Best MFT lens for Astrophotography Wide angle

Interceptor121

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I have made this little table for my perusal. This does not take into account optical defects assuming the software will be able to correct it.

I own the Panasonic 12mm 1.4 and I can confirm some distortion in the edges seems like astigmatism to me.



93168c6b80cd430aa8cea6df9de75287.jpg

I am curious about the OIy 17mm. MFT does seem to have a penalty as to get to 7 Ev you need to get to high levels of gain

I also have calculated the shutter using a 7 pixel trail table and not 500 or 200 rules so the shutter time differ.

This does not mean you can't take great images with the 7.5mm laowa or the 15mm panasonic but those lenses would not get as much light as the others

Curious about practical experiences of others



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I don't understand your table, sorry.

A little bit of more information would be helpful.

L.
 
I don't understand your table, sorry.

A little bit of more information would be helpful.

L.
Aperture is aperture and sjhutter is shutter

The ISO value is what you need to get to 7 Ev on that lens with the exposure settings on the table

In short you need to look at the colours on the lenses
 
I don't understand your table, sorry.

A little bit of more information would be helpful.
Executive summary:

1. A very fast lens will let you use a lower ISO to shoot stars without trails; and

2. A very wide focal length will to some extent make up for the lens being a bit slower.

If you want to use the lowest ISO to shoot stars without trails, the green lenses are better than yellow, which are better than orange, which are better than red.

--
Brent
 
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I don't understand your table, sorry.

A little bit of more information would be helpful.
Executive summary:

1. A very fast lens will let you use a lower ISO to shoot stars without trails; and

2. A very wide focal length will to some extent make up for the lens being a bit slower.

If you want to use the lowest ISO to shoot stars without trails, the green lenses are better than yellow, which are better than orange, which are better than red.
Yes

I have also made a comment about aberrations although some of those lenses have some issues of coma, astigmatism vignetting etc etc those are not so bad in real life after raw processing

Some programs like sequator even correct for lens defects

I have owned/own 4 lenses on that list and fast aperture is indeed the single most important feature


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It's not just about aperture. Resolving power is perhaps the most critical factor. The PL15mm f1.7 has bucket loads of that. It's especially a favourite for milky way shots.
 
It's not just about aperture. Resolving power is perhaps the most critical factor. The PL15mm f1.7 has bucket loads of that. It's especially a favourite for milky way shots.
What makes you think that the Panasonic 12mm or the Olympus or the Sigma have less than your lens?

And second you do not actually need a lot of resolution keeping ISO low is critical to have some colors left in the stars or it will look completely monochromatic
 
I have made this little table for my perusal. This does not take into account optical defects assuming the software will be able to correct it.

I own the Panasonic 12mm 1.4 and I can confirm some distortion in the edges seems like astigmatism to me.

93168c6b80cd430aa8cea6df9de75287.jpg

I am curious about the OIy 17mm. MFT does seem to have a penalty as to get to 7 Ev you need to get to high levels of gain

I also have calculated the shutter using a 7 pixel trail table and not 500 or 200 rules so the shutter time differ.

This does not mean you can't take great images with the 7.5mm laowa or the 15mm panasonic but those lenses would not get as much light as the others

Curious about practical experiences of others
Your 7 pixel drift calculation is much better than using the 500 or 300 rule.
 
When it comes to astrophotography and ETTR (exposure to the right) you need a lens that can resolve details that would otherwise need a lot of tampering in post to get the same result, but with more noise. f1.2 and f1.4 lenses can often be soft at their maximum aperture, meaning that they are best used stopped down if it isn't about depth of field that you are after. The PL15mm f1.7 is good as it can get for a pro quality lens at its maximum aperture.
 
When it comes to astrophotography and ETTR (exposure to the right) you need a lens that can resolve details that would otherwise need a lot of tampering in post to get the same result, but with more noise. f1.2 and f1.4 lenses can often be soft at their maximum aperture, meaning that they are best used stopped down if it isn't about depth of field that you are after. The PL15mm f1.7 is good as it can get for a pro quality lens at its maximum aperture.
Astrophotography has nothing to do with ETTR you usually expose to the left to avoid clipping stars that are highlights you barely see. In addition ETTR does not involve ISO it involves light which means you need a faster lens

Having said that the lens you mention is not better than any other when wide open from all tests and charts published

The fact you have it does not make it the best just because you say so lol
 
f1.2 and f1.4 lenses can often be soft at their maximum aperture, meaning that they are best used stopped down
PL 12/1.4 is perfectly usable wide open for astro (see my flickr album ), though.

And f/1.6 is the optimal aperture when considering vignetting, you loose 1/3 stop of light in the center, but nothing in the corners and reduce coma a bit.
 
I have made this little table for my perusal. This does not take into account optical defects assuming the software will be able to correct it.

I own the Panasonic 12mm 1.4 and I can confirm some distortion in the edges seems like astigmatism to me.
Mine is pretty good, but there's pretty wild sample variation with this one.
93168c6b80cd430aa8cea6df9de75287.jpg

I am curious about the OIy 17mm. MFT does seem to have a penalty as to get to 7 Ev you need to get to high levels of gain

I also have calculated the shutter using a 7 pixel trail table and not 500 or 200 rules so the shutter time differ.

This does not mean you can't take great images with the 7.5mm laowa or the 15mm panasonic but those lenses would not get as much light as the others

Curious about practical experiences of others
Panasonic 12mm f/1.4 and Olympus 8mm f/1.8 are the best astro lenses in the system.

Also, I would add Samyang 12mm f/2 to your list. Really good optically and much cheaper than other 12mm Panasonic or Olympus.

There's also Voigtlander Nokton 10.5mm and 17.5mm f/0.95. But at least to me, massive coma (and vignetting) disqualifies both for that kind of use (although I guess 10.5 could work for astro time-lapses).

Laowa would be pretty amazing if not for the massive vignetting. Brightening corners by 3 stops at high ISO will not end well.

--
My photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/astrotripper2000/
 
I have made this little table for my perusal. This does not take into account optical defects assuming the software will be able to correct it.

I own the Panasonic 12mm 1.4 and I can confirm some distortion in the edges seems like astigmatism to me.
Mine is pretty good, but there's pretty wild sample variation with this one.
93168c6b80cd430aa8cea6df9de75287.jpg

I am curious about the OIy 17mm. MFT does seem to have a penalty as to get to 7 Ev you need to get to high levels of gain

I also have calculated the shutter using a 7 pixel trail table and not 500 or 200 rules so the shutter time differ.

This does not mean you can't take great images with the 7.5mm laowa or the 15mm panasonic but those lenses would not get as much light as the others

Curious about practical experiences of others
Panasonic 12mm f/1.4 and Olympus 8mm f/1.8 are the best astro lenses in the system.

Also, I would add Samyang 12mm f/2 to your list. Really good optically and much cheaper than other 12mm Panasonic or Olympus.

There's also Voigtlander Nokton 10.5mm and 17.5mm f/0.95. But at least to me, massive coma (and vignetting) disqualifies both for that kind of use (although I guess 10.5 could work for astro time-lapses).

Laowa would be pretty amazing if not for the massive vignetting. Brightening corners by 3 stops at high ISO will not end well.
I don't like fisheye lenses for this type of shots so I only included rectilinear that is personal. Except laowa that was popular i tried to be away from manual non exif lenses. the samyang would have the same performance on this table of the olympus f/2 which is not that expensive?

I have seen some great images though composite with the Oly 17mm. I am planning to compose 12+16mm in the same shot for nightscapes

My 12mm has some issues on the left side but nothing major is a great lens

--
instagram http://instagram.com/interceptor121
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Youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/interceptor121
Underwater Photo and Video Blog http://interceptor121.com
 
When it comes to astrophotography and ETTR (exposure to the right) you need a lens that can resolve details that would otherwise need a lot of tampering in post to get the same result, but with more noise. f1.2 and f1.4 lenses can often be soft at their maximum aperture, meaning that they are best used stopped down if it isn't about depth of field that you are after. The PL15mm f1.7 is good as it can get for a pro quality lens at its maximum aperture.
Astrophotography has nothing to do with ETTR you usually expose to the left to avoid clipping stars that are highlights you barely see.
You might want to Google astrophotography and ETTR together. You are missing out big time with your technique.
 
I don't need google I take shots and I know how a camera works sorry

ETTR is about getting more light which is exactly why you need a fast lens

The EV of the 15mm lens at the shutter without blur is -1.8 Ev the Oly 17m is -2.8 Ev

So you are 1 stop less bright and you need to increase ISO accordingly

Increasing ISO decreases dynamic range and color response so your shots will be clipped and less colorful. This means the stars will be monochromatic at that point how sharp they are matters much less.

Considering the performance of MFT sensors you really want to avoid too high ISO values. I have compared shots from 1000 to 3200 and there is a drop of color perhaps go to the astro section of this forum to see how people actually do it.

You will see also some of my posts related to the colors and how many people come and say you need a lower ISO

I am sorry but knowledge is not based on 1st google result you need to go a bit deeper into topics. It happens always when the equipment you own does not come first to take it personal but don't i don't get any commission from anyone and those are just factual data point
 
I don't understand your table, sorry.

A little bit of more information would be helpful.

L.
Aperture is aperture and sjhutter is shutter

The ISO value is what you need to get to 7 Ev on that lens with the exposure settings on the table

In short you need to look at the colours on the lenses
I had no idea you were talking about ISO in your table.

L.
 
I have made this little table for my perusal. This does not take into account optical defects assuming the software will be able to correct it.

I own the Panasonic 12mm 1.4 and I can confirm some distortion in the edges seems like astigmatism to me.
Mine is pretty good, but there's pretty wild sample variation with this one.
93168c6b80cd430aa8cea6df9de75287.jpg

I am curious about the OIy 17mm. MFT does seem to have a penalty as to get to 7 Ev you need to get to high levels of gain

I also have calculated the shutter using a 7 pixel trail table and not 500 or 200 rules so the shutter time differ.

This does not mean you can't take great images with the 7.5mm laowa or the 15mm panasonic but those lenses would not get as much light as the others

Curious about practical experiences of others
Panasonic 12mm f/1.4 and Olympus 8mm f/1.8 are the best astro lenses in the system.

Also, I would add Samyang 12mm f/2 to your list. Really good optically and much cheaper than other 12mm Panasonic or Olympus.

There's also Voigtlander Nokton 10.5mm and 17.5mm f/0.95. But at least to me, massive coma (and vignetting) disqualifies both for that kind of use (although I guess 10.5 could work for astro time-lapses).

Laowa would be pretty amazing if not for the massive vignetting. Brightening corners by 3 stops at high ISO will not end well.
I have used the Laowa a lot, very little for astro but a lot indoors (in particular in museums). It does vignette a lot, it does need a flat field correction (even for color correction!), but not even close to 3 stops.

L.

--
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I don't need google I take shots and I know how a camera works sorry

ETTR is about getting more light which is exactly why you need a fast lens

The EV of the 15mm lens at the shutter without blur is -1.8 Ev the Oly 17m is -2.8 Ev

So you are 1 stop less bright and you need to increase ISO accordingly

Increasing ISO decreases dynamic range and color response so your shots will be clipped and less colorful. This means the stars will be monochromatic at that point how sharp they are matters much less.

Considering the performance of MFT sensors you really want to avoid too high ISO values. I have compared shots from 1000 to 3200 and there is a drop of color perhaps go to the astro section of this forum to see how people actually do it.

You will see also some of my posts related to the colors and how many people come and say you need a lower ISO

I am sorry but knowledge is not based on 1st google result you need to go a bit deeper into topics. It happens always when the equipment you own does not come first to take it personal but don't i don't get any commission from anyone and those are just factual data point
I prefer to think of it more in terms of the clear aperture, hence light gathering, and FOV at a given speed to prevent trailing (assuming you're not using a tracker). Hence this chart has served me well in general: https://www.lonelyspeck.com/lenses-for-milky-way-photography/

If you click the link therein below the chart you'll get a whole spreadsheet on Google Docs that mentions specific brands of lenses on different sensors. Spoiler alert, probably the best by a bit just for the light gathering mentioned therein is the Oly 17mm 1.8 and Oly 12mm 2.0. But there are lots of others, and that might help in your research.

I haven't done as much real astro with my MFT as I should, but sometimes the lowest ISOs don't work that well; it's getting a good balance. There's a good Milky Way calculator on that site as well. Using that 17mm I think 1600/3200 would work quite well, maybe 15-20 sec. https://www.lonelyspeck.com/milky-way-exposure-calculator/ So the author there is basically on the same page you are.

I use the 24mm Rokinon btw, and it's great, and popular for a reason, but mostly on another body. Good luck!
 
I would also consider the PL 10-25. I've used it for wide angle astro and it's fairly clean (coma-wise), especially for a zoom.
 
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I don't need google I take shots and I know how a camera works sorry

ETTR is about getting more light which is exactly why you need a fast lens

The EV of the 15mm lens at the shutter without blur is -1.8 Ev the Oly 17m is -2.8 Ev

So you are 1 stop less bright and you need to increase ISO accordingly

Increasing ISO decreases dynamic range and color response so your shots will be clipped and less colorful. This means the stars will be monochromatic at that point how sharp they are matters much less.

Considering the performance of MFT sensors you really want to avoid too high ISO values. I have compared shots from 1000 to 3200 and there is a drop of color perhaps go to the astro section of this forum to see how people actually do it.

You will see also some of my posts related to the colors and how many people come and say you need a lower ISO

I am sorry but knowledge is not based on 1st google result you need to go a bit deeper into topics. It happens always when the equipment you own does not come first to take it personal but don't i don't get any commission from anyone and those are just factual data point
I prefer to think of it more in terms of the clear aperture, hence light gathering, and FOV at a given speed to prevent trailing (assuming you're not using a tracker). Hence this chart has served me well in general: https://www.lonelyspeck.com/lenses-for-milky-way-photography/

If you click the link therein below the chart you'll get a whole spreadsheet on Google Docs that mentions specific brands of lenses on different sensors. Spoiler alert, probably the best by a bit just for the light gathering mentioned therein is the Oly 17mm 1.8 and Oly 12mm 2.0. But there are lots of others, and that might help in your research.

I haven't done as much real astro with my MFT as I should, but sometimes the lowest ISOs don't work that well; it's getting a good balance. There's a good Milky Way calculator on that site as well. Using that 17mm I think 1600/3200 would work quite well, maybe 15-20 sec. https://www.lonelyspeck.com/milky-way-exposure-calculator/ So the author there is basically on the same page you are.

I use the 24mm Rokinon btw, and it's great, and popular for a reason, but mostly on another body. Good luck!
The table on that site does a similar calculation but has only obsolete models

I think we need to make a distinction between exposure density and light gathering as here we are talking about Milky Way and not deep space which is what I used (Light Value 12 Ev)

The way I calculated the ISO value is as follows

Light Value of the Milky Way = 11 Ev

Light Value - ISO Value = Exposure Value

ISO Value - Light Value - Exposure Value

ISO Value = 11 - Exposure Value

So for the 12mm 1.4 ISO Value is 11-2.7= 8.4 Ev

Converting this value into Linear ISO gives a value of 984 rounded up to 1000 and a table that looks like this the ranking does not actually change

Table adjusted for Milky Way
Table adjusted for Milky Way

Now as we know the ISO value is important as with ISO going up Dynamic Range, color and tones drop.

So ask yourself would you shoot your camera at ISO 4000? Maybe yes and then use denoise however once you are at ISO 4000 all the stars colors have disappeared already and the light is very faint

So it remains as per this table that in terms of exposure the Panasonic 12mm and the Olympus 17mm Pro are the best lenses. Obviously there is also a field of view consideration to be included.

With regards to the lens showing in red those will generate in most conditions monochromatic shots you will see the Milky Way but even if you brush it or stretch it there won't be much color in it.

Finally lenses like Laowa or Samyang that are not autocorrected need

1. Distortion correction

2. Vignetting correction

3. Chromatic aberration correction

All those can be done in a raw converter in my opinion you don't need to shoot flat frames for vignetting. Distortion can be corrected by some programs while CA is something you need to do yourself

I want to be clear if you want to do a single shot with the Milky Way and foreground you are likely to exposure mid way between the 11 Ev and the foreground that will require more light. At that point the stars will clip and the colours will be lost so the Milky Way will look monochromatic. If you look at most shots on the internet they have wrong color balance and all sorts of tricks to give some tones to the image that has lost it

With regards to clean aperture a longer lens will always have bigger aperture for the same f/number however practically you cannot shoot the Milky Way with a 25mm lens so this consideration is not that important but clearly a 17mm lens at f/1/4 gathers more light on the surface than a 12mm 1.4 but at this level we are still talking about exposure density not light hitting the lens. And again if you shoot the Milky Way with a 17mm lens it is not likely to fit completely I find that 12mm is the right focal

If you performed a calculation based on exposure factor you would have

1. Oly 17mm pro

2. Sigma 16mm

3. Panasonic 12mm

The rest would not change much but the laowa would drop way down as the lens has a very small focal and therefore a small physical aperture

In conclusion the Olympus 17mm 1.2 is the best lens on all accounts, the sigma 16mm is a good value alternative. Both lenses may be a bit narrow for a landscape shot or Milky Way in landscape but would work fine in portrait.

The panasonic 12mm has a great field of view for a single shot but on shots with stars only may not resolve faint stars. I have this lens and I can confirm it resolves easily 20000 stars on a Milky Way shot so would not loose my sleep too much

With regards to ETTR etc is only exposure value that determines exposure it is the lens that gathers the light according to the time and if you want to get more light you need a tracker this will mean your EV will increase your ISO will decrease and you will get a better image. If I take a shot with 64 seconds instead of 13 seconds I can drop the ISO to 200 maximising the performance of the sensor

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instagram http://instagram.com/interceptor121
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Youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/interceptor121
Underwater Photo and Video Blog http://interceptor121.com
 
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