SATA HDD advice please

TonyGamble said:

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TonyGamble said:

Another fake is due to Amazon taking clad external USB devices and removing the covering so people think they are buying a SATA to fit inside a PC.

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I've been inside Amazon UK warehouses and never seen any electronics re-work operations. Can you expand on what you have described?

No.

TonyGamble said:

I'm looking for a 4tb HDD to put in an external SATA drive caddy.

I used to buy through Amazon but the reviews seem to be showing recently a tendency to offer fakes. It seems the biggest problem comes from offering 'cmr' and selling drives that are 'smr' - and apparently far less effective. I am not a techie so am not sure what the problem is that folk are getting so annoyed about.

Another fake is due to Amazon taking clad external USB devices and removing the covering so people think they are buying a SATA to fit inside a PC.

I'm in the UK so need suggestions that can be sourced locally, please.

Tony

London UK

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I've never had any problem with anything despatched from and sold by Amazon UK - they also have a very easy to use returns process if you aren't happy with what you get.

To the two replies so far.

Read the customer reviews. I did. Yes, they will take things back but if you are not getting what you see in the listing it is a waste of time and effort.

According to the people who buy a lot drive said to be CMR in the listing and ends up with SMR in the box.

According to Amazon customers there are folk around who are buying external HDDs and taking the covers off to sell them as SATAs. I am not saying it is done in an Amazon warehouse. But it is happening.

As the OP can I ask that messages are directed to suggestions and not an attempt to defend Amazon. I buy something every day from them. I like them. But I don't like what their customers say about the HDDs they sell.

Tony

TonyGamble said:

I'm in the UK so need suggestions that can be sourced locally, please.

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I don't know if Newegg can be sourced from the UK, but it is a very popular place to buy computer parts:

TonyGamble said:

I'm looking for a 4tb HDD to put in an external SATA drive caddy.

I used to buy through Amazon but the reviews seem to be showing recently a tendency to offer fakes. It seems the biggest problem comes from offering 'cmr' and selling drives that are 'smr' - and apparently far less effective. I am not a techie so am not sure what the problem is that folk are getting so annoyed about.
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I have not been very successful in getting any information, reliable or otherwise, that identifies which drives are CMR and which are SMR. What I have been able to find (like Western Digital's list from April of last year) usually has been at least several months old and often is the same information I've seen elsewhere. It would be nice if there was a requirement, or standard, to clearly include this information in the specifications list for HDDs, external as well as internal.

I just went to WD's website and looked up the 4TB Black 2.5" external hard drive and there is no information at all about whether it is CMR or SMR. But the list I referenced above shows that only the 500GB (and below) is CMR, shows the 1TB as SMR, doesn't show what the 2TB is, doesn't even list the 4TB at all . . .

TonyGamble said:

Another fake is due to Amazon taking clad external USB devices and removing the covering so people think they are buying a SATA to fit inside a PC.

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Even if this is true (and I'm very skeptical, I see no profit for Amazon in investing the time and effort to do this), I'm not sure I see why you'd have an issue with it. If you do your research and decide upon manufacturer MMMM's disk type TTTTT, you place your order and get your drive. If you don't receive MMMM of type TTTTT, you return it. What does it matter whether the thing was in an external enclosure?

I understand the issue with buying a drive in an enclosure because there's no assurance as to what drive is going to be inside. When you buy a WD enclosure they make no claim as to the drive model number you're getting. But when you buy a bare drive you get the bare drive and you can see what it is. Unless you're going to embellish your story with a claim that they're removing and swapping the product labels on the bare drives themselves.

Now there are a lot of sellers that peddle their products through Amazon and some of them may very well have shady practices. But that's why you check the listing carefully and choose a seller you can trust. I've never had any issues with a product that's "sold by Amazon".

"Even if this is true (and I'm very skeptical, I see no profit for Amazon in investing the time and effort to do this),"

It's to do with the warranty. Bare Bones HDDs that builders put into their PC's have a price based on a longer warranty than the man in the street who buys one in a snazzy black plastic box and works with USB.

Anyone who looked at the Amazon UK customer reviews for, say a Seagate 4tb SATA HDD would find more grumbles than plaudits.

TonyGamble said:

"Even if this is true (and I'm very skeptical, I see no profit for Amazon in investing the time and effort to do this),"

It's to do with the warranty. Bare Bones HDDs that builders put into their PC's have a price based on a longer warranty than the man in the street who buys one in a snazzy black plastic box and works with USB.

Anyone who looked at the Amazon UK customer reviews for, say a Seagate 4tb SATA HDD would find more grumbles than plaudits.

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And are those grumbles based on drives despatched from and sold by Amazon?

And are those grumbles based on drives despatched from and sold by Amazon?

Ah, I see what you are getting at.

Problem is there is not a filter to cull out the others.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD-Inch-In...ital&rnid=1632651031&rps=1&s=computers&sr=1-2

Look at the first seven reviews and all are complaints apart from the first one.

And this is sold by Amazon

TonyGamble said:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD-Inch-In...ital&rnid=1632651031&rps=1&s=computers&sr=1-2

Look at the first seven reviews and all are complaints apart from the first one.

And this is sold by Amazon

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Those reviewers all seem to be specifically complaining about the fact this this is a SMR drive. That's not a knock on Amazon. It's not even a knock about the drive. It's a knock about the recording technology. Anyone who doesn't want this technology ought not to buy this drive. If someone sells you a stick shift car and you can't drive a stick shift, it's not the seller's fault as long as they didn't misrepresent what they're selling you.

I agree that there has been a lot of obfuscation about which drives record with which strategies, but the general game plan remains unchanged - do your research to find the drive you want, and then find a seller who's selling that specific drive model.

Tony, your example drive from Amazon was a 4TB, 3.5 inch SATA drive so assuming that's precisely what you're after I suggest one of the ones from Ebuyer on this page:


JB

TonyGamble said:

And are those grumbles based on drives despatched from and sold by Amazon?

Ah, I see what you are getting at.

Problem is there is not a filter to cull out the others.

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https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?keywords...nid=419151031&ts_id=430527031&ref=sr_nr_p_6_4

--
Patco
A photograph is more than a bunch of pixels.

TonyGamble said:

I'm looking for a 4tb HDD to put in an external SATA drive caddy.

I used to buy through Amazon but the reviews seem to be showing recently a tendency to offer fakes. It seems the biggest problem comes from offering 'cmr' and selling drives that are 'smr' - and apparently far less effective. I am not a techie so am not sure what the problem is that folk are getting so annoyed about.

Another fake is due to Amazon taking clad external USB devices and removing the covering so people think they are buying a SATA to fit inside a PC.

Click to expand...

The WD Black 4TB is a CMR drive according to WD. Is a 7200 rpm HDD.

Western Digital Comes Clean, Shares Which Hard Drives Use SMR

On amazon US for $149.99. Not sure if available in UK or price in UK.

Sky

skyglider said:

The WD Black 4TB is a CMR drive according to WD. Is a 7200 rpm HDD.

Western Digital Comes Clean, Shares Which Hard Drives Use SMR

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You've gotta be really careful when you talk about drive models. "WD Black 4TB" is a generic description of WD's drives, they can change the drive technology and still fit it under the same description. What you need to key on is the specific model number of the drive.

For example, according to this spec sheet, the WD4005FZBX uses CMR. It's quite possible for them to supercede this with a newer model that uses SMR, perhaps something like (and this is a totally random number that I made up) "WD4005FZSX", yet still bill it as a "WD Black 4TB" drive.

Finding the specific and exact model number in the seller's description is your assurance that the drive you're buying matches the spec sheet that shows you it's a CMR drive.

Sean Nelson said:

skyglider said:

The WD Black 4TB is a CMR drive according to WD. Is a 7200 rpm HDD.

Western Digital Comes Clean, Shares Which Hard Drives Use SMR

Click to expand...

You've gotta be really careful when you talk about drive models. "WD Black 4TB" is a generic description of WD's drives, they can change the drive technology and still fit it under the same description. What you need to key on is the specific model number of the drive.

For example, according to this spec sheet, the WD4005FZBX uses CMR. It's quite possible for them to supercede this with a newer model that uses SMR, perhaps something like (and this is a totally random number that I made up) "WD4005FZSX", yet still bill it as a "WD Black 4TB" drive.

Finding the specific and exact model number in the seller's description is your assurance that the drive you're buying matches the spec sheet that shows you it's a CMR drive.

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So WD did not really come clean with which drives use SMR.
Good to know.

Thanks,
Sky

skyglider said:

Sean Nelson said:

skyglider said:

The WD Black 4TB is a CMR drive according to WD. Is a 7200 rpm HDD.

Western Digital Comes Clean, Shares Which Hard Drives Use SMR

Click to expand...

You've gotta be really careful when you talk about drive models. "WD Black 4TB" is a generic description of WD's drives, they can change the drive technology and still fit it under the same description. What you need to key on is the specific model number of the drive.

Click to expand...

So WD did not really come clean with which drives use SMR.

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On the contrary, you can see the information in their spec sheets. You have to ignore the marketing hype (which includes nomenclature like "Blue", "Black", etc.) and ferret out the technical details. It has ever been thus, not just for disk drives but for all technical products.

TonyGamble said:

To the two replies so far.

Read the customer reviews. I did. Yes, they will take things back but if you are not getting what you see in the listing it is a waste of time and effort.

According to the people who buy a lot drive said to be CMR in the listing and ends up with SMR in the box.

According to Amazon customers there are folk around who are buying external HDDs and taking the covers off to sell them as SATAs. I am not saying it is done in an Amazon warehouse. But it is happening.

As the OP can I ask that messages are directed to suggestions and not an attempt to defend Amazon. I buy something every day from them. I like them. But I don't like what their customers say about the HDDs they sell.

Tony

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This is what you need. I bought two from amazon uk. The proper stuff....