A5/A6 shoulds & woulds

So given the current situation, the Z5, the R5, the RP & the fact that Sony apparently won’t update menus on existing bodies, and presumably wont deliver material firmware upgrades either, where should a new entry level camera be positioned? Here are my thoughts:

1.) it should make sense for new buyers to the system and hence come with a new, decent kit lens. Maybe 24-150? F3.5-4.5? One could dream about a 20-80

2.) it should have the bionz xr, new menu and Real time tracking autofocus

3.) it should make sense as a step up from aps-c users, and hence provide decent resolution in apsc mode. Ie 42mp

4.) it should be a smaller form factor. Ideally a6600 with ibis and the new battery

it can compromise on:

- dual card

- number of ports

- maybe waterproofiness

opinions?

Entry level generally means low cost so you can forget the 42 mp sensor, it'll likely be 24 mp Imo.

There are strong rumors of an entry level FF with an a6xxx series body. If sony wants to compete with the rp you should prepare yourself for some serious downgrades. Single card slot, no ibis, unlikely weather sealing, buttons, controls and AF similar to the new mid/high end apsc line.

42mp in an entry level FF "A5/A6" LOL! April 1st was a while ago...

Depends on if it's entry level or rangefinder style...rumors are all over the place. I'd prefer a mid-level rangefinder (ie. FF in a A6600 body) with 30-36mp sensor, A7III AF and vid capabilities and tilty-flippy screen, for ~$2000-2400. If they are indeed just going entry level to compete with the Z5 then I think it should/would have:

24mp sensor from the 7III

Same AF as 7III

Cheapest EVF possible probably (as opposed to no EVF)

4k/30, 1080/60, 8bit

Same old rear LCD as A7III

Single UHS-II SD slot

Last gen IBIS

New menus and touchscreen would be important (aimed at new users coming from cellphones)

Basically it'd be an A7III with a smaller body, priced at ~$1200 ideally.

I don't see how they can go any cheaper without just rebadging old-stock A7II's. The problem is if they go any better than that (or if they even do that) I imagine a bunch of 7III users are gonna be disappointed to see Sony offers 99% of their camera for 60% of the price. So that makes me a bit worried that it's gonna be super nerfed in some way or another.

I do think they should make a better kit lens, something like 28-80mm f3.5-4.5 or even 20/24-50/55mm f2.8-4. Something small, fairly sharp, but compromises like distortion and CA (it is a kit lens after all) that would rely on software corrections.

Bigbradford said:

Entry level generally means low cost so you can forget the 42 mp sensor, it'll likely be 24 mp Imo.

Click to expand...

you can buy a7r2 new, for 1399. Ibis and all. Stick a bionz xr with a new menu and presto

Bigbradford said:

There are strong rumors of an entry level FF with an a6xxx series body. If sony wants to compete with the rp you should prepare yourself for some serious downgrades. Single card slot, no ibis, unlikely weather sealing, buttons, controls and AF similar to the new mid/high end apsc line.

Click to expand...

Jeff Style said:

42mp in an entry level FF "A5/A6" LOL! April 1st was a while ago...

Click to expand...

Maybe you are right. But I think it will need to be a higher res than 24mp to be a viable upgrade path from both apsc users, as well as the various 1st and 2nd gen bodies. Whenever someone comes to the forum and asks, I have an a7, what should I upgrade to, there will be a bunch of guys saying a7iii, but ultimately, the full upgrade option is the a7r3. The a7iii will always be there. They can drop it to 1499. It will still have the superior form factor dual card slots etc. In fact Nikon only has dual card in z5..

TDL2024 said:

Depends on if it's entry level or rangefinder style...rumors are all over the place. I'd prefer a mid-level rangefinder (ie. FF in a A6600 body) with 30-36mp sensor

Click to expand...

why make a new sensor instead of recycling an old one

TDL2024 said:

, A7III AF and vid capabilities and tilty-flippy screen, for ~$2000-2400.

Click to expand...

that’s far too high I think.

TDL2024 said:

If they are indeed just going entry level to compete with the Z5 then I think it should/would have:

24mp sensor from the 7III

Click to expand...

why not let the a7iii be the a7iii. I think the smaller body will be attractive to landscape photographers and hikers. This is >24 mp territory imho. I also think they should add flash

TDL2024 said:

Same AF as 7III

Cheapest EVF possible probably (as opposed to no EVF)

4k/30, 1080/60, 8bit

Same old rear LCD as A7III

Single UHS-II SD slot

Last gen IBIS

New menus and touchscreen would be important (aimed at new users coming from cellphones)

Basically it'd be an A7III with a smaller body, priced at ~$1200 ideally.
I don't see how they can go any cheaper without just rebadging old-stock A7II's. The problem is if they go any better than that (or if they even do that) I imagine a bunch of 7III users are gonna be disappointed to see Sony offers 99% of their camera for 60% of the price. So that makes me a bit worried that it's gonna be super nerfed in some way or another.

I do think they should make a better kit lens, something like 28-80mm f3.5-4.5 or even 20/24-50/55mm f2.8-4. Something small, fairly sharp, but compromises like distortion and CA (it is a kit lens after all) that would rely on software corrections.

Click to expand...

I came from M43 and have used small body cameras. I don’t understand why people would want an A6000 series body for full frame. My A7III isn't that much bigger than the M43 cameras I’ve owned. People already complain about the handling of current A7 bodies when using large lenses.

I don’t see the point of Sony making a dumb down entry level camera. If they want a “Low Price” camera to compete with other brands, this is what I think Sony should do.

• Discontinue the A7II camera or drop the price to $700. This will undercut the Canon RP.
• Lower the price of the A7RII to $1,000 - $1,100. Even though the A7RII is an older camera, it’s still a better camera than the Nikon Z5 and the Canon RP.
• Lower price of A7III to $1,600. This will undercut the Nikon Z6 and Canon R.
• Release the A7IV with 30 something MP sensor with flippy screen. Give it the same AF as the A9II. Price it around $2,200 - $2,400. This camera will complete against the Canon R6.

No need to waste time and R&D on a full frame A6000 series body that I honestly don't think there's a big market for. On the flip side, lowering all the price will be a race to the bottom and that's not always a good plan.

If anything Sony needs to make a high end crop sensor DSLR (A7 like) body. There seem to be more people wanting that style body and I'm one of those people.

AznJunkie said:

I came from M43 and have used small body cameras. I don’t understand why people would want an A6000 series body for full frame. My A7III isn't that much bigger than the M43 cameras I’ve owned. People already complain about the handling of current A7 bodies when using large lenses.

I don’t see the point of Sony making a dumb down entry level camera. If they want a “Low Price” camera to compete with other brands, this is what I think Sony should do.

• Discontinue the A7II camera or drop the price to $700. This will undercut the Canon RP.
• Lower the price of the A7RII to $1,000 - $1,100. Even though the A7RII is an older camera, it’s still a better camera than the Nikon Z5 and the Canon RP.
• Lower price of A7III to $1,600. This will undercut the Nikon Z6 and Canon R.
• Release the A7IV with 30 something MP sensor with flippy screen. Give it the same AF as the A9II. Price it around $2,200 - $2,400. This camera will complete against the Canon R6.

No need to waste time and R&D on a full frame A6000 series body that I honestly don't think there's a big market for. On the flip side, lowering all the price will be a race to the bottom and that's not always a good plan.

Click to expand...

sure. But then they need to update firmware on the old bodies, and release a new kit lens

AznJunkie said:

If anything Sony needs to make a high end crop sensor DSLR (A7 like) body. There seem to be more people wanting that style body and I'm one of those people.

Click to expand...

SafariBob said:

sure. But then they need to update firmware on the old bodies, and release a new kit lens

Click to expand...

I would agree with you there. It's better to spend the R&D funds on updating the firmware to improve current/old bodies than to create a whole new camera.

Sony can learn a thing or 2 from Fuji. By giving a new life to their older bodies, Sony can increase their loyal customers base.

I would personally welcome FF sensor in A5xxx body, preferably with IBIS.



--
Vladimir Gorbunov
«Often the difference between a good and a bad sample of the same lens is bigger than that between two different lenses» — Bastian K.

voronspb said:

I would personally welcome FF sensor in A5xxx body, preferably with IBIS.

Click to expand...

The truth is, this with the new swivel full touchscreen and menus would sell at $999. Admittedly, it would be Samyang and Tamron lenses that would shine more, not really Sony lenses. There is a market for people looking for "Full Frame" photo quality (because they constantly hear about how much better FF is while knowing little about how actual sensor size affects DOF, ISO, lens size, etc). But they don't want GM size lenses and f1.8 or f2 will give them the thinner DOF they crave....even though they call it bokeh LOL :/

SO many people are used to shooting using their cell phone or tablet screens that shooting with only the back LCD wouldn't be traumatizing to them...you can't say the same about DPR poster LOL! So there is big market there as well.

The A5xxx A6xxx bodies are still a little too short height wise because the pinky problem gets brought up with Sony bodies prior to A7r4 tons, and rightfully so, but the adoption of the Z battery and more prominent current time features, ala ZV1, would make this sell well. DPR forum folk would probably constantly write "no EVF, that's a hard pass for me" but DPR forum posters probably aren't driving sales as much as Youtubers telling their 350k subscribers how awesome this A5 is for vlogging and carrying with you everywhere.

AznJunkie said:

I came from M43 and have used small body cameras. I don’t understand why people would want an A6000 series body for full frame. My A7III isn't that much bigger than the M43 cameras I’ve owned. People already complain about the handling of current A7 bodies when using large lenses.

I don’t see the point of Sony making a dumb down entry level camera. If they want a “Low Price” camera to compete with other brands, this is what I think Sony should do.

• Discontinue the A7II camera or drop the price to $700. This will undercut the Canon RP.
• Lower the price of the A7RII to $1,000 - $1,100. Even though the A7RII is an older camera, it’s still a better camera than the Nikon Z5 and the Canon RP.
• Lower price of A7III to $1,600. This will undercut the Nikon Z6 and Canon R.
• Release the A7IV with 30 something MP sensor with flippy screen. Give it the same AF as the A9II. Price it around $2,200 - $2,400. This camera will complete against the Canon R6.

No need to waste time and R&D on a full frame A6000 series body that I honestly don't think there's a big market for. On the flip side, lowering all the price will be a race to the bottom and that's not always a good plan.

If anything Sony needs to make a high end crop sensor DSLR (A7 like) body. There seem to be more people wanting that style body and I'm one of those people.

Click to expand...

It’s not just about the smaller size, I very much want a full-frame rangefinder camera.

I have not upgraded from aspc because I’m still waiting, there are no options outside of Leica.

voronspb said:

I would personally welcome FF sensor in A5xxx body, preferably with IBIS.

Click to expand...

This! I'm waiting to upgrade my NEX-5R :O

TTo said:

voronspb said:

I would personally welcome FF sensor in A5xxx body, preferably with IBIS.

Click to expand...

This! I'm waiting to upgrade my NEX-5R :O

Click to expand...

Full Frame is nice, be aware lenses for FF cost $$ compared to APSC.

Jeff Style said:

voronspb said:

I would personally welcome FF sensor in A5xxx body, preferably with IBIS.

Click to expand...

The truth is, this with the new swivel full touchscreen and menus would sell at $999. Admittedly, it would be Samyang and Tamron lenses that would shine more, not really Sony lenses. There is a market for people looking for "Full Frame" photo quality (because they constantly hear about how much better FF is while knowing little about how actual sensor size affects DOF, ISO, lens size, etc). But they don't want GM size lenses and f1.8 or f2 will give them the thinner DOF they crave....even though they call it bokeh LOL :/

SO many people are used to shooting using their cell phone or tablet screens that shooting with only the back LCD wouldn't be traumatizing to them...you can't say the same about DPR poster LOL! So there is big market there as well.

The A5xxx A6xxx bodies are still a little too short height wise because the pinky problem gets brought up with Sony bodies prior to A7r4 tons, and rightfully so, but the adoption of the Z battery and more prominent current time features, ala ZV1, would make this sell well. DPR forum folk would probably constantly write "no EVF, that's a hard pass for me" but DPR forum posters probably aren't driving sales as much as Youtubers telling their 350k subscribers how awesome this A5 is for vlogging and carrying with you everywhere.

Click to expand...

I think that's a little condescending to some shooters. I shoot fuji atm because I like the light weight but would probably buy into a rangefineder/ A6 style FF if Sony introduced one. I'd personally want an EVF - not having one would be a deal breaker for me. But having better low light options and a couple of small primes like the Sony 28mm and Samyang 45mm would make a perfect kit

mike_7891 said:

AznJunkie said:

I came from M43 and have used small body cameras. I don’t understand why people would want an A6000 series body for full frame. My A7III isn't that much bigger than the M43 cameras I’ve owned. People already complain about the handling of current A7 bodies when using large lenses.

I don’t see the point of Sony making a dumb down entry level camera. If they want a “Low Price” camera to compete with other brands, this is what I think Sony should do.

• Discontinue the A7II camera or drop the price to $700. This will undercut the Canon RP.
• Lower the price of the A7RII to $1,000 - $1,100. Even though the A7RII is an older camera, it’s still a better camera than the Nikon Z5 and the Canon RP.
• Lower price of A7III to $1,600. This will undercut the Nikon Z6 and Canon R.
• Release the A7IV with 30 something MP sensor with flippy screen. Give it the same AF as the A9II. Price it around $2,200 - $2,400. This camera will complete against the Canon R6.

No need to waste time and R&D on a full frame A6000 series body that I honestly don't think there's a big market for. On the flip side, lowering all the price will be a race to the bottom and that's not always a good plan.

If anything Sony needs to make a high end crop sensor DSLR (A7 like) body. There seem to be more people wanting that style body and I'm one of those people.

Click to expand...

It’s not just about the smaller size, I very much want a full-frame rangefinder camera.

I have not upgraded from aspc because I’m still waiting, there are no options outside of Leica.

Click to expand...

If, by that, you mean a full frame with the EVF in rangefinder position, so I don't get nose prints on the rear screen, then I'm interested.

Why would Sony do that? How many people out there would delay upgrading if their A7RII, A7III etc got the latest and greatest menus and features? I know I would! They make money when people buy cameras, the firmware just needs to be not crap enough to avoid people selling all their FE lenses and running to Canon and Nikon in droves, and I just don't think it is that bad.

Clearly as customers we'd much rather they spend £$ on improving our current cameras, but they are in the business of making money, not making happy customers regardless of the cost, so that money is going to go into developing the next models which most will eventually go out an buy.

And completely agree about rangefinder FF being a waste of time. With the size of full frame lenses there is next to no size benefit - my A7rii is already smaller than a Panasonic G9!

AlephNull said:

mike_7891 said:

AznJunkie said:

I came from M43 and have used small body cameras. I don’t understand why people would want an A6000 series body for full frame. My A7III isn't that much bigger than the M43 cameras I’ve owned. People already complain about the handling of current A7 bodies when using large lenses.

I don’t see the point of Sony making a dumb down entry level camera. If they want a “Low Price” camera to compete with other brands, this is what I think Sony should do.

• Discontinue the A7II camera or drop the price to $700. This will undercut the Canon RP.
• Lower the price of the A7RII to $1,000 - $1,100. Even though the A7RII is an older camera, it’s still a better camera than the Nikon Z5 and the Canon RP.
• Lower price of A7III to $1,600. This will undercut the Nikon Z6 and Canon R.
• Release the A7IV with 30 something MP sensor with flippy screen. Give it the same AF as the A9II. Price it around $2,200 - $2,400. This camera will complete against the Canon R6.

No need to waste time and R&D on a full frame A6000 series body that I honestly don't think there's a big market for. On the flip side, lowering all the price will be a race to the bottom and that's not always a good plan.

If anything Sony needs to make a high end crop sensor DSLR (A7 like) body. There seem to be more people wanting that style body and I'm one of those people.

Click to expand...

It’s not just about the smaller size, I very much want a full-frame rangefinder camera.

I have not upgraded from aspc because I’m still waiting, there are no options outside of Leica.

Click to expand...

If, by that, you mean a full frame with the EVF in rangefinder position, so I don't get nose prints on the rear screen, then I'm interested.

Click to expand...

Yes exactly what I mean, EVF is a must.

ukbassman said:

Why would Sony do that? How many people out there would delay upgrading if their A7RII, A7III etc got the latest and greatest menus and features? I know I would! They make money when people buy cameras, the firmware just needs to be not crap enough to avoid people selling all their FE lenses and running to Canon and Nikon in droves, and I just don't think it is that bad.

Clearly as customers we'd much rather they spend £$ on improving our current cameras, but they are in the business of making money, not making happy customers regardless of the cost, so that money is going to go into developing the next models which most will eventually go out an buy.

And completely agree about rangefinder FF being a waste of time. With the size of full frame lenses there is next to no size benefit - my A7rii is already smaller than a Panasonic G9!

Click to expand...

I'd imagine that if it's an entry level with similar specs to the A7iii (maybe missing a couple of the higher end features) there would be lots of people who would buy into a smaller, A6400 sized FF camera. Marketing would be aimed at people who buy DSLR's or mirrorless but promising pro standard, better in low light etc. As for the size if the lenses, many of the people who bought the A6000 series never changed the 16-50mm kit lens and were perfectly happy with that. Nikon have just brought out the Z5 with a 24-50 almost pancake kit lens so no reason Sony couldn't offer something similar