Blockchain future

I am the curious type and see that there are some blockchains that focus on storage of the kind that is great for storage. I still don’t like paying a lot for storage services on the cloud. Very overpriced and I don’t feel I have real control.

I generate quite a lot of data with RAW and usually only use some, but keep many many more than I care to develop. While I cull a a lot, there are many I like to save, but not develop.

I see the evolution of storage radically changing with blockchain storage. Typical centralized storage like Dropbox is also super expensive, and they have access to your files, may go bankrupt, get hacked.

While right now this may be more of a topic a developer could have interest, I glimpsed at some of the blockchains for storage, and combined with some other app (or even other blockchains) I see an exciting future for photography itself.

1) Vast amounts of storage at very cheap prices in high performance chains such as filenet

2) Security, nobody can access my files. Not even those storing. And because of multiple copies, nobody can delete.

3) Complete control. I see services that could display if one pays $0.01 cent or something. Replace the ad-based models where we could start paying even a tiny bit for what we use. As free world = we are the clients. but could also be direct revenue for photographers

4) Easy to combine with non fungible tokens. Ie. Make a photo, and easily the full rights, all in the blockchain, transferring copyright made an extremely simple purchase.

5) Of course, authorship, as services that connect (eg. Oracles like Link) can attest proof of location, proof of time and when it was registered. One could save the raw with processing, and output only renderings. Meaning there would be no way for anyone else to be able to prove they made the photo.

I am just HINTING at some of the very very very basic ideas. I think photography will revive in a more noble form, from where the files reside, ownership, market with ultra micro transactions or even big market for selling the originals in any way desired by the author). Note that while anyone can still copy and make illegal digital copies, there are several important differences. I will not make the post long, but one could for eg. authorize versions for display on 3D expositions like Decentraland, etc. all completely streamlined, and 1000 other use cases.

But the biggest roadblock was storage, and while the most basic case is cheap, safe, fast storage of my files on a sovereign medium (Nobody by me can do anything, even see the files much less delete them, unless I say so), the used cases as storage is solved is up to developer-photographers. As I say, there’s million ideas. Like ordering a photo my son never saw be printed when he becomes 40 and delivered in a frame with a note attached to his address (all this is performed by Oracle like services that find the right address, the. The app orders and ships, all this resides in a smart contract within the blockchain...I am explaining these things which sound like science fiction, but no, they can really be programmed to happen like such).

Anyway, I wanted to share these thoughts, even if it’s only very exploratory, that I think something exciting is brewing for photography.

fferreres said:

I am the curious type and see that there are some blockchains that focus on storage of the kind that is great for storage. I still don’t like paying a lot for storage services on the cloud. Very overpriced and I don’t feel I have real control.

I generate quite a lot of data with RAW and usually only use some, but keep many many more than I care to develop. While I cull a a lot, there are many I like to save, but not develop.

I see the evolution of storage radically changing with blockchain storage. Typical centralized storage like Dropbox is also super expensive, and they have access to your files, may go bankrupt, get hacked.

While right now this may be more of a topic a developer could have interest, I glimpsed at some of the blockchains for storage, and combined with some other app (or even other blockchains) I see an exciting future for photography itself.

1) Vast amounts of storage at very cheap prices in high performance chains such as filenet

2) Security, nobody can access my files. Not even those storing. And because of multiple copies, nobody can delete.

3) Complete control. I see services that could display if one pays $0.01 cent or something. Replace the ad-based models where we could start paying even a tiny bit for what we use. As free world = we are the clients. but could also be direct revenue for photographers

4) Easy to combine with non fungible tokens. Ie. Make a photo, and easily the full rights, all in the blockchain, transferring copyright made an extremely simple purchase.

5) Of course, authorship, as services that connect (eg. Oracles like Link) can attest proof of location, proof of time and when it was registered. One could save the raw with processing, and output only renderings. Meaning there would be no way for anyone else to be able to prove they made the photo.

I am just HINTING at some of the very very very basic ideas. I think photography will revive in a more noble form, from where the files reside, ownership, market with ultra micro transactions or even big market for selling the originals in any way desired by the author). Note that while anyone can still copy and make illegal digital copies, there are several important differences. I will not make the post long, but one could for eg. authorize versions for display on 3D expositions like Decentraland, etc. all completely streamlined, and 1000 other use cases.

But the biggest roadblock was storage, and while the most basic case is cheap, safe, fast storage of my files on a sovereign medium (Nobody by me can do anything, even see the files much less delete them, unless I say so), the used cases as storage is solved is up to developer-photographers. As I say, there’s million ideas. Like ordering a photo my son never saw be printed when he becomes 40 and delivered in a frame with a note attached to his address (all this is performed by Oracle like services that find the right address, the. The app orders and ships, all this resides in a smart contract within the blockchain...I am explaining these things which sound like science fiction, but no, they can really be programmed to happen like such).

Anyway, I wanted to share these thoughts, even if it’s only very exploratory, that I think something exciting is brewing for photography.

Click to expand...

I love your thought designs ..

Am interested in the preservation of 'worthless' digital files. I used to watch photographs disappear on dpr as families would unknowingly let subscriptions expire or site policy would change and unused galleries would disappear forever. Was upsetting to watch as the Delete key was pressed.
Is a future I am already invested in. And absolutely agree about exciting. The remark about a more noble form ..yes I think so too.

it needs more thinking, was made happy to see some.

ant

What's a Blockchain? Is that like Blockbuster for photography?

fferreres said:

I am the curious type and see that there are some blockchains that focus on storage of the kind that is great for storage. I still don’t like paying a lot for storage services on the cloud. Very overpriced and I don’t feel I have real control.

Click to expand...

Just because you don't want to pay for storage, why should everyone on the Internet let you use storage on their machines for free? What happens when they decide that they would like to be the ones freeloading on your local disk storage?

fferreres said:

2) Security, nobody can access my files. Not even those storing. And because of multiple copies, nobody can delete.

Click to expand...

Nobody can delete? What keeps the owners of the machines running the freeloading blockchain applications from removing those applications from their machines? The machines belong to them, not to you. If enough owners do this, what guarantees that there will be complete copies of all of the pieces of all of your files?

fferreres said:

I am just HINTING at some of the very very very basic ideas. I think photography will revive in a more noble form, from where the files reside, ownership, market with ultra micro transactions or even big market for selling the originals in any way desired by the author).

Click to expand...

Storage is dirt-cheap now. You can get three 4 TB USB hard drives (one to store original files; two to store backups) for $300. Even if your photo files take 40 MB of space each, that's enough space to store about 100,000 photos (not counting filesystem overhead). So each photo occupies a little under 1/3rd of a cent's worth of disk space.

Amazon S3 cloud storage might cost you a bit more – say, several cents per gigabyte per month for data transfer, storage, and replication fees. If you sell 25 copies of full-size images, but don't make enough money to be able to afford a few cents for cloud storage and data transfer fees, what does that say about your business model? Wouldn't it tend to suggest that there is something wrong with your business that the mere substitution of "free" blockchain storage for cloud storage would not fix?

I think I'm not understanding a few things re: Blockchain and FileNet. We know that blockchain is ideal as an immutable ledger - public or private - perfect for copyright protection, use tracking, and so on. I don't know what you refer to as FileNet - there's a FileNet CMS sold by IBM - that isn't storage, but I suspect you mean some sort of distributed low-cost of free/public storage? (BTW, Blockchain Storage is also an IBM product to store blockchain transactions to confuse terminology even more LOL). Either way someone pays for storage, and multiple copies means multiple times the amount of storage. So maybe I'm just confusing an actual product for a concept you are referencing (do a Google search on FileNet and you'll see what I mean).

In any event, yes, Blockchain is terribly under-applied yet. Un-corruptable public and private ledgers have endless uses - not just financial, and the world hasn't awakened to that fact just yet (pretty sad). I'm working to use it track actions/behaviors of users of content (for users that pre-authorize of course) using hybrid blockchain model. if it can be applied to work with low or no cost distributed storage for media that would be very cool indeed - and quite disruptive for both cost and DRM.

And we shouldn't overlook the fact that every transaction and type of transaction is an utterance (a type of signal), that can be fed into a cognitive engine - and once you ponder that little tidbit it will blow your mind as to what else you can do with all of that knowledge re: asset usage.

MFL

--
The one thing everyone can agree on is that film photography has its negatives. It even has its positives and internegatives.

Tom_N said:

fferreres said:

I am the curious type and see that there are some blockchains that focus on storage of the kind that is great for storage. I still don’t like paying a lot for storage services on the cloud. Very overpriced and I don’t feel I have real control.

Click to expand...

Just because you don't want to pay for storage, why should everyone on the Internet let you use storage on their machines for free? What happens when they decide that they would like to be the ones freeloading on your local disk storage?

Click to expand...

I never say I didn't want to pay for storage. And when I refer to "paying a lot" I mean services like Adobe or Apple's iCloud, not S3-like storage. Besides, the value of having it in the blockchain is not primarily to save money, and there's about zero, zilch free blockchain I know about. Actually, there's not one thing without a price. The only free things are those on "The Cloud" where they guess they will sell my information, steal from me, or clock me and then start to charge me once I am vested in the service.

Tom_N said:

Tom_N said:

2) Security, nobody can access my files. Not even those storing. And because of multiple copies, nobody can delete.

Click to expand...

Nobody can delete? What keeps the owners of the machines running the freeloading blockchain applications from removing those applications from their machines?

Click to expand...

Do yo know what blockchains are? I suspect you don't have the slightest idea.

Tom_N said:

The machines belong to them, not to you. If enough owners do this, what guarantees that there will be complete copies of all of the pieces of all of your files?

Click to expand...

Why don't you read about it? Bitcoin is secured by a bunch of strangers and holds the key to over 1 trillions US dollars. Of course, a 1 Trillion dollar treasure chest for whoever can hack it.

Tom_N said:

Tom_N said:

I am just HINTING at some of the very very very basic ideas. I think photography will revive in a more noble form, from where the files reside, ownership, market with ultra micro transactions or even big market for selling the originals in any way desired by the author).

Click to expand...

Storage is dirt-cheap now. You can get three 4 TB USB hard drives (one to store original files; two to store backups) for $300. Even if your photo files take 40 MB of space each, that's enough space to store about 100,000 photos (not counting filesystem overhead). So each photo occupies a little under 1/3rd of a cent's worth of disk space.

Click to expand...

Tom...you are missing the entire point of using the blockchain for image storage, retrieval and processing. It's as if you hadn't read my post at all and quoted randomly.

Tom_N said:

Amazon S3 cloud storage might cost you a bit more – say, several cents per gigabyte per month for data transfer, storage, and replication fees. If you sell 25 copies of full-size images, but don't make enough money to be able to afford a few cents for cloud storage and data transfer fees, what does that say about your business model?

Click to expand...

I am not a professional photographer. A professional can do almost any service imaginable with photos stored in a blockchain, powered by smart contracts and data Oracles. Actually, the simplest use case is make the RAW a non fungible token. This is why some digital art recently sold for $69 MUSD, where nobody gave a damn about a digital copy of anything until NFTs blockchains came around.

Tom_N said:

Wouldn't it tend to suggest that there is something wrong with your business that the mere substitution of "free" blockchain storage for cloud storage would not fix?

Click to expand...

It's not free. And cloud storage cannot fix anything! It's not about the cloud or not the cloud. Actually, blockchains can and do operate in the cloud. Actually, Netflix storage is built around Inter Planetary File System (IPFS). What the blockchain adds is the security, market and economic layers so I can pay for completely tamper proof and highly available and resilient storage that can be cryptographycally consumed by smart contracts and data oracles, to compose any service I want, under my terms, and not having to trust any third party. And actually, the people that invented IPFS are the same that invented the permissionless blockchain on top of IPFS which is called filecoin. And this is just one such protocol.

Michael Firstlight said:

I think I'm not understanding a few things re: Blockchain and FileNet. We know that blockchain is ideal as an immutable ledger - public or private - perfect for copyright protection, use tracking, and so on.

Click to expand...

Correct.

Michael Firstlight said:

I don't know what you refer to as FileNet - there's a FileNet CMS sold by IBM - that isn't storage, but I suspect you mean some sort of distributed low-cost of free/public storage?

Click to expand...

If I stated FileNet, it was a type. I think I referred to FileCoin as the layer on top of IPFS which creates a ledger to regulate contracts for storage, and adds all the cryptographic infrastructure to connect storage buyer and sellers in a secure, confidential and permission-less way (no third parties).

Michael Firstlight said:

(BTW, Blockchain Storage is also an IBM product to store blockchain transactions to confuse terminology even more LOL). Either way someone pays for storage, and multiple copies means multiple times the amount of storage. So maybe I'm just confusing an actual product for a concept you are referencing (do a Google search on FileNet and you'll see what I mean).

Click to expand...

I used Filecoin as an example. But Can be any other robust blockchain specialized in information storage and retrieval. If you give this beginner intro to FileCoin, you'll get a lot of the answers you seek. Then, you can read more in the FileCoin website, or the other protocols websites (Storj, Blockchain version of BitTorrent, Siacoin, etc).

https://decrypt.co/resources/filecoin

Michael Firstlight said:

In any event, yes, Blockchain is terribly under-applied yet. Un-corruptable public and private ledgers have endless uses - not just financial, and the world hasn't awakened to that fact just yet (pretty sad).

Click to expand...

It's still in it's infancy. We have seen nothing yet. However, the market capitalization of blockchain solutions is about to hit 2 trillion USD. A lot of second an third generation solutions hit the market late last year, and are sky rocketing. While it's extremely speculative market, and we've seen big crashes before, the technology is here to stay, and revolutionize every aspect of the internet. Why? It's not evident at first sight, until it's suddenly so blatantly obvious that it's too late to react.

Michael Firstlight said:

I'm working to use it track actions/behaviors of users of content (for users that pre-authorize of course) using hybrid blockchain model. if it can be applied to work with low or no cost distributed storage for media that would be very cool indeed - and quite disruptive for both cost and DRM.

Click to expand...

Check Filecoin (fully permissionless), Storj (semi decentralized), BotTorrent (blockchain version) or PPIO among a few others. I think blockchain secured storage will skyrocket, because we see see storage demands skyrocketing, but that a staggering amount of companies data centers have been hacked (from Transunion, to Marriot to thousands of large company sites, and millions of smaller ones). Even highly secure government networks have been compromised. The blockchain storage works differently. A hacker would need to hack every single user's secret credentials to achieve that kind of feat, and whoever keeps them safe will never lose their information.

Michael Firstlight said:

And we shouldn't overlook the fact that every transaction and type of transaction is an utterance (a type of signal), that can be fed into a cognitive engine - and once you ponder that little tidbit it will blow your mind as to what else you can do with all of that knowledge re: asset usage.

Click to expand...

It is mind blowing. But at the smart contracts aspect, and then slap in the concept of oracle services (Oracles bridge the gap from information off chain and on chain, and are not related to the company called Oracle. The services I refer to are those that protocols like LINK/MATIC or BAND Protocol broker. When you add those two together, then the brain doesn't just blow, but accelerates to the speed of light to crash against supermassive start about to go supernova orbiting a black hole.

It completely redefines the boundaries of what's feasible with code.

For a starter, the most basic case of all: I predict that before 2025, you will see the first digital RAW image sell for over $1 million dollars.

fferreres said:

...

1) Vast amounts of storage at very cheap prices in high performance chains such as filenet

...

Click to expand...

I doubt "vast"+"very cheap"+"high performance" will happen.

What's the incentive to participate in the "photography blockchain storage"? Right now the BitCoin blockchain is ~300GB and it does not contain data (as in files). If we start storing RAW photos instead of just coins into a blockchain, the storage requirements for each node (and bandwidth) become huge.

PerTulip said:

fferreres said:

...

1) Vast amounts of storage at very cheap prices in high performance chains such as filenet

...

Click to expand...

I doubt "vast"+"very cheap"+"high performance" will happen.

Click to expand...

Yes, but bitcoin is designed to hold a very small amount of things with extreme security, thus you have that GB but safe enough to be a living 1 trillion usd treasure chest open to any attack, and still nothing can break it.

The storage blockchains are designed differently. If you undertstand the bittorrent or IPFS file systems, which are a type of filesystem for infrequent writes and large reads (many things, but especially Media friendly), the main thing you need from the ledger is as a broker of storage contracts.

PerTulip said:

What's the incentive to participate in the "photography blockchain storage"?

Click to expand...

A storage node in AWS or Filecoin or BitTorrent doesn't care if you store photos, videos, backups, logs, etc. Their incentive is that anyone can buy or sell. Think of AirBNB or ebay, it connects buyers and sellers. But it does so in a very clear way, from scratch solving how to be assured a high SLA with trustless partners. It starts with the mechanisms that enable this peer to peer models to thrive and be safe. For example, I can't go an be myself a node on File chain. I need to make a deposit of around $20,000 (in FIL coins) which is what I will lose if I start serving contracts and fail to produce continuous evidence of that I am keeping the files trusted to me in their entirety, on constant basis. If I make mistakes, I am punished with in proportion to the storage I provide. Nodes build reputations over time, j ust like ebay sellers, and if you don't do a good job, you lose a huge lot of money. And as a node, the content that I see is already encrypted, I don't know if it's a random video, or the passwords to a 100 trillion vault, and I cannot know anything about it.

The important part is not the storage part at all. it's that new web services can be built on top of these storage facilities, so me, as client, could know that if the service has any issue, my storage is always safe anyway. Even if the app I am using is closed, I still have access to the raw content. Imagine Flickr goes down...can you still access your files?

Then, there's the new web3 way to build applications. I can't explain this more without whoever is interested reading more. This is where whatever I say will not make sense, until the person curious enough to start reading more about it. The *kind* of thing that can be built is vastly different and unlimited, compared to the current models.

PerTulip said:

Right now the BitCoin blockchain is ~300GB and it does not contain data (as in files). If we start storing RAW photos instead of just coins into a blockchain, the storage requirements for each node (and bandwidth) become huge.

Click to expand...

Right now Filecoin has more storage to fill 10x times the storage needed for all videos on Netflix. I use Filecoin, but I don't advocate it at all. Right now, it's there, and the issue i s that there aren't enough large users as many are just starting to discover them.

We are now reading this. But it will be exciting to see if this is a fad, or if it completely changes what can be done. A new way to compose services that right now it's impossible. This is what envision. Have you ever seen the predictions of the future from 1900?


If instead of talking about the storage, we talk about use cases, then you'd wonder...is this really helped or possible based on services running in blockchains? Why this blockchain fixation. It's not about the blockchains. it's about a new generation of PROTOCOLS on to which to build and exchange information, with security built in to every chain.

Let's take dpreview. It exists because TBL invented the http protocol. You can navigate sites because they all share a common protocol running on top of TCP/IP. Imagine the blockchains not as a fancy expensive ledger, but implementing a protocol, upon top of which others are built, which is how the www became what it is today.

These past 3 and the next 20 years are going to be like a springtime of new protocols, tamper-proof, permissionless, and self-funded. And applications and services can built on top of what the collection of protocols can easily. Storage is one. Storing tokens is another. Executing and enforcing contracts. It really is something of a magnitude most are missing, and doesn't have to be even related to any bitcoin or hyped currency or chain (as I say, there's a huge amount of nonsense mixed, just like in dot com bubble days).

yonnie said:

fferreres said:

I am the curious type and see that there are some blockchains that focus on storage of the kind that is great for storage. I still don’t like paying a lot for storage services on the cloud. Very overpriced and I don’t feel I have real control.

I generate quite a lot of data with RAW and usually only use some, but keep many many more than I care to develop. While I cull a a lot, there are many I like to save, but not develop.

I see the evolution of storage radically changing with blockchain storage. Typical centralized storage like Dropbox is also super expensive, and they have access to your files, may go bankrupt, get hacked.

While right now this may be more of a topic a developer could have interest, I glimpsed at some of the blockchains for storage, and combined with some other app (or even other blockchains) I see an exciting future for photography itself.

1) Vast amounts of storage at very cheap prices in high performance chains such as filenet

2) Security, nobody can access my files. Not even those storing. And because of multiple copies, nobody can delete.

3) Complete control. I see services that could display if one pays $0.01 cent or something. Replace the ad-based models where we could start paying even a tiny bit for what we use. As free world = we are the clients. but could also be direct revenue for photographers

4) Easy to combine with non fungible tokens. Ie. Make a photo, and easily the full rights, all in the blockchain, transferring copyright made an extremely simple purchase.

5) Of course, authorship, as services that connect (eg. Oracles like Link) can attest proof of location, proof of time and when it was registered. One could save the raw with processing, and output only renderings. Meaning there would be no way for anyone else to be able to prove they made the photo.

I am just HINTING at some of the very very very basic ideas. I think photography will revive in a more noble form, from where the files reside, ownership, market with ultra micro transactions or even big market for selling the originals in any way desired by the author). Note that while anyone can still copy and make illegal digital copies, there are several important differences. I will not make the post long, but one could for eg. authorize versions for display on 3D expositions like Decentraland, etc. all completely streamlined, and 1000 other use cases.

But the biggest roadblock was storage, and while the most basic case is cheap, safe, fast storage of my files on a sovereign medium (Nobody by me can do anything, even see the files much less delete them, unless I say so), the used cases as storage is solved is up to developer-photographers. As I say, there’s million ideas. Like ordering a photo my son never saw be printed when he becomes 40 and delivered in a frame with a note attached to his address (all this is performed by Oracle like services that find the right address, the. The app orders and ships, all this resides in a smart contract within the blockchain...I am explaining these things which sound like science fiction, but no, they can really be programmed to happen like such).

Anyway, I wanted to share these thoughts, even if it’s only very exploratory, that I think something exciting is brewing for photography.

Click to expand...

I love your thought designs ..

Am interested in the preservation of 'worthless' digital files. I used to watch photographs disappear on dpr as families would unknowingly let subscriptions expire or site policy would change and unused galleries would disappear forever. Was upsetting to watch as the Delete key was pressed.
Is a future I am already invested in. And absolutely agree about exciting. The remark about a more noble form ..yes I think so too.

it needs more thinking, was made happy to see some.

ant

Click to expand...

ignore my post. I though op was talking about photography and storage.

my mistake

ant

yonnie said:

yonnie said:

fferreres said:

I am the curious type and see that there are some blockchains that focus on storage of the kind that is great for storage. I still don’t like paying a lot for storage services on the cloud. Very overpriced and I don’t feel I have real control.

I generate quite a lot of data with RAW and usually only use some, but keep many many more than I care to develop. While I cull a a lot, there are many I like to save, but not develop.

I see the evolution of storage radically changing with blockchain storage. Typical centralized storage like Dropbox is also super expensive, and they have access to your files, may go bankrupt, get hacked.

While right now this may be more of a topic a developer could have interest, I glimpsed at some of the blockchains for storage, and combined with some other app (or even other blockchains) I see an exciting future for photography itself.

1) Vast amounts of storage at very cheap prices in high performance chains such as filenet

2) Security, nobody can access my files. Not even those storing. And because of multiple copies, nobody can delete.

3) Complete control. I see services that could display if one pays $0.01 cent or something. Replace the ad-based models where we could start paying even a tiny bit for what we use. As free world = we are the clients. but could also be direct revenue for photographers

4) Easy to combine with non fungible tokens. Ie. Make a photo, and easily the full rights, all in the blockchain, transferring copyright made an extremely simple purchase.

5) Of course, authorship, as services that connect (eg. Oracles like Link) can attest proof of location, proof of time and when it was registered. One could save the raw with processing, and output only renderings. Meaning there would be no way for anyone else to be able to prove they made the photo.

I am just HINTING at some of the very very very basic ideas. I think photography will revive in a more noble form, from where the files reside, ownership, market with ultra micro transactions or even big market for selling the originals in any way desired by the author). Note that while anyone can still copy and make illegal digital copies, there are several important differences. I will not make the post long, but one could for eg. authorize versions for display on 3D expositions like Decentraland, etc. all completely streamlined, and 1000 other use cases.

But the biggest roadblock was storage, and while the most basic case is cheap, safe, fast storage of my files on a sovereign medium (Nobody by me can do anything, even see the files much less delete them, unless I say so), the used cases as storage is solved is up to developer-photographers. As I say, there’s million ideas. Like ordering a photo my son never saw be printed when he becomes 40 and delivered in a frame with a note attached to his address (all this is performed by Oracle like services that find the right address, the. The app orders and ships, all this resides in a smart contract within the blockchain...I am explaining these things which sound like science fiction, but no, they can really be programmed to happen like such).

Anyway, I wanted to share these thoughts, even if it’s only very exploratory, that I think something exciting is brewing for photography.

Click to expand...

I love your thought designs ..

Am interested in the preservation of 'worthless' digital files. I used to watch photographs disappear on dpr as families would unknowingly let subscriptions expire or site policy would change and unused galleries would disappear forever. Was upsetting to watch as the Delete key was pressed.
Is a future I am already invested in. And absolutely agree about exciting. The remark about a more noble form ..yes I think so too.

it needs more thinking, was made happy to see some.

ant

Click to expand...

ignore my post. I though op was talking about photography and storage.

my mistake

ant

Click to expand...

It is. The topic is looking far ahead. Actually, one of the first uses would be for a camera maker to certify via cryptographic signature of the owner, who made the photo and exactly where, and creating the entry in the public ledger. Therefore, the RAW would be protected from an authorship perspective from the second it's made. And with 5G, photos could be stored directly to a storage blockchain, as an option within the camera itself. Since blockchain are standard protocols, not some arcane file upload dialog or proprietary patented and locked thing like iCloud and others, it'd be as standard as visiting a webpage is. And any App could consume the storage with my photos if I enabled them so. In this case, the photo app services would come to the users photos, and not the user photos to come to the app.

fferreres said:

I am the curious type and see that there are some blockchains that focus on storage of the kind that is great for storage. I still don’t like paying a lot for storage services on the cloud. Very overpriced and I don’t feel I have real control.

I generate quite a lot of data with RAW and usually only use some, but keep many many more than I care to develop. While I cull a a lot, there are many I like to save, but not develop.

I see the evolution of storage radically changing with blockchain storage. Typical centralized storage like Dropbox is also super expensive, and they have access to your files, may go bankrupt, get hacked.

While right now this may be more of a topic a developer could have interest, I glimpsed at some of the blockchains for storage, and combined with some other app (or even other blockchains) I see an exciting future for photography itself.

1) Vast amounts of storage at very cheap prices in high performance chains such as filenet

2) Security, nobody can access my files. Not even those storing. And because of multiple copies, nobody can delete.

3) Complete control. I see services that could display if one pays $0.01 cent or something. Replace the ad-based models where we could start paying even a tiny bit for what we use. As free world = we are the clients. but could also be direct revenue for photographers

4) Easy to combine with non fungible tokens. Ie. Make a photo, and easily the full rights, all in the blockchain, transferring copyright made an extremely simple purchase.

5) Of course, authorship, as services that connect (eg. Oracles like Link) can attest proof of location, proof of time and when it was registered. One could save the raw with processing, and output only renderings. Meaning there would be no way for anyone else to be able to prove they made the photo.

I am just HINTING at some of the very very very basic ideas. I think photography will revive in a more noble form, from where the files reside, ownership, market with ultra micro transactions or even big market for selling the originals in any way desired by the author). Note that while anyone can still copy and make illegal digital copies, there are several important differences. I will not make the post long, but one could for eg. authorize versions for display on 3D expositions like Decentraland, etc. all completely streamlined, and 1000 other use cases.

But the biggest roadblock was storage, and while the most basic case is cheap, safe, fast storage of my files on a sovereign medium (Nobody by me can do anything, even see the files much less delete them, unless I say so), the used cases as storage is solved is up to developer-photographers. As I say, there’s million ideas. Like ordering a photo my son never saw be printed when he becomes 40 and delivered in a frame with a note attached to his address (all this is performed by Oracle like services that find the right address, the. The app orders and ships, all this resides in a smart contract within the blockchain...I am explaining these things which sound like science fiction, but no, they can really be programmed to happen like such).

Anyway, I wanted to share these thoughts, even if it’s only very exploratory, that I think something exciting is brewing for photography.

Click to expand...

Block chain might be like the steam engine car, something that will lead to something useful. But I think its more akin to radioactive baths for increasing your life span.

1) Cheap storage - done by a virus like tech. Why drop back might make 1 gig of your photos because of the undelete feature 1 gig turns out be thousands of gigs. If eveeyone used it storage space in general would disappear. Current block chain is not scalable.

2) Security - in two hours with little programing skills I developed a theoretical break of block chain Did have to go further because 7 out of my 10 approaches had already been done. Quantam computing is beyond anyone today but not long maybe. The other two approaches are only theories but much more effective than the current hacks. Why it took 7 years to break block chain I do not know, it should have taken at most a few weeks. Google it - I was kind of disappointed I thought I was genius for a bit, They myth of unhackable keept it safe for a bit, but no longer.

3) Could work, but for the current other problems.

4 LIke it, but as 3 problems

5 because of two, hard to hack but hackable, proof of ownership would in some ways be worse

There not science fiction, and quantum may solve some of these problems but currently the drain of electric power of having billions of copies of one file as block chain will do causes more problems that it solves.

PS I don't think quantum will ever come to light. I did quantum logic, the first baby steps of quanta programing in the 90s - and it was a dead end then and I think its dead end now like the perpetual motion machine or changing metals to gold - thought we ACTUALLY can turn any metal to gold its just very expensive - we can make gold for a very long time now :

I wonder how long it will be until geotracking combined with BC will create an immutable record of everywhere we've ever been combined with other associated evidence of what we were doing. I guess we're pretty much there now w/o it, and privacy is already long obsolete, but BC should seal the deal. That doesn't worry me half as much as when someone else would intentionally wreck or threaten to wreck someone else's rep permanently for gain and the record not correctable - many mind-boggling issues involved. No assurance we'd own our own personal records. Moral of the story? Don't do anything you'll ever regret and protect your privacy LOL.

--
The one thing everyone can agree on is that film photography has its negatives. It even has its positives and internegatives.

You could belong to Pbase... Flickr... Smugmug... Zenfolia... etc... IMHO.

fferreres said:

I am the curious type and see that there are some blockchains that focus on storage of the kind that is great for storage. I still don’t like paying a lot for storage services on the cloud. Very overpriced and I don’t feel I have real control.

I generate quite a lot of data with RAW and usually only use some, but keep many many more than I care to develop. While I cull a a lot, there are many I like to save, but not develop.

I see the evolution of storage radically changing with blockchain storage. Typical centralized storage like Dropbox is also super expensive, and they have access to your files, may go bankrupt, get hacked.

While right now this may be more of a topic a developer could have interest, I glimpsed at some of the blockchains for storage, and combined with some other app (or even other blockchains) I see an exciting future for photography itself.

1) Vast amounts of storage at very cheap prices in high performance chains such as filenet

2) Security, nobody can access my files. Not even those storing. And because of multiple copies, nobody can delete.

3) Complete control. I see services that could display if one pays $0.01 cent or something. Replace the ad-based models where we could start paying even a tiny bit for what we use. As free world = we are the clients. but could also be direct revenue for photographers

4) Easy to combine with non fungible tokens. Ie. Make a photo, and easily the full rights, all in the blockchain, transferring copyright made an extremely simple purchase.

5) Of course, authorship, as services that connect (eg. Oracles like Link) can attest proof of location, proof of time and when it was registered. One could save the raw with processing, and output only renderings. Meaning there would be no way for anyone else to be able to prove they made the photo.

I am just HINTING at some of the very very very basic ideas. I think photography will revive in a more noble form, from where the files reside, ownership, market with ultra micro transactions or even big market for selling the originals in any way desired by the author). Note that while anyone can still copy and make illegal digital copies, there are several important differences. I will not make the post long, but one could for eg. authorize versions for display on 3D expositions like Decentraland, etc. all completely streamlined, and 1000 other use cases.

But the biggest roadblock was storage, and while the most basic case is cheap, safe, fast storage of my files on a sovereign medium (Nobody by me can do anything, even see the files much less delete them, unless I say so), the used cases as storage is solved is up to developer-photographers. As I say, there’s million ideas. Like ordering a photo my son never saw be printed when he becomes 40 and delivered in a frame with a note attached to his address (all this is performed by Oracle like services that find the right address, the. The app orders and ships, all this resides in a smart contract within the blockchain...I am explaining these things which sound like science fiction, but no, they can really be programmed to happen like such).

Anyway, I wanted to share these thoughts, even if it’s only very exploratory, that I think something exciting is brewing for photography.

Click to expand...

onlyfreeman said:

What's a Blockchain? Is that like Blockbuster for photography?

Click to expand...

Ff

The problem is that you're not solving anything.

fferreres said:

1) Vast amounts of storage at very cheap prices in high performance chains such as filenet

Click to expand...

Why? Storage is already cheap.

fferreres said:

2) Security, nobody can access my files. Not even those storing. And because of multiple copies, nobody can delete.

Click to expand...

Nobody can access the files on an array in my office either. I already have multiple copies in our main office and a gun safe 30 miles away.

fferreres said:

3) Complete control. I see services that could display if one pays $0.01 cent or something. Replace the ad-based models where we could start paying even a tiny bit for what we use. As free world = we are the clients. but could also be direct revenue for photographers

Click to expand...

Let's say I offered part of my array, put 40T of new drives in, that's $1500 plus the cost of the array I can't use now, plus the bandwidth. That isn't going to be cheap. 1T on a 12T Ironwolf may only be $25, but there is still the cost of the bandwidth. If I amortize that drive over 5 years, then sure, it's $5 per T, but there is still the cost of the bandwidth.

fferreres said:

4) Easy to combine with non fungible tokens. Ie. Make a photo, and easily the full rights, all in the blockchain, transferring copyright made an extremely simple purchase.

Click to expand...

Transferring copyright isn't a problem now, so what problem are you solving? Seems like you're grasping for problems to solve.

To be honest, if someone got my key (which seems to happen regularly on Bitcoin), I'd lose ownership of my entire catalogue, and a back catalogue that is worth 5 figures a year - why would I put it at risk?

So transferring copyright seems like a big red flag to me.

fferreres said:

5) Of course, authorship, as services that connect (eg. Oracles like Link) can attest proof of location, proof of time and when it was registered. One could save the raw with processing, and output only renderings. Meaning there would be no way for anyone else to be able to prove they made the photo.

Click to expand...

I see the value in that, but generally people haven't had that many problems showing ownership of photographs already. I'm sure you can pull out examples where people have lost a case, but it's extremely rare for this to happen. As for processing copies of the raw, again, this isn't a problem today, so what problem are you solving?

fferreres said:

PerTulip said:

What's the incentive to participate in the "photography blockchain storage"?

Click to expand...

A storage node in AWS or Filecoin or BitTorrent doesn't care if you store photos, videos, backups, logs, etc. Their incentive is that anyone can buy or sell. Think of AirBNB or ebay, it connects buyers and sellers. But it does so in a very clear way, from scratch solving how to be assured a high SLA with trustless partners. It starts with the mechanisms that enable this peer to peer models to thrive and be safe. For example, I can't go an be myself a node on File chain. I need to make a deposit of around $20,000 (in FIL coins) which is what I will lose if I start serving contracts and fail to produce continuous evidence of that I am keeping the files trusted to me in their entirety, on constant basis.

Click to expand...

So, for the "privilege" of letting someone use my Internet bandwidth and disk space, I would "need to make a deposit of around $20,000," which I would then forfeit if I failed to offer very high-availability, high-reliability storage service? Given how you complained about the cost of commercial cloud storage in your OP, it's a safe bet to conclude that I would not be well-paid for tying up $20,000 of my savings, putting it at risk, and taking on the burden of competing with Amazon, Google, etc. in my spare time. It is the old game of losing money on every sale and making it up in volume.

fferreres said:

These past 3 and the next 20 years are going to be like a springtime of new protocols, tamper-proof, permissionless, and self-funded. And applications and services can built on top of what the collection of protocols can easily. Storage is one. Storing tokens is another. Executing and enforcing contracts. It really is something of a magnitude most are missing, and doesn't have to be even related to any bitcoin or hyped currency or chain (as I say, there's a huge amount of nonsense mixed, just like in dot com bubble days).

Click to expand...

I think you are right that we will see many new protocols appear in the next 20 years. However, whatever new protocols come along, it is impossible for them to reduce the cost of storage. Storage relies on a storage medium and only by reducing the cost of the storage medium can you reduce the cost of storage.

New protocols may give us better security and reliability, but they will not reduce the cost of storage.

The fact of the matter is that protocols like blockchain are very expensive to implement. Already, Bitcoin (the first use of the blockchain protocol) has become very greedy of resources and consumes as much energy as a small country!

Michael Firstlight said:

I wonder how long it will be until geotracking combined with BC will create an immutable record of everywhere we've ever been combined with other associated evidence of what we were doing. I guess we're pretty much there now w/o it, and privacy is already long obsolete, but BC should seal the deal. That doesn't worry me half as much as when someone else would intentionally wreck or threaten to wreck someone else's rep permanently for gain and the record not correctable - many mind-boggling issues involved. No assurance we'd own our own personal records. Moral of the story? Don't do anything you'll ever regret and protect your privacy LOL.

Click to expand...

Privacy is not obsolete just reserved for the paranoid and tech elite. Must people I konw how have there houses clocked from Google maps and have downloaded there google data


and have taken steps hide confuse and protect there privacy. However it comes with a cost.

Tom_N said:

fferreres said:

PerTulip said:

What's the incentive to participate in the "photography blockchain storage"?

Click to expand...

A storage node in AWS or Filecoin or BitTorrent doesn't care if you store photos, videos, backups, logs, etc. Their incentive is that anyone can buy or sell. Think of AirBNB or ebay, it connects buyers and sellers. But it does so in a very clear way, from scratch solving how to be assured a high SLA with trustless partners. It starts with the mechanisms that enable this peer to peer models to thrive and be safe. For example, I can't go an be myself a node on File chain. I need to make a deposit of around $20,000 (in FIL coins) which is what I will lose if I start serving contracts and fail to produce continuous evidence of that I am keeping the files trusted to me in their entirety, on constant basis.

Click to expand...

So, for the "privilege" of letting someone use my Internet bandwidth and disk space, I would "need to make a deposit of around $20,000," which I would then forfeit if I failed to offer very high-availability, high-reliability storage service? Given how you complained about the cost of commercial cloud storage in your OP, it's a safe bet to conclude that I would not be well-paid for tying up $20,000 of my savings, putting it at risk, and taking on the burden of competing with Amazon, Google, etc. in my spare time. It is the old game of losing money on every sale and making it up in volume.

Click to expand...

You can get block chain for a buck, not 20 k. Bit coin can be bought at 0.0000001 units. Less than that I think its 18 zeros if I remember correctly