Tristimulus
Veteran Member
Guess so.
But some have not realized that modern is small and compact. Large and heavy was great yesteryear. Time moves on. Not all humans do. :-D
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Sony A1 price...
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But some have not realized that modern is small and compact. Large and heavy was great yesteryear. Time moves on. Not all humans do. :-D
SQLGuy
Forum Pro
The first full frame (and even, in some cases, APS-H) DSLRs were big because they had to be big. The battery alone from my EOS-1D is 2/3 the size and 2/3 the weight of my A7R2.
If you look back 40 years at Canon pro cameras, you have the New F-1, which is just about the size of the A7R2. Then you add more electronics and built-in drive motors and you get the T90, which is quite a bit bigger. Then bigger motors to support faster shooting, more electronics to handle AF, and you get the even bigger EOS-1V. With newer tech, Canon was just able to cram everything for a 4.1MP APS-H camera into that same body in 2001.
IOW, large and heavy were first because they had to be that big. Then, because that's what the first and best DSLRs looked like, it's what people came to expect.
On the other hand, Toyota learned to make things like the Sequoia and Tundra for the US market. Americans often seem to prefer bigger things... cars, laptops, meals...
Hugo600si
Leading Member
That’s good to know, now I need to find the little shizzles again. Haven’t had one on any of my camera’s since 1988. That said, also never had an issue in the rain and I’ve used minolta and Sony forever. Guess I’ve been lucky, and I don’t like rain much to begin with.
theoverratedphotog
Senior Member
Nah, Nikon and Canon's designs are pin-based designs which don't have this issue. The issues pointed to above are more related to long term corrosion of the pins when exposed to the elements over an extended period of time. This would occur on the Sony as well.
Where Sony differs is they incorporated a full digital port which I assume can probably power the digital microphone as well. While this is great, it also compromises weather sealing for a requirement which has limited application from a user base perspective.
Where Sony differs is they incorporated a full digital port which I assume can probably power the digital microphone as well. While this is great, it also compromises weather sealing for a requirement which has limited application from a user base perspective.
SQLGuy
Forum Pro
I would say more, nah, this is a minor problem that has a simple solution. It's not the solution you want, though.
I would suggest you try a bit of dielectric grease on the hot shoe, since using the cover is difficult for you and you apparently have had problems with a wet hot shoe causing unsupported accessory warnings.
BrentSchumer
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theoverratedphotog
Senior Member
The issue isn't the hotshoe itself, its just one reflection of a number of issues with Sony's approach to pro-market that I don't agree with. They have this one size fits all approach for bodies and that doesn't work. Different photographers have different priorities. Sony thinks putting pro specs in the same body makes it a pro camera and that's fundamental flaw.
If I take lenses as an example, Grandpa Joe who travels wants to use a 24-105 or the 28-200 instead of a 24-70 because size is important, and quality is acceptable. Grandpa Joe doesn't care if the buttons are small because it means he has a small camera. He isn't forced to be outside when the weather is crap because he has the choice to go inside when that happens.
If you're shooting sports with a 400 f/2.8, size is less of an issue. You want big buttons for gloves, good weatherproofing etc. You also don't want to accidentally push buttons so you want them large so they work with gloves but recessed. You want settings to be readily available but not in a way that you can bump a button and have a change. Small cameras compromise this (along with weather sealing).
So ultimately they now have a camera that has pro specs, is too expensive for the vast majority of amateurs, but has an amateur form factor.
theoverratedphotog
Senior Member
lol...so you're saying there is an issue, which other brands don't have, but its the users responsibility to fix it with Sony...on a $6500 camera when weather proofing is a core requirement for pro work...and by pointing it out, users are doing so purely for forum tangential attacks?
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that...
SQLGuy
Forum Pro
Has it actually been a problem for you?
But you think Grandpa Joe is going to buy an A1? Not all Canons have super weather sealing either. I had to repair water damage on one of my 5Ds for example. So, no, I think you're involving this Grandpa Joe person who's not in the market for a pro camera and his imagined experiences with enthusiast cameras from Sony... or Canon, or whoever, are not relevant here.
Interesting theory. Have you stood an A9 and an EOS 1DXIII side by side and compared the sizes of the buttons? They're actually pretty similar, both in size and in spacing. The 1D has more buttons, though. The main ones on it that are noticeably bigger are the playback/review oriented ones.
I always hated the two buttons to change Mode on my 1D. But I'm not a pro. Pros might feel differently.... at least some of them.
But has been designed while working with pros, and apparently taking their feedback. Sony has been posting pretty good profits lately. Nikon seems to be going down in flames. Sales and adoption will tell whether you, me, or Sony's PMs know better what they should be making.
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A7R2 with SEL2470Z and a number of adapted lenses (Canon FD, Minolta AF, Canon EF, Leica, Nikon...); A7R converted to IR.
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theoverratedphotog
Senior Member
Yes it has. I was switching between shooting with and without flash in the rain and had to stop using flash. I switched to my backup body and a second trigger.
So by your own admission, the requirements for grandpa joe are different to pro, and yet, yet, Sony provides exactly the same body size for both? You're contradicting yourself
There are two issues. The canon and Nikon are more recessed into the body, but larger so you can still get access to them. You'll also notice that its hard to accidentally bump buttons.
I'd call bull on the designed with pros. Ergonomics and usability have been the single biggest complaint about Sony (every publication, every review - the menu systems, the grip) and yet, Sony only just changed the menu system and made the grip slightly deeper on the A9ii and A7riv.
If they were really designing with pros, that would have changed ages ago. Many issues existed on the A9 and A9ii (banding as an example which would have been identified by pros very quickly. The people I know who are sponsored by Sony don't get told about the gear until the day before release if its a major release by Sony. That's not testing with pros.
They are a great technology manufacturer but ergonomics and usability aren't their strength.
FrenchKiss78
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SQLGuy
Forum Pro
Right. And if you had read that article I posted about the Nikon hot shoes, you have seen that non-working flashes with wet hot shoes was the same problem. If you were switching back and forth, why did you remove the trigger instead of just leaving it in the shoe and turning it off? Or was the trigger too water sensitive too?
Nope. As I've pointed out many times, the A1 is not the same body as the others. DPReview also mentions it in their first impressions hands on. Second, body size is not pro requirement, even though you really want it to be. You want to claim that Sony pro bodies can't be used in the rain, but Sony Pro Support tells A9 users they're covered.
Not on my 1D. The top left buttons are much smaller and stick out a lot. Having to use them in combination is not my preferred type of user interface. I have had no problems with accidentally bumping buttons on any of my Sony bodies, except for the Movie button on the NEX-7. That thing drove me nuts, even though it was recessed, and I was very happy when Sony added disabling it as an option in a firmware update. I have seen a few people complain about accidentally moving the EC dial. I may have done that once or twice myself, though usually I think I simply forgot to rezero it. Anyway, they have a toggleable lock for that on the A9II and A1.
Which button(s) do you find yourself accidentally engaging on which Sony body?
I can't argue with you about Sony's work with professionals. Sony says they have been since the release of the original A9. Their partnership with AP would lead me to expect them to get some feedback from there as well. You're not convinced, though. Not much more more to say about that unless some pros come forward to tell us more or maybe Sony posts more details about their development processes. They have done things like that in the past. One that comes to mind is the SEL55F18, where they posted an article about the lead engineer who designed it, and a bit about how it went from initial ideas to production.
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A7R2 with SEL2470Z and a number of adapted lenses (Canon FD, Minolta AF, Canon EF, Leica, Nikon...); A7R converted to IR.
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M
Malling
Guest
There are way to many odd theories going on, firstly Nikon and Canon pro where not big and had nice roomy grip because of user demands, they where big because of the limitations of the technology of that time. Buttons where bigger because that was how on the shelf buttons looked like. These cameras where big because the seize of batteries, cards, slots, plugs and batteries in the addition to needing to have a mirror inside meant that these could not be anything else than a monstrosity, manufacturers simply put had no other choice. The camera needed a bigger and better grip simply because it otherwise would be a big unhandy heavy brick you simply could not hold onto, so they manufacturers where forced into designing grips so you could actually hold the bloody thing somewhat without to many problems.
Some people getting use to that thinks that’s how they should look like, but it just isn’t so. If you look at back in time pro camera did not have such a “good” grip, so it tells you rather precisely why it came into existence.
The newest generation pro have all pretty much all small buttons. Yeah sure some of the buttons on Canon are recessed, but honestly I heard just as many complaining about it as some who thought it where a nice idea, I’m not convinced it will find its way to the R1 simply because of space restrictions and not everyone raving about it.
Nikon placed the buttons on the same side with closly sticking together and not recessed, but when Sony dos the same thing on a pro it’s horrible. I never ever heard a pro complaining about it on a Nikon. But it seems like some none pro need to find something to complain about.
And please stop over exaggerating the Canon Ibis canon Ibis has 5 or below on most lenses, 10 of them has 6-8 stop but that’s only according to the manufacturer, eg. test results from own labs not reality, not at all focal length, not at all aperture or in every situations, it’s one big marketing gimmick that states in best possible situations. I’m not saying it isn’t better then Sony, that quite frankly could be better, but I truly doubt by very much in the real world scenarios outside the fake reality of a lab or marketing room.
the bird eye, yeah no one knows how good or bad it is, but it’s hardly the selling point of this camera anyway, secondly Sony has proved long time ago to work great with birds in motion, I’ve yet to convinced about Canon with anything in rapid motions without noticeable distortion. This camera is meant for action at high resolution first and foremost, how good it will do that time will tell.
But people seems to be building up ideas how badly and overpriced it is without ever holding one...
Some people getting use to that thinks that’s how they should look like, but it just isn’t so. If you look at back in time pro camera did not have such a “good” grip, so it tells you rather precisely why it came into existence.
The newest generation pro have all pretty much all small buttons. Yeah sure some of the buttons on Canon are recessed, but honestly I heard just as many complaining about it as some who thought it where a nice idea, I’m not convinced it will find its way to the R1 simply because of space restrictions and not everyone raving about it.
Nikon placed the buttons on the same side with closly sticking together and not recessed, but when Sony dos the same thing on a pro it’s horrible. I never ever heard a pro complaining about it on a Nikon. But it seems like some none pro need to find something to complain about.
And please stop over exaggerating the Canon Ibis canon Ibis has 5 or below on most lenses, 10 of them has 6-8 stop but that’s only according to the manufacturer, eg. test results from own labs not reality, not at all focal length, not at all aperture or in every situations, it’s one big marketing gimmick that states in best possible situations. I’m not saying it isn’t better then Sony, that quite frankly could be better, but I truly doubt by very much in the real world scenarios outside the fake reality of a lab or marketing room.
the bird eye, yeah no one knows how good or bad it is, but it’s hardly the selling point of this camera anyway, secondly Sony has proved long time ago to work great with birds in motion, I’ve yet to convinced about Canon with anything in rapid motions without noticeable distortion. This camera is meant for action at high resolution first and foremost, how good it will do that time will tell.
But people seems to be building up ideas how badly and overpriced it is without ever holding one...
theoverratedphotog
Senior Member
It'll be 2 years before we see the impact of the AP partnership if it is feedback from field testing. Not even the Sony Ambassadors who work for Sony had access to this camera due to the risk of leaks. They were sent the camera on the day of the announcement.
The AP has been using Sony gear for years now, Sony used their feedback when designing the a1.
"AP video journalist Bram Janssen works in Niger using Sony equipment, June 5, 2018. (AP Photo)" https://blog.ap.org/announcements/new-sony-gear-a-game-changer
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BrentSchumer
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At the end of the day, people will complain on forums for entertainment and Sony will sell a ton of A1s. And the world will go on.
Jonneymendoza2
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During a pandemic where most toggers cant shoot and losing there jobs?
Commercial shoots are still allowed in many places and press photographers are still going.
I wouldn't call this a wedding or portrait camera.
The pre-order thread for this camera is up to 32 pages on FM, in part because of the BIF people.
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www.fredmiranda.com
It's gonna be a big success, just like the a9/a9ii.
Tristimulus
Veteran Member
They will sell a lot A1 cameras - minus one! :-D
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