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The trend continues

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BGD300V1 said:
I wouldn't expect IBIS on a top end pro camera.
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It extends the range of shutter speed for which the camera can handheld, therefore it has its place in a top end pro camera.
BGD300V1 said:
It is not a panacea
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Nothing is: neither IBIS nor in-camera metering nor AF, but all 3 today should be in a pro dSLR.
BGD300V1 said:
and the shutter speeds of most action shots doesn't really accomplish much.

Here is a part of a thread about it quoting Thom Hogan

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3014895
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We don't always have the luxury of high shutter speeds. And while the D# are geared more towards action they remain very polyvalent tools that can be used for everything.
 
Just Nick said:
I work using 4k screen. All of these shots look great to me.
(Nikon D700 and lens 28-105 AF-D)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/58919412@N00/
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They look more than great. They are fantastic!

I have never said I can take a better picture with a new lens than another guy with an old lens. I literally wouldn't know how to take pictures as good as the ones you've shared in that link.

All I know is that if I take a picture with an AFD and then with a Z, the Z looks better to me. But a few years back I might not have noticed on a lower res screen etc.
 
Thanks for your comments!
Actually what makes the difference to me is an almost 3D pop that i get from the combination of the specific camera (D700) and my AF-D lenses.

https://flic.kr/p/2gRCVG6

https://flic.kr/p/2iscYkz

I Used to shoot with D750 and D800e.I know it is hard for someone to believe but i sold both when i realized that my D700 with my Ai-s and AF-D lenses are the perfect combination for my needs
 
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And yet at the high end folks will get both a high MP camera and something in the 20-24MP range.

At the level of the D6 and it's general functionality IBIS isn't worth the effort.

In a lot of cases the "need" for more focus points, more megapixels, more built-in settings and other functions require more and more processing and memory and higher bus speeds.

Great marketing though, the camera with EVERYTHING.
 
BGD300V1 said:
And yet at the high end folks will get both a high MP camera and something in the 20-24MP range.
Click to expand...
This statement is too general IMO.

Event or wedding photographers are also the target of the D# series, have little interest in high MP cameras, and many would love to have IBIS.

Just an example.
 
Just Nick said:
Thanks for your comments!
Actually what makes the difference to me is an almost 3D pop that i get from the combination of the specific camera (D700) and my AF-D lenses.

https://flic.kr/p/2gRCVG6
https://flic.kr/p/2iscYkz

I Used to shoot with D750 and D800e.I know it is hard for someone to believe but i sold both when i realized that my D700 with my Ai-s and AF-D lenses are the perfect combination for my needs
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Unfortunately not everyone can understand and appreciate the beauty of D glasses with a larger sensor pixel.
 
All D lenses work well with 24mp sensors. Better lenses don’t make you a better photographer.
 
TOF guy said:
BGD300V1 said:
And yet at the high end folks will get both a high MP camera and something in the 20-24MP range.
Click to expand...
This statement is too general IMO.

Event or wedding photographers are also the target of the D# series, have little interest in high MP cameras, and many would love to have IBIS.

Just an example.
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Yep, and they probably drive an F350.
 
TOF guy said:
BGD300V1 said:
TOF guy said:
BGD300V1 said:
And yet at the high end folks will get both a high MP camera and something in the 20-24MP range.
Click to expand...
This statement is too general IMO.

Event or wedding photographers are also the target of the D# series, have little interest in high MP cameras, and many would love to have IBIS.

Just an example.
Click to expand...
Yep, and they probably drive an F350.
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Do they now ? :-)
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Well, count me in for ibis on any body. I absolutely love it.
 
fPrime said:
Sony LA-EA4 A to E lens adapter with built in AF Motor (160g) - $298
Sony LA-EA4 A to E lens adapter with built in AF Motor (160g) - $298

Nikon FTZ adapter with no AF motor (133g) - $250
Nikon FTZ adapter with no AF motor (133g) - $250
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And now Sony also have the screw drive capable LA-EA5 for $250.



LA-EA5
LA-EA5

Note how the drive motor is tucked neatly into the ring.
Note how the drive motor is tucked neatly into the ring.







Meanwhile Nikon continue to sleep at the wheel. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

fPrime

--
Half of my heart is a shotgun wedding to a bride with a paper ring,
And half of my heart is the part of a man who's never truly loved anything.
 
fPrime said:
Meanwhile Nikon continue to sleep at the wheel. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

fPrime
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Good for Sony - that is really impressive.

But, you use the Sony adaptors as a stick to beat Nikon with. OK. Maybe. One thing I have not seen discussed is the technical difference between the problem of adapting Sony A to FE vs Nikon F to Z.

Sony A is the Minolta A mount - a new AF mount from 1985, like the Canon EF. That mount orphaned all the Minolta SR lenses - from Wikipedia on the SR mount: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minolta_SR-mount

There are also adapters for Minolta/Sony A-mount cameras, but they either do not maintain infinity focus or contain glass-elements, working as 1.2-2× tele-converter, changing the optical properties of the system and often deteriorating the image-quality.

Nikon maintained the F mount from 1959....not from 1985. That makes the F mount more cumbersome, needing more mechanical linkages etc. The adapter challenge is different. You don't know how much more inherent complexity there is in an FTZ adaptor compared to a Sony A-FE or Canon EF-RF.

The other factor is lens availability. Sony have only 19 A mount FF lenses, so when the FE system started, they had to have a screwdrive adapter to make the lens range broad enough. Nikon have more than 40 AFS FX lenses supported by the FTZ.

Of course, Nikon Z has the advantage that you can get an AF adaptor from Sony FE to Nikon Z but not the other way around.
 
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VBLondon said:
Nikon maintained the F mount from 1959....not from 1985. That makes the F mount more cumbersome, needing more mechanical linkages etc. The adapter challenge is different. You don't know how much more inherent complexity there is in an FTZ adaptor compared to a Sony A-FE or Canon EF-RF.
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Is this a fact about cumbersome mechanical linkages or a hypothesis?
VBLondon said:
The other factor is lens availability. Sony have only 19 A mount FF lenses, so when the FE system started, they had to have a screwdrive adapter to make the lens range broad enough. Nikon have more than 40 AFS FX lenses supported by the FTZ.
Click to expand...
To me it sounds like Nikon simply wants you to upgrade your old screwdriver lenses to the much more expensive new Z mount lenses, -- that's my hypothesis. No matter how much you like those old lenses. I'm yet to see any reason to upgrade, for instance, 85/1.4D, 105/2DC, 135/2DC, or 180/2.8D to anything whatsoever. IMHO, they are perfectly fine lenses in their own right, warts and all. I'm not saying they are fine for everyone, I'm just saying it would be nice if those who think they are fine could continue using them on Z should they so choose.
 
yray said:
VBLondon said:
Nikon maintained the F mount from 1959....not from 1985. That makes the F mount more cumbersome, needing more mechanical linkages etc. The adapter challenge is different. You don't know how much more inherent complexity there is in an FTZ adaptor compared to a Sony A-FE or Canon EF-RF.
Click to expand...
Is this a fact about cumbersome mechanical linkages or a hypothesis?
yray said:
The other factor is lens availability. Sony have only 19 A mount FF lenses, so when the FE system started, they had to have a screwdrive adapter to make the lens range broad enough. Nikon have more than 40 AFS FX lenses supported by the FTZ.
Click to expand...
To me it sounds like Nikon simply wants you to upgrade your old screwdriver lenses to the much more expensive new Z mount lenses, -- that's my hypothesis. No matter how much you like those old lenses. I'm yet to see any reason to upgrade, for instance, 85/1.4D, 105/2DC, 135/2DC, or 180/2.8D to anything whatsoever. IMHO, they are perfectly fine lenses in their own right, warts and all. I'm not saying they are fine for everyone, I'm just saying it would be nice if those who think they are fine could continue using them on Z should they so choose.
Click to expand...
Have you considered simply not buying a Z? As far as I know all the FX DSLRs will work just fine with the D lenses.
 
BGD300V1 said:
yray said:
VBLondon said:
Nikon maintained the F mount from 1959....not from 1985. That makes the F mount more cumbersome, needing more mechanical linkages etc. The adapter challenge is different. You don't know how much more inherent complexity there is in an FTZ adaptor compared to a Sony A-FE or Canon EF-RF.
Click to expand...
Is this a fact about cumbersome mechanical linkages or a hypothesis?
BGD300V1 said:
The other factor is lens availability. Sony have only 19 A mount FF lenses, so when the FE system started, they had to have a screwdrive adapter to make the lens range broad enough. Nikon have more than 40 AFS FX lenses supported by the FTZ.
Click to expand...
To me it sounds like Nikon simply wants you to upgrade your old screwdriver lenses to the much more expensive new Z mount lenses, -- that's my hypothesis. No matter how much you like those old lenses. I'm yet to see any reason to upgrade, for instance, 85/1.4D, 105/2DC, 135/2DC, or 180/2.8D to anything whatsoever. IMHO, they are perfectly fine lenses in their own right, warts and all. I'm not saying they are fine for everyone, I'm just saying it would be nice if those who think they are fine could continue using them on Z should they so choose.
Click to expand...
Have you considered simply not buying a Z?
Click to expand...
Indeed, I have not considered buying it yet. ;-)
BGD300V1 said:
As far as I know all the FX DSLRs will work just fine with the D lenses.
Click to expand...
 
yray said:
BGD300V1 said:
yray said:
VBLondon said:
Nikon maintained the F mount from 1959....not from 1985. That makes the F mount more cumbersome, needing more mechanical linkages etc. The adapter challenge is different. You don't know how much more inherent complexity there is in an FTZ adaptor compared to a Sony A-FE or Canon EF-RF.
Click to expand...
Is this a fact about cumbersome mechanical linkages or a hypothesis?
yray said:
The other factor is lens availability. Sony have only 19 A mount FF lenses, so when the FE system started, they had to have a screwdrive adapter to make the lens range broad enough. Nikon have more than 40 AFS FX lenses supported by the FTZ.
Click to expand...
To me it sounds like Nikon simply wants you to upgrade your old screwdriver lenses to the much more expensive new Z mount lenses, -- that's my hypothesis. No matter how much you like those old lenses. I'm yet to see any reason to upgrade, for instance, 85/1.4D, 105/2DC, 135/2DC, or 180/2.8D to anything whatsoever. IMHO, they are perfectly fine lenses in their own right, warts and all. I'm not saying they are fine for everyone, I'm just saying it would be nice if those who think they are fine could continue using them on Z should they so choose.
Click to expand...
Have you considered simply not buying a Z?
Click to expand...
Indeed, I have not considered buying it yet. ;-)
Click to expand...
Neither have I. And Nikon wonders why the uptake of the Z cameras is so sluggish.

fPrime
 
fPrime said:
Neither have I. And Nikon wonders why the uptake of the Z cameras is so sluggish.
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I would really like to see some actual stats to show how many people still own a collection of AF and AF-D Nikkors, and what proportion of that group would buy a Z camera if there was an adapter that preserved AF.

In the absence of such stats, we are all guessing. My guess is that the number of people in the above category is quite small - though a few are quite vocal - and this issue has had little impact on Z sales.
 
fPrime said:
yray said:
BGD300V1 said:
yray said:
VBLondon said:
Nikon maintained the F mount from 1959....not from 1985. That makes the F mount more cumbersome, needing more mechanical linkages etc. The adapter challenge is different. You don't know how much more inherent complexity there is in an FTZ adaptor compared to a Sony A-FE or Canon EF-RF.
Click to expand...
Is this a fact about cumbersome mechanical linkages or a hypothesis?
fPrime said:
The other factor is lens availability. Sony have only 19 A mount FF lenses, so when the FE system started, they had to have a screwdrive adapter to make the lens range broad enough. Nikon have more than 40 AFS FX lenses supported by the FTZ.
Click to expand...
To me it sounds like Nikon simply wants you to upgrade your old screwdriver lenses to the much more expensive new Z mount lenses, -- that's my hypothesis. No matter how much you like those old lenses. I'm yet to see any reason to upgrade, for instance, 85/1.4D, 105/2DC, 135/2DC, or 180/2.8D to anything whatsoever. IMHO, they are perfectly fine lenses in their own right, warts and all. I'm not saying they are fine for everyone, I'm just saying it would be nice if those who think they are fine could continue using them on Z should they so choose.
Click to expand...
Have you considered simply not buying a Z?
Click to expand...
Indeed, I have not considered buying it yet. ;-)
Click to expand...
Neither have I. And Nikon wonders why the uptake of the Z cameras is so sluggish.

fPrime
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Yes, this survey of two provides clear cut empirical evidence.
 
briantilley said:
I would really like to see some actual stats to show how many people still own a collection of AF and AF-D Nikkors, and what proportion of that group would buy a Z camera if there was an adapter that preserved AF.

In the absence of such stats, we are all guessing. My guess is that the number of people in the above category is quite small - though a few are quite vocal - and this issue has had little impact on Z sales.
Click to expand...
I would add one thing. Since the evolution of high MP sensors there is more "stress" on lenses. Newer optical formulas with aspherical and exotic glass elements are catering to the demands of the high resolution sensors.

I wonder how some older lenses would perform on high resolution sensors when we compare their performances to lenses of present generations. One discipline where I see older lenses working well is portraiture. Others like macro, landscape or bird photography, where high detail is preferable, might suffer.

Best, AIK
 
Antal I Kozma said:
briantilley said:
I would really like to see some actual stats to show how many people still own a collection of AF and AF-D Nikkors, and what proportion of that group would buy a Z camera if there was an adapter that preserved AF.

In the absence of such stats, we are all guessing. My guess is that the number of people in the above category is quite small - though a few are quite vocal - and this issue has had little impact on Z sales.
Click to expand...
I would add one thing. Since the evolution of high MP sensors there is more "stress" on lenses. Newer optical formulas with aspherical and exotic glass elements are catering to the demands of the high resolution sensors.

I wonder how some older lenses would perform on high resolution sensors when we compare their performances to lenses of present generations. One discipline where I see older lenses working well is portraiture. Others like macro, landscape or bird photography, where high detail is preferable, might suffer.
Click to expand...
You might be surprised (I was) by the amount of detail a relatively very new high pixel density sensor can pull out of a very old lens:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4434417
Antal I Kozma said:
Best, AIK
Click to expand...
 
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