Nikon Z Camera Nomenclature ... what does it mean?

A spin-off to a digression on the Tower Semiconductor thread is a debate regarding Nikon nomenclature.

Many people assume the Z7 = D850, based on the sensor. However, based on performance, I think not.

• The Z7 ≠ the D850
• The Z7 < the D850

Curious what others think.

Is the Z6 the mirrorless D750, then what is the Z7?
Nikon's mirrorless "Sony A7" equivalent.

If Nikon comes out w/ a Z8, will this be their mirrorless equivalent to the D850? (Stunning resolution + pro AF ability?)

With a 60 mpx sensor, will DX then become obsolete?

Just thinking out loud, but with Sony's A1 ... will we see a Nikon Z1 (and Canon R1) response?

Or will the Z9 be Nikon's summit (a higher-end response to the Sony A9)?

Thoughts?

They came out with two similar cameras with different resolutions and gave them numbers that suggest are on the top half of the segment but not exactly on top. I think you are reading too much into it. They gave room for a pro body (Z9) and maybe something with higher resolution or a Z9 sensor/performance packed into a smaller body (Z8). It will be interesting to see how the numbering evolves if it's not a new version like the Z6/Z7II, but Nikon usually only has 4 cameras in each format at a time.

RazorSharpWO said:

A spin-off to a digression on the Tower Semiconductor thread is a debate regarding Nikon nomenclature.

Many people assume the Z7 = D850, based on the sensor. However, based on performance, I think not.

• The Z7 ≠ the D850
• The Z7 < the D850

Curious what others think.

Is the Z6 the mirrorless D750, then what is the Z7?
Nikon's mirrorless "Sony A7" equivalent.

If Nikon comes out w/ a Z8, will this be their mirrorless equivalent to the D850? (Stunning resolution + pro AF ability?)

With a 60 mpx sensor, will DX then become obsolete?

Click to expand...

The Z6 is the $2k full frame that competes against the a7iii and R (R6).

The Z7 is essentially the Z6 with the 45MP sensor. The same way the a7R is an a7 with a higher MP sensor.

DX will not be obsolete by virtue that it occupies the sub $1k price bracket, something that they will not do with new full frame releases anytime soon. By new releases I mean they can always discount the Z5 until $999 like what Canon is doing with the RP, but a new Z5 refresh will be above $1k.

Member said:

Just thinking out loud, but with Sony's A1 ... will we see a Nikon Z1 (and Canon R1) response?

Or will the Z9 be Nikon's summit (a higher-end response to the Sony A9)?

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

The Z9 is the direct competitor to the a1, the direct successor to the D6. Honestly there's no point in trying to guess if we're going to get "equivalents" in mirrorless form. From the looks of the Z9, we may very well not. Yes it's not a like-for-like successor but that also means we may not get a like-for-like successor to the D850 either.

If by "stunning resolution" and "pro AF" makes a D850 then the Z7 will eventually be that body once it gets the upgrades we first get with the Z9.

RazorSharpWO said:

A spin-off to a digression on the Tower Semiconductor thread is a debate regarding Nikon nomenclature.

Many people assume the Z7 = D850, based on the sensor. However, based on performance, I think not.

• The Z7 ≠ the D850
• The Z7 < the D850

Curious what others think.

Is the Z6 the mirrorless D750, then what is the Z7?
Nikon's mirrorless "Sony A7" equivalent.

If Nikon comes out w/ a Z8, will this be their mirrorless equivalent to the D850? (Stunning resolution + pro AF ability?)

With a 60 mpx sensor, will DX then become obsolete?

Just thinking out loud, but with Sony's A1 ... will we see a Nikon Z1 (and Canon R1) response?

Or will the Z9 be Nikon's summit (a higher-end response to the Sony A9)?

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

I think this is an exercise in futility. I don't understand the need to arbitrarily create 1:1 mappings between each product.

RazorSharpWO said:

A spin-off to a digression on the Tower Semiconductor thread is a debate regarding Nikon nomenclature.

Many people assume the Z7 = D850, based on the sensor. However, based on performance, I think not.

• The Z7 ≠ the D850
• The Z7 < the D850

Curious what others think.

Is the Z6 the mirrorless D750, then what is the Z7?
Nikon's mirrorless "Sony A7" equivalent.

If Nikon comes out w/ a Z8, will this be their mirrorless equivalent to the D850? (Stunning resolution + pro AF ability?)

With a 60 mpx sensor, will DX then become obsolete?

Just thinking out loud, but with Sony's A1 ... will we see a Nikon Z1 (and Canon R1) response?

Or will the Z9 be Nikon's summit (a higher-end response to the Sony A9)?

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

This is a misconception, Nikon has never said anything about 1:1 from DSLR to mirrorless (they would be smart to not go for that and rather minimise and improve the product line), it's a human flaw to try to find patterns in everything.

For me the Z7 beats the D850 performance wise every day of the week, mainly due to the fact that it can actually focus on a large part of the sensor and not the tiny center frame focusing of the D850 (when I tested it for fun I asked the store manager if it was broken because I was so limited in my focus selection, it had been that long since I last used a DSLR). It also has a superior EVF compared to the OVF and features like face and eye-tracking.
For others the center focus-module of the D850 seems to have the most important thing though. I would've wanted the illuminated buttons though, that is a nice touch.

There is no longer any need for low resolution bodies for the type of things D6 was usually used for, so just as Sony, expect Nikon to combine high resolution with high performance, and Nikon has already said it will be higher performance than the D6, which admittedly doesn't mean that much.

LASR said:

They came out with two similar cameras with different resolutions and gave them numbers that suggest are on the top half of the segment but not exactly on top.

Click to expand...

Yes.

LASR said:

I think you are reading too much into it.

Click to expand...

Probably

LASR said:

They gave room for a pro body (Z9) and maybe something with higher resolution or a Z9 sensor/performance packed into a smaller body (Z8).

Click to expand...

It used to be that single-digits (D3, D4, D5, etc.) were Nikon's best (Canon's too).

Three digits were "semi-pro" or enthusiast (D600, D700, D800), from where advancements changed (D650, D750, D850), etc.

And then four digits were their lowest-end (D3500, D5600, etc.).

LASR said:

It will be interesting to see how the numbering evolves if it's not a new version like the Z6/Z7II, but Nikon usually only has 4 cameras in each format at a time.

Click to expand...

Yes again, very interesting.

I think Nikon will likely develop far more high-end cameras. I am also thinking that, professionally, with the higher-resolutions now also possible to shoot rapidly, that "pro DX" cameras will no longer serve a purpose.

Right now, I use my D500 on my 400mm, because its 1.5x "reach" gives me better images than the Z7 or D850 "cropped" ... all across every possible ISO range. A 60 mpx sensor, however, would "crop-in" better than what the crop-factor would allow.

For this reason, I don't think there's going to be a D500 "mirrorless equivalent"; I think Nikon's "new sensor tech," in the Z9 will render all DSLRs obsolete in performance ... "forcing the hand," as it were, to shake the tree of dedicated DSLR Nikonians to switch to mirrorless.

This has to be Nikon's goal, actually.

Getting back to nomenclature, Canon has the 1Dx III, and Sony just came out w/ the A1 ... while Nikon is coming out with the Z9 [where, before, Sony's A9 (I and II) were this brand's pinnacle].

I am wondering at this point if Nikon's new "Z" nomenclature has anything to do with DSLRs at all, at this point, but is evolving into something completely different.

beatboxa said:

I think this is an exercise in futility. I don't understand the need to arbitrarily create 1:1 mappings between each product.

Click to expand...

I actually agree.

I am beginning to think there is little or no relationship at all, and that there will be a whole new ecosystem of levels.

However, as the original D800 marked the beginning of Nikon's new "base ISO" prowess, I do believe the Z8 will be similar in its "landscape-particular," low-ISO prowess ... also having a better AF system than the Z6/Z7, as the D850 offered.

Time will tell.

My thought is that there doesn't have to be an equivalence between models in the Z range and the D range. Of course there will be lower-end and higher-end models, models designed for different uses, but the gradations don't have to correspond, and actually don't have to correspond as well as they do (that would imply that the gradations of the D series were unimprovable even when moving to a different technology and a changing market).

Nikon DSLRs have 4 grades of FX (D6xx, D7xx, D8xx, Dx) and 4 grades of DX (D3xxx, D5xxx, D7xxx and the D500). People debate whether there will be 1, 2 or 3 grades of DX Z, but nobody expects 4, so it's obvious that we shouldn't expect direct equivalence there. For FF we have Z5 (Z6 with an older sensor and a few cost optimisations, but substantially the same), Z6 and Z7 (which differ only in resolution). I'd argue that the differences between the current Z series are much smaller than the differences between the current FX DSLRs, and hence thinking in terms of equivalence is imprecise. Sure you can order the Z models, same as you can order the Ds, but that doesn't mean that the lowest, next-to-lowest, etc in each series have to be equivalent.

I'd also say it doesn't matter: I don't care about whether the Z6 = D780 or Z7 = D850, I care about which is the more appropriate tool for me. So for example you may argue that better tracking or the presence of menu banks makes the D850 "above" the Z7, but for my usage the more manageable size and more accurate autofocus (for most subjects) makes the Z7 a better choice for me.

The one of your questions I am sure of the answer to though is whether a 60MP FX camera will render DX obsolete: the answer is "no", since that camera will also be very expensive (especially if it also has a Z9-level autofocus system), and so will be aimed at a different market from DX, probably even from the D500. Maybe in 5-6 years, but not yet.

AlanWatson said:

My thought is that there doesn't have to be an equivalence between models in the Z range and the D range. Of course there will be lower-end and higher-end models, models designed for different uses, but the gradations don't have to correspond, and actually don't have to correspond as well as they do (that would imply that the gradations of the D series were unimprovable even when moving to a different technology and a changing market).

Nikon DSLRs have 4 grades of FX (D6xx, D7xx, D8xx, Dx) and 4 grades of DX (D3xxx, D5xxx, D7xxx and the D500). People debate whether there will be 1, 2 or 3 grades of DX Z, but nobody expects 4, so it's obvious that we shouldn't expect direct equivalence there. For FF we have Z5 (Z6 with an older sensor and a few cost optimisations, but substantially the same), Z6 and Z7 (which differ only in resolution). I'd argue that the differences between the current Z series are much smaller than the differences between the current FX DSLRs, and hence thinking in terms of equivalence is imprecise. Sure you can order the Z models, same as you can order the Ds, but that doesn't mean that the lowest, next-to-lowest, etc in each series have to be equivalent.

I'd also say it doesn't matter: I don't care about whether the Z6 = D780 or Z7 = D850, I care about which is the more appropriate tool for me. So for example you may argue that better tracking or the presence of menu banks makes the D850 "above" the Z7, but for my usage the more manageable size and more accurate autofocus (for most subjects) makes the Z7 a better choice for me.

The one of your questions I am sure of the answer to though is whether a 60MP FX camera will render DX obsolete: the answer is "no", since that camera will also be very expensive (especially if it also has a Z9-level autofocus system), and so will be aimed at a different market from DX, probably even from the D500. Maybe in 5-6 years, but not yet.

Click to expand...

All of this makes perfect sense, thanks.

Equivalence is slippery concept when we try comparing the line up of DSLRs and MILCs. This question is distinctly unique to the Greater Nikon Ecosystem. Regardless of the 2 hierarchies, the potential buyer faces the challenges to decide how to buy within a budget. This probably applies more to those investing in MILC from DSLRs and often keeping expensive F glass.

Buyers can be expected to prioritize reliable performance on subjects of choice in their genres. And this applies especially to action genres. Thus which Zed(s) will deliver on BIF, erratic sportsmen etc as reliably as a DSLR?

RazorSharpWO said:

A spin-off to a digression on the Tower Semiconductor thread is a debate regarding Nikon nomenclature.

Many people assume the Z7 = D850, based on the sensor. However, based on performance, I think not.

• The Z7 ≠ the D850
• The Z7 < the D850

Curious what others think.

Click to expand...

Regardless of vagaries of "equivalence", they both deliver equally well on many subjects/and in genres - eg portraits and landscape and macro. Sometimes it's that much simpler / faster with a Z7 to focus with EVF in macro etc

The Z7 and D850 differ greatly in action genres IME. Besides the well known differences in key aspects of AFC, the D850 is vastly superior in allowing almost instant switching between any of < 4 different AF-Modes with AF-On. These expanded Customization capabilities alone makes the D850 worth its price especially these days bought Used

Member said:

Is the Z6 the mirrorless D750, then what is the Z7?

Click to expand...

no - they are wider apart compared to how one both Z7 vs D850 deliver. Again IME, the D780 is closer to D750 in certain aspects but the D780 has improved AFC, and its significant benefits of IQ and much better Liveview thanks to the excellent Z6 sensor IME

Member said:

Nikon's mirrorless "Sony A7" equivalent.

Click to expand...

don't do Sony so no idea ;-)

Member said:

If Nikon comes out w/ a Z8, will this be their mirrorless equivalent to the D850? (Stunning resolution + pro AF ability?)

Click to expand...

Impossible to say yet - but Nikon can be expected to deliver an excellent camera in a Z8: presumably it will be better designed that Z6 II and Z7 II for photographing moving subjects (ie AF and Haptics)

Member said:

With a 60 mpx sensor, will DX then become obsolete?

Click to expand...

No - as said above cost effective <$1000 MILC can be expected to be an important advantage to both Nikon and its more budget centric customer

Member said:

Just thinking out loud, but with Sony's A1 ... will we see a Nikon Z1 (and Canon R1) response?

Or will the Z9 be Nikon's summit (a higher-end response to the Sony A9)?

Click to expand...

It's impossible to say how the Z9 and D6 will compare until tested, but Nikon has hinted Z9's AF will "exceed" that of the D6. There will be more cameras from Nikon post 2021, as tech delivers in more sophisticated AF and sensor features

Member said:

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

RazorSharpWO said:

beatboxa said:

I think this is an exercise in futility. I don't understand the need to arbitrarily create 1:1 mappings between each product.

Click to expand...

I actually agree.

I am beginning to think there is little or no relationship at all, and that there will be a whole new ecosystem of levels.

However, as the original D800 marked the beginning of Nikon's new "base ISO" prowess, I do believe the Z8 will be similar in its "landscape-particular," low-ISO prowess ... also having a better AF system than the Z6/Z7, as the D850 offered.

Time will tell.

Click to expand...

Again, it depends on how you look at it. The same year the D800 came out, the D600 came out; and both have the same base ISO (100) and DR at this base ISO.

The D800 was there to push megapixels. As the D3X did before it, which itself was a branch off of the D3; except the D800's form factor was more aligned to the the D700 before it. So which of these is the D800's "parent"? Both.

The D600 lowered the cost of body build to be similar to that of a D7000; but brought it full frame.

Then, the D810 extended the D800 further. And the D750 extended the body of the D600 with some of the internals shared by the D810 (& D4), and added some improvements (eg. flippy screen, lower-light sensitive AF, and faster functioning) to compete with the Canon 5DIII. Canon eventually branched their 5D into 5DS to compete with the high-resolution D810, while Nikon kept the D750/D780 lower build than Canon's 5DIV.

Later, the D850 extended & married the D810 build & resolution with the D750's speed, making an all-in-one for both resolution and speed. (And even later, the D780 married the D750's form with the Z6's live view, while simultaneously removing things from the D750 like vertical grip option).

The list goes on & on. Everyone is going to look at different aspects. Resolution. Speed. Build. Layout. Grip. Features. Card slots. Screens articulation. VF type. VF Blackout. Mount. Price. etc.

You're not going to find parity, and I do not understand the purpose of attempting to simplify things into arbitrary categories just for the sake of it.

There is no Z8. There might be in the future, and maybe it will be a high-resolution, fast camera like the D850 was. Or maybe that's where Nikon takes the Z7III; and at the same time, they make the Z8 a super high resolution slow camera. Neither of these has anything to do with whether it is a D800 because it's not. It is its own thing, that prioritizes its own things.

More useful than to try to describe a camera in terms of a 10-year-old analog that might be in a similar category (as a sort of indirect, roundabout way to summarize features from that 10-year-old camera) is to just directly discuss what you think the camera will look like. Cut out the arbitrary middle man. Because it will just restrict and confuse the conversation.

Ranking these cameras is a rather shallow exercise.

For my usage, the Z7II bests everything from the D850 to the D5. For the candid and sailing stuff I do a lot of, the AF is superior and the IBIS elevates lenses like the Sigma 135 ART 1.8 and 85mm's variants. It took little time to realize that my D850 had become obsolete across a majority of applications.

But for folks with different requirements, the D850 or D5/D6 are still better picks.

So it's rather impossible to draw straight lines between these models. Sometimes my Fuji X100v is the best camera for the day. Is it the equal of a Z6II with a Sigma 35 ART 1.4? Not when we're out sailing in 25 knots and 8 foots seas....where the smaller camera is better.

So the D850 is gone. I have a Z7II two Z6II's on order (for my production company). I'm messing around with a D5 that I won't keep and trying to resist the Leica Q2 (I chose the X100v over it, but a deal is presenting itself). The Z7II is my favorite, but that's ME and MY needs. I just ordered the Coolpix P1000, mainly to try out for whale watching between San Pedro and Catalina Island. In some respects it well best my much more expensive gear.

So, as anyone can see, the ranking gear vs. gear valuations are purely amateur time....but fun!

Robert

I think you are getting far too deep into camera naming and wanting to put exact labels on everything.

Was the D800 an upgrade of the D700? Was the D750? Neither has the sensor of the D4 body. But I would say that Nikon intends the D750 to be the continued extension of the D7xx line.

My own opinion is that the Z6 and Z7 are intended to fill the same space as the D780 and D850 in the mirrorless lineup. The problem with the Z7 is that Nikon's mirrorless technology isn't quite there yet. The Z7 II is closer than the initial Z7. But neither is really as good yet as the D850.

What will the Z7 III be? I think it will be very close to the current D850. Which leaves the question of what a Z8 would be. And if there is a Z8 how would it be differentiated from a Z7?

Hi,

Can't say about their model designator decision. Except. The R+D group for the Z already used 1-4 in a different series. So, I expected them to begin at 5. But they began at 7 and worked backwards. Ok. Fair enough. I don't expect a 1-4, but only they know for sure.

And Nikon has a history of bouncing about somewhat. Their first DSLR was the D1, but not the D1 y'all think of. They didn't sell it, just showed it off. They did a second pass and now the D became an E and they did sell the E2. And the E3. Then came out with another D1 that didn't follow the same design at all. Completely different. That's the one y'all think of.

As far as the Z7 v D850 goes, I rented both a year ago. Evaluation for a project. I decided against both and went with a medium format instead and that was the correct choice. But. If I had chosen a small format for the job it would have been the D850. It was just a bit better for what I wanted to do with it.

Stan

--
Amateur Photographer
Professional Electronics Development Engineer
Once you start down the DSLR path, forever will it dominate your destiny! Consume
your bank account, it will! Like mine, it did!

Finally with Z Nikon did something systematic with its nomenclature. All the names of (D)SLRs where messy, even with the flag ships, where they would eventually have run out of single digit numbers.

And now instead Canon messed it up where they had it more or less right with the 'mark x' in DSLRs until now. R, Rp, R5, R6: as Capt Willard would say: there is no method at all.

Will be more interesting to see what happens to D3X00, D5X00 and D7X00 lines. Maybe, only one of these in the future, with an even lower priced APS-C Z model?

michaeladawson said:

I think you are getting far too deep into camera naming and wanting to put exact labels on everything.

Was the D800 an upgrade of the D700? Was the D750? Neither has the sensor of the D4 body. But I would say that Nikon intends the D750 to be the continued extension of the D7xx line.

My own opinion is that the Z6 and Z7 are intended to fill the same space as the D780 and D850 in the mirrorless lineup. The problem with the Z7 is that Nikon's mirrorless technology isn't quite there yet. The Z7 II is closer than the initial Z7. But neither is really as good yet as the D850.

Click to expand...

My D850 had occasional issues with AF and required lens tuning, sometimes annoyingly variable with zooms where the issue would be at the long end. Without the full spread of AF points like the Z7II, it also would occasionally fail me. It was LOUD. It left some of my best primes without IBIS. As I've reported, the Sigma 135 ART 1.8 (and many others without VR) rise to new heights when afforded IBIS. For many, this alone is a game changer...honestly, much more so that I ever expected.

Then there's the EVF. I expected to "suffer" with it, yet now I cannot live without it. In practice, what I got out of the Z7II became more consistent than with the D850.

And then there's the dreaded video! Ouch! Good lord, it's fun and the AF makes it a dream. It's such a blast that I've added a pro gimbal to my kit. The D850 was awful by comparison.

So far as the Z glass is concerned, The F glass is visibly inferior. Plus it's IBIS for all. It's just a tremendous leap in IQ potential.

Across the board, for my needs, the contest ended with a fast KO for the D850 lying bloody in the ring. It's single area of superiority? I still prefer how it felt in my hands. Maybe that will change if Nikon EVER ships me my grip. Heck, I can't even get the Coolpix P1000 to ship for my wife's whale watching efforts.

So the question, for some, might be: Will the D850 MKII be able to match the Z7II??? That's a perspective many owners of the Z7II have. For me, it's clearly a superior tool. But I can easily see how someone might view it differently based on their specific needs.

This is why I refuse to make iron clad comparisons. They're just dumb at this point and can only be applied to individual requirements.

Robert

--
"You're gonna need a bigger boat."

Good notes.

My conclusion: Nikon should have moved sooner on mirrorless.

Canon has practicing with baby steps with the EOS-M line, for which there are more models and lenses than I ever imagined there would be.

RazorSharpWO said:

A spin-off to a digression on the Tower Semiconductor thread is a debate regarding Nikon nomenclature.

Many people assume the Z7 = D850, based on the sensor. However, based on performance, I think not.

• The Z7 ≠ the D850
• The Z7 < the D850

Curious what others think.

Is the Z6 the mirrorless D750, then what is the Z7?
Nikon's mirrorless "Sony A7" equivalent.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

Member said:

If Nikon comes out w/ a Z8, will this be their mirrorless equivalent to the D850? (Stunning resolution + pro AF ability?)

Click to expand...

Seems like it.

Member said:

With a 60 mpx sensor, will DX then become obsolete?

Just thinking out loud, but with Sony's A1 ... will we see a Nikon Z1 (and Canon R1) response?

Click to expand...

Probably not for the former (see next item), probably yes for that latter.

Member said:

Or will the Z9 be Nikon's summit (a higher-end response to the Sony A9)?

Click to expand...

Nikon's Z9 seems to be the A1 competitor.

AlanWatson said:

My thought is that there doesn't have to be an equivalence between models in the Z range and the D range.

Click to expand...

That's true, but at some point they'll need to deliver D850 performance (or better) at D850 price (or lower) in a mirrorless body. Otherwise there will be lots of unhappy people.