D7100 and SB-800 Flash Help

Hello folks.

I’ve got back to photography recently after some time away through illness. I’ve got a second hand Nikon D7100 and SB-800 speedlight which I’m hoping I’ll be able to get some good pictures with. But I’m having trouble getting off-camera flash and CLS to work - at least how I thought it would work! Please can someone offer me some advice and direction?

I want to find the sweet spot with my Sigma macro lens to see what is my best aperture to use when photographing flowers up close so I set up a little experiment but the camera didn’t perform as I expected.

I’ve set the flash to “Remote” Channel 1 Group A

I've set the camera as follows:

- Custom Setting Menu - ‘Bracketing/Flash’

- Flash cntrl for built-in flash - ‘CMD’

- CMD - Built-in flash ‘—‘ Group A - ‘TTL’ Group B ‘TTL’ Channel ‘1’

I set the camera to ‘Aperture Priority’ f4 and ISO 400

I press the flash ‘️‘ button and the in camera flash pops up

I frame my image and shoot. The off camera flash fires, shutter speed is 1/250

If I close down the aperture to F6.3, shoot, shutter speed is 1/60

If I close down to f8, shutter speed 1/60

if I close down to f11, shutter speed 1/25

I thought that the flash would fire with more power to give me a shutter speed of 1/60? Wha am I doing wrong?

Thanks everyone.

Andy

Do you have slow sync set?

--
“Stand in front of something more interesting.”

Jocksa said:

Do you have slow sync set?

Click to expand...

Hey Jocksa. No haven’t done that - please can you advise?

Hi Andy,

I have d7200 and d300 and also the SB700 flash. What i do for using the flash is to use manual rather than Aperture or shutter priorities.

Using manual you can control the background exposure using the shutter speed. The TTL flash will control ths exposure of your subject. Because the flash fires very quickly, in effect the shutter speed doesn't affect the subject exposure.

So as an example, you can set the shutter speed to cause a black exposure without the flash, or if not black very dark. When you enable the flash you can by carefully positioning the flash end up with a brightly lit flower against a black background. Using the CLS flash system you are not limited to 1/250 of a second for the flash sync....however be aware that at a faster shutter speed the flash effectively fires multiple times to enable sufficient exposure. It happens really quickly so i have not been able to see it. The upshot of this is that you will need to move the flash closer to the subject and/or increase the ISO value.

I have just done a quick rough examplle using my D300 on manual with the DX 35mm lens. I set the aperture at F4, and shutter speeds from very slow to fast. Please check the exif info for details. The slow shutter speed cleatly shows the tractor with the window in the background. The faster shutter speed loses the background, but because the bucket on the tractor is black it also gets lost. I used the SB700 mounted pn a tripod at approx 30cm from the subject. The crucial thing is that the exposure for the subject is the same. The slower shutter speed is also allowing more ambient light to iluminate the subject.

I'm not sure this answers your question, but suffice to say i tend to stick using manual when using a flash either remotely or on camera.













There are lots of tutorials on You Tube that you may find helpful. Then experiment on the types of images you like to capture, the beauty is that with digital it costs very little!

Good luck

Peter

brahma1965 said:

Jocksa said:

Do you have slow sync set?

Click to expand...

Hey Jocksa. No haven’t done that - please can you advise?

Click to expand...

If you want (almost) all of your illumination to come from the flash, you don't want slow sync (or rear, which is the same but the flash fires on the rear curtain rather than the front curtain) set because that exposes for the ambient light and hence your shutter speed changes as you change your aperture.

When you press the flash button, check your top display and ensure there are no icons showing (no "slow" and no "rear"). If there is, use the rear dial to get rid.

d50bsl said:

Hi Andy,

I have d7200 and d300 and also the SB700 flash. What i do for using the flash is to use manual rather than Aperture or shutter priorities.

Click to expand...

.. more.

Yours is a very helpful post that Andy should find helpful. I like and use flash a lot and use it exactly in the way you describe. The SB800 is a nice flashgun (I've got one) but the user interface is much better in the SB700.

d50bsl said:

Hi Andy,

I have d7200 and d300 and also the SB700 flash. What i do for using the flash is to use manual rather than Aperture or shutter priorities.

Using manual you can control the background exposure using the shutter speed. The TTL flash will control ths exposure of your subject. Because the flash fires very quickly, in effect the shutter speed doesn't affect the subject exposure.

So as an example, you can set the shutter speed to cause a black exposure without the flash, or if not black very dark. When you enable the flash you can by carefully positioning the flash end up with a brightly lit flower against a black background. Using the CLS flash system you are not limited to 1/250 of a second for the flash sync....however be aware that at a faster shutter speed the flash effectively fires multiple times to enable sufficient exposure. It happens really quickly so i have not been able to see it. The upshot of this is that you will need to move the flash closer to the subject and/or increase the ISO value.

I have just done a quick rough examplle using my D300 on manual with the DX 35mm lens. I set the aperture at F4, and shutter speeds from very slow to fast. Please check the exif info for details. The slow shutter speed cleatly shows the tractor with the window in the background. The faster shutter speed loses the background, but because the bucket on the tractor is black it also gets lost. I used the SB700 mounted pn a tripod at approx 30cm from the subject. The crucial thing is that the exposure for the subject is the same. The slower shutter speed is also allowing more ambient light to iluminate the subject.

I'm not sure this answers your question, but suffice to say i tend to stick using manual when using a flash either remotely or on camera.





There are lots of tutorials on You Tube that you may find helpful. Then experiment on the types of images you like to capture, the beauty is that with digital it costs very little!

Good luck

Peter

Click to expand...

Thanks Peter - I’ll give that a go today and see how I get on.

Is there anything I should do with the flash? I’ve got it set in Remote so CLS works but I haven’t changed the flashes intensity - should I do this before I put it in Remote?

Also, there is a Zoom option on the flash that goes from 24mm to 105mm (while in Remote) should I set this to anything in particular?

Sorry if I’m being a hit dense here, but having looked through the flash’s handbook, I can’t see anything that explains this



Thanks again.

brahma1965 said:

d50bsl said:

Hi Andy,

I have d7200 and d300 and also the SB700 flash. What i do for using the flash is to use manual rather than Aperture or shutter priorities.

Using manual you can control the background exposure using the shutter speed. The TTL flash will control ths exposure of your subject. Because the flash fires very quickly, in effect the shutter speed doesn't affect the subject exposure.

So as an example, you can set the shutter speed to cause a black exposure without the flash, or if not black very dark. When you enable the flash you can by carefully positioning the flash end up with a brightly lit flower against a black background. Using the CLS flash system you are not limited to 1/250 of a second for the flash sync....however be aware that at a faster shutter speed the flash effectively fires multiple times to enable sufficient exposure. It happens really quickly so i have not been able to see it. The upshot of this is that you will need to move the flash closer to the subject and/or increase the ISO value.

I have just done a quick rough examplle using my D300 on manual with the DX 35mm lens. I set the aperture at F4, and shutter speeds from very slow to fast. Please check the exif info for details. The slow shutter speed cleatly shows the tractor with the window in the background. The faster shutter speed loses the background, but because the bucket on the tractor is black it also gets lost. I used the SB700 mounted pn a tripod at approx 30cm from the subject. The crucial thing is that the exposure for the subject is the same. The slower shutter speed is also allowing more ambient light to iluminate the subject.

I'm not sure this answers your question, but suffice to say i tend to stick using manual when using a flash either remotely or on camera.





There are lots of tutorials on You Tube that you may find helpful. Then experiment on the types of images you like to capture, the beauty is that with digital it costs very little!

Good luck

Peter

Click to expand...

Thanks Peter - I’ll give that a go today and see how I get on.

Is there anything I should do with the flash? I’ve got it set in Remote so CLS works but I haven’t changed the flashes intensity - should I do this before I put it in Remote?

Also, there is a Zoom option on the flash that goes from 24mm to 105mm (while in Remote) should I set this to anything in particular?

Sorry if I’m being a hit dense here, but having looked through the flash’s handbook, I can’t see anything that explains this

Thanks again.

Click to expand...

Hey Peter.

I’ve just tried as you suggested in manual but as soon as I press the flash button, the shutter speed goes to 1/250 - how do I change this?

Sorry for all the basic questions

brahma1965 said:

I’ve just tried as you suggested in manual but as soon as I press the flash button, the shutter speed goes to 1/250 - how do I change this?

Click to expand...

The behaviour you describe is correct.

If you attempt to dial in a shutter speed that is faster than the maximum x-sync of the body (probably 1/250s for your camera) the shutter speed will be lowered to the max x-sync speed. You can however, dial in a slower shutter speed, say, 1/100s, and that will be preserved.

If you want less ambient light reaching the sensor you must set a smaller aperture. You can also reduce the ISO setting.

David Lal said:

brahma1965 said:

I’ve just tried as you suggested in manual but as soon as I press the flash button, the shutter speed goes to 1/250 - how do I change this?

Click to expand...

The behaviour you describe is correct.

If you attempt to dial in a shutter speed that is faster than the maximum x-sync of the body (probably 1/250s for your camera) the shutter speed will be lowered to the max x-sync speed. You can however, dial in a slower shutter speed, say, 1/100s, and that will be preserved.

If you want less ambient light reaching the sensor you must set a smaller aperture. You can also reduce the ISO setting.

Click to expand...

Thanks David.

I'm really confused - you can probably tell I've never used off camera flash before!!

If I have a shutter speed of, say, 1/60 and aperture of f4 and shoot, the off camera flash fires and I get an image. If I change the aperture to f8, shutter speed to 1/60 and shoot, the off camera flash fires and I get an image but it's under exposed. If I do it again but on f11, same result but even more under exposed. I thought the camera and flash would talk to each other and set the correct exposure by the flash intensity increasing? Have I got this wrong?

Many thanks

I have a D7200 and SB-800, but I believe it should be pretty much the same process.

brahma1965 said:

I’ve set the flash to “Remote” Channel 1 Group A

Click to expand...

Check.

brahma1965 said:

I've set the camera as follows:

- Custom Setting Menu - ‘Bracketing/Flash’

- Flash cntrl for built-in flash - ‘CMD’

- CMD - Built-in flash ‘—‘ Group A - ‘TTL’ Group B ‘TTL’ Channel ‘1’

Click to expand...

I suggest setting Group B to '--" as well unless you are using multiple off camera flashes.

brahma1965 said:

I set the camera to ‘Aperture Priority’ f4 and ISO 400

I press the flash ‘️‘ button and the in camera flash pops up

Click to expand...

Check

brahma1965 said:

I frame my image and shoot. The off camera flash fires, shutter speed is 1/250

Click to expand...

Okay, here's where we diverge. When I do this, the shutter speed is set to 1/60th. Perhaps you've got things set differently?

brahma1965 said:

If I close down the aperture to F6.3, shoot, shutter speed is 1/60

If I close down to f8, shutter speed 1/60

if I close down to f11, shutter speed 1/25

Click to expand...

With my gear, at all apertures the shutter speed remains at 1/60th in Aperture priority mode even in a dimly lit room. I checked with both a 50mm f/1.8 AF-S and a 60mm f/2.8D Macro.

brahma1965 said:

I thought that the flash would fire with more power to give me a shutter speed of 1/60? Wha am I doing wrong?

Click to expand...

I'd suggest checking your other custom settings and check the zoom setting on the SB-800. Off camera, you have to set the flash zoom manually, and I believe it defaults to 24mm without the diffuser and 14mm if you leave it on.

What I can't help you with the variation you report in flash exposure. My D7200 is IR converted, and as a result trying to get a good flash exposure is, well, "interesting."

Hi David

I agree in normal mode the max flash shutter speed is 1/250 as this is a mechanical limitation.

My experience seems to be different when using CLS, and the Nikon Advanced Wireles Lighting flash capability.

The camera needs to be setup as follows:

Menu option 'Flash Sync Speed'

I select 1/320 Auto FP. According to the D300 manual, when a compatible flash unit is used (SB 600, 800, 700 ) and the shutter speed is faster than 1/320 then high speed sync is invoked. The flash pulses light to create the level of light required.

In the exif of my photos i can see the shutter speed is exactly as I set it on the camera. 1/1600, in manual mode and using the remote capability of my D7200, D300, I can achieve flash sync at the fastest shutter speed of the cameras. My understanding is that in this mode the flash actually fires multiple times extremely quickly to deliver the ttl measured output. It does reduce the flash range/power a lot but it does seem to work.

Even with the SB700 mounted on the camera you have effectively got a high speed sync capability. In reality the true flash sync speed is 1/250 , the caveat being it needs to be set at 1/250 (Auto FP), or 1/320 Auto FP.

On the D300 the default is 1/250 i think with out the auto FP option, so you need to set this in the e1 menu option.

I haven't checked the D7200 manual yet.

But will check later.

It is a very useful feature enabling you to control the background lighting etc even on a bright day.

I may find time to experiment a bit more and post some 8mages.

Many thanks

Peter

Hi Andy

Just a thought....

In menu option e1 found under Bracketing/Flash

You need to set e1 Flash sync speed to 1/250 (Auto FP), you can also set 1/320 Auto FP.

This will mean the camera will allow you to set a shutter speed of 1/1600 with you remote flash and it will sync the flash at that speed without reverting to the 1/250 default.

On the flash, all i have set is the flash in 'Remote', it will work in TTL and the flash is able to be adjusted to create the correct exoposure.

Apologies i forgot to mention the flash setting e1 to make sure its set at Auto FP.

Hope that helps.

Michael Benveniste said:

What I can't help you with the variation you report in flash exposure. My D7200 is IR converted, and as a result trying to get a good flash exposure is, well, "interesting."

Click to expand...

Michael, I have modified a flashgun to emit only infrared. I did this by making a filter for the flashgun out of IR pass perspex. I think there are a few different types and I can't remember which I used - could have been 962.

Of course, having done so I needed to calibrate the flashgun+filter. It was not particularly difficult but the result is a flashgun, the 'light' of which nobody can see. This is handy for musical events and so on;


D90 modified for IR @ 720nm + homemade infrared flashgun


D90 modified for IR @ 720nm + homemade infrared flashgun

David Lal said:

Michael Benveniste said:

What I can't help you with the variation you report in flash exposure. My D7200 is IR converted, and as a result trying to get a good flash exposure is, well, "interesting."

Click to expand...

Michael, I have modified a flashgun to emit only infrared. I did this by making a filter for the flashgun out of IR pass perspex. I think there are a few different types and I can't remember which I used - could have been 962.

Click to expand...

I've resorted to brute force at times -- holding an IR820 cut filter over the flash head. But neither your cleaner approach nor mine is going to help the original poster with flash output consistency with an SB-800!

brahma1965 said:

David Lal said:

brahma1965 said:

I’ve just tried as you suggested in manual but as soon as I press the flash button, the shutter speed goes to 1/250 - how do I change this?

Click to expand...

The behaviour you describe is correct.

If you attempt to dial in a shutter speed that is faster than the maximum x-sync of the body (probably 1/250s for your camera) the shutter speed will be lowered to the max x-sync speed. You can however, dial in a slower shutter speed, say, 1/100s, and that will be preserved.

If you want less ambient light reaching the sensor you must set a smaller aperture. You can also reduce the ISO setting.

Click to expand...

Thanks David.

I'm really confused - you can probably tell I've never used off camera flash before!!

If I have a shutter speed of, say, 1/60 and aperture of f4 and shoot, the off camera flash fires and I get an image. If I change the aperture to f8, shutter speed to 1/60 and shoot, the off camera flash fires and I get an image but it's under exposed. If I do it again but on f11, same result but even more under exposed. I thought the camera and flash would talk to each other and set the correct exposure by the flash intensity increasing? Have I got this wrong?

Many thanks

Click to expand...

The situation I described requires that the camera be in manual mode. In that mode you are responsible for setting everything both on the camera and the flashgun. If you have a set of exposure determinants that are producing a correct exposure and then you, for instance, change the aperture by one stop down then, as you have found, you will have an underexposed image. Conversely, increase the aperture and the image will be overexposed. Used this way, you are not making use of Nikon's CLS.

If you put the camera into aperture priority mode and have set flash exposure control in the camera's menu to TTL, as you would expect, increasing or decreasing aperture will indeed be compensated by the system and all the images will look (within reason) more or less the same.

I have a SB800 and I have just fired some test shots in both modes before writing this response. Generally, I do not use CLS myself. I think there is a 'strobist' forum here in DPR that you might find helpful.