Rating film golden hour?

I am currently doing 365 day challenge with film, as I’m trying to work it out.

I shot these two photos below with Portra 400 and it was pretty much golden hour. These were scanned on a frontier and obviously don’t look too great. A couple of questions

Is it better for me to shoot golden hour with a different film rating? What would be the best way to fix this colour cast?

Thanks

brandon77 said:

I am currently doing 365 day challenge with film, as I’m trying to work it out.

I shot these two photos below with Portra 400 and it was pretty much golden hour. These were scanned on a frontier and obviously don’t look too great. A couple of questions

Is it better for me to shoot golden hour with a different film rating? What would be the best way to fix this colour cast?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Going off these two samples I’m not sure what you’re issue is. They look ‘fine’ with no obvious colour cast.

One point regarding exposures. Underexposing generally results in more saturated colours, and is often used at sunset/sunrise (note that this is at the expense of shadow detail and increase contrast). This goes against the standard advice that colour neg films like to be overexposed, which for these kind of scenes will wash out the colour.

tassienick said:

brandon77 said:

I am currently doing 365 day challenge with film, as I’m trying to work it out.

I shot these two photos below with Portra 400 and it was pretty much golden hour. These were scanned on a frontier and obviously don’t look too great. A couple of questions

Is it better for me to shoot golden hour with a different film rating? What would be the best way to fix this colour cast?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Going off these two samples I’m not sure what you’re issue is. They look ‘fine’ with no obvious colour cast.

Click to expand...

To me these shots look much to yellow/orange. Ugly more than a pleasing photo to me. This was shot at 400

tassienick said:

One point regarding exposures. Underexposing generally results in more saturated colours, and is often used at sunset/sunrise (note that this is at the expense of shadow detail and increase contrast). This goes against the standard advice that colour neg films like to be overexposed, which for these kind of scenes will wash out the colour.

Click to expand...

brandon77 said:

tassienick said:

brandon77 said:

I am currently doing 365 day challenge with film, as I’m trying to work it out.

I shot these two photos below with Portra 400 and it was pretty much golden hour. These were scanned on a frontier and obviously don’t look too great. A couple of questions

Is it better for me to shoot golden hour with a different film rating? What would be the best way to fix this colour cast?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Going off these two samples I’m not sure what you’re issue is. They look ‘fine’ with no obvious colour cast.

Click to expand...

To me these shots look much to yellow/orange. Ugly more than a pleasing photo to me. This was shot at 400

Click to expand...

Ok. The exposures look good to me, so if you're not happy with colour balance I would be adjusting that, either during the scan or in post.

For fear of stating the very very obvious, direct light during golden hour is pretty orange/yellow (that's why its called 'golden' hour). I'm not quite sure what you're after if it isn't this...

brandon77 said:

brandon77 said:

One point regarding exposures. Underexposing generally results in more saturated colours, and is often used at sunset/sunrise (note that this is at the expense of shadow detail and increase contrast). This goes against the standard advice that colour neg films like to be overexposed, which for these kind of scenes will wash out the colour.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Personally, I would not be shooting portraits in the golden hour. I am sure there are good examples, but very tough to get right.

I actually clicked on this expecting to see landscapes or architecture where the golden hour can be phenomenal.

Also a 400 ISO negative film is going to be very warm anyway. Perhaps some fill flash and/or a cooler film to help create more natural skin tones.

brandon77 said:

I am currently doing 365 day challenge with film, as I’m trying to work it out.

I shot these two photos below with Portra 400 and it was pretty much golden hour. These were scanned on a frontier and obviously don’t look too great. A couple of questions

Is it better for me to shoot golden hour with a different film rating? What would be the best way to fix this colour cast?

Thanks

Click to expand...

You got the "golden" color cast as delivered by the sun in such a low position. The golden hour only provides a certain quality of light. It doesn't, by itself, make good portraits. You still have to consider the background, posing, light direction and shadows.

I prefer to shoot golden hour portraits with the sun behind or mostly behind the subject(s). I pick an aperture wide enough to render the background gently out of focus, but with enough DoF to keep my subjects(s) fully in focus. I meter the background alone and choose a shutter speed to render it well exposed or maybe a half stop underexposed, depending on the look I want to achieve.

At this point, the subjects will be underexposed because I've intentionally set up the shot to expose the background that either includes the sun or nearly does. I dial up the fill-in flash to bring the subjects up to the proper exposure. On camera flash produces flat lighting, which is kind of boring, so I usually supplement it with a large reflector to the side of the subject(s), often angled to reflect the natural sunlight rather than my flash.

There's a big difference between purposely shooting a portrait and simply taking a snapshot. I don't want to make it sound harder than it is. With a little experimentation and practice, you can easily make awesome golden hour portraits.

brandon77 said:

I am currently doing 365 day challenge with film, as I’m trying to work it out.

Click to expand...

Even at one roll a day that is a challenge I would reject out of hand.

brandon77 said:

I shot these two photos below with Portra 400 and it was pretty much golden hour. These were scanned on a frontier and obviously don’t look too great.

Click to expand...

I must agree.

brandon77 said:

A couple of questions

Is it better for me to shoot golden hour with a different film rating? What would be the best way to fix this colour cast?

Thanks

Click to expand...

I do not shoot color at the end of the day. Although the orange cast can be mitigated via color temp in Photoshop it will not look as natural as if you simply shot a bit earlier.

I do not use Portra.

ASA 400 speed film sacrifices IQ in exchange for the low light capability and you have full sun with distinct shadows so in this case the 400 is overkill and I would be using 100 ASA film at f4 (requiring 1/250 or 1/500th second shutter) and generating more separation for the couple from the surroundings .

With the sun setting at 7PM I would stop shooting color by 5:30.

--
dw

DenWil said:

brandon77 said:

I am currently doing 365 day challenge with film, as I’m trying to work it out.

Click to expand...

Even at one roll a day that is a challenge I would reject out of hand.

DenWil said:

I shot these two photos below with Portra 400 and it was pretty much golden hour. These were scanned on a frontier and obviously don’t look too great.

Click to expand...

I must agree.

DenWil said:

A couple of questions

Is it better for me to shoot golden hour with a different film rating? What would be the best way to fix this colour cast?

Thanks

Click to expand...

I do not shoot color at the end of the day. Although the orange cast can be mitigated via color temp in Photoshop it will not look as natural as if you simply shot a bit earlier.

I do not use Portra.

ASA 400 speed film sacrifices IQ in exchange for the low light capability and you have full sun with distinct shadows so in this case the 400 is overkill and I would be using 100 ASA film at f4 (requiring 1/250 or 1/500th second shutter) and generating more separation for the couple from the surroundings .

With the sun setting at 7PM I would stop shooting color by 5:30.

Click to expand...

Yes I think I agree. Although it will be more sunny, I won’t get this colour. Would using a 100 or 160!change the colour much?

DenWil said:

--
dw

Click to expand...

John Crowe said:

Personally, I would not be shooting portraits in the golden hour. I am sure there are good examples, but very tough to get right.

I actually clicked on this expecting to see landscapes or architecture where the golden hour can be phenomenal.

Also a 400 ISO negative film is going to be very warm anyway. Perhaps some fill flash and/or a cooler film to help create more natural skin tones.

Click to expand...

What would you suggest as a cooler film? Portra 160? Thanks

John Crowe said:

...

Also a 400 ISO negative film is going to be very warm anyway. Perhaps some fill flash and/or a cooler film to help create more natural skin tones.

Click to expand...

Why do you say a 400iso film will be warm? Colour ‘warmth’ isn’t a product of film speed...

You are quite right. I did not catch myself on that fast enough. To really get a cooler film one would have to go with something like an Ektachrome E100 tranparency which the OP would not likely want to do, although it would make digitizing easier.

As I think about this again I go back to my original comment that I would simply avoid portraits at this hour. Although others have made some good recommendations for doing so.

I see overexposed flat shadowless lighting and poor scanning. What areas and type of metering did you use?

When people tout the beauty of photography during the golden they mean the modeling of the shadows or colors of the sunset.

brandon77 said:

Is it better for me to shoot golden hour with a different film rating? What would be the best way to fix this colour cast?

Click to expand...

I think you should look at examples of 'golden hour portraits' and compare them with your early attempts here to identify the differences. I don't think color is the problem.

sybersitizen said:

brandon77 said:

Is it better for me to shoot golden hour with a different film rating? What would be the best way to fix this colour cast?

Click to expand...

I think you should look at examples of 'golden hour portraits' and compare them with your early attempts here to identify the differences. I don't think color is the problem.

Click to expand...

Many of these are digital. I think it’s the film I’m using possibly

sybersitizen said:

Click to expand...

I am surprised how well those blown out backgrounds work! Others have really good backgrounds.

brandon77 said:

sybersitizen said:

brandon77 said:

Is it better for me to shoot golden hour with a different film rating? What would be the best way to fix this colour cast?

Click to expand...

I think you should look at examples of 'golden hour portraits' and compare them with your early attempts here to identify the differences. I don't think color is the problem.

Click to expand...

Many of these are digital. I think it’s the film I’m using possibly

Click to expand...

To be blunt, it’s not the film. Portra400 is a purpose designed portrait film and there are endless examples of it being use in a similar manner to the shots below.

As with any photography (film or digital), the first place to look if you’re not happy with your results is your technique, not your gear.

brandon77 said:

brandon77 said:

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I'd say that the main issue is the scanning and processing done by the lab. Portra is the perfect film for this. If you scan the film yourself you will get the most out of it.


If these were shot on a digital camera people would say that you had to do better white balance and or other post processing. The same need is there for scanned film.

brandon77 said:

sybersitizen said:

brandon77 said:

Is it better for me to shoot golden hour with a different film rating? What would be the best way to fix this colour cast?

Click to expand...

I think you should look at examples of 'golden hour portraits' and compare them with your early attempts here to identify the differences. I don't think color is the problem.

Click to expand...

Many of these are digital. I think it’s the film I’m using possibly

brandon77 said:

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

most of the images here are backlit unlike yours

--

Maybe (partially) redundant as several people have given good answers already, but here's my opinion:

If you shoot daylight film with other types of light like indoors, blue hour, golden hour, sunset etc. then you'll get a color cast unless you use filters to compensate during exposure. It's similar to lock the white balance to daylight on digital and use it for everything.

Then the question is: How do you want it too look? Do you want to completely remove "color cast" form a sunset (probably not) or golden hour (maybe)? I'll often remove some color cast, but keep some so the end result reflects how the conditions were. IMO it depends on the situation and your preferences.

I believe that the best time to remove color cast is during scanning. I'll usually adjust the scan preview to get the WB approximately how I want it. Then fine tune it in post processing if necessary. I'll also scan to 16 bit tiff which makes it easier to adjust the scan compared to working on a JPG. If you can scan to something like a RAW-file (possible with som scanners and software) then it's probably better to adjust everything in post processing.

If you have a darkroom and do your own printing then you use filters with the enlarger to achieve the same results.

brandon77 said:

I am currently doing 365 day challenge with film, as I’m trying to work it out.

I shot these two photos below with Portra 400 and it was pretty much golden hour. These were scanned on a frontier and obviously don’t look too great. A couple of questions

Is it better for me to shoot golden hour with a different film rating? What would be the best way to fix this colour cast?

Thanks

Click to expand...

As some have stated, golden hour is golden! I tend to prefer backlit scenes, but don’t recommend this time of day for pleasing colours.

Portra 400 is indeed a bit warm, Portra 160 slightly less so. That said, either are going to look similar here. Fuji Pro400H is a cooler film, but again at golden hour, it’s gonna look yellow.

You can take it in post a bit...here’s a quick example of 30 seconds in Lr on my iPad. Nothing special...but definitely toned down.