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I think GH6 will come before Olympic 2021.

Panny may intentionally offer S5 before GH6 for customer to upgrade to S line, new revenue stream. S5 is nearly a perfect hybrid camera for the price, except for AF (in some situations) and EVF. They may want to see the S5 market response first. But GH6 will come for sure; there is no business reason not to, given the huge GH5 and m43 customer base now (compare with extremely little S-line customer base).

Now, Panny already have SEVEN 10-bit video hybrid MRL cameras, the first one since nearly 4 years ago, where as other FF just start to have 10-bit video in MRL "last month", all with high price tag, 2-3 times more expensive than G9.
 
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MFiftysomething said:
This is unusual and welcome update for us -it is mostly L mount which looks promising but M43 discussed towards end.


Hopefully this is a new way of communicating from Pana!
Click to expand...
Okay, first things first...

What camera is shown at 1 min 50 sec??? Kinda looks like a rangefinder-style L mount body?

Next, if you are going to make an English video...especially for the western world they could have gotten someone who can more naturally speak the language and more importantly, someone who has more stage presence. Yes, he's a high Japanese exec...I understand but still... And just so you know, I'm Japanese and although I see such routinely, it still makes me wonder what the marketing guys were thinking...

As for the video contents, I actually think the S5 is a pretty good release. I hope it does well.

And finally, again, what is that camera?
 
Raist3d said:
JakeJY said:
Raist3d said:
JakeJY said:
Raist3d said:
notice how this is pitched in the video as being as small and as compact as the GH5.. then billed as the Ultimate Hybrid Camera.

That's no longer the GH5 according to Panasonic's message.
Click to expand...
"Ultimate Hybrid" is a marketing label they have used in multiple cameras.

Here's the G9:

"The Ultimate Hybrid Camera Launch | Lumix G9"

Click to expand...
Of course, but that was then, this is now.
Member said:
Here's the S1:

"Ultimate Hybrid. Propel Your Photo and Video Passion."

https://www.panasonic.com/ca/consumer/cameras-camcorders/mirrorless-cameras/full-frame/dc-s1.html

FZ2500:

"Panasonic announces ultimate hybrid camera: LUMIX DMC-FZ2500"

https://news.panasonic.com.au/2016/...nces-ultimate-hybrid-camera-lumix-dmc-fz2500/

I know you are trying to push the narrative that the S5 is replacing the GH5, but this video makes it clear it's not, given they mentioned a GH successor coming separate from the S5.
Click to expand...
They sure have said before people can upgrade from GH5 to S5. At least in a a discussion Panel with a Panasonic representative where other ambassador photographers commented including BHPhoto and Panasonic didn't say peep.
Click to expand...
Other third parties moving from a GH5 to a S5 is irrelevant to the point of whether the S5 is the successor to the GH5. There are plenty of people that moved from the GH5 to a GH5S, but that doesn't mean the GH5S is the successor to the GH5.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't make that comparison there. You are still moving within m43rds.
Member said:
Point is Panasonic is officially saying here that the S5 is not the successor to the GH5 and there's another camera coming that will be.
Click to expand...
Yes, and what I am saying is, I don't think that's the only possibility and for sure want to see it, because in the 43/rds era they reassured customers they were not dropping the format until they did. The thing that sent a bit of a red flag warning was the term they had used in the interview of "we are studying..." reminds me of what Olympus said back then in 43/rds days.
Click to expand...
We've gone through this before with the whole "we are studying" bit when you used the same argument (and just that bit, ignoring all the other parts of the interview) to suggest the S5 was the GH5 replacement (which we found here it's not). Plus here he is saying "we are developing a successor model" not "we are studying".

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4515091/64315589

Same as back then, would have to see a link to the actual statement said back then by Panasonic and their actions afterwards. Did they say they were going to do a successor to one of their 43rds camera and then ended up not doing it? That would have to be the case to be a proper analogy.
 
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peppermonkey said:
What camera is shown at 1 min 50 sec??? Kinda looks like a rangefinder-style L mount body?
Click to expand...
Looks like a GX9 with an add-on eyecup and a plate on the bottom. This is from 1:58 or so:

de341724c01c4291aa536a9810a918db.jpg

Here's the GX9 from DPR's review:



dc92eaeb9f3d4d81aa08dc37771c15d6.jpg



--
Brent
 
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peppermonkey said:
MFiftysomething said:
This is unusual and welcome update for us -it is mostly L mount which looks promising but M43 discussed towards end.


Hopefully this is a new way of communicating from Pana!
Click to expand...
Okay, first things first...

What camera is shown at 1 min 50 sec??? Kinda looks like a rangefinder-style L mount body?
Click to expand...
The camera the guy uses at 1:48-1:50 has a EVF hump, it's not a range finder. It looks like a S1 or S1R judging from the front dial.

If you are talking about the camera the two women were using starting at 1:52, that is the GX9. You can see a up close look at 1:58 that makes it clear given the focus lever.
 
Kent Ekasak said:
I think GH6 will come before Olympic 2021.
Click to expand...
Ok, let's mark our calendars. I want to see if GH6 comes in and also any successors to in between GHx and G100. I wonder about GX9.
Kent Ekasak said:
Panny may intentionally offer S5 before GH6 for customer to upgrade to S line, new revenue stream. S5 is nearly a perfect hybrid camera for the price, except for AF (in some situations) and EVF. They may want to see the S5 market response first. But GH6 will come for sure; there is no business reason not to, given the huge GH5 and m43 customer base now (compare with extremely little S-line customer base).

Now, Panny already have SEVEN 10-bit video hybrid MRL cameras, the first one since nearly 4 years ago, where as other FF just start to have 10-bit video in MRL "last month", all with high price tag, 2-3 times more expensive than G9.
Click to expand...
 
JakeJY said:
Raist3d said:
JakeJY said:
Raist3d said:
JakeJY said:
Raist3d said:
notice how this is pitched in the video as being as small and as compact as the GH5.. then billed as the Ultimate Hybrid Camera.

That's no longer the GH5 according to Panasonic's message.
Click to expand...
"Ultimate Hybrid" is a marketing label they have used in multiple cameras.

Here's the G9:

"The Ultimate Hybrid Camera Launch | Lumix G9"

Click to expand...
Of course, but that was then, this is now.
JakeJY said:
Here's the S1:

"Ultimate Hybrid. Propel Your Photo and Video Passion."

https://www.panasonic.com/ca/consumer/cameras-camcorders/mirrorless-cameras/full-frame/dc-s1.html

FZ2500:

"Panasonic announces ultimate hybrid camera: LUMIX DMC-FZ2500"

https://news.panasonic.com.au/2016/...nces-ultimate-hybrid-camera-lumix-dmc-fz2500/

I know you are trying to push the narrative that the S5 is replacing the GH5, but this video makes it clear it's not, given they mentioned a GH successor coming separate from the S5.
Click to expand...
They sure have said before people can upgrade from GH5 to S5. At least in a a discussion Panel with a Panasonic representative where other ambassador photographers commented including BHPhoto and Panasonic didn't say peep.
Click to expand...
Other third parties moving from a GH5 to a S5 is irrelevant to the point of whether the S5 is the successor to the GH5. There are plenty of people that moved from the GH5 to a GH5S, but that doesn't mean the GH5S is the successor to the GH5.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't make that comparison there. You are still moving within m43rds.
JakeJY said:
Point is Panasonic is officially saying here that the S5 is not the successor to the GH5 and there's another camera coming that will be.
Click to expand...
Yes, and what I am saying is, I don't think that's the only possibility and for sure want to see it, because in the 43/rds era they reassured customers they were not dropping the format until they did. The thing that sent a bit of a red flag warning was the term they had used in the interview of "we are studying..." reminds me of what Olympus said back then in 43/rds days.
Click to expand...
We've gone through this before with the whole "we are studying" bit when you used the same argument (and just that bit, ignoring all the other parts of the interview) to suggest the S5 was the GH5 replacement (which we found here it's not). Plus here he is saying "we are developing a successor model" not "we are studying".

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4515091/64315589
Click to expand...
Yes we did. And the studying came in another interview.
JakeJY said:
Same as back then, would have to see a link to the actual statement said back then by Panasonic and their actions afterwards. Did they say they were going to do a successor to one of their 43rds camera and then ended up not doing it? That would have to be the case to be a proper analogy.
Click to expand...
As I said, they had a statement that they were not leaving 43rds when 43rds was starting to fall, and then they did. "I was there" - I owned and still own 4/3rds cameras and lenses.

I can understand them leaving the system. Saying one thing and then another not so much but as you can see they are not the only ones. From a company standpoint, makes sense.
 
Raist3d said:
Kent Ekasak said:
The last 2 Lumix cameras target "content creator", at least on marketing term.

Mr. Yamane also said words "content creator" many times in the video, and the Lumix's tag line now changed to "Motion, Picture, Perfect", from "changing photography".
Click to expand...
That's true. And that totally goes with what I said about them focusing on hybrid cameras.
Member said:
So, I am sure that any upcoming bodies and lens will focus on video first and still second, and no more 'still only" cameras, since it's not Lumix's advantage in this shrinking market. Even JIP's Oly will focus more on video, which is a good thing.
Click to expand...
Agreed that that's what they are focusing on. Panasonic clearly has a good niche and name for video camera so makes perfect sense on them focus on that message making themselves the go-to brand for the apparently more ever important hybrid camera.
Member said:
As I am contemplating on S5, I still think that m43 has several benefits over FF regarding video, when combining everything into considerations (body + lens + IBIS + gimbal + deeper DoF on lower f stop etc).
Click to expand...
Deeper DOF is not really an advantage. You can always stop down full frame and end up where m43rds with a camera that gives you then the option for both shallow and long dof. m43rds advantage, at least in theory, is size.
Member said:
I am sure GH6 will come soon (perhaps in several models), as real mini S1H possibly with 8K.
Click to expand...
To be clear: I do think it's possible, I just don't thin it's the only option so what to see evidence not in a PR event or PR interviews but actual camera models out the door.

How do you think soon is in your opinion? This year? Next year? in 2 years?
Click to expand...
 
Tom Caldwell said:
I do a whole lot more than just post on dpreview (and moderate - which does take some time as well). So I do wonder why others can find the time.
Click to expand...
After having a bit of fun with my comment above, it's only fair to acknowledge the work you do here as a moderator. Thank you.
 
Tom Caldwell said:
Where I stand: the G9 is a very excellent camera - I can use mine happily for years more. The only thing I regret about it, that could be improved, is the side-hinged (video) lcd.

So where is the need for an update? - just because a camera has been around for a while does not make it any lesser camera than it was when first launched. Maybe after the wonderful peak-video GH6 they can revert the next version of the G9 to a tilt lcd?
Click to expand...
This^^^^^^^^^ X 1,000,000 Realistically, at current sensor tech levels -not just 4/3, but all formats, how much gain be gained with a new camera? IQ wise. Nothing that would tempt me, that's for sure. For a stills photographer, the current G9 is about as good as it gets.
Tom Caldwell said:
There are probably more gains left in the video attributes than there are in the still-shooting attributes. As such the video lines are where the new-tech is going to be - leaving stills shooters far behind but hardly starved for image quality.
Click to expand...
I honestly can't see how that can happen. Sensor readout speed will improve, perhaps global shutter, Videographers still want better dynamic range & better high ISO performance, all things that will for sure make a better stills camera. The worst thing I can see happening, is that stills 'togs may have to stump up a few more bucks, if the two lines merge into a single line (stils/video) I can live with that.
 
Raist3d said:
Kent Ekasak said:
The last 2 Lumix cameras target "content creator", at least on marketing term.

Mr. Yamane also said words "content creator" many times in the video, and the Lumix's tag line now changed to "Motion, Picture, Perfect", from "changing photography".
Click to expand...
That's true. And that totally goes with what I said about them focusing on hybrid cameras.
Member said:
So, I am sure that any upcoming bodies and lens will focus on video first and still second, and no more 'still only" cameras, since it's not Lumix's advantage in this shrinking market. Even JIP's Oly will focus more on video, which is a good thing.
Click to expand...
Agreed that that's what they are focusing on. Panasonic clearly has a good niche and name for video camera so makes perfect sense on them focus on that message making themselves the go-to brand for the apparently more ever important hybrid camera.
Member said:
As I am contemplating on S5, I still think that m43 has several benefits over FF regarding video, when combining everything into considerations (body + lens + IBIS + gimbal + deeper DoF on lower f stop etc).
Click to expand...
Deeper DOF is not really an advantage.
Click to expand...
It is if you want to shoot at f1. 8 but have the DOF f3.5 Sometimes you want more in focus but need to shoot wide open because of poor light.

Its not an advantage for everyone but for some it is myself included.
Member said:
You can always stop down full frame and end up where m43rds with a camera that gives you then the option for both shallow and long dof. m43rds advantage, at least in theory, is size.
Member said:
I am sure GH6 will come soon (perhaps in several models), as real mini S1H possibly with 8K.
Click to expand...
To be clear: I do think it's possible, I just don't thin it's the only option so what to see evidence not in a PR event or PR interviews but actual camera models out the door.

How do you think soon is in your opinion? This year? Next year? in 2 years?

--
Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
victorav said:
Raist3d said:
Kent Ekasak said:
The last 2 Lumix cameras target "content creator", at least on marketing term.

Mr. Yamane also said words "content creator" many times in the video, and the Lumix's tag line now changed to "Motion, Picture, Perfect", from "changing photography".
Click to expand...
That's true. And that totally goes with what I said about them focusing on hybrid cameras.
victorav said:
So, I am sure that any upcoming bodies and lens will focus on video first and still second, and no more 'still only" cameras, since it's not Lumix's advantage in this shrinking market. Even JIP's Oly will focus more on video, which is a good thing.
Click to expand...
Agreed that that's what they are focusing on. Panasonic clearly has a good niche and name for video camera so makes perfect sense on them focus on that message making themselves the go-to brand for the apparently more ever important hybrid camera.
victorav said:
As I am contemplating on S5, I still think that m43 has several benefits over FF regarding video, when combining everything into considerations (body + lens + IBIS + gimbal + deeper DoF on lower f stop etc).
Click to expand...
Deeper DOF is not really an advantage.
Click to expand...
It is if you want to shoot at f1. 8 but have the DOF f3.5 Sometimes you want more in focus but need to shoot wide open because of poor light.
Click to expand...
Erm, shooting mFT at f/1.8 does not give a poor light advantage with respect to shooting FF at f/3.5.
victorav said:
Its not an advantage for everyone but for some it is myself included.
Click to expand...
It's illusory, there is no real advantage there.
 
bobn2 said:
victorav said:
Raist3d said:
Kent Ekasak said:
The last 2 Lumix cameras target "content creator", at least on marketing term.

Mr. Yamane also said words "content creator" many times in the video, and the Lumix's tag line now changed to "Motion, Picture, Perfect", from "changing photography".
Click to expand...
That's true. And that totally goes with what I said about them focusing on hybrid cameras.
bobn2 said:
So, I am sure that any upcoming bodies and lens will focus on video first and still second, and no more 'still only" cameras, since it's not Lumix's advantage in this shrinking market. Even JIP's Oly will focus more on video, which is a good thing.
Click to expand...
Agreed that that's what they are focusing on. Panasonic clearly has a good niche and name for video camera so makes perfect sense on them focus on that message making themselves the go-to brand for the apparently more ever important hybrid camera.
bobn2 said:
As I am contemplating on S5, I still think that m43 has several benefits over FF regarding video, when combining everything into considerations (body + lens + IBIS + gimbal + deeper DoF on lower f stop etc).
Click to expand...
Deeper DOF is not really an advantage.
Click to expand...
It is if you want to shoot at f1. 8 but have the DOF f3.5 Sometimes you want more in focus but need to shoot wide open because of poor light.
Click to expand...
Erm, shooting mFT at f/1.8 does not give a poor light advantage with respect to shooting FF at f/3.5.
Click to expand...
That's not what I'm saying. Sometimes you need more light and can't reduce the shutter speed but still want more in focus. I know crop fcctor does not affect exposure.
bobn2 said:
bobn2 said:
Its not an advantage for everyone but for some it is myself included.
Click to expand...
It's illusory, there is no real advantage there.
Click to expand...
Its not illusory, you can reproduce it. If apture shutter speed and fov and focal length are the same you will get deeper DOF. This is because DOF is based on your focal length apeture and distance to subject which is affect by crop factor.

So yes technically the DOF isn't really deeper but in practice in ends up that way, if you are trying to match.

Anyway this has been beaten to death already, if you see it as an illusion then that's fine. There is nothing more to say.
bobn2 said:
--
Is it always wrong
for one to have the hots for
Comrade Kim Yo Jong?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
victorav said:
bobn2 said:
victorav said:
Raist3d said:
Kent Ekasak said:
The last 2 Lumix cameras target "content creator", at least on marketing term.

Mr. Yamane also said words "content creator" many times in the video, and the Lumix's tag line now changed to "Motion, Picture, Perfect", from "changing photography".
Click to expand...
That's true. And that totally goes with what I said about them focusing on hybrid cameras.
victorav said:
So, I am sure that any upcoming bodies and lens will focus on video first and still second, and no more 'still only" cameras, since it's not Lumix's advantage in this shrinking market. Even JIP's Oly will focus more on video, which is a good thing.
Click to expand...
Agreed that that's what they are focusing on. Panasonic clearly has a good niche and name for video camera so makes perfect sense on them focus on that message making themselves the go-to brand for the apparently more ever important hybrid camera.
victorav said:
As I am contemplating on S5, I still think that m43 has several benefits over FF regarding video, when combining everything into considerations (body + lens + IBIS + gimbal + deeper DoF on lower f stop etc).
Click to expand...
Deeper DOF is not really an advantage.
Click to expand...
It is if you want to shoot at f1. 8 but have the DOF f3.5 Sometimes you want more in focus but need to shoot wide open because of poor light.
Click to expand...
Erm, shooting mFT at f/1.8 does not give a poor light advantage with respect to shooting FF at f/3.5.
Click to expand...
That's not what I'm saying. Sometimes you need more light and can't reduce the shutter speed but still want more in focus. I know crop fcctor does not affect exposure.
Click to expand...
That's still what you're saying. shoorting mFT at f/1.8 doesn't get you any more light than shooting FF at f/3.5 at the same shutter speed.
victorav said:
victorav said:
victorav said:
Its not an advantage for everyone but for some it is myself included.
Click to expand...
It's illusory, there is no real advantage there.
Click to expand...
Its not illusory, you can reproduce it. If apture shutter speed and fov and focal length are the same you will get deeper DOF.
Click to expand...
You don't mean 'aperture, shutter speed and FOV and focal length are the same'. You mean if the focal lengths are in the ratio 2:1, and the f-numbers are the same. That makes the apertures different, because the aperture is the focal length divided by the f-number (as in 'f/2') and since the focal length is different the aperture is different. f/2 does not equal f/2 if the 'f' is different.

Anyhow, with the same f-number, shutter speed and scene you will get more noise with the smaller sensor. So the question is why you didn't get the extra DOF simply by raising the ISO two stops? Only because you didn't want the extra noise. You could have done that with the FF and ended up with the same result (because you were using the same amount of light). In the end it's the results that matter. As I said, illusory.
victorav said:
This is because DOF is based on your focal length apeture and distance to subject which is affect by crop factor.

So yes technically the DOF isn't really deeper but in practice in ends up that way, if you are trying to match.

Anyway this has been beaten to death already, if you see it as an illusion then that's fine. There is nothing more to say.
Click to expand...
There is. You forgot that you have an ISO control.
 
victorav said:
... Ok
Click to expand...
He's right. There's no advantage, in your example with FF you get a choice of either the same noise performance as M4/3 and the same DoF (raising the ISO two stops and leaving the shutter speed the same) or the less DoF with less noise by opening the aperture (and lowering the ISO, same SS). It's not about better/worse, it just is...

The performance envelope for FF is a little wider by offering that choice (along with faster/larger lenses), whereas the initial M4/3 gear selection choice might lead to a smaller kit with the f1.8 prime, tho that isn't always a very substantial difference < 75mm (for primes).
 
Last edited:
Yes, I guess he is right, but how does a f1.8 lens on mft = f3.6 in regards to light. If the focal length is the same then an mft 1.8 lens is faster then a f3.6 lens is it not.
 
victorav said:
Yes, I guess he is right, but how does a f1.8 lens on mft = f3.6 in regards to light. If the focal length is the same then an mft 1.8 lens is faster then a f3.6 lens is it not.
Click to expand...
Sure, but your FOV would be different at the same focal length.
 
victorav said:
Yes, I guess he is right, but how does a f1.8 lens on mft = f3.6 in regards to light. If the focal length is the same then an mft 1.8 lens is faster then a f3.6 lens is it not.
Click to expand...
If the (absolute) focal length is the same, on Micro Four Thirds (µ4/3) the angle is narrower, meaning that less light is gathered.

50mm f/3.6 on µ4/3 collects only about 25% of the light than 50mm f/3.6 on a FF sensor because the angle of view is smaller. In order to get the same angle of view, the µ4/3 lens needs to be 25mm. In order to collect the same amount of light, the absolute size of the aperture must remain the same.

Aperture is: focal length/aperture diameter.
  • 50mm f/3.6 has an aperture of about 56mm.
  • 25mm f/3.6 has an aperture of about 28mm.
  • 25mm on µ4/3 has the same angle of view as 50mm on FF
  • 25mm lens with 56mm aperture is a f/1.8 lens.
What this means is that 25mm f/1.8 on µ4/3 is equivalent to 50mm f/3.6 on full frame.
 
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