Bird tracking AF add. capabilities and E-M1X vs. E-M1.3

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Hello,

I know the E-M1X is slated to get a firmware update for Bird Tracking AF sometime this winter. What are the chances this will also be suitable for tracking other wildlife? My naive thoughts are that if the AF can track a bird, it would also be able to lock on and track a bigger animal. Thoughts?



Also, what are the chances this update will come to the E-M1.3?

lastly, I have an E-M1.3 and am currently considering on whether to get another or to get the E-M1X. Is the E-M1X basically an E-M1.3 with the HLD-9 grip (plus some functional buttons) or does it feel different in your hands? Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!
 
Hello,

I know the E-M1X is slated to get a firmware update for Bird Tracking AF sometime this winter. What are the chances this will also be suitable for tracking other wildlife? My naive thoughts are that if the AF can track a bird, it would also be able to lock on and track a bigger animal. Thoughts?

Also, what are the chances this update will come to the E-M1.3?

lastly, I have an E-M1.3 and am currently considering on whether to get another or to get the E-M1X. Is the E-M1X basically an E-M1.3 with the HLD-9 grip (plus some functional buttons) or does it feel different in your hands? Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!
I own an M1.3 and like it a lot. I also just ordered an M1X. What I expect from M1.X:

- Better handling with big lenses (I do not like the extra grips)

- Better viewfinder (larger magnification)

- Better ergonomics (e.g., INFO button location)

- GPS
 
Hello,

I know the E-M1X is slated to get a firmware update for Bird Tracking AF sometime this winter. What are the chances this will also be suitable for tracking other wildlife?
It is capable of adding just about anything to the tracking. It's just a question if JiP is going to do that.
My naive thoughts are that if the AF can track a bird, it would also be able to lock on and track a bigger animal. Thoughts?
Once programmed for it, yes. But will JiP invest in that? That is the question you should be asking.
Also, what are the chances this update will come to the E-M1.3?
If it was still Olympus I would say none. With JiP I have no idea.
lastly, I have an E-M1.3 and am currently considering on whether to get another or to get the E-M1X. Is the E-M1X basically an E-M1.3 with the HLD-9 grip (plus some functional buttons) or does it feel different in your hands? Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!
If you shoot a lot with the grip, get the X. I have always hated the flex in the grip on the EM1's. I also don't really know any of the differences between the two cameras so can't comment on what you gain. I do know the X has the field sensors that I have found very useful, didn't think I would be all that interested in them.

Oh, also.............the EM1mk3 will not have the joy stick in the portrait orientation since it uses the grip from the mk2. I would really miss that. The shooting experience between the two is almost exactly the same and I really appreciate that.

my two copper pieces,

Phocal
 
Hello,

I know the E-M1X is slated to get a firmware update for Bird Tracking AF sometime this winter. What are the chances this will also be suitable for tracking other wildlife? My naive thoughts are that if the AF can track a bird, it would also be able to lock on and track a bigger animal. Thoughts?
The detect feature in the E-M1X is based on machine learning ... the algorithm is 'taught' to identify a particular subject by human technicians by showing it tens of thousands of photos and identifying the subject in it.

It started with train, motorsport and airplane detect because vehicles have fairly predictable shapes. And it's relatively east to find a driver in a car once you know where to look.

Airplane detect works for slow, soaring birds like vultures because they resemble aircraft. It doesn't work for, say, finches, because the wings flap quickly (unlike planes) and the shape is quite different.

What I mean to say is, a deer or a rat looks nothing like a bird. It's going to be hard enough to teach it to detect a flapping bird, but birds all have the same 4-6 general shapes. Based on this, I do not expect it to work for other animals. Maybe bats. :-)
Also, what are the chances this update will come to the E-M1.3?
There's nothing in terms of processing power stopping it from working on the Mark iii, but it seems to be more of a marketing decision to restrict AI to the E-M1X. It could also have to do with cooling - the size and shape of the X allows for sufficient cooling for the processors, which might not be possible in the smaller Mk3 even if the new processor is equivalent in power.
lastly, I have an E-M1.3 and am currently considering on whether to get another or to get the E-M1X. Is the E-M1X basically an E-M1.3 with the HLD-9 grip (plus some functional buttons) or does it feel different in your hands? Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!
You will miss out on having the joystick, the shutter in the exact same place, and the fact that you'll need to unscrew the battery grip to replace the in-body battery. Personally, I prefer the flexibility of an add-on grip.
 
The EM1-3 will never get the bid AF update because its processor the truepic IX is an overclocked truepic VIII. And the em1-x has 2 overclocked truepic VIII, so double the power of an em1-3.

The em1.3 can't compete with that.
 
Hello,

I know the E-M1X is slated to get a firmware update for Bird Tracking AF sometime this winter. What are the chances this will also be suitable for tracking other wildlife? My naive thoughts are that if the AF can track a bird, it would also be able to lock on and track a bigger animal. Thoughts?

Also, what are the chances this update will come to the E-M1.3?

lastly, I have an E-M1.3 and am currently considering on whether to get another or to get the E-M1X. Is the E-M1X basically an E-M1.3 with the HLD-9 grip (plus some functional buttons) or does it feel different in your hands? Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!
I own an M1.3 and like it a lot. I also just ordered an M1X. What I expect from M1.X:

- Better handling with big lenses (I do not like the extra grips)

- Better viewfinder (larger magnification)

- Better ergonomics (e.g., INFO button location)

- GPS
Don’t loose your sleep on this feature it will not be as effective on moving subject as you working with CAF
 
Hello,

I know the E-M1X is slated to get a firmware update for Bird Tracking AF sometime this winter. What are the chances this will also be suitable for tracking other wildlife? My naive thoughts are that if the AF can track a bird, it would also be able to lock on and track a bigger animal. Thoughts?

Also, what are the chances this update will come to the E-M1.3?

lastly, I have an E-M1.3 and am currently considering on whether to get another or to get the E-M1X. Is the E-M1X basically an E-M1.3 with the HLD-9 grip (plus some functional buttons) or does it feel different in your hands? Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!
I own an M1.3 and like it a lot. I also just ordered an M1X. What I expect from M1.X:

- Better handling with big lenses (I do not like the extra grips)

- Better viewfinder (larger magnification)

- Better ergonomics (e.g., INFO button location)

- GPS
Don’t loose your sleep on this feature it will not be as effective on moving subject as you working with CAF
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. The current modes are extremely effective with moving targets, it's just that they only apply to a small niche of targets, and I would expect any new modes to perform similarly.
 
The other feature that is on the M1X and not found on the other bodies would be the GPS capability. For some folks that's not a big deal, but for wildlife photographers it is a very handy feature, at least IMHO
 
The EM1-3 will never get the bid AF update because its processor the truepic IX is an overclocked truepic VIII. And the em1-x has 2 overclocked truepic VIII, so double the power of an em1-3.

The em1.3 can't compete with that.
How do you know that?

You need a lot of data, computing power and resources to train the software what is a bird eye in many different situations. It's not requiring a lot of power to run the result.

Let's hope that Olympus have planed to implement this software to E-M1 iii as well. I suspect this is more a marketing decition than anything else.
 
Hello,

I know the E-M1X is slated to get a firmware update for Bird Tracking AF sometime this winter.
What are the chances this will also be suitable for tracking other wildlife?
I don’t know that one requires an Ai feature for shooting other wildlife. The AF system is pretty good on its own.
My naive thoughts are that if the AF can track a bird, it would also be able to lock on and track a bigger animal. Thoughts?

Also, what are the chances this update will come to the E-M1.3?
the 1X is equipped with two processors. The em1.3 has 1 processor (some suggest the mk3’s new single processor is more powerful than the 1X’s two). They are different cameras. I say don’t be surprised if/when they do not share the exact same features.
lastly, I have an E-M1.3 and am currently considering on whether to get another or to get the E-M1X. Is the E-M1X basically an E-M1.3 with the HLD-9 grip (plus some functional buttons) or does it feel different in your hands? Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!
 
Hello,

I know the E-M1X is slated to get a firmware update for Bird Tracking AF sometime this winter. What are the chances this will also be suitable for tracking other wildlife? My naive thoughts are that if the AF can track a bird, it would also be able to lock on and track a bigger animal. Thoughts?

Also, what are the chances this update will come to the E-M1.3?

lastly, I have an E-M1.3 and am currently considering on whether to get another or to get the E-M1X. Is the E-M1X basically an E-M1.3 with the HLD-9 grip (plus some functional buttons) or does it feel different in your hands? Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!
I own an M1.3 and like it a lot. I also just ordered an M1X. What I expect from M1.X:

- Better handling with big lenses (I do not like the extra grips)

- Better viewfinder (larger magnification)

- Better ergonomics (e.g., INFO button location)

- GPS
Don’t loose your sleep on this feature it will not be as effective on moving subject as you working with CAF
I assume that was a reply to nickels25, not to me, though my post is quoted :).
 
Hello,

I know the E-M1X is slated to get a firmware update for Bird Tracking AF sometime this winter. What are the chances this will also be suitable for tracking other wildlife? My naive thoughts are that if the AF can track a bird, it would also be able to lock on and track a bigger animal. Thoughts?

Also, what are the chances this update will come to the E-M1.3?

lastly, I have an E-M1.3 and am currently considering on whether to get another or to get the E-M1X. Is the E-M1X basically an E-M1.3 with the HLD-9 grip (plus some functional buttons) or does it feel different in your hands? Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!
I own an M1.3 and like it a lot. I also just ordered an M1X. What I expect from M1.X:

- Better handling with big lenses (I do not like the extra grips)

- Better viewfinder (larger magnification)

- Better ergonomics (e.g., INFO button location)

- GPS
Don’t loose your sleep on this feature it will not be as effective on moving subject as you working with CAF
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. The current modes are extremely effective with moving targets, it's just that they only apply to a small niche of targets, and I would expect any new modes to perform similarly.
AI requires the whole frame to be created as it needs to detect a shape so it only works in very clear situations not on critical fast moving because it processes 60 fps at full resolution or 240 as something like 1080 pixels which is really low. My experience with the Panasonic G9 was quite disappointing and I ended up switching it off for birds. It was ok for cats, dogs, people etc but not really giving me anything I don't have already. Perhaps Olympus has a strike of genius here but I would not hold my breath

--
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The other feature that is on the M1X and not found on the other bodies would be the GPS capability. For some folks that's not a big deal, but for wildlife photographers it is a very handy feature, at least IMHO
How so?

I'm not arguing against your statement. I just am unaware of GPS's usefulness relating to image captures.

so far, i've never shot a picture that i forgot where it was taken or needed to know exactly where it was taken because very few animals/wildlife are in the exact same place, day to day, in my experience.

what am i missing?
 
The other feature that is on the M1X and not found on the other bodies would be the GPS capability. For some folks that's not a big deal, but for wildlife photographers it is a very handy feature, at least IMHO
How so?

I'm not arguing against your statement. I just am unaware of GPS's usefulness relating to image captures.

so far, i've never shot a picture that i forgot where it was taken or needed to know exactly where it was taken because very few animals/wildlife are in the exact same place, day to day, in my experience.

what am i missing?
It probably depends on how much you are traveling and shooting, but I cannot imagine that anyone can remember exact places where images are taken unless one has an eidetic memory. Of course, one may not need exact locations.

- GPS is useful for image selection: use LrC maps to select all images from a certain location.

- GPS is useful to reshoot an image at the same location.

- GPS is useful to add exact location keywords to an image.

Before GPS, photographers were using notebooks to be able to remember the shooting locations. Others did not care about the exact location or found it too cumbersome to use a notebook.
 
The other feature that is on the M1X and not found on the other bodies would be the GPS capability. For some folks that's not a big deal, but for wildlife photographers it is a very handy feature, at least IMHO
How so?

I'm not arguing against your statement. I just am unaware of GPS's usefulness relating to image captures.

so far, i've never shot a picture that i forgot where it was taken
I guess when you only go to parks that have man made trails to follow that is pretty easy. I have a number of places that without GPS coordinates you will never get back to until you have made many trips there. Even then some of them are super tricky to get to, especially the ones deep in swamps where the waterways are constantly changing how and where they run.
or needed to know exactly where it was taken because very few animals/wildlife are in the exact same place, day to day, in my experience.
You should probably spend more time in the wilderness and up that experience. Almost all animals have a place they sleep every night, a place they feed from as well as a water source. They will follow the same path (more or less) to and from these places on a very regular basis. Some have small ranges and can be found coming down the same path at the same time every day. Others have huge ranges and it may only be every 2-3 days or sometimes longer, depending on how big the range is. I should also point out that these 3 main places (sleep, food, water) will change as the seasons change and if you follow the same animal over years you will see that even those places are the same from year to year. That is until something causes it to change like drought, or fire, or flooding, or men clearing the forest.

A large rain can change that pattern because it may cause a particular plant to suddenly grow. If that is a food source for the animal they will know about it and go there to get that easy food. If they are a prey animal like rabbit going to a place after a rain the predators of the rabbit will also go there. Many times these places are the same every time there is a big rain.

Raptors (eagles, hawks, owls) tend to have a handful of places they like to hunt from and will always use the same perch to watch for prey from. They move between those spots based on sun position as well as wind direction. Once you learn those habits it easy to find the same bird in the same spot on a regular basis. Even birds like Kingfishers have the same hunting perch that they use over and over and over again.

Granted, you can do all this with a standalone GPS unit. Which is what I have been doing for years now. But having the ability in the camera has made a lot of things easier. When I find say Lynx tracks I would mark it on the GPS and then have to label it as Lynx tracks. Now I can just take a photo of the tracks and later when at home I can sync up all the data. It has just made things simpler when in the field, especially in the winter when taking off gloves to type on the GPS is just uncomfortable and at times down right miserable (like when it is -40F with 20mph winds).

So, you can get along without it in the camera ( I have for years)...........you are right. But you are completely wrong about animals not being in the same spot day to day. I really do suggest you get a bit more experience on this before speaking about it.
what am i missing?
Lots
 
The other feature that is on the M1X and not found on the other bodies would be the GPS capability. For some folks that's not a big deal, but for wildlife photographers it is a very handy feature, at least IMHO
How so?

I'm not arguing against your statement. I just am unaware of GPS's usefulness relating to image captures.

so far, i've never shot a picture that i forgot where it was taken or needed to know exactly where it was taken because very few animals/wildlife are in the exact same place, day to day, in my experience.

what am i missing?
i did assume camera manufacturers had good reason to include the feature into their bodies...i can't imagine it does not come without a cost...i just have a very narrow mind...but a great memory too it seems. maybe 25 years surveying/working in the deepest of back country/bush/forest has tuned that part of my brain up a little.

thanks for education.
 
Hello,

I know the E-M1X is slated to get a firmware update for Bird Tracking AF sometime this winter. What are the chances this will also be suitable for tracking other wildlife? My naive thoughts are that if the AF can track a bird, it would also be able to lock on and track a bigger animal. Thoughts?

Also, what are the chances this update will come to the E-M1.3?

lastly, I have an E-M1.3 and am currently considering on whether to get another or to get the E-M1X. Is the E-M1X basically an E-M1.3 with the HLD-9 grip (plus some functional buttons) or does it feel different in your hands? Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!
What they could do on all of these models is make it easier to set up AF limit to eliminate background from AF. Like focus on background, focus on target (or where target will be), split the difference on the AF limiter, and BOOM! Which is what I do using MF prefocus and then manually enter the numbers in the AF limiter. Which makes using AF limiter a real pain.
 
The other feature that is on the M1X and not found on the other bodies would be the GPS capability. For some folks that's not a big deal, but for wildlife photographers it is a very handy feature, at least IMHO
How so?

I'm not arguing against your statement. I just am unaware of GPS's usefulness relating to image captures.

so far, i've never shot a picture that i forgot where it was taken
I guess when you only go to parks that have man made trails to follow that is pretty easy.
"you" means me?

i'll gladly go to those parks all day everyday, the closer the better, if there is plenty enough subject matter to satisfy my needs. i'll bring the family along too.

maybe working and growing up in the mountains/wilderness (in western canada...kinda known for having some pretty sizable areas of pristine [off the beaten path] wilderness) makes the wilderness less magical and less of a draw to me than to some.

add to that...two similar pictures of a chickadee sitting in a poplar tree are just that... similar pictures. i don't give a hoot which one came from the deepest part of the bush and which one came from someone's back yard.

to be honest...packing into the bush for a week and coming out with one picture of a bird which i can get 100's of at the local park is...well...you can guess the ending to that sentence.

i have no issue of going off trail when need be and have never required the use of GPS equipment (i have thousands of hours using GPS equipment to earn a living) to get me to/fro anywhere in any terrain all over North America (except for the the everglades...i've never worked in the everglades...just been there on holidays).

i have a decent sense of direction except inside large shopping malls...there i defer to my wife's guidance.
I have a number of places that without GPS coordinates you will never get back to until you have made many trips there. Even then some of them are super tricky to get to, especially the ones deep in swamps where the waterways are constantly changing how and where they run.
or needed to know exactly where it was taken because very few animals/wildlife are in the exact same place, day to day, in my experience.
You should probably spend more time in the wilderness and up that experience.

Almost all animals have a place they sleep every night, a place they feed from as well as a water source. They will follow the same path (more or less) to and from these places on a very regular basis. Some have small ranges and can be found coming down the same path at the same time every day. Others have huge ranges and it may only be every 2-3 days or sometimes longer, depending on how big the range is. I should also point out that these 3 main places (sleep, food, water) will change as the seasons change and if you follow the same animal over years you will see that even those places are the same from year to year. That is until something causes it to change like drought, or fire, or flooding, or men clearing the forest.

A large rain can change that pattern because it may cause a particular plant to suddenly grow. If that is a food source for the animal they will know about it and go there to get that easy food. If they are a prey animal like rabbit going to a place after a rain the predators of the rabbit will also go there. Many times these places are the same every time there is a big rain.

Raptors (eagles, hawks, owls) tend to have a handful of places they like to hunt from and will always use the same perch to watch for prey from. They move between those spots based on sun position as well as wind direction. Once you learn those habits it easy to find the same bird in the same spot on a regular basis. Even birds like Kingfishers have the same hunting perch that they use over and over and over again.

Granted, you can do all this with a standalone GPS unit. Which is what I have been doing for years now. But having the ability in the camera has made a lot of things easier. When I find say Lynx tracks I would mark it on the GPS and then have to label it as Lynx tracks. Now I can just take a photo of the tracks and later when at home I can sync up all the data. It has just made things simpler when in the field, especially in the winter when taking off gloves to type on the GPS is just uncomfortable and at times down right miserable (like when it is -40F with 20mph winds).

So, you can get along without it in the camera ( I have for years)...........you are right. But you are completely wrong about animals not being in the same spot day to day. I really do suggest you get a bit more experience on this before speaking about it.
what am i missing?
Lots
--
as always,
thank you fellow DPR members for your kind words and encouragement.
 
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Hello,

I know the E-M1X is slated to get a firmware update for Bird Tracking AF sometime this winter. What are the chances this will also be suitable for tracking other wildlife? My naive thoughts are that if the AF can track a bird, it would also be able to lock on and track a bigger animal. Thoughts?

Also, what are the chances this update will come to the E-M1.3?

lastly, I have an E-M1.3 and am currently considering on whether to get another or to get the E-M1X. Is the E-M1X basically an E-M1.3 with the HLD-9 grip (plus some functional buttons) or does it feel different in your hands? Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!
What they could do on all of these models is make it easier to set up AF limit to eliminate background from AF. Like focus on background, focus on target (or where target will be), split the difference on the AF limiter, and BOOM! Which is what I do using MF prefocus and then manually enter the numbers in the AF limiter. Which makes using AF limiter a real pain.
that's good advice and i do the same.

there are '3' factory AF limit settings on the lens (4/300) and i have two of the three in-camera AF limit settings set to compliment the lens's AF limit settings. i don't adjust those two in-camera AF limit settings.

i use the third in-camera AF limit setting to set according to where i'm at (if i'm standing still long enough at any certain spot) as you describe. i find it a rather quick and painless process though.
 
Hello,

I know the E-M1X is slated to get a firmware update for Bird Tracking AF sometime this winter. What are the chances this will also be suitable for tracking other wildlife? My naive thoughts are that if the AF can track a bird, it would also be able to lock on and track a bigger animal. Thoughts?
The detect feature in the E-M1X is based on machine learning ... the algorithm is 'taught' to identify a particular subject by human technicians by showing it tens of thousands of photos and identifying the subject in it.

It started with train, motorsport and airplane detect because vehicles have fairly predictable shapes. And it's relatively east to find a driver in a car once you know where to look.

Airplane detect works for slow, soaring birds like vultures because they resemble aircraft. It doesn't work for, say, finches, because the wings flap quickly (unlike planes) and the shape is quite different.

What I mean to say is, a deer or a rat looks nothing like a bird. It's going to be hard enough to teach it to detect a flapping bird, but birds all have the same 4-6 general shapes. Based on this, I do not expect it to work for other animals. Maybe bats. :-)
Also, what are the chances this update will come to the E-M1.3?
There's nothing in terms of processing power stopping it from working on the Mark iii, but it seems to be more of a marketing decision to restrict AI to the E-M1X. It could also have to do with cooling - the size and shape of the X allows for sufficient cooling for the processors, which might not be possible in the smaller Mk3 even if the new processor is equivalent in power.
I was hoping to see if the E-M1.3 could handle the heat load on the American Cancer Society Philly Bike-a-thon at the endpoint, but the coronavirus debacle caused the event to be canceled. I overheated an E-M1.2 in 2017, and the E-M1X handled the load in 2019. Unfortunately, I'll never know if the E-M1.3 can handle the load as I'm now down to a GX-8 and the 8-18mm/2.8-4.0 in M43 world.

lastly, I have an E-M1.3 and am currently considering on whether to get another or to get the E-M1X. Is the E-M1X basically an E-M1.3 with the HLD-9 grip (plus some functional buttons) or does it feel different in your hands? Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!
You will miss out on having the joystick, the shutter in the exact same place, and the fact that you'll need to unscrew the battery grip to replace the in-body battery. Personally, I prefer the flexibility of an add-on grip.
 

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