Inconsistent IBIS Results on Sony A7Riv

While testing out my new Sony A7Riv with the Sony 50mm f/1.8, I noticed that some of my handheld shots with shutter speeds in the range on 1/00-/200 looked blurry, while others did not. While overall IBIS shots seemed more likely to be acceptably sharp, there was very little correlation between sharpness and IBIS use. Some IBIS shots were blurry while some non-IBIS shots were sharp.

Therefore, I took dozens of handheld shots at 1/100 with the same aperture of roughly the same composition from my deck. I used back button autofocus to focus on a drainage structure and only focused once for the test. I took some shots with IBIS and some shots without IBIS. I tried to hold the camera as still as possible for every shot. I zoomed into the drainage structure to test sharpness while reviewing the photos. I kept track of which shots I used IBIS on and which I did not by following a pattern I wrote out ahead of time. Although I used EFC for most shots and waited at least two seconds between shots, I also tried some shots with electronic shutter.

My observations were confirmed. There were a disappointing number of blurry shots overall. EFC vs. electronic shutter didn't seem to make a difference. While IBIS shots fared better overall, several non-IBIS shots were sharp while several IBIS shots were blurry.

Has anyone else had this experience? If someone else with an A7Riv is willing to do a similar test and let me know what you found, that would be awesome! I know a 61mp sensor means movement blur will be more visible at the same percentage crop/zoom compared to the 24mp full-frame sensor on the Lumix S1 I am used to. But why aren't my shots taken with IBIS consistently better at such a relatively high shutter speed?

Below are two sample shots cropped to the object I focused on (beautiful, I know). The first was taken with IBIS off, the second was taken with IBIS on.


IBIS off


IBIS on

Some housekeeping to check first. Camera is in AF-S mode, metering is not spot meter, motor drive is single. You want to use Focus priority not release priority. All this for stationary subject matter. You want to see that solid green dot for focus confirmation

I would set ISO to auto.

First shot let the camera do the work so auto exposure then play with it.

If you are just testing lens sharpness.

Other possibilities is lens or camera damage, impact or liquid for example, for a one off.

Next is to trouble shoot to determine if it is the lens or camera. Only way is to use a different camera and a different lens in different combination to determine if that is a problem.

Last thought is be sure the camera diopter is set correctly

Use the A position. Sounds like you are totaly lost in your manual settings.

LenRivers said:

Some housekeeping to check first. Camera is in AF-S mode, metering is not spot meter, motor drive is single. You want to use Focus priority not release priority. All this for stationary subject matter. You want to see that solid green dot for focus confirmation

I would set ISO to auto.

First shot let the camera do the work so auto exposure then play with it.

If you are just testing lens sharpness.

Other possibilities is lens or camera damage, impact or liquid for example, for a one off.

Next is to trouble shoot to determine if it is the lens or camera. Only way is to use a different camera and a different lens in different combination to determine if that is a problem.

Last thought is be sure the camera diopter is set correctly

Click to expand...

My concern is the performance of IBIS, not autofocus. As I stated, I used back button autofocus and focused once for the series. While I used the focus settings you mentioned, that is not relevant since the focus was the same for all of the images in the series. I shot in M mode to keep aperture and SS (1/100) the same across the series. ISO was set at 100. I was testing IBIS, so I wanted to keep all settings the same across the images as I switched between IBIS on and off, except that I tried EFC and electronic shutter settings to rule out sporadic shutter shock (if such a thing exists).

It would be helpful if someone else who has an A7Riv could replicate my experiment, at least for a series of 10 images (half IBIS on, half IBIS off) with EFC, back button focus once at the start of the series, ISO 100, SS 1/100, and consistent aperture. I will try it with my Panasonic G85 to see if maybe I am just terrible at holding my camera still (despite the lower pixel density, I will notice if the sharpness doesn't correspond with whether IBIS was on or off). I don't think I took a handheld shot since January before I got the A7Riv.

TittyTwister said:

Use the A position. Sounds like you are totaly lost in your manual settings.

Click to expand...

So you think the problem is that I shot in M rather than in A at the same aperture with exposure compensation adjusted to achieve the same shutter speed? As if that has anything to do with the sharpness of the photos. I may be an amateur who has a lot to learn, but I am far past being "totally lost" in M. Sigh.

With that said, I just realized the blurry IBIS image in my original post was shot at 1/40 shutter speed while the sharp non-IBIS image was shot at 1/00 shutter speed. I also did a series at 1/40 and found the same results. I kept track of whether IBIS was on, but not my shutter speed. I forgot to check the shutter speed, so I mixed photos from the different series. It looks like there's no way to edit my first post, so I may post corrected images in a new post or restart the thread. I messed up bigly.

I noticed the same on occasion with both my old R3 and now R4 bodies...i think the IBIS overcompensates at times... tough to determine the sweet spot where you are better off without it.

I get the impression that the Z7 and S1R i own seem to not do this.

while i shoot the r4, i have to hold still like a rock, make sure i am stable and my shutter speed is 1/2 higher than i would normally for the FL. otherwise i get movement blur.

thats what i see in your 1/40 picture, you did move. 61mp just is prone for movement.

First, you need to check the AF accuracy spread.
Tripod, IBIS OFF and a few photos then check the accuracy of the IBIS

JohnWick4001 said:

I noticed the same on occasion with both my old R3 and now R4 bodies...i think the IBIS overcompensates at times... tough to determine the sweet spot where you are better off without it.

I get the impression that the Z7 and S1R i own seem to not do this.

Click to expand...

That's a major bummer. It seems as if I can expect a not insubstantial number of handheld shots at moderate shutter speeds to be blurry, even with IBIS. On another topic, does Sony not have single point autofocus? Someday, once I obtain the requisite PhD to figure out the settings, I may use the A7Riv's amazing autofocus and tracking abilities. But mainly I prize accurate autofocus, as should any nonaction photographer. The reviews tend to focus on autofocus speed rather than accuracy.

jan pawlak said:

First, you need to check the AF accuracy spread.
Tripod, IBIS OFF and a few photos then check the accuracy of the IBIS

Click to expand...

For comparison, below is a crop of from a tripod shut with IBIS off and two-second shutter delay.

It looks like this might be one of the issues that was reported in the 'early' days of the R7iv. A couple of things that might be of help: do you use the latest firmware on the camera (version 1.20)? Also, there are a couple of settings that are helpful in achieving sharp autofocus and they are:

- Priority set to AF

- Aperture drive set to STD

- Phase detection set to ON

- Steadyshot set to ON

Perhaps you could confirm whether these were set?

It is possible to use AF-S over AF-C though and that may help for stationary subjects.

Nevertheless I have experienced your issues also with higher shutter speeds, such as 1/200 and 1/250. For me that was the main reason to not buy the A7riv and keep using the A7riii, which does not exhibit this kind of strange behaviour.

Platographer said:

That's a major bummer. It seems as if I can expect a not insubstantial number of handheld shots at moderate shutter speeds to be blurry, even with IBIS.

Click to expand...

the R4 requires faster shutter speeds. shutter speed focal length rule does not give good results.

Platographer said:

On another topic, does Sony not have single point autofocus?

Click to expand...

Try a "Flexible Spot" mode. Different sizes are available.

I prefer "Expand Flexible Spot", and use it most often. AF works fine for me.

Off the top I forget how this works. If you can set a minimum shutter speed and If the camera can’t meet certain parameters it borrows from other parts of the exposure triangle.



personally I would shoot in full auto. It is very possible you are not steady when you press the shutter. If you press the shutter button too hard you can push the camera in that direction ever so slightly shaking the camera. While i shoot the A7iii it won’t matter. All cameras work the same.



even with ibis the starting point for hand held as a general statement should be the reciprocal shutter speed rule. 1 over the focal length.



if all is still an issue it can always be a defective hardware issue. If the camera is new I’d return it right away and buy a second copy. Couple years ago I made the mistake with a different camera sending it to the manufacturer for repair while the camera was still under a return policy. They consider the camera call it tampered with and would not take it back as I had to return the camera multiple times to the manufacturer till I gave up and just sold it as a used item at a substantial loss. I should have known better and that scenario won’t happen again.

RE Alpha said:

It looks like this might be one of the issues that was reported in the 'early' days of the R7iv. A couple of things that might be of help: do you use the latest firmware on the camera (version 1.20)? Also, there are a couple of settings that are helpful in achieving sharp autofocus and they are:

- Priority set to AF

- Aperture drive set to STD

- Phase detection set to ON

- Steadyshot set to ON

Perhaps you could confirm whether these were set?

It is possible to use AF-S over AF-C though and that may help for stationary subjects.

Nevertheless I have experienced your issues also with higher shutter speeds, such as 1/200 and 1/250. For me that was the main reason to not buy the A7riv and keep using the A7riii, which does not exhibit this kind of strange behaviour.

Click to expand...

As I noted, my test included shots taken with and without SteadyShot (i.e., IBIS) A lot of replies on this thread talk about autofocus as it pertains to my main inquiry. I am quite baffled by this. How does autofocus affect IBIS? Can you describe the issues you had at 1/200 shutter speed? What focal length were you using? Did you shoot both with and without IBIS?

Platographer said:

RE Alpha said:

It looks like this might be one of the issues that was reported in the 'early' days of the R7iv. A couple of things that might be of help: do you use the latest firmware on the camera (version 1.20)? Also, there are a couple of settings that are helpful in achieving sharp autofocus and they are:

- Priority set to AF

- Aperture drive set to STD

- Phase detection set to ON

- Steadyshot set to ON

Perhaps you could confirm whether these were set?

It is possible to use AF-S over AF-C though and that may help for stationary subjects.

Nevertheless I have experienced your issues also with higher shutter speeds, such as 1/200 and 1/250. For me that was the main reason to not buy the A7riv and keep using the A7riii, which does not exhibit this kind of strange behaviour.

Click to expand...

As I noted, my test included shots taken with and without SteadyShot (i.e., IBIS) A lot of replies on this thread talk about autofocus as it pertains to my main inquiry. I am quite baffled by this. How does autofocus affect IBIS? Can you describe the issues you had at 1/200 shutter speed? What focal length were you using? Did you shoot both with and without IBIS?

Click to expand...

Yes, indeed you did mention that you were shooting with and without IBIS. Sorry for that. I did not shoot without IBIS. All shots I were hand held.

I used the camera for one day for a big fashion shoot in the studio and used the 85GM and 135GM that day. From the results there was no difference between the 85 and 135 in terms of sharp images. The camera just failed randomly. Models do move around in a fashion shoot, but not by much. Although a studio is always dimly lit, the modelling lights were 'on'. The A7riv was et-up the same way as my A7riii to the extent possible as the rev had some new options.

A lot of the images (app 30%) were just out-of-focus, which is a huge number compared to what I experience with the A7riii (less than 1%). And the type of shoot was the same of course. Also I only fully press the shutter when there is a green confirmation point. I have to say that I used the camera in the early days of its availability and the firmware version was not 1.20 at the time. There have been more reports about the unreliability of the autofocus in the early days. Also DPR mentions this in their test report of the A7riv.

So it could be your camera originates from the early batch? General, the complains have faded away, but you bring it back up again. Hope this helps you and present some more background.

Austinian said:

Platographer said:

On another topic, does Sony not have single point autofocus?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

No. Because it's using a lot of PDAF points. While the 5D4 has 63, the A7R4 has 567. They're smaller, too. It's not practical to select individually from more than 500 points, and it's not reasonable, since the small spot will cover similar area to a single DSLR point.

Austinian said:

Try a "Flexible Spot" mode. Different sizes are available.

I prefer "Expand Flexible Spot", and use it most often. AF works fine for me.

Click to expand...

--
A7R2 with SEL2470Z and a number of adapted lenses (Canon FD, Minolta AF, Canon EF, Leica, Nikon...); A7R converted to IR.

Platographer said:

RE Alpha said:

It looks like this might be one of the issues that was reported in the 'early' days of the R7iv. A couple of things that might be of help: do you use the latest firmware on the camera (version 1.20)? Also, there are a couple of settings that are helpful in achieving sharp autofocus and they are:

- Priority set to AF

- Aperture drive set to STD

- Phase detection set to ON

- Steadyshot set to ON

Perhaps you could confirm whether these were set?

It is possible to use AF-S over AF-C though and that may help for stationary subjects.

Nevertheless I have experienced your issues also with higher shutter speeds, such as 1/200 and 1/250. For me that was the main reason to not buy the A7riv and keep using the A7riii, which does not exhibit this kind of strange behaviour.

Click to expand...

As I noted, my test included shots taken with and without SteadyShot (i.e., IBIS) A lot of replies on this thread talk about autofocus as it pertains to my main inquiry. I am quite baffled by this. How does autofocus affect IBIS? Can you describe the issues you had at 1/200 shutter speed? What focal length were you using? Did you shoot both with and without IBIS?

Click to expand...

the faulty pic is clearly not an autofocus problem, nothing in the frame is sharp.

if you didn't change your distance to the target, you only need to focus once, at the beginning of the test sequence, i don't know if that was stated in the first post?

the problem with what you are doing is that human hand movement varies with every shot, that's why cipa stabilization tests are done on a mechanical vibration rig.

it looks to me like you have shakey hands, given the shutter speed, or perhaps there is an issue with the ibis on that camera, see the jimk a7riv vs. a7riii ibis test:

"The reason that the a7RIV is sharper at high shutter speeds is that the camera has a smaller pixel aperture due to its finer pixel pitch. It’s go nothing to do with IBIS. But the a7RIV curve is flatter, indicating that the IBIS is working a little better. Not night and day, but not nothing, either. Note that when things go to hell with the a7RIV, they do so more dramatically." https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/a7riv-vs-a7riii-ibis-oss-performance/

MILC man said:

Platographer said:

RE Alpha said:

It looks like this might be one of the issues that was reported in the 'early' days of the R7iv. A couple of things that might be of help: do you use the latest firmware on the camera (version 1.20)? Also, there are a couple of settings that are helpful in achieving sharp autofocus and they are:

- Priority set to AF

- Aperture drive set to STD

- Phase detection set to ON

- Steadyshot set to ON

Perhaps you could confirm whether these were set?

It is possible to use AF-S over AF-C though and that may help for stationary subjects.

Nevertheless I have experienced your issues also with higher shutter speeds, such as 1/200 and 1/250. For me that was the main reason to not buy the A7riv and keep using the A7riii, which does not exhibit this kind of strange behaviour.

Click to expand...

As I noted, my test included shots taken with and without SteadyShot (i.e., IBIS) A lot of replies on this thread talk about autofocus as it pertains to my main inquiry. I am quite baffled by this. How does autofocus affect IBIS? Can you describe the issues you had at 1/200 shutter speed? What focal length were you using? Did you shoot both with and without IBIS?

Click to expand...

the faulty pic is clearly not an autofocus problem, nothing in the frame is sharp.

if you didn't change your distance to the target, you only need to focus once, at the beginning of the test sequence, i don't know if that was stated in the first post?

the problem with what you are doing is that human hand movement varies with every shot, that's why cipa stabilization tests are done on a mechanical vibration rig.

it looks to me like you have shakey hands, given the shutter speed, or perhaps there is an issue with the ibis on that camera, see the jimk a7riv vs. a7riii ibis test:

"The reason that the a7RIV is sharper at high shutter speeds is that the camera has a smaller pixel aperture due to its finer pixel pitch. It’s go nothing to do with IBIS. But the a7RIV curve is flatter, indicating that the IBIS is working a little better. Not night and day, but not nothing, either. Note that when things go to hell with the a7RIV, they do so more dramatically." https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/a7riv-vs-a7riii-ibis-oss-performance/

Click to expand...

It is a crop (~100%) from the full photo, so almost the entire image is not included. Nonetheless, I am puzzled as to why people think it is an autofocus issue when, as I explained several times, I used back button autofocus to focus once and did not refocus between shots. I have never heard of autofocus affecting the functioning of IBIS, but I also only recently realized that the larger apertures at the same f-stop on full-frame cameras compared to crop sensor cameras does not increase exposure because it is relative to the sensor size. So you never know what elementary information I am lacking.

RE Alpha said:

It looks like this might be one of the issues that was reported in the 'early' days of the R7iv. A couple of things that might be of help: do you use the latest firmware on the camera (version 1.20)? Also, there are a couple of settings that are helpful in achieving sharp autofocus and they are:

- Priority set to AF

- Aperture drive set to STD

- Phase detection set to ON

- Steadyshot set to ON

Perhaps you could confirm whether these were set?

It is possible to use AF-S over AF-C though and that may help for stationary subjects.

Nevertheless I have experienced your issues also with higher shutter speeds, such as 1/200 and 1/250. For me that was the main reason to not buy the A7riv and keep using the A7riii, which does not exhibit this kind of strange behaviour.

Click to expand...

Hmm... It seems like your issue may have been related to autofocus whereas the blurriness in my photos is from camera/sensor movement.

Because you're using very fast shutter speeds, if you're so shaky that you get blur at 1/100s then you are shaking too much for the IBIS to compensate for.

When I'm shooting at shutter speeds that would actually benefit from IBIS like 1/10, there's a night and day difference.

Andy873 said:

Because you're using very fast shutter speeds, if you're so shaky that you get blur at 1/100s then you are shaking too much for the IBIS to compensate for.

When I'm shooting at shutter speeds that would actually benefit from IBIS like 1/10, there's a night and day difference.

Click to expand...

But how could unchanged focus affect the sharpness? It makes no sense.

I'm not that shaky. I did some more testing and found a higher correlation to sharpness with IBIS shots compared to non-IBIS shots, but I'm still getting too many blurry shots for my liking. Below are the results of my unscientific review at max zoom on the camera LCD (I tried to apply equal standards for which photos I deemed sharp within each shutter speed):

SS 1/20: none of the 11 non-IBIS shots were sharp, while 10 of the 14 IBIS shots were sharp

SS 1/50: six of the 13 non-IBIS shots were sharp, while 11 of the 17 IBIS shots were sharp

SS 1/100: five of the 10 non-IBIS shots were sharp, while 13 of the 15 IBIS shots were sharp.

I'm really worried my camera's IBIS system is messed up. I hope that it's just me being bad at handheld shooting, but I don't think I shake that much. These are pretty bad results, right? Back when I shot handheld all the time, I had a bad habit of taking multiple photos of the same composition, so maybe this won't ultimately have much of a practical effect.