A9III rumors... Could it really be?

There are just too many issues with the stacked sensor, and it costs a lot to make despite have low resolution and DR.

Instead, they should speed up the the A7R4 sensor readout speed, increase the buffet, add a 15-20 fps mechanical shutter (Samsung made one 6 years ago and Fujifilm has one too), and give the option of 8K video for those who might want 30fps and high resolution. 15-20 is fast enough as you say. 30 is there for those rare cases.

Do all that and they could consolidate and probably sell more cameras. They'd save money not having to produce another sensor too (and stacked sensos are expensive to make)

I'd like to see IBIS improved too, but the smaller diameter mount limits how much the sensor can move.
They certainly should not. Readout NEEDS to be at least 1/120 sec to have any chance of shooting indoors with NTSC, and even 1/120 would have one band in the frame. This is why 1/160th is used; it keeps the A9 within a safe margin of NTSC banding for indoor shooting. This requires the stacked sensor at this point.
As we saw in the pictures there are nasty artifacts with an electronic shutter. A mechanical shutter is superior in every way with no worries over lighting. It works faster flash speeds too.

If Samsung can make a 15fps shutter 6 years ago Sony can make a 20 fps one today. And we'd still have the electronic shutter for those rare cases when one is needed.

Superior shutter

Greater DR

Near triple the pixels (more than 1.5x resolution)

No nasty artifacts

Less need for longer, heavier, super expensive lenses.

Give me the A7R4 with a newly designed shutter and a sensor with faster sensor readout,. And ditch the problematic A9.
Dude, you need you just get an A7R4 and understand that not everyone has the same needs as you. There's no way I would choose the camera you're describing over my A9.
The camera I described would be better in every way. But if you prefer low DR, low resolution, nasty artifacts, and overall worse IQ, then you'll be fine with the old A9.
Are you 12 years old?
Why do Sony fans always resort to name calling and silly insults? Is it that hard to have a conversation with that?
You have some really good action shots on your Instagram. What camera/s did you use to capture those?

Regarding the destructive trajectory of this thread: I’m an admitted Sony fan who is perfectly comfortable with you believing the A7RIV is better at capturing and representing action than the A9 series cameras.
 
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There are just too many issues with the stacked sensor, and it costs a lot to make despite have low resolution and DR.

Instead, they should speed up the the A7R4 sensor readout speed, increase the buffet, add a 15-20 fps mechanical shutter (Samsung made one 6 years ago and Fujifilm has one too), and give the option of 8K video for those who might want 30fps and high resolution. 15-20 is fast enough as you say. 30 is there for those rare cases.

Do all that and they could consolidate and probably sell more cameras. They'd save money not having to produce another sensor too (and stacked sensos are expensive to make)

I'd like to see IBIS improved too, but the smaller diameter mount limits how much the sensor can move.
They certainly should not. Readout NEEDS to be at least 1/120 sec to have any chance of shooting indoors with NTSC, and even 1/120 would have one band in the frame. This is why 1/160th is used; it keeps the A9 within a safe margin of NTSC banding for indoor shooting. This requires the stacked sensor at this point.
As we saw in the pictures there are nasty artifacts with an electronic shutter. A mechanical shutter is superior in every way with no worries over lighting. It works faster flash speeds too.

If Samsung can make a 15fps shutter 6 years ago Sony can make a 20 fps one today. And we'd still have the electronic shutter for those rare cases when one is needed.

Superior shutter

Greater DR

Near triple the pixels (more than 1.5x resolution)

No nasty artifacts

Less need for longer, heavier, super expensive lenses.

Give me the A7R4 with a newly designed shutter and a sensor with faster sensor readout,. And ditch the problematic A9.
Dude, you need you just get an A7R4 and understand that not everyone has the same needs as you. There's no way I would choose the camera you're describing over my A9.
The camera I described would be better in every way. But if you prefer low DR, low resolution, nasty artifacts, and overall worse IQ, then you'll be fine with the old A9.
Are you 12 years old?
Why do Sony fans always resort to name calling and silly insults? Is it that hard to have a conversation with that?
You have some really good action shots on your Instagram. What camera/s did you use to capture those?

...
Do you mean my instagram? That was the one that appeared in the quote above. If you did, nearly everything in the last 9 months was taken with an A9 II and the 200-600. Prior to that it was Olympus E-M1 II/III with 300mm Pro. I switched to get better af, no rolling shutter and no viewfinder blackout as well as more light from a larger lens. Looked at the A7rIV but quickly rejected it because it didn’t do the important things I wanted and lots of people were reporting af issues with the 200-600. Dynamic range of the A9II is not a problem.
 
Agree. Just because the dynamic range is worse than the A7iii doesn't make it bad. It just means the A7iii is better. The A7iii has some of the best DR on the market.

It's like people pixel peeping between two ultra-sharp $2000+ lenses and trying to pretend that everyone needs the sharpest one.
 
I too was swayed to worry from all the hype of this focus system vs that focus system. A7(X) vs A9(x). Sony VS Canon. What will the new A9(x) be and will it integrate super fast everything with a higher resolution sensor... etc. Pffft! The A7Riv is so fast, precise and quiet I can't imagine ever needing better. High speed shooting having to write all those huge 61mp RAW files to the memory card HAS to be sluggish do to the pure physics of what all is happening. Pffft! Changing to high speed shooting mode and holding down the shutter release is so fast that it is ridiculous how many sequential shots I get and I have yet to notice ANY lag when clearing the buffer? It is pausing to clear the buffer isn't it? I really can't tell!
And with Topaz Denoise software? You don't have to worry about shooting high ISO anymore. I took a low light 6400 ISO (my max) photo of Egrets in a tree. The Egrets were, well, very fuzzy. Denoise cleaned it right up! I rented the A7RIV and now miss it. I think one can comfortably shoot higher ISO and no longer worry about it.

My only worry is the file size. Compressed RAW doesn't take nearly as long as Uncompressed of course. But the better half and I are working on that.
I completely agree with you guys.

I'll take 61MP over 24MP. Especially for sports and wildlife. Faster than 10fps means little, but those extra pixels and extra reach are priceless.

And don't forget, when the A9II goes faster than 10 fps, or when the A9 goes faster than 5 fps, they drop to 12 bit compressed, lose DR, add a little more rolling shutter, and negatively affect Bokeh. The electronic shutter is still a huge compromise.

Give me the highest DR and 61 MP any day over compromised IQ and low resolution.

Bye, did you see the best camera for landscapes? Also the A7R4.
I guess yo don’t have an A9ii. There is no rolling shutter at any frame rate.
Not only does the A9ii exhibit rolling shutter with very fast moving objects,. It exhibits electronic shutter artifacts due to the stacked sensor.

4d0d681306114956a3d3a235dfc1a823.jpg
Source and EXif?
Yes indeed. What exactly is the source here?

I personally have shot many flying birds with my A9 using it's 20fps blackout free electronic shutter and I always look at my images very closely - I do not experience the claimed distortion.

Apart from my own work the A9 has been used by many others to shoot fast action sports so I am taking this claim with a large pinch of salt.

The electronic shutter in the A9 is actually quite amazing.
 
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I too was swayed to worry from all the hype of this focus system vs that focus system. A7(X) vs A9(x). Sony VS Canon. What will the new A9(x) be and will it integrate super fast everything with a higher resolution sensor... etc. Pffft! The A7Riv is so fast, precise and quiet I can't imagine ever needing better. High speed shooting having to write all those huge 61mp RAW files to the memory card HAS to be sluggish do to the pure physics of what all is happening. Pffft! Changing to high speed shooting mode and holding down the shutter release is so fast that it is ridiculous how many sequential shots I get and I have yet to notice ANY lag when clearing the buffer? It is pausing to clear the buffer isn't it? I really can't tell!
And with Topaz Denoise software? You don't have to worry about shooting high ISO anymore. I took a low light 6400 ISO (my max) photo of Egrets in a tree. The Egrets were, well, very fuzzy. Denoise cleaned it right up! I rented the A7RIV and now miss it. I think one can comfortably shoot higher ISO and no longer worry about it.

My only worry is the file size. Compressed RAW doesn't take nearly as long as Uncompressed of course. But the better half and I are working on that.
I completely agree with you guys.

I'll take 61MP over 24MP. Especially for sports and wildlife. Faster than 10fps means little, but those extra pixels and extra reach are priceless.

And don't forget, when the A9II goes faster than 10 fps, or when the A9 goes faster than 5 fps, they drop to 12 bit compressed, lose DR, add a little more rolling shutter, and negatively affect Bokeh. The electronic shutter is still a huge compromise.

Give me the highest DR and 61 MP any day over compromised IQ and low resolution.

Bye, did you see the best camera for landscapes? Also the A7R4.
I guess yo don’t have an A9ii. There is no rolling shutter at any frame rate.
Not only does the A9ii exhibit rolling shutter with very fast moving objects,. It exhibits electronic shutter artifacts due to the stacked sensor.

4d0d681306114956a3d3a235dfc1a823.jpg
Source and EXif?
Yes indeed. What exactly is the source here?

I personally have shot many flying birds with my A9 using it's 20fps blackout free electronic shutter and I always look at my images very closely - I do not experience the claimed distortion.

Apart from my own work the A9 has been used by many others to shoot fast action sports so I am taking this claim with a large pinch of salt.
It does seem to be a know potential artifact caused by the sensor being read 12 rows (if I remember correctly) at a time. But I've never come across it in practice.

--
 
I too was swayed to worry from all the hype of this focus system vs that focus system. A7(X) vs A9(x). Sony VS Canon. What will the new A9(x) be and will it integrate super fast everything with a higher resolution sensor... etc. Pffft! The A7Riv is so fast, precise and quiet I can't imagine ever needing better. High speed shooting having to write all those huge 61mp RAW files to the memory card HAS to be sluggish do to the pure physics of what all is happening. Pffft! Changing to high speed shooting mode and holding down the shutter release is so fast that it is ridiculous how many sequential shots I get and I have yet to notice ANY lag when clearing the buffer? It is pausing to clear the buffer isn't it? I really can't tell!
And with Topaz Denoise software? You don't have to worry about shooting high ISO anymore. I took a low light 6400 ISO (my max) photo of Egrets in a tree. The Egrets were, well, very fuzzy. Denoise cleaned it right up! I rented the A7RIV and now miss it. I think one can comfortably shoot higher ISO and no longer worry about it.

My only worry is the file size. Compressed RAW doesn't take nearly as long as Uncompressed of course. But the better half and I are working on that.
I completely agree with you guys.

I'll take 61MP over 24MP. Especially for sports and wildlife. Faster than 10fps means little, but those extra pixels and extra reach are priceless.

And don't forget, when the A9II goes faster than 10 fps, or when the A9 goes faster than 5 fps, they drop to 12 bit compressed, lose DR, add a little more rolling shutter, and negatively affect Bokeh. The electronic shutter is still a huge compromise.

Give me the highest DR and 61 MP any day over compromised IQ and low resolution.

Bye, did you see the best camera for landscapes? Also the A7R4.
I guess yo don’t have an A9ii. There is no rolling shutter at any frame rate.
Not only does the A9ii exhibit rolling shutter with very fast moving objects,. It exhibits electronic shutter artifacts due to the stacked sensor.

4d0d681306114956a3d3a235dfc1a823.jpg
Source and EXif?
Yes indeed. What exactly is the source here?

I personally have shot many flying birds with my A9 using it's 20fps blackout free electronic shutter and I always look at my images very closely - I do not experience the claimed distortion.

Apart from my own work the A9 has been used by many others to shoot fast action sports so I am taking this claim with a large pinch of salt.
It does seem to be a know potential artifact caused by the sensor being read 12 rows (if I remember correctly) at a time. But I've never come across it in practice.
That makes two of us ... and that's after tens of thousands of shots in my case.
 
It does seem to be a know potential artifact caused by the sensor being read 12 rows (if I remember correctly) at a time. But I've never come across it in practice.
do you have a reference for this? If this were the case you would see jagged edges on any panning and I have never seen that.
 
It does seem to be a know potential artifact caused by the sensor being read 12 rows (if I remember correctly) at a time. But I've never come across it in practice.
do you have a reference for this? If this were the case you would see jagged edges on any panning and I have never seen that.
I'm thinking Photoshop Gaussian blur myself ;)

Joking aside it looks to me like a poorly edited shot.

Here's a similar image that I shot as just one example (I always use the electronic shutter when shooting flying birds) ... any blurring of the far wing here is DOF related and not rolling shutter. This bird was moving very fast at the time - focus could have been slightly better (taken before the A9 firmware updates).

d19092c2c18845b0b039abd8276bd1ba.jpg
 
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There are just too many issues with the stacked sensor, and it costs a lot to make despite have low resolution and DR.

Instead, they should speed up the the A7R4 sensor readout speed, increase the buffet, add a 15-20 fps mechanical shutter (Samsung made one 6 years ago and Fujifilm has one too), and give the option of 8K video for those who might want 30fps and high resolution. 15-20 is fast enough as you say. 30 is there for those rare cases.

Do all that and they could consolidate and probably sell more cameras. They'd save money not having to produce another sensor too (and stacked sensos are expensive to make)

I'd like to see IBIS improved too, but the smaller diameter mount limits how much the sensor can move.
They certainly should not. Readout NEEDS to be at least 1/120 sec to have any chance of shooting indoors with NTSC, and even 1/120 would have one band in the frame. This is why 1/160th is used; it keeps the A9 within a safe margin of NTSC banding for indoor shooting. This requires the stacked sensor at this point.
As we saw in the pictures there are nasty artifacts with an electronic shutter. A mechanical shutter is superior in every way with no worries over lighting. It works faster flash speeds too.

If Samsung can make a 15fps shutter 6 years ago Sony can make a 20 fps one today. And we'd still have the electronic shutter for those rare cases when one is needed.

Superior shutter

Greater DR

Near triple the pixels (more than 1.5x resolution)

No nasty artifacts

Less need for longer, heavier, super expensive lenses.

Give me the A7R4 with a newly designed shutter and a sensor with faster sensor readout,. And ditch the problematic A9.
Dude, you need you just get an A7R4 and understand that not everyone has the same needs as you. There's no way I would choose the camera you're describing over my A9.
The camera I described would be better in every way. But if you prefer low DR, low resolution, nasty artifacts, and overall worse IQ, then you'll be fine with the old A9.
Are you 12 years old?
Why do Sony fans always resort to name calling and silly insults? Is it that hard to have a conversation with that?
You have some really good action shots on your Instagram. What camera/s did you use to capture those?

...
Do you mean my instagram? That was the one that appeared in the quote above. If you did, nearly everything in the last 9 months was taken with an A9 II and the 200-600. Prior to that it was Olympus E-M1 II/III with 300mm Pro. I switched to get better af, no rolling shutter and no viewfinder blackout as well as more light from a larger lens. Looked at the A7rIV but quickly rejected it because it didn’t do the important things I wanted and lots of people were reporting af issues with the 200-600. Dynamic range of the A9II is not a problem.
Tony, thank you for the clarification and please forgive the mixup.

I agree the DR in the A9II is definitely not a problem. I believe DXOMARK rated it at 14 stops.
 
While it is true that smaller sites mean more noise, it isn't that simple. Other factors come in as well. Compare noise from sensors of 10 years ago at say, 6000 iso with those of today. We have come a long long way in overcoming the noise/site size issue. For the odd shot done at particularly high iso where you might really want to handle noise, just run it through Topaz DeNoise.
No, the principle still applies. Thus "overcome" is not exactly correct. However, and you pretty much say it indirectly, it is now at a point where for most it is good enough, even if things go to ISO6400, for example. Unfortunately, this "good enough for me" is often extended to a globally applicable fact, and that is, as noted already, wrong.

I've covered underground concerts for many years, using f/1.4 lenses wide open, exposure time often borderline towards too long, and still end up in the high 4 digit ISO range minimum, more likely even in the 5 digit range. Flashes are very annoying and even at lowest rating still too strong, i.e. trash the entire ambient / context light to nothingness. The differences in the output of cameras with different pixel sizes become very visible, even at ISO6400 you will see how much more post-processing latitude there is with larger pixel sizes.

Someone posted a comparison between A9 and A7sIII (https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64442377) and the important part are the differences at the -3EV (and +3 push in post) shots: It just shows how much more processing latitude the A7sIII offers. The higher res cameras are even worse than the A9 in that regard, because they can barely hold their stuff together at 0EV and ISO10k already. This higher latitude also translates to lower ISOs, but eventually becomes irrelevant, because other factors become the dominant weakest link, giving an advantage to higher res sensors.

So, it is good we have the choice where we can decide based on our preferences. 20..24MPix is really a sweet spot for a number of applications vs. certain limits in technology. Camera makers would easily ramp up the megapixels otherwise, because it is so easy to shovel that into the throats of customers by marketing. The A7rIV has also shown that eventually you can overdo it, which is why a certain crowd sticks to the A7rIII instead. There is no free lunch.
 
It does seem to be a know potential artifact caused by the sensor being read 12 rows (if I remember correctly) at a time. But I've never come across it in practice.
do you have a reference for this? If this were the case you would see jagged edges on any panning and I have never seen that.
Here you go - https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1663827/0?keyword=a9,artifacts#15346850
I have shot hummingbirds many times and I have never experienced this issue - I'm not entirely sure what "dclark" is doing here.

I'd like to understand exactly what he is doing in post because I suspect that may be the root cause here.

But ... clearly this is not a common A9 issue. Frankly we'd be hearing a awful lot more about the issue if that were indeed the case. Many professionals shoot an A9.

Here's an example of a hummingbird that I shot with my own A9's electronic shutter ... I see no such effects in the (admittedly) blurred wings, do you?

053790c136354419a87ee0ebe7ace460.jpg
 
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It does seem to be a know potential artifact caused by the sensor being read 12 rows (if I remember correctly) at a time. But I've never come across it in practice.
do you have a reference for this? If this were the case you would see jagged edges on any panning and I have never seen that.
Here you go - https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1663827/0?keyword=a9,artifacts#15346850
I have shot hummingbirds many times and I have never experienced this issue - I'm not entirely sure what "dclark" is doing here.

I'd like to understand exactly what he is doing in post because I suspect that may be the root cause here.

But ... clearly this is not a common A9 issue. Frankly we'd be hearing a awful lot more about the issue if that were indeed the case. Many professionals shoot an A9.

Here's an example of a hummingbird that I shot with my own A9's electronic shutter ... I see no such effects in the (admittedly) blurred wings, do you?

053790c136354419a87ee0ebe7ace460.jpg
No, I don't say any banding with your image. dclark say that it seems to be a luminence artifact and that sharpening makes it worse. I suspect the blue background and dark wing makes it worse and it probably only happens with a specific amount of blur and very fast horizontal motion. Maybe he used a lower shutter speed than you?

Anyway, it's so rare, I don't think we need to worry about it until it happens. ;-)

--
 
Saw a post on FB about a new A7RV...more speculation on something that hasn't even been rumored yet. Nothing but click bate.
„FB“ ??
 
It does seem to be a know potential artifact caused by the sensor being read 12 rows (if I remember correctly) at a time. But I've never come across it in practice.
do you have a reference for this? If this were the case you would see jagged edges on any panning and I have never seen that.
Here you go - https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1663827/0?keyword=a9,artifacts#15346850
I have shot hummingbirds many times and I have never experienced this issue - I'm not entirely sure what "dclark" is doing here.

I'd like to understand exactly what he is doing in post because I suspect that may be the root cause here.

But ... clearly this is not a common A9 issue. Frankly we'd be hearing a awful lot more about the issue if that were indeed the case. Many professionals shoot an A9.

Here's an example of a hummingbird that I shot with my own A9's electronic shutter ... I see no such effects in the (admittedly) blurred wings, do you?

053790c136354419a87ee0ebe7ace460.jpg
No, I don't say any banding with your image. dclark say that it seems to be a luminence artifact and that sharpening makes it worse. I suspect the blue background and dark wing makes it worse and it probably only happens with a specific amount of blur and very fast horizontal motion. Maybe he used a lower shutter speed than you?

Anyway, it's so rare, I don't think we need to worry about it until it happens. ;-)
Trust me I'm not at all worried, my A9 has been a stellar performer over tens of thousands of electronic shutter shots.

I totally love this camera.

However I do worry that "occasional" issues (if they are real) get exaggerated by online forum posts like these and pretty soon they become major issues.

I remember similar discussions about the "shutter shock" problem with the original A7r. But for some reason that never bothered me either, easily avoided actually.
 
...

In 3-4 years, it is very reasonable to prospect an updated a9 with higher megapixel count, considering r5, it seems a requirement for sony, this time..

what i wonder is that if a9m3 comes with a 50 mp sensor, but will happen to r5.. Should we expect a 80-90 mp camera?
Yes and no. There are already rumors about an R camera with 80-90MP, but rather than the next iteration of the R5, it will likely be a high-MP branch, say an R5s like the 5Ds cameras from a few years ago.

Right now, 40-50MP seems to be the sweet spot for high-end enthusiast/general purpose pro cameras. It use to be the battle was for MP, now the battle lines are drawn around who has the fastest/ most accurate AF, something that was reserved for specialty sports/PJ cameras. The only question I have is whether the next A9 is the replacement for the A9II or whether it becomes a separate high-MP branch of the A9 line.
 
Actually in the right groups you’d be surprised. There are more clowns in here than there are in some of the well moderated groups on facebook. I have all but abandoned the forums here in favor of a few select groups on FB.
 

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