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Perhaps a solution to solve overheating hybrid cameras?

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silentstorm said:
The whole R5 overheating fiasco has gotten me thinking....

With so many cameras that are weather sealed and have flap out doors for ports, why not someone make a camera that has a flap out for air vents?

...
Click to expand...
It's an interesting idea. As someone else noted, the camera design would have to allow for air flow and possibly heat conducting components. Weather sealing should be no more problem than it already is with connector and battery doors (which seem prone to leakage anyway.) It might not even require extra doors if opening are shared with other functions.

The camera makers are in a position of conflicting goals, partly of their own making. Buyers want compact, well-sealed cameras, but many of them also want high-resolution video. The camera makers have compounded their problem by promoting compact size.

FWIW, here's a Lens Rentals thing on the r5 heat emissions -- they note that some heat is carried down to around the tripod socket. That might be another approach, a heat transfer point in the bottom plate, maybe with some kind of heat sink attachment that could enhance the effect.

Loading…

www.lensrentals.com

But as has been said, the real answer may be a separate model for the serious video people.

Gato
 
robgendreau said:
I would have thought prior to the whole Canon thing that if someone was that into video, and maybe needed something like 8K, then build that into a dedicated video camera. Tons of high end video rigs aren't even full frame but instead Super 35 (roughly APS-C in size). So why in a camera sold to many still shooters? thinking they won't care about the overheating?

And btw, is there a more still-oriented Super 35 camera (or is the sensor's tech somehow optimized for video?).

And of course an awful lot of video is still shot on M43 sensors. That don't overheat.
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I think it's more to do with 8K than sensor size...
 
Kelvin_Woooo said:
silentstorm said:
The whole R5 overheating fiasco has gotten me thinking....

EDIT

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
EDIT

The best way to improve I believe is to push the silicon to its limit, like 4nm or even smaller, so that we can reduce heat from its source.
Click to expand...
Nice idea, in principle. The main problem as it stands is that 4nm is such a small scale that electronic circuits begin to behave in unexpected was as effects such as quantum tunneling begin to manifest.

There is some promise in other areas of research, however. It may be possible to make more efficient circuits by using electron spin to indicate states, for example.
 
silentstorm said:
The whole R5 overheating fiasco has gotten me thinking....

With so many cameras that are weather sealed and have flap out doors for ports, why not someone make a camera that has a flap out for air vents?

The vents can be together with USB, earphones, mic or HDMI ports. So when one is recording 4K/8K 12 bit RAW, open the flap for extra recording times.

When not in use, keep the flap closed. The weather seal properties will still be intact.

When overheated and shut down, keep the flap open, remove the CFexpress card and keep that door open as well. Cool it down this way for 15mins.

Wouldn't this be a simple and effective and cheap solution to any overheating hybrid cameras?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
People in the camera world are so incredibly ignorant of how to cool things and how thermal constraints work in general...

Opening up a hole will have almost no effect because air is one of the best heat insulators you can get. You would need to have a fan and also a full radiator inside, which has already been done.

The most practical solution for these cameras is improve heat conduction from the internal components to the surface, which is still expensive to do because it adds complexity to the assembly process and may cause people to complain that the camera gets hot. Because again, people don't know how cooling works and don't realize that all else being equal, having the surface of the device hot is a sign of BETTER cooling.

You know the Sony a6300 and a6500 where people constantly complained about over heating? Both can be solved by just opening them up and adding some thermal pads to better conduct heat to the surface of the camera. But it's just easier to design and manufacture when your components have clearance between each other rather than tightly touching each other.
 
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It has put in a large heat sink inside the GH5, therefore although it is among the pro class hybrid camera, never encounters over heating issue at a cost of not being the smallest MILC of its class.

Loading…

www.photobyrichard.com

For lower spec video featured Panasonic models, it emoloys relatively smaller size heatsink making all if its 4K ready cameras heavier than non 4K models but never has over heating issue.
 
Canon is not that dumb. If they really wanted the camera to not overheat they would have built in some measures.

They have other products they need to protect and newer models to sell you. They can't give you everything else there will be nothing else for you to upgrade to.


And is not only Canon, other manufacturers do it as well and in other industries.
 
Gato Amarillo said:
silentstorm said:
The whole R5 overheating fiasco has gotten me thinking....

With so many cameras that are weather sealed and have flap out doors for ports, why not someone make a camera that has a flap out for air vents?

...
Click to expand...
It's an interesting idea. As someone else noted, the camera design would have to allow for air flow and possibly heat conducting components. Weather sealing should be no more problem than it already is with connector and battery doors (which seem prone to leakage anyway.) It might not even require extra doors if opening are shared with other functions.

The camera makers are in a position of conflicting goals, partly of their own making. Buyers want compact, well-sealed cameras, but many of them also want high-resolution video. The camera makers have compounded their problem by promoting compact size.

FWIW, here's a Lens Rentals thing on the r5 heat emissions -- they note that some heat is carried down to around the tripod socket. That might be another approach, a heat transfer point in the bottom plate, maybe with some kind of heat sink attachment that could enhance the effect.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2020/09/investigating-the-canon-r5-heat-emission/

But as has been said, the real answer may be a separate model for the serious video people.

Gato
Click to expand...
And welcome to dust in your camera...
 
57even said:
I would be simpler to connect a copper heat-pipe from the processor to the metal tripod socket. You could then use a metal mounting plate, L-bracket, gimbal or other accessory to act as a passive radiator. I can see a huge market for finned L-brackets... ;-)

No reason you could not have an active cooling accessory as well - maybe in an optional grip with its own batteries.

--
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Click to expand...
Sure silver even. Great idea to get heat away. However, there are exceptions due to using conductors near a circuit.
 
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User4286416121 said:
57even said:
I would be simpler to connect a copper heat-pipe from the processor to the metal tripod socket. You could then use a metal mounting plate, L-bracket, gimbal or other accessory to act as a passive radiator. I can see a huge market for finned L-brackets... ;-)

No reason you could not have an active cooling accessory as well - maybe in an optional grip with its own batteries.
Click to expand...
Sure silver even. Great idea to get heat away. However, there are exceptions due to using conductors near a circuit.
Click to expand...
Works great on my laptop. Has two heat pipes, for CPU and GPU. Each ends in a coil inside a cooling fan near the vent at the rear. Each pipe is a L shape about 5 inches long.

However, they are thermally and electrically insulated from the circuit boards.
 
lawny13 said:
Gato Amarillo said:
silentstorm said:
The whole R5 overheating fiasco has gotten me thinking....

With so many cameras that are weather sealed and have flap out doors for ports, why not someone make a camera that has a flap out for air vents?

...
Click to expand...
It's an interesting idea. As someone else noted, the camera design would have to allow for air flow and possibly heat conducting components. Weather sealing should be no more problem than it already is with connector and battery doors (which seem prone to leakage anyway.) It might not even require extra doors if opening are shared with other functions.

The camera makers are in a position of conflicting goals, partly of their own making. Buyers want compact, well-sealed cameras, but many of them also want high-resolution video. The camera makers have compounded their problem by promoting compact size.

FWIW, here's a Lens Rentals thing on the r5 heat emissions -- they note that some heat is carried down to around the tripod socket. That might be another approach, a heat transfer point in the bottom plate, maybe with some kind of heat sink attachment that could enhance the effect.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2020/09/investigating-the-canon-r5-heat-emission/

But as has been said, the real answer may be a separate model for the serious video people.

Gato
Click to expand...
And welcome to dust in your camera...
Click to expand...
Depends on how it's designed -- very unlikely designers would expose critical parts.

Gato
 
57even said:
User4286416121 said:
57even said:
I would be simpler to connect a copper heat-pipe from the processor to the metal tripod socket. You could then use a metal mounting plate, L-bracket, gimbal or other accessory to act as a passive radiator. I can see a huge market for finned L-brackets... ;-)

No reason you could not have an active cooling accessory as well - maybe in an optional grip with its own batteries.
Click to expand...
Sure silver even. Great idea to get heat away. However, there are exceptions due to using conductors near a circuit.
Click to expand...
Works great on my laptop. Has two heat pipes, for CPU and GPU. Each ends in a coil inside a cooling fan near the vent at the rear. Each pipe is a L shape about 5 inches long.

However, they are thermally and electrically insulated from the circuit boards.
Click to expand...
 
lawny13 said:
57even said:
User4286416121 said:
57even said:
I would be simpler to connect a copper heat-pipe from the processor to the metal tripod socket. You could then use a metal mounting plate, L-bracket, gimbal or other accessory to act as a passive radiator. I can see a huge market for finned L-brackets... ;-)

No reason you could not have an active cooling accessory as well - maybe in an optional grip with its own batteries.
Click to expand...
Sure silver even. Great idea to get heat away. However, there are exceptions due to using conductors near a circuit.
Click to expand...
Works great on my laptop. Has two heat pipes, for CPU and GPU. Each ends in a coil inside a cooling fan near the vent at the rear. Each pipe is a L shape about 5 inches long.

However, they are thermally and electrically insulated from the circuit boards.
Click to expand...
But you don’t hold your laptop like one would a camera right? And what how long with your computer run on 2130 mAh battery and those fans?
Click to expand...
I put it on my lap though. And my knees get quite warm.
lawny13 said:
The purpose and form factor or a PC is different than a camera of course. In particular a stills form factor camera
Click to expand...
I certainly don't hold my camera by the tripod socket, and there is probably no need for a fan. Just a radiating surface. Heat would be spread over a conductive surface, like an L bracket, so it would not be unbearably hot. In the meantime, the heat over the rest of the surface, such as the grip, would be lower.
 
Better to have a longer continuous piece of air vent. But this is for illustration purpose only.
Better to have a longer continuous piece of air vent. But this is for illustration purpose only.





A think copper plate with tiny fins at the edge put next to the air vents..



This is a more elegant, simpler and cheaper solution than big bulky external fan and heatsink.



I believe this is doable, better & cheaper for the benefits gained.
 
Kelvin_Woooo said:
Sittatunga said:
lawny13 said:
Sittatunga said:
Kelvin_Woooo said:
silentstorm said:
The whole R5 overheating fiasco has gotten me thinking....

With so many cameras that are weather sealed and have flap out doors for ports, why not someone make a camera that has a flap out for air vents?

The vents can be together with USB, earphones, mic or HDMI ports. So when one is recording 4K/8K 12 bit RAW, open the flap for extra recording times.

When not in use, keep the flap closed. The weather seal properties will still be intact.

When overheated and shut down, keep the flap open, remove the CFexpress card and keep that door open as well. Cool it down this way for 15mins.

Wouldn't this be a simple and effective and cheap solution to any overheating hybrid cameras?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
In short, interesting idea but we are going to have a much bigger or more expensive camera I think.

In details, I think this is an Interesting idea, but I am afraid this is not going to be a cheap solution as adding moving parts like this will not only add a motor but a lot of other stuff to make the mechanism to make this idea work, and it is going to more challenging when you put this into a weather seal body as people would not just ask for a working solution, but also a reliable, durable solution. (Making some holes into the body may some time weaken the structure of the body, like the iPad).

The best way to improve I believe is to push the silicon to its limit, like 4nm or even smaller, so that we can reduce heat from its source.
Click to expand...
More efficient CFexpress cards would be a big help. But am I the only person who puts videos with longer than two-minute shots into the tl:dv category?
Click to expand...
I think that the lite formats, once out, coupled with the FW1.1 improvements might already be good enough.

What do you mean tl:dv?
Click to expand...
Too long: didn't view
Click to expand...
I think op is thinking of an idea of some heat vent that can be closed to a point we can call weather sealed to future weather sealed camera
Click to expand...
The Sigma fp has a heat sink and a slot (or crevice) and is weather-sealed. I haven't seen any reports of it overheating.

Loading…

www.sigma-global.com

Click on the movie marked "Large Heat Sink".

Seems like the way to do it.
 
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