Reading mode: Light Dark

How do I fix natural and artificial light mix white balance?

Go to last post
B

Brett8883

Leading Member
Messages
944
Reaction score
346
I am not sure if this is a technique issue or an editing issue so I decided to ask this here.



I took this photo yesterday for a client and I can't quite seem to get the white balance right hope you can help me figure out how I can fix this in the future.



d550191b791f4e2aababaf614e28aff4.jpg

You can see here the camera is facing away from a full glass exterior wall and there is a skylight up above. Most of the light is natural here. I set my white balance in camera using a gray card, I took a test shot with the gray card in frame so I could double check in post, and I even profiled the colors with the rite color checker passport.

As you can see the lights still look very yellow but the walls and everything else look fine. It did not look like this in person. The lights look white in person.

When I try to cool off the white balance in everything looks blue besides the lights. I ended up reducing the saturation for yellows but that effects some other things and it doesn't look quite right.

A while back I took almost the same photo but at night so you can see how it looks in person. Thats what the lights look like to my eyes.



View attachment 7ebd296a82a341889dcf7689b0cb12aa.jpg

So I can only assume the problem is the natural light coming in and raising the white balance of everything but the lights.

In this situation what am I supposed to do? Do I leave it like it is? Do I do a selective edit based on luminosity? What would people have done before photoshop to fix this if anything?



Thanks so much!
 
Brett8883 said:
In this situation what am I supposed to do?
Click to expand...
How about not shooting it during the day? The color of the night shot looks fine, and I see no particular advantage of the daylight version. In fact, I like the daylight version less because of all the reflections of the windows.
Brett8883 said:
What would people have done before photoshop to fix this if anything?
Click to expand...
They would have shot it at night, probably. Or done it in B&W.
 
Last edited:
sybersitizen said:
Brett8883 said:
In this situation what am I supposed to do?
Click to expand...
How about not shooting it during the day? The color of the night shot looks fine, and I see no particular advantage of the daylight version. In fact, I like the daylight version less because of all the reflections of the windows.
sybersitizen said:
What would people have done before photoshop to fix this if anything?
Click to expand...
They would have shot it at night, probably. Or done it in B&W.
Click to expand...
Thanks but I can’t usually go to clients buildings at night you know so I’m gonna have to figure out what’s the best way to tackle something like this.

And maybe the answer is that nothing can be done and that’s the best I could have done in camera and now I gotta fix this delicately in Photoshop. I’m just confused about what’s happening. I can’t think of another situation where a color has looked so totally different from how it looks in real life even after calibration and white balance. I wish I knew what causes this.
 
Brett8883 said:
sybersitizen said:
Brett8883 said:
In this situation what am I supposed to do?
Click to expand...
How about not shooting it during the day? The color of the night shot looks fine, and I see no particular advantage of the daylight version. In fact, I like the daylight version less because of all the reflections of the windows.
Brett8883 said:
What would people have done before photoshop to fix this if anything?
Click to expand...
They would have shot it at night, probably. Or done it in B&W.
Click to expand...
Thanks but I can’t usually go to clients buildings at night you know so I’m gonna have to figure out what’s the best way to tackle something like this.

And maybe the answer is that nothing can be done and that’s the best I could have done in camera and now I gotta fix this delicately in Photoshop. I’m just confused about what’s happening.
Click to expand...
And this is why you shoot that scene at night.

With mixed lighting, you have only two choices, remove the mixed lighting or try to fix it in post with local adjustments.

You can remove mixed lighting by turning it off. Turning it off and replacing it. It wasn't unusual for an architectural photographer back in the days of film to have a supply of bulbs to change out on location to fix mixed lighting.
Brett8883 said:
I can’t think of another situation where a color has looked so totally different from how it looks in real life even after calibration and white balance. I wish I knew what causes this.
Click to expand...
Google this, this isn't a secret. Your eyes will always fool you, they are amazing in how they can adapt you brain to what you are looking at.

Different lighting sources have different color balances, in the old days it was basically Daylight, halogens, fluorescents and sodium vapors. A photographer had to have a plan for just those 4 light sources. They might change a halogen to daylight by placing gels in the can lights. Or balance the camera for fluorescents and ad gells to halogens to turn them the color of fluorescents. (The basic idea is the color of the light source doesn't matter you can adjust to it, but you can't adjust to 2 different types of lights. Today you have LEDs thrown into the mix which can be crazy.

You can buy a color meter, it's like an incident light meter but will read the colors the light is putting out and give you and idea of what you're dealing with and how to correct it on site.

--
Thanks,
Mike
https://www.instagram.com/mikefinleyco/
 
Last edited:
In acr I use the white balance tool on the yellow cast and then select the blue cas section and push the blue slider to negative to get rid of the cast. It works ok globally.

Don
 
Brett8883 said:
sybersitizen said:
Brett8883 said:
In this situation what am I supposed to do?
Click to expand...
How about not shooting it during the day? The color of the night shot looks fine, and I see no particular advantage of the daylight version. In fact, I like the daylight version less because of all the reflections of the windows.
Brett8883 said:
What would people have done before photoshop to fix this if anything?
Click to expand...
They would have shot it at night, probably. Or done it in B&W.
Click to expand...
Thanks but I can’t usually go to clients buildings at night you know so I’m gonna have to figure out what’s the best way to tackle something like this.

And maybe the answer is that nothing can be done and that’s the best I could have done in camera and now I gotta fix this delicately in Photoshop. I’m just confused about what’s happening. I can’t think of another situation where a color has looked so totally different from how it looks in real life even after calibration and white balance. I wish I knew what causes this.
Click to expand...
I think it's just a normal result of the mixed lighting.

Anyway, if you can't reshoot and you would rather not use the daylight shot as it is, it can be modified. All I did below was spend about a minute to use the Photoshop Magic Wand selector on the 'orangish' stuff and the 'bluish' stuff and pull the saturation way down. Might be considered satisfactory:

a10b8edac42b42fe9efb9e71d7f0b807.jpg
 
sybersitizen said:
Brett8883 said:
sybersitizen said:
Brett8883 said:
In this situation what am I supposed to do?
Click to expand...
How about not shooting it during the day? The color of the night shot looks fine, and I see no particular advantage of the daylight version. In fact, I like the daylight version less because of all the reflections of the windows.
sybersitizen said:
What would people have done before photoshop to fix this if anything?
Click to expand...
They would have shot it at night, probably. Or done it in B&W.
Click to expand...
Thanks but I can’t usually go to clients buildings at night you know so I’m gonna have to figure out what’s the best way to tackle something like this.

And maybe the answer is that nothing can be done and that’s the best I could have done in camera and now I gotta fix this delicately in Photoshop. I’m just confused about what’s happening. I can’t think of another situation where a color has looked so totally different from how it looks in real life even after calibration and white balance. I wish I knew what causes this.
Click to expand...
I think it's just a normal result of the mixed lighting.

Anyway, if you can't reshoot and you would rather not use the daylight shot as it is, it can be modified. All I did below was spend about a minute to use the Photoshop Magic Wand selector on the 'orangish' stuff and the 'bluish' stuff and pull the saturation way down. Might be considered satisfactory:

a10b8edac42b42fe9efb9e71d7f0b807.jpg
Click to expand...
Yea that looks really good! Do you know what you set the magic wand tolerance to?
 
mfinley said:
Brett8883 said:
sybersitizen said:
Brett8883 said:
In this situation what am I supposed to do?
Click to expand...
How about not shooting it during the day? The color of the night shot looks fine, and I see no particular advantage of the daylight version. In fact, I like the daylight version less because of all the reflections of the windows.
mfinley said:
What would people have done before photoshop to fix this if anything?
Click to expand...
They would have shot it at night, probably. Or done it in B&W.
Click to expand...
Thanks but I can’t usually go to clients buildings at night you know so I’m gonna have to figure out what’s the best way to tackle something like this.

And maybe the answer is that nothing can be done and that’s the best I could have done in camera and now I gotta fix this delicately in Photoshop. I’m just confused about what’s happening.
Click to expand...
And this is why you shoot that scene at night.

With mixed lighting, you have only two choices, remove the mixed lighting or try to fix it in post with local adjustments.

You can remove mixed lighting by turning it off. Turning it off and replacing it. It wasn't unusual for an architectural photographer back in the days of film to have a supply of bulbs to change out on location to fix mixed lighting.
mfinley said:
I can’t think of another situation where a color has looked so totally different from how it looks in real life even after calibration and white balance. I wish I knew what causes this.
Click to expand...
Google this, this isn't a secret. Your eyes will always fool you, they are amazing in how they can adapt you brain to what you are looking at.

Different lighting sources have different color balances, in the old days it was basically Daylight, halogens, fluorescents and sodium vapors. A photographer had to have a plan for just those 4 light sources. They might change a halogen to daylight by placing gels in the can lights. Or balance the camera for fluorescents and ad gells to halogens to turn them the color of fluorescents. (The basic idea is the color of the light source doesn't matter you can adjust to it, but you can't adjust to 2 different types of lights. Today you have LEDs thrown into the mix which can be crazy.

You can buy a color meter, it's like an incident light meter but will read the colors the light is putting out and give you and idea of what you're dealing with and how to correct it on site.
Click to expand...
 
Brett8883 said:
Yea that looks really good! Do you know what you set the magic wand tolerance to?
Click to expand...
It was set to 40. I also invoked the Grow feature once for the orange stuff until it grabbed what I thought was appropriate.
 
Last edited:
sybersitizen said:
Brett8883 said:
Yea that looks really good! Do you know what you set the magic wand tolerance to?
Click to expand...
It was set to 40. I also invoked the Grow feature once for the orange stuff until it grabbed what I thought was appropriate.
Click to expand...
Thanks I’ll have to look that one up. Is it sorta like feather for the magic wand tool cause I have always felt like that was something that is missing
 
Brett8883 said:
sybersitizen said:
Brett8883 said:
Yea that looks really good! Do you know what you set the magic wand tolerance to?
Click to expand...
It was set to 40. I also invoked the Grow feature once for the orange stuff until it grabbed what I thought was appropriate.
Click to expand...
Thanks I’ll have to look that one up. Is it sorta like feather for the magic wand tool cause I have always felt like that was something that is missing
Click to expand...
Grow is a command that extends the previous selection farther than where it is currently. The result varies depending on the situation, so it doesn't always work well.
 
Last edited:
Brett8883 said:
Donald B said:
In acr I use the white balance tool on the yellow cast and then select the blue cas section and push the blue slider to negative to get rid of the cast. It works ok globally.

Don
Click to expand...
Ooo that’s a good idea I had t thought of that thanks!
Click to expand...
I use that method in my studio using white floor and back drop if I get any reflections of colour off bright coloured costumes.

Don

--
Olympus EM1mk2, Sony A7r2
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/9412035244
past toys. k100d, k10d,k7,fz5,fz150,500uz,canon G9, Olympus xz1 em5mk1 em5mk2
 
Last edited:
When a scene has various light sources, a camera with Multi Auto White Balance might be another way to get the white balance you desire. The camera adjusts the white balance according to the light source of each area when this setting is turned on.

I'm not sure how well this works, I haven't tried it.

Bernie
 
Bernie3 said:
When a scene has various light sources, a camera with Multi Auto White Balance might be another way to get the white balance you desire. The camera adjusts the white balance according to the light source of each area when this setting is turned on.

I'm not sure how well this works, I haven't tried it.

Bernie
Click to expand...
Wow that sounds cool! I have a Sony A7R4 and I tried looking this up but couldn’t find much. Do you know what cameras have this feature?

I have always known about white balance bracketing and always wondered what that feature was useful for but maybe I’ve finally found it? Im not even sure how that would work in post. Would you layer them up in Photoshop and mask in different areas with different white balances?
 
Last edited:
In the top (daytime) photo, the white walls of the lower level have a blue cast. That could be explained as a camera set to daylight white balance shooting a scene in shadow. Shade gives an environment a blue cast.

In the field, you could manually select a white balance of "open shade" or a color temperature of about 7700, make a test exposure and tweak as needed to get the white balance for the principal area of the scene where you wander it.

The artificial lighting is the dominant source in the upper level. It's probably in the 3200-3300K range. Making the whites look white in the lower level will exaggerate the upper levels difference in color temperature. But shooting raw will make it relatively easy to address this in post.

In Lightroom, an adjustment brush can be used to paint the upper section of the photo and adjust only that areas look. Some combination of a cooling cooler wash and a desaturation of color would probably do the trick.

In a room like this where the differences in color temperature are fairly abrupt, you could lock down the composition on a tripod, make two exposures- one with color temp set for the lower level and one set for the upper - and blend the two layers in Photoshop.
 
Bill Ferris said:
In the top (daytime) photo, the white walls of the lower level have a blue cast. That could be explained as a camera set to daylight white balance shooting a scene in shadow. Shade gives an environment a blue cast.

In the field, you could manually select a white balance of "open shade" or a color temperature of about 7700, make a test exposure and tweak as needed to get the white balance for the principal area of the scene where you wander it.

The artificial lighting is the dominant source in the upper level. It's probably in the 3200-3300K range. Making the whites look white in the lower level will exaggerate the upper levels difference in color temperature. But shooting raw will make it relatively easy to address this in post.

In Lightroom, an adjustment brush can be used to paint the upper section of the photo and adjust only that areas look. Some combination of a cooling cooler wash and a desaturation of color would probably do the trick.

In a room like this where the differences in color temperature are fairly abrupt, you could lock down the composition on a tripod, make two exposures- one with color temp set for the lower level and one set for the upper - and blend the two layers in Photoshop.
Click to expand...
 
Bill Ferris said:
In a room like this where the differences in color temperature are fairly abrupt, you could lock down the composition on a tripod, make two exposures- one with color temp set for the lower level and one set for the upper - and blend the two layers in Photoshop.
Click to expand...
I don't think you need two exposures. You can do two exports from a single exposure from ACR with the color balance adjusted for each light source and make each be a layer. And then blend the two layers as you suggested.

I'm not an expert on ACR, but I remember fixing a similar mixed light source problem all in ACR by (I think) using a brush to make a mask and being able to adjust the color temperature of masked/unmasked separately. Which achieved the same result as the method Bill suggested. (It has been several years since I did this and I don't remember anything more than what I just described.)

Wayne
 
Bernie3 said:
When a scene has various light sources, a camera with Multi Auto White Balance might be another way to get the white balance you desire. The camera adjusts the white balance according to the light source of each area when this setting is turned on.

I'm not sure how well this works, I haven't tried it.

Bernie
Click to expand...
A magic camera? Which camera can do this?
 
Wayne Larmon said:
Bill Ferris said:
In a room like this where the differences in color temperature are fairly abrupt, you could lock down the composition on a tripod, make two exposures- one with color temp set for the lower level and one set for the upper - and blend the two layers in Photoshop.
Click to expand...
I don't think you need two exposures. You can do two exports from a single exposure from ACR with the color balance adjusted for each light source and make each be a layer. And then blend the two layers as you suggested.

I'm not an expert on ACR, but I remember fixing a similar mixed light source problem all in ACR by (I think) using a brush to make a mask and being able to adjust the color temperature of masked/unmasked separately. Which achieved the same result as the method Bill suggested. (It has been several years since I did this and I don't remember anything more than what I just described.)

Wayne
Click to expand...
That’s a great point and I suppose the purpose of exporting to Photoshop rather than using a local adjustment brush is to have more control over the blending?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

saltydogstudios
  • Poll Poll
Would you want a White Balance Dial?
2 3 4
Replies
79
Views
80
tbcass
tbcass
A
  • Question Question
Need help: Sony a1ii white balance mystery?!?!?!?
Replies
5
Views
6
dmanthree
D
DNature
Manual white balance issues sometimes when shooting video S5II
Replies
6
Views
7
DNature
DNature
simonalexander
  • Question Question
Struggling with white balance on Q3 43
Replies
19
Views
20
Rodenmg
Rodenmg
L
Birds with Infrared chrome, and full-spectrum
Replies
0
Views
1
Larry Rexley
L

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top