from my friend who has EM1. He was looking to switch to FF because he thinks the m43 has low DR. So the better title could be "So my friend think DR of M43 isn't good.." Maybe this gives you some context.

I agree it can't compete with FF because of the sensor size and the laws of physics. But it is good for what it is and I am certainly enjoying this format after shooting with DSLRs and FF mirrorless.
The question here shouldn't be "if it's good for what it is" but whether your friend needs/wants/photographic domain can benefit from a bigger sensor (APSC or FF) with a better DR. Good enough for you may not be good enough for your friend.

It all depends.

All of these are tools with tradeoffs. You gain size/weight advantage in m43rds but at the expense of image quality. But within a range of vocals APSC has become rather competitive in size and weight, and even some FF's.

Of course if you are into telephoto, m43rds wins the size/weight hands down, at the expense of image quality.

It is what it is- all cameras are good now.

Disclosure: I shoot m43rds but I can acknowledge the advantages of a bigger sensor camera body system.

--
Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell
 
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The issue is this is what you can get relative to other manufacturer's APS-C sensors. The dynamic range in m43 is certainly usable, but it's still pretty far off from what's available in other formats.

07b0f35cf88845bcb1b1c72df338d9d3.jpg
Well, I shoot Nikon FF mirrorless so I know what is the difference. I never intended to compare it with any other format because the sensor size is small and it can't defy the law of physics.

Having said that I believe if one uses it knowing it's limitations it is a good enough tool for the specific purpuse.
This entirely depends on each photographers needs/wants/photographic domain and desired end result. Which is why we have the choices of one tool over another, as they all have pros and cons.

--
Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell
 
The issue is this is what you can get relative to other manufacturer's APS-C sensors. The dynamic range in m43 is certainly usable, but it's still pretty far off from what's available in other formats.

07b0f35cf88845bcb1b1c72df338d9d3.jpg
Ummmmmm, no.

f98c4b5253534fc589aa35a577565d74.jpg
So you'd rather have a graph of a bunch of numbers telling you the MFT DR is on a par with a FF camera, than look at photos that demonstrate the actual performance difference between three MFT camera and an APS-C camera. Personally I'd rather have the camera that produced the top-right image from the same lighting conditions.

There are some problems with both data sets. I suspect that the main problem with the DR graph is that it is reporting engineering DR at the pixel level. This tells you nothing useful about how a picture will look. DxOMark publishes both pixel-level DR and normalized figures that give one an idea of how the single-pixel DR will translate into the look of a displayed image of a certain size and pixel count.

This pixel level DR is about as useless in describing the look of a final image as is the lp/mm measurements of image sharpness provided by Lens Top. To get an idea of how sharp the images from two different formats of lens/sensor combination will produce, you need to multiply the lp/mm figure by the heights of the respective sensors in mm. This will give you lp/ph which is an apples-to-apples measurement for comparing sharpness of images produced by different systems.

Similarly, one needs to compare DR figures normalized by a particular pixel count and image size to get an idea of how the DR effects of two different formats on final images will compare. The four crops compared in whumber's post are normalized to be the same portion of the scene. Thus the four crops in his post give a much better representation of the effect of the DRs on the quality of images produced by the compared systems at their base ISOs.

There are some problems with the comparison in whumber's post however. They show a comparison at base ISO, but the baseISO s of the three MFT systems seem to be 200, while the base ISO of the APS-C system is 100. This means that the APS-C system was given a stop more exposure. This results in 1 Ev more DR. One could also have compared the results from images taken at ISO 200 on all four systems. Then the difference in DER, though still in favour of the APS-C camera, would not have been as great.

One compares at base ISO because it is notionally the best each camera can do. However, all the MFT cameras have extended low ISO settings, and all have more highlight headroom at base ISO than the APS-C camera. So one could actually do a fraction of a stop better with the MFT cameras by using a fraction of a stop of extended low ISO.

Finally, the DPR exposure latitude test is a bit of a rough-and-ready way to measure. If one were actually faced with such low light levels as are used in the test, one would likely use an ISO setting above base. On these cameras, this would have the effect of increasing the SNR by a little bit. This in turn would increase the DR a little bit.

Despite these reservations I have about the DPR tests, they are still far more representative of the difference in DR abilities of the tested cameras as tehy affect imag output.
Ummmmmm -no https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65141079

Notice that I don't need to write half the encyclopedia britannica to make my point
When you don't have anything of any validity to say, you don't need much space to say it.
Lol. You haven't understood a thing I've written have you?

 
The issue is this is what you can get relative to other manufacturer's APS-C sensors. The dynamic range in m43 is certainly usable, but it's still pretty far off from what's available in other formats.

07b0f35cf88845bcb1b1c72df338d9d3.jpg
Ummmmmm, no.

f98c4b5253534fc589aa35a577565d74.jpg
So you'd rather have a graph of a bunch of numbers telling you the MFT DR is on a par with a FF camera, than look at photos that demonstrate the actual performance difference between three MFT camera and an APS-C camera. Personally I'd rather have the camera that produced the top-right image from the same lighting conditions.

[]

Ummmmmm -no https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65141079
Notice that I don't need to write half the encyclopedia britannica to make my point
You completely ignored his point where someone showed you REAL files and you resorted to a fantasy graph that points to something has gone clearly wrong.
Lol. I have ignored nothing. I do my own tests.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65140459

Edit -it's a bit like my motorcycles. One does around 210 km/hr top speed, another just over 250. The slower one is a bit smaller and lighter, and more fun to ride. And still plenty fast. A bit like my cameras you could say.
 
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Pretty happy with my OM-D EM1.2 🙂
Glad you are happy with your EM1.2, but...

not sure who has said the DR is bad per se. Just that there are other tools with more DR.
Well, As I explained in the thread earlier. I could have titled this thread better. This came from my friend who has EM1. He was looking to switch to FF because he thinks the m43 has low DR. So the better title could be "So my friend think DR of M43 isn't good.." Maybe this gives you some context.

I agree it can't compete with FF because of the sensor size and the laws of physics. But it is good for what it is and I am certainly enjoying this format after shooting with DSLRs and FF mirrorless.
The question here shouldn't be "if it's good for what it is" but whether your friend needs/wants/photographic domain can benefit from a bigger sensor (APSC or FF) with a better DR. Good enough for you may not be good enough for your friend.

It all depends.

All of these are tools with tradeoffs. You gain size/weight advantage in m43rds but at the expense of image quality. But within a range of vocals APSC has become rather competitive in size and weight, and even some FF's.

Of course if you are into telephoto, m43rds wins the size/weight hands down,
EDIT: The following was written before I re-read your post and saw you had specified telephoto (I carelessly thought you were talking more generally). What I wrote still stands, but with a bunch more caveats.

Not necessarily, of course. I am going to do some cherry picking here, but for good reason.

I am about to upgrade some gear. I have settled on wanting a walkaround zoom in the 24-200mm (FF equivalent) range (28mm is too narrow; much more than 200mm is too big a compromise). The two best options on the market, as far as I can tell, are the Olympus OM-D E-M1iii with an Olympus 12-100mm f/4 or a Nikon Z5 with a Nikkor 24-200mm f/4-6.3.

It turns out they are virtually the same size. The Olympus is 1141 grams (580g body + 561g lens). The Nikon is 1245 grams (675g body + 570g lens). If you want to get into light gathering equivalence, the 100 grams gets you a faster lens on the Nikon.

https://j.mp/3w9SjuB

I haven't yet crunched the numbers on prices (and it is probably not the fairest comparison as the Olympus is more fully featured).
at the expense of image quality.

It is what it is- all cameras are good now.

Disclosure: I shoot m43rds but I can acknowledge the advantages of a bigger sensor camera body system.
There are certainly still advantages to both. In particularly, the m4/3 gives me access to cheaper lenses (unless I want to adapt older Nikon lenses, in which case it arguably wins on price) and definitely wins on longer telephoto weight at size. At the same time, the Nikon gear wins if you are looking for ultra wide options.

In the end, I am still undecided. I used to have an EM-1i, which I really liked, and can get a mkii cheaply enough. But I can also just keep my EM-10ii and access the cheaper m4/3 lenses that way, while adding in the Nikon for quality. I will also upgrade my (now sold) Fujifilm X-T1 - I just wish Fujifilm could offer me an 24-200mm (or thereabouts) equivalent worth buying!

--
All lies and jests; Still a man hears what he wants to hear; And disregards the rest
 
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But yeah, let denial reign. m43rds surely must be equal for some unfounded reason.
The only person saying this is you. Quite clearly, you haven't understood what I've actually written
 
But yeah, let denial reign. m43rds surely must be equal for some unfounded reason.
The only person saying this is you. Quite clearly, you haven't understood what I've actually written
Oh, I am merely describing with sarcasm what the conclusion seems to be for some. From everything I told you this is what you quote, sorry but that's not how it works. Truth is, the other sensors have more DR, color sensitivity, resolution, better ISO. Whether that difference is important to you or me is a different story.
 
The issue is this is what you can get relative to other manufacturer's APS-C sensors. The dynamic range in m43 is certainly usable, but it's still pretty far off from what's available in other formats.

07b0f35cf88845bcb1b1c72df338d9d3.jpg
Ummmmmm, no.

f98c4b5253534fc589aa35a577565d74.jpg
So you'd rather have a graph of a bunch of numbers telling you the MFT DR is on a par with a FF camera, than look at photos that demonstrate the actual performance difference between three MFT camera and an APS-C camera. Personally I'd rather have the camera that produced the top-right image from the same lighting conditions.

[]

Ummmmmm -no https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65141079
Notice that I don't need to write half the encyclopedia britannica to make my point
You completely ignored his point where someone showed you REAL files and you resorted to a fantasy graph that points to something has gone clearly wrong.
Lol. I have ignored nothing. I do my own tests.
Oh you did ignore it. The test you did doesn't compare anything and you didn't comment to what was proposed to you with evidence.
Edit -it's a bit like my motorcycles. One does around 210 km/hr top speed, another just over 250. The slower one is a bit smaller and lighter, and more fun to ride. And still plenty fast. A bit like my cameras you could say.


--
Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell
 
Pretty happy with my OM-D EM1.2 🙂
Glad you are happy with your EM1.2, but...

not sure who has said the DR is bad per se. Just that there are other tools with more DR.
Well, As I explained in the thread earlier. I could have titled this thread better. This came from my friend who has EM1. He was looking to switch to FF because he thinks the m43 has low DR. So the better title could be "So my friend think DR of M43 isn't good.." Maybe this gives you some context.

I agree it can't compete with FF because of the sensor size and the laws of physics. But it is good for what it is and I am certainly enjoying this format after shooting with DSLRs and FF mirrorless.
The question here shouldn't be "if it's good for what it is" but whether your friend needs/wants/photographic domain can benefit from a bigger sensor (APSC or FF) with a better DR. Good enough for you may not be good enough for your friend.

It all depends.

All of these are tools with tradeoffs. You gain size/weight advantage in m43rds but at the expense of image quality. But within a range of vocals APSC has become rather competitive in size and weight, and even some FF's.

Of course if you are into telephoto, m43rds wins the size/weight hands down,
EDIT: The following was written before I re-read your post and saw you had specified telephoto (I carelessly thought you were talking more generally). What I wrote still stands, but with a bunch more caveats.
I did mention telephoto but I also mentioned that within a range of focals depending what you are doing, now FF and particularly APSC do every well in the size/weight comparison.
Not necessarily, of course. I am going to do some cherry picking here, but for good reason.

I am about to upgrade some gear. I have settled on wanting a walkaround zoom in the 24-200mm (FF equivalent) range (28mm is too narrow; much more than 200mm is too big a compromise). The two best options on the market, as far as I can tell, are the Olympus OM-D E-M1iii with an Olympus 12-100mm f/4 or a Nikon Z5 with a Nikkor 24-200mm f/4-6.3.

It turns out they are virtually the same size. The Olympus is 1141 grams (580g body + 561g lens). The Nikon is 1245 grams (675g body + 570g lens). If you want to get into light gathering equivalence, the 100 grams gets you a faster lens on the Nikon.

https://j.mp/3w9SjuB

I haven't yet crunched the numbers on prices (and it is probably not the fairest comparison as the Olympus is more fully featured).
You are preaching tot he choir then. That's why I said that within a range of focals, FF and particularly APSC have become quite competitive in size and weight.
at the expense of image quality.

It is what it is- all cameras are good now.

Disclosure: I shoot m43rds but I can acknowledge the advantages of a bigger sensor camera body system.
There are certainly still advantages to both. In particularly, the m4/3 gives me access to cheaper lenses (unless I want to adapt older Nikon lenses, in which case it arguably wins on price) and definitely wins on longer telephoto weight at size. At the same time, the Nikon gear wins if you are looking for ultra wide options.

In the end, I am still undecided. I used to have an EM-1i, which I really liked, and can get a mkii cheaply enough. But I can also just keep my EM-10ii and access the cheaper m4/3 lenses that way, while adding in the Nikon for quality. I will also upgrade my (now sold) Fujifilm X-T1 - I just wish Fujifilm could offer me an 24-200mm (or thereabouts) equivalent worth buying!
Yes, it's good options all around. The best match depends on one's needs and wants, financials permitting.
 
Fascinating I'm sure but if I ever had to compensate 6 EV I'd be totally embarrassed about my failure to expose anything like properly. So far that has never happened. That is a lab test. I take pictures.
 

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