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LeicaEye

LeicaEye

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We spend thousands (money wise) on cameras/lenses that can effectively show a hair on a gnats bum - I shoot Raw, but when shown on the DPR website the image becomes a jpeg.. How can the full range of said image really be appreciated? - L
 
How does shooting raw give you more detail?
 
Leica Eye said:
markyboy81 said:
How does shooting raw give you more detail?
Click to expand...
The Raw file contains far more info - jpeg the info is compressed .. L
Click to expand...
For the most part the compression is not noticeable. That's the way jpeg was designed.

To view a raw file it first has to be rendered into some colour space and bit depth. That is when the usable information is lost, not during the compression into jpeg.

To be able to view more of the information in the raw file, you need to use a rendering which shows more of the information, typically fancy tone mapping. HDR is one sort of such tone mapping.

Again, once you've rendered it, you can then deliver it as a jpeg, and the conversion to jpeg should (ideally) lose no noticeable information from the rendering.

To many people are unnecessarily, and irrationally, scared of jpeg. Jpeg compression is usually not the issue.
 
Last edited:
markyboy81 said:
Leica Eye said:
markyboy81 said:
Leica Eye said:
markyboy81 said:
How does shooting raw give you more detail?
Click to expand...
The Raw file contains far more info - jpeg the info is compressed .. L
Click to expand...
Info, yes, detail, I don't think so.

If the camera/lens can show the hairs on a gnat's bum it will do this perfectly well as a JPEG.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I totally agree with you, jpegs do deteriorate when regularly opened. L
Click to expand...
They don't deteriorate when they are simply opened. But they are lossy so will degrade if you keep editing them over and over again.
Click to expand...
My turn to buy the Donuts,, Regards, L
 
markyboy81 said:
Info, yes, detail, I don't think so.

If the camera/lens can show the hairs on a gnat's bum it will do this perfectly well as a JPEG.
Click to expand...
A camera body that is doing a lot of noise reduction in the JPG conversion can reduce detail. Very high JPG compression can also reduce detail but I doubt if any cameras have settings for this much compression even though editing software certainly can do it.
 
LeicaEye said:
I shoot Raw, but when shown on the DPR website the image becomes a jpeg.. How can the full range of said image really be appreciated? - L
Click to expand...
A RAW file cannot be directly viewed. If you are viewing a RAW file on your camera's screen, or on your computer, you are actually viewing a conversion to JPG or some other viewable format. If you want to preserve the full range of the RAW file then you have to do the conversion yourself from RAW to JPG, or RAW to TIFF. We get into frequent arguments here about RAW vs JPG. What is usually missed is that every RAW file has to be converted to a viewable format, either by software in the camera or by software on the computer which can be guided by the photographer. So you guide the conversion to capture the range of information that you want to capture.
 
bjn70 said:
bjn70 said:
I shoot Raw, but when shown on the DPR website the image becomes a jpeg.. How can the full range of said image really be appreciated? - L
Click to expand...
A RAW file cannot be directly viewed. If you are viewing a RAW file on your camera's screen, or on your computer, you are actually viewing a conversion to JPG or some other viewable format. If you want to preserve the full range of the RAW file then you have to do the conversion yourself from RAW to JPG, or RAW to TIFF. We get into frequent arguments here about RAW vs JPG. What is usually missed is that every RAW file has to be converted to a viewable format, either by software in the camera or by software on the computer which can be guided by the photographer. So you guide the conversion to capture the range of information that you want to capture.
Click to expand...
I agree with you and I do understand the Raw-jpeg scenario. My question was - the images we see on the DPR site, are obviously jpeg, therefore missing some details (however small) due to compression.. L
 
Leica Eye said:
bjn70 said:
LeicaEye said:
I shoot Raw, but when shown on the DPR website the image becomes a jpeg.. How can the full range of said image really be appreciated? - L
Click to expand...
A RAW file cannot be directly viewed. If you are viewing a RAW file on your camera's screen, or on your computer, you are actually viewing a conversion to JPG or some other viewable format. If you want to preserve the full range of the RAW file then you have to do the conversion yourself from RAW to JPG, or RAW to TIFF. We get into frequent arguments here about RAW vs JPG. What is usually missed is that every RAW file has to be converted to a viewable format, either by software in the camera or by software on the computer which can be guided by the photographer. So you guide the conversion to capture the range of information that you want to capture.
Click to expand...
I agree with you and I do understand the Raw-jpeg scenario. My question was - the images we see on the DPR site, are obviously jpeg, therefore missing some details (however small) due to compression.. L
Click to expand...
 
Leica Eye said:
bjn70 said:
LeicaEye said:
I shoot Raw, but when shown on the DPR website the image becomes a jpeg.. How can the full range of said image really be appreciated? - L
Click to expand...
A RAW file cannot be directly viewed. If you are viewing a RAW file on your camera's screen, or on your computer, you are actually viewing a conversion to JPG or some other viewable format. If you want to preserve the full range of the RAW file then you have to do the conversion yourself from RAW to JPG, or RAW to TIFF. We get into frequent arguments here about RAW vs JPG. What is usually missed is that every RAW file has to be converted to a viewable format, either by software in the camera or by software on the computer which can be guided by the photographer. So you guide the conversion to capture the range of information that you want to capture.
Click to expand...
I agree with you and I do understand the Raw-jpeg scenario. My question was - the images we see on the DPR site, are obviously jpeg, therefore missing some details (however small) due to compression.. L
Click to expand...
Unless you're using unreasonably high compression, you probably don't lose any detail. The errors introduced by jpeg compression tend to be small changes in colour. Most changes introduced by jpeg tend to be one count in one colour channel.
 
Leica Eye said:
jpegs do deteriorate when regularly opened.
Click to expand...
That is not even close to being true.

I can open a jpeg 1,000,000 times and there will be no degradation whatsoever after the millionth opening.

It's only when you save to a jpeg that you might have degradation.
 
Leica Eye said:
.....the images we see on the DPR site, are obviously jpeg, ....
Click to expand...
That is also not even close to being true.

You can upload PNG files to DPR.

Perhaps consider getting your facts straight before posting.

This is a PNG file.



c28b05e5718c446782d39a82ef34bfbb.jpg.png
 
Last edited:
Leica Eye said:
markyboy81 said:
Leica Eye said:
markyboy81 said:
How does shooting raw give you more detail?
Click to expand...
The Raw file contains far more info - jpeg the info is compressed .. L
Click to expand...
Info, yes, detail, I don't think so.

If the camera/lens can show the hairs on a gnat's bum it will do this perfectly well as a JPEG.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I totally agree with you, jpegs do deteriorate when regularly opened. L
Click to expand...
That's the most bizarre statement I've ever read on DPR!

jpegs do deteriorate when they get recompressed, not just opened. E.g. you view a jpeg on your screen, do a screen grab and create another jpeg from the screenshot. This is what happens when people repost multiple times on Instagram.
 
Leica Eye said:
We spend thousands (money wise) on cameras/lenses that can effectively show a hair on a gnats bum - I shoot Raw, but when shown on the DPR website the image becomes a jpeg.. How can the full range of said image really be appreciated? - L
Click to expand...
Raw is for greater editing flexibility. A JPG is fine to display any single instant in the editing timeline.
 
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