First time using lights, what to rent?

Hi

I do occasional photography work for a non profit I work for. I always used natural light as it was in Thailand and there was lots of it.

Now I have to do a job in the UK, in January, inside. So I imagine it will look gloomy, and it will most likely be a grey dark day outside.

I will be shooting a group of about 6 people, eating, talking etc. But almost all teh shots will have a fairly close subject with some blurry people in the background, rather than wide shots.

I have never used lights before. I'd like to be able to warm things up if possible, as everyone is also going to be pale at this time of year.

Can anyone recommend the kinds of lights I could rent for this? I have no idea where to start

thanks

Renting lights in the UK is a bit of a problem. Some large studios in London do rentals but not the sort of gear that you'd really want to use. WEX have a rental department as to The Flash Centre Note that rental fees are often quoted ex VAT and often exclude a damage waiver fee.

Really you could get away with using a couple of speedlights and brollies but if you do that it would probably be cheaper to buy something rather than rent if you are doing more than a couple of shoots.

A very basic non TTL strobe like the Godox TT600 can be used off camera using a radio trigger like the XPro A couple of light stands and umbrella swivels and umbrellas would probably cost you ~£250.

Before you do anything take a look at Strobist Lighting 101 .

tugwilson said:

Renting lights in the UK is a bit of a problem. Some large studios in London do rentals but not the sort of gear that you'd really want to use. WEX have a rental department as to The Flash Centre Note that rental fees are often quoted ex VAT and often exclude a damage waiver fee.

Really you could get away with using a couple of speedlights and brollies but if you do that it would probably be cheaper to buy something rather than rent if you are doing more than a couple of shoots.

A very basic non TTL strobe like the Godox TT600 can be used off camera using a radio trigger like the XPro A couple of light stands and umbrella swivels and umbrellas would probably cost you ~£250.

Before you do anything take a look at Strobist Lighting 101 .

Click to expand...

Thanks, I have a Wex here as I live in Bristol, also Pannyhire.

Sorry for any really silly questions but...

The strobist site has a lot of good info. But its mostly based on what you mentioned too, using a flash and umbrellas. This seems appropriate for portraits and studio photography.

But what about my situation where it's mostly candid, and trying to capture things as they happen naturally? Would you still use the techniques you mentioned, or is it more normal to actually permanently light the room the way you want?

Because surely if I'm using a flash I can only see what a photo looks like after I've taken it and the flash has gone off, so it only makes sense when things are 'setup'

I may be missing a lot here, as I'm totally new to lighting
Thanks

Robodelfy said:

Thanks, I have a Wex here as I live in Bristol, also Pannyhire.
Sorry for any really silly questions but...

The strobist site has a lot of good info. But its mostly based on what you mentioned too, using a flash and umbrellas. This seems appropriate for portraits and studio photography.

But what about my situation where it's mostly candid, and trying to capture things as they happen naturally? Would you still use the techniques you mentioned, or is it more normal to actually permanently light the room the way you want?
Because surely if I'm using a flash I can only see what a photo looks like after I've taken it and the flash has gone off, so it only makes sense when things are 'setup'

I may be missing a lot here, as I'm totally new to lighting
Thanks

Click to expand...

Flash and candid photography doesn't really go together in most environments. Firing a speedlight at somebody is going to make you the centre of attention. Photographers like Dougie Wallace do this but I doubt you want to adopt his style.

If you want unposed/unstaged shots you are really going to have to use natural light or, perhaps, a bit of unobtrusive constant light. However constant lights make little difference to the image unless they are quite bright, quite close or the ambient is very low.

Ok thanks, so I'd be shooting in the room pictured at the bottom of this post. But this was in mid summer, the sun was coming in the front.

So my main concern is it being winter and gloomy grey weather. Which is why I considered adding some lights. But you said lights won't make that much difference to the scene unless very bright. So I wonder if I'd be creating more hassle for myself and wasting time and money?

Wex have these :

https://rental.wexphotovideo.com/hire-litepanels-astra-4x-bi-color-led-7209#productInfo

Robodelfy said:

Ok thanks, so I'd be shooting in the room pictured at the bottom of this post. But this was in mid summer, the sun was coming in the front.

So my main concern is it being winter and gloomy grey weather. Which is why I considered adding some lights. But you said lights won't make that much difference to the scene unless very bright. So I wonder if I'd be creating more hassle for myself and wasting time and money?

Wex have these :

https://rental.wexphotovideo.com/hire-litepanels-astra-4x-bi-color-led-7209#productInfo

Click to expand...

Panels like that are often used in pairs for interviews when the journalist and the subject are seated and the ambient is a bit subdued. I would not bother with them.

Pre COVID I used to do quite a bit of performance photography, Often shooting rehearsals for images for the press night. You have to take what you're given as far as light is concerned in these situations. Sometime the rehearsals are a bit tense so you need to be as unobtrusive as possible (I was once chased round the stage by a 15 stone Drag Queen because I got a bit too close a bit too often). I found fast lenses, high ISO and a quiet (mirrorless) camera was the best setup for the job.

tugwilson said:

Robodelfy said:

Ok thanks, so I'd be shooting in the room pictured at the bottom of this post. But this was in mid summer, the sun was coming in the front.

So my main concern is it being winter and gloomy grey weather. Which is why I considered adding some lights. But you said lights won't make that much difference to the scene unless very bright. So I wonder if I'd be creating more hassle for myself and wasting time and money?

Wex have these :

https://rental.wexphotovideo.com/hire-litepanels-astra-4x-bi-color-led-7209#productInfo

Click to expand...

Panels like that are often used in pairs for interviews when the journalist and the subject are seated and the ambient is a bit subdued. I would not bother with them.

Pre COVID I used to do quite a bit of performance photography, Often shooting rehearsals for images for the press night. You have to take what you're given as far as light is concerned in these situations. Sometime the rehearsals are a bit tense so you need to be as unobtrusive as possible (I was once chased round the stage by a 15 stone Drag Queen because I got a bit too close a bit too often). I found fast lenses, high ISO and a quiet (mirrorless) camera was the best setup for the job.

Click to expand...

Thanks, yeah youre probably right. It will only slow me down to have to constantly adjust lights also. Ideally I'd be doing this shoot in a better season, but they need it now so its got to be January!

I've only recently got my a7ii, coming from a panasonic GH5. So I'm already noticing the better low light performance, but I've barely use it so havent got a good idea of what ISO I can go up to. I'll work it out before the shoot, but its daytime so it shouldn't be an issue anyway

Thanks for your help

Robodelfy said:

tugwilson said:

Robodelfy said:

Ok thanks, so I'd be shooting in the room pictured at the bottom of this post. But this was in mid summer, the sun was coming in the front.

So my main concern is it being winter and gloomy grey weather. Which is why I considered adding some lights. But you said lights won't make that much difference to the scene unless very bright. So I wonder if I'd be creating more hassle for myself and wasting time and money?

Wex have these :

https://rental.wexphotovideo.com/hire-litepanels-astra-4x-bi-color-led-7209#productInfo

Click to expand...

Panels like that are often used in pairs for interviews when the journalist and the subject are seated and the ambient is a bit subdued. I would not bother with them.

Pre COVID I used to do quite a bit of performance photography, Often shooting rehearsals for images for the press night. You have to take what you're given as far as light is concerned in these situations. Sometime the rehearsals are a bit tense so you need to be as unobtrusive as possible (I was once chased round the stage by a 15 stone Drag Queen because I got a bit too close a bit too often). I found fast lenses, high ISO and a quiet (mirrorless) camera was the best setup for the job.

Click to expand...

Thanks, yeah youre probably right. It will only slow me down to have to constantly adjust lights also. Ideally I'd be doing this shoot in a better season, but they need it now so its got to be January!
I've only recently got my a7ii, coming from a panasonic GH5. So I'm already noticing the better low light performance, but I've barely use it so havent got a good idea of what ISO I can go up to. I'll work it out before the shoot, but its daytime so it shouldn't be an issue anyway

Thanks for your help

Click to expand...

This sounds like a plan. You don't want to be learning lights when people are depending on you for photos. Unless you plan on making large prints you can go very high on ISO -- these days quality of light is more often an issue than quantity.

You do need to be learning lighting so you are prepared for the next time a situation like this comes up. A couple of speedlights and a remote are a good place to start, and Strobist is an excellent guide.

Gato

Robodelfy said:

Hi

[...]

Now I have to do a job in the UK, in January, inside. So I imagine it will look gloomy, and it will most likely be a grey dark day outside.

I will be shooting a group of about 6 people, eating, talking etc. But almost all teh shots will have a fairly close subject with some blurry people in the background, rather than wide shots.

I have never used lights before. I'd like to be able to warm things up if possible, as everyone is also going to be pale at this time of year.

Click to expand...

That's about white balance - just warm things up in post. Or put a 1/4CTS gel over the on-camera flash and set the in-camera white balance to flash given that your flash will be the main light.

Can anyone recommend the kinds of lights I could rent for this? I have no idea where to start Frankly said:

tugwilson, post: 64710223, member: 1589186"]

[...]

Click to expand...

If you want unposed/unstaged shots you are really going to have to use natural light or, perhaps, a bit of unobtrusive constant light.

Click to expand...

I don't really agree. Generally after the first half a dozen or so flashes everyone acclimatizes and no longer notices the flash.

But in some circumstances it could be better to avoid strobes. In the venue shown by the OP that would cause me to lean to fast lenses.

Robodelfy said:

However constant lights make little difference to the image unless they are quite bright, quite close or the ambient is very low.

Click to expand...

If the OP contacts the venue in advance they could work with the OP and arrange for better lighting = maybe bounce some continuous lights off of the ceiling. All else being equal. But I would prefer flash or fast lenses.
[/QUOTE]

Gato Amarillo said:

Robodelfy said:

tugwilson said:

Robodelfy said:

Ok thanks, so I'd be shooting in the room pictured at the bottom of this post. But this was in mid summer, the sun was coming in the front.

So my main concern is it being winter and gloomy grey weather. Which is why I considered adding some lights. But you said lights won't make that much difference to the scene unless very bright. So I wonder if I'd be creating more hassle for myself and wasting time and money?

Wex have these :

https://rental.wexphotovideo.com/hire-litepanels-astra-4x-bi-color-led-7209#productInfo

Click to expand...

Panels like that are often used in pairs for interviews when the journalist and the subject are seated and the ambient is a bit subdued. I would not bother with them.

Pre COVID I used to do quite a bit of performance photography, Often shooting rehearsals for images for the press night. You have to take what you're given as far as light is concerned in these situations. Sometime the rehearsals are a bit tense so you need to be as unobtrusive as possible (I was once chased round the stage by a 15 stone Drag Queen because I got a bit too close a bit too often). I found fast lenses, high ISO and a quiet (mirrorless) camera was the best setup for the job.

Click to expand...

Thanks, yeah youre probably right. It will only slow me down to have to constantly adjust lights also. Ideally I'd be doing this shoot in a better season, but they need it now so its got to be January!
I've only recently got my a7ii, coming from a panasonic GH5. So I'm already noticing the better low light performance, but I've barely use it so havent got a good idea of what ISO I can go up to. I'll work it out before the shoot, but its daytime so it shouldn't be an issue anyway

Thanks for your help

Click to expand...

This sounds like a plan. You don't want to be learning lights when people are depending on you for photos. Unless you plan on making large prints you can go very high on ISO -- these days quality of light is more often an issue than quantity.

You do need to be learning lighting so you are prepared for the next time a situation like this comes up. A couple of speedlights and a remote are a good place to start, and Strobist is an excellent guide.

Gato

Click to expand...

Thanks very much for your advice. I'm kind of wishing I forked out for the a7iii now, as the low light performance is vastly improved, but this should be fine as it its day time

I'll go through the strobist course

rumple said:

Robodelfy said:

Hi

[...]

Now I have to do a job in the UK, in January, inside. So I imagine it will look gloomy, and it will most likely be a grey dark day outside.

I will be shooting a group of about 6 people, eating, talking etc. But almost all teh shots will have a fairly close subject with some blurry people in the background, rather than wide shots.

I have never used lights before. I'd like to be able to warm things up if possible, as everyone is also going to be pale at this time of year.

Click to expand...

That's about white balance - just warm things up in post. Or put a 1/4CTS gel over the on-camera flash and set the in-camera white balance to flash given that your flash will be the main light.

Can anyone recommend the kinds of lights I could rent for this? I have no idea where to start[/QUOTE] Frankly said:

tugwilson, post: 64712533, member: 999128"]

rumple said:

[...]

Click to expand...

If you want unposed/unstaged shots you are really going to have to use natural light or, perhaps, a bit of unobtrusive constant light.

Click to expand...

I don't really agree. Generally after the first half a dozen or so flashes everyone acclimatizes and no longer notices the flash.

But in some circumstances it could be better to avoid strobes. In the venue shown by the OP that would cause me to lean to fast lenses.

rumple said:

However constant lights make little difference to the image unless they are quite bright, quite close or the ambient is very low.

Click to expand...

If the OP contacts the venue in advance they could work with the OP and arrange for better lighting = maybe bounce some continuous lights off of the ceiling. All else being equal. But I would prefer flash or fast lenses.

Click to expand...

Thanks for this advice and the links. I think for this job I'll go with fast lenses, and then start doing some research on lighting in general, as I dont really want to learn on my first job

From your description, it sounds like you really want the lighting to look as natural as possible - like there is daylight coming in evenly across the room, so you can shoot from different angles without harsh shadows.

One "rule" to keep in mind is that the larger the source of the light, the softer the shadows will be. A small camera flash, for example, will often result in a very dramatic shadow behind a person, because the light source measures just a few inches/centimeters across. A large light source, such as a flash bounced off an umbrella, will make the shadows softer.

I have 2 suggestions to consider. The first is to simply use camera flashes/speedlights off-camera, using a remote to trigger them. Don't point them at the people, but point them up at the nice white ceiling. The light bouncing back down should appear more natural, and since they're bouncing off the ceiling, they will be a larger light source, resulting in softer, more natural light. You will need to hide these flashes in the room so they don't show up in the shots. You may just need one flash, but having a couple would probably be wise.

Another option would be to set up a large umbrella. You may be able to use a speedlite/camera flash with it, or you may wish to rent a larger strobe (depending on the size of the room). A strong camera flash, umbrella, stand, and transmitter are all very compact so you could travel with them.

Either way, get there early and run some tests. I do suggest having some extra light with you (vs. depending entirely on natural light). If it's a dark, cloudy day, you'll be glad you did!

As suggested above, I would bounce two heads into the ceiling at opposite sides and set the shutter to catch ambient light. You should be able to get a little modeling light on the faces and not too much contrast.

Robodelfy said:

Ok thanks, so I'd be shooting in the room pictured at the bottom of this post. But this was in mid summer, the sun was coming in the front.

So my main concern is it being winter and gloomy grey weather. Which is why I considered adding some lights. But you said lights won't make that much difference to the scene unless very bright. So I wonder if I'd be creating more hassle for myself and wasting time and money?

Wex have these :

Hire Litepanels Astra 1x1 bi-color LED | Wex Rental

Click to expand...

How will your subjects be placed?

Will your subjects be seated as in the photo or is this just showing the room?

--
Will T.
"Galleries don't hang DxO charts" David Hull

Will T said:

Robodelfy said:

Ok thanks, so I'd be shooting in the room pictured at the bottom of this post. But this was in mid summer, the sun was coming in the front.

So my main concern is it being winter and gloomy grey weather. Which is why I considered adding some lights. But you said lights won't make that much difference to the scene unless very bright. So I wonder if I'd be creating more hassle for myself and wasting time and money?

Wex have these :

https://rental.wexphotovideo.com/hire-litepanels-astra-4x-bi-color-led-7209#productInfo

View attachment 2825142

Click to expand...

How will your subjects be placed?

Will your subjects be seated as in the photo or is this just showing the room?

Click to expand...

It will be a mixture of setups, but most shots will be close ups of one person with some out of focus people in the background. I plan to set up all scenes as close to the door windows at the front as thats where the most light is

Thanks everyone for all the help in this thread, its been very useful