R5: What do 'video people' think?

jonpais said:

bodeswell said:

jonpais said:

bodeswell said:

Peak freak said:

henrikbengtsson said:

Peak freak said:

henrikbengtsson said:

Peak freak said:

bodeswell said:

Peak freak said:

lawny13 said:

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/865...s-r5-and-r6-work-as-promised-thats-not-enough

Click to expand...

Again: [I have tried to make this very clear] It is not the actual performance of the cameras that I am concerned about, it is about how Canon promoted them, and how they function in reality.

All I can offer, is that if these cameras lived up to Canon's own hype, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Likewise DPR (and many others) wouldn't be either.

Click to expand...

How many times in how many threads are you going to say the same thing?

The cameras do exactly what Canon said they would.

Canon just ran into a determined counter-marketing campaign.

Click to expand...

You're right. I am getting tired of repeating myself.

And yes, Canon have run into a determined counter-marketing campaign.

You should probably ask yourself why that is. Why the R5 was the darling of the camera world just prior to launch, and internet enemy No. 1 just after

Click to expand...

It was and still is. The main target is going haywire as we speak. First shipment is out. Watch this camera sell like crazy.

Apparently Video shooters seem to be expecting and demanding pro-grade performance in a tiny still camera. Because that would be almost too good to be true, wouldn't it?

Marketing is marketing. Jeez...learn how to be skeptical, read reviews and try the tool before crying all over the internet.

Sorry but many sound like spoiled kids who didn't get what they wanted for Xmas..

Click to expand...

Thanks, but I did ask what hybrid / video users thought about the limitations, and you definitely sound of the stills persuasion.

If you are by some chance a hybrid shooter, I take it that you are good with it.

Click to expand...

Ahh, sorry about that. Yes, stills only. I didn't read the subject properly. My bad...but I still think the same about reasonable expectations.

Also, when rumours hit the internet before launch, excitement grows more than Canon can control. That said I don't think Canon expected any REAL video pros to think about the R5 as a main camera. A "Photoshop Elements" if you will...

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I'm a stills shooter too, so I understand where you are coming from, but I also understand why hybrid / video users would feel misled by Canon's marketing campaign.

Canon (eventually) had me sold (figuratively speaking) on the video specs, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing when numerous reviewers started examining the heat limitations. I initially dismissed them as scaremongering but now think Canon overplayed the ability of the R5 as a video 'tool'.

There are many examples, but here is a snippet: "With its ability to record in cinema industry-standard formats and codecs, the EOS R5 is an ideal lead camera for many productions but also, given its compatibility with cinema workflows, the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end production sets.”

Tell me that (and all those juicy specs) wouldn't have got your boogie on if you were video orientated! (No matter how cynical you are to marketing, when someone is 'selling' you what you want it to hear, it sounds great).

[Use of an external recorder will negate a lot of the limitations, but Canon did stress the point of 'in-camera' recording].

Click to expand...

What does your snippet say that isn't true? You choose to interpret it as if it said "will shoot full length motion pictures in 8K". Also, you sure are fixated on what you say "video orientated" people must think for someone who isn't a video shooter.

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I don’t know why you need to interpret anything. It’s in the King’s English. But I’ll give it a shot!

“the EOS R5 [Canon mirrorless camera] is an ideal [most suitable for a task] lead camera [the primary camera on a set] for many productions but also, given its compatibility with cinema workflows, the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end [high quality, highly paid] production sets [includes film and TV production, television commercials, web commercials, corporate videos, product videos, marketing videos, event videos, wedding video.] ”

ILCs are already currently being used for making corporate marketing videos, product videos, event videos and wedding videos, but seldom as lead cameras for TV or movies (but sometimes used for very low budget independent films).

The requirements for a camera used in a high quality, high paid shoot are many, but at minimum, I think we can agree that two important factors are (1) great image quality and (2) reliability.

Parker Walbeck’s YT channel shows how to make polished videos using ILCs: everything ranging from real estate, fitness videos and interviews, to weddings and car ads, for paying clients. He shoots with lots of cameras but I notice he really likes his 1D X Mark III. Because he is extremely talented at what he does, I am really looking forward to learning what he thinks of the R5.

Let’s set aside Hollywood. No jumping out of buildings, flying helicopters, blowing things up, 115 degree Fahrenheit desert battles... How would the R5 perform just perched comfortably on a tripod to shoot a two-minute re-enactment of a movie scene? Just two men and a room - no guns, no knives, no explosives... Armando Ferriera, Canon devotee, filmmaker and self-professed gear nerd, eager to find out, put the R5 through its paces, shooting several real world production tests (with crew, gaffers, focus puller, actors, makeup artists, fancy cinema lens, rented film set, etc...) with the R5. We already know the R5 shoots lovely 8K and 4K HQ. All the thing is required to do is to expose the sensor! Can it do it?

Click to expand...

That's actually a pretty good review. Yes, he says there are some limitations, but he clearly really likes the camera anyway. Also, he says he thinks Canon may just be being very conservative with their overheating warnings since the camera, battery, card are never hot. He speculates that Canon will be able to enhance the 8K capabilities of the camera in fairly simple ways. And the scenes he shot look pretty good to me. There is also this by the same film maker: https://fstoppers.com/gear/testing-canon-r5-8k-raw-cinematic-setting-502388

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Yep, if it weren’t for YT compression, they’d look like Netflix. hehe

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bodeswell said:

jonpais said:

bodeswell said:

jonpais said:

bodeswell said:

Peak freak said:

henrikbengtsson said:

Peak freak said:

henrikbengtsson said:

Peak freak said:

bodeswell said:

Peak freak said:

lawny13 said:

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/865...s-r5-and-r6-work-as-promised-thats-not-enough

Click to expand...

Again: [I have tried to make this very clear] It is not the actual performance of the cameras that I am concerned about, it is about how Canon promoted them, and how they function in reality.

All I can offer, is that if these cameras lived up to Canon's own hype, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Likewise DPR (and many others) wouldn't be either.

Click to expand...

How many times in how many threads are you going to say the same thing?

The cameras do exactly what Canon said they would.

Canon just ran into a determined counter-marketing campaign.

Click to expand...

You're right. I am getting tired of repeating myself.

And yes, Canon have run into a determined counter-marketing campaign.

You should probably ask yourself why that is. Why the R5 was the darling of the camera world just prior to launch, and internet enemy No. 1 just after

Click to expand...

It was and still is. The main target is going haywire as we speak. First shipment is out. Watch this camera sell like crazy.

Apparently Video shooters seem to be expecting and demanding pro-grade performance in a tiny still camera. Because that would be almost too good to be true, wouldn't it?

Marketing is marketing. Jeez...learn how to be skeptical, read reviews and try the tool before crying all over the internet.

Sorry but many sound like spoiled kids who didn't get what they wanted for Xmas..

Click to expand...

Thanks, but I did ask what hybrid / video users thought about the limitations, and you definitely sound of the stills persuasion.

If you are by some chance a hybrid shooter, I take it that you are good with it.

Click to expand...

Ahh, sorry about that. Yes, stills only. I didn't read the subject properly. My bad...but I still think the same about reasonable expectations.

Also, when rumours hit the internet before launch, excitement grows more than Canon can control. That said I don't think Canon expected any REAL video pros to think about the R5 as a main camera. A "Photoshop Elements" if you will...

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I'm a stills shooter too, so I understand where you are coming from, but I also understand why hybrid / video users would feel misled by Canon's marketing campaign.

Canon (eventually) had me sold (figuratively speaking) on the video specs, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing when numerous reviewers started examining the heat limitations. I initially dismissed them as scaremongering but now think Canon overplayed the ability of the R5 as a video 'tool'.

There are many examples, but here is a snippet: "With its ability to record in cinema industry-standard formats and codecs, the EOS R5 is an ideal lead camera for many productions but also, given its compatibility with cinema workflows, the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end production sets.”

Tell me that (and all those juicy specs) wouldn't have got your boogie on if you were video orientated! (No matter how cynical you are to marketing, when someone is 'selling' you what you want it to hear, it sounds great).

[Use of an external recorder will negate a lot of the limitations, but Canon did stress the point of 'in-camera' recording].

Click to expand...

What does your snippet say that isn't true? You choose to interpret it as if it said "will shoot full length motion pictures in 8K". Also, you sure are fixated on what you say "video orientated" people must think for someone who isn't a video shooter.

Click to expand...

I don’t know why you need to interpret anything. It’s in the King’s English. But I’ll give it a shot!

“the EOS R5 [Canon mirrorless camera] is an ideal [most suitable for a task] lead camera [the primary camera on a set] for many productions but also, given its compatibility with cinema workflows, the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end [high quality, highly paid] production sets [includes film and TV production, television commercials, web commercials, corporate videos, product videos, marketing videos, event videos, wedding video.] ”

ILCs are already currently being used for making corporate marketing videos, product videos, event videos and wedding videos, but seldom as lead cameras for TV or movies (but sometimes used for very low budget independent films).

The requirements for a camera used in a high quality, high paid shoot are many, but at minimum, I think we can agree that two important factors are (1) great image quality and (2) reliability.

Parker Walbeck’s YT channel shows how to make polished videos using ILCs: everything ranging from real estate, fitness videos and interviews, to weddings and car ads, for paying clients. He shoots with lots of cameras but I notice he really likes his 1D X Mark III. Because he is extremely talented at what he does, I am really looking forward to learning what he thinks of the R5.

Let’s set aside Hollywood. No jumping out of buildings, flying helicopters, blowing things up, 115 degree Fahrenheit desert battles... How would the R5 perform just perched comfortably on a tripod to shoot a two-minute re-enactment of a movie scene? Just two men and a room - no guns, no knives, no explosives... Armando Ferriera, Canon devotee, filmmaker and self-professed gear nerd, eager to find out, put the R5 through its paces, shooting several real world production tests (with crew, gaffers, focus puller, actors, makeup artists, fancy cinema lens, rented film set, etc...) with the R5. We already know the R5 shoots lovely 8K and 4K HQ. All the thing is required to do is to expose the sensor! Can it do it?

Click to expand...

That's actually a pretty good review. Yes, he says there are some limitations, but he clearly really likes the camera anyway. Also, he says he thinks Canon may just be being very conservative with their overheating warnings since the camera, battery, card are never hot. He speculates that Canon will be able to enhance the 8K capabilities of the camera in fairly simple ways. And the scenes he shot look pretty good to me. There is also this by the same film maker: https://fstoppers.com/gear/testing-canon-r5-8k-raw-cinematic-setting-502388

Click to expand...

Yep, if it weren’t for YT compression, they’d look like Netflix. hehe

Click to expand...

See how easy it is to move the goalposts? First cite a YT video, then comment on YT compression.

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bodeswell said:

I recommend both videos because Ferreira is pretty objective.

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Peak freak said:

Thanks for the reply. I'm a stills shooter too, so I understand where you are coming from, but I also understand why hybrid / video users would feel misled by Canon's marketing campaign.

Canon (eventually) had me sold (figuratively speaking) on the video specs, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing when numerous reviewers started examining the heat limitations. I initially dismissed them as scaremongering but now think Canon overplayed the ability of the R5 as a video 'tool'.

There are many examples, but here is a snippet: "With its ability to record in cinema industry-standard formats and codecs, the EOS R5 is an ideal lead camera for many productions but also, given its compatibility with cinema workflows, the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end production sets.”

Tell me that (and all those juicy specs) wouldn't have got your boogie on if you were video orientated! (No matter how cynical you are to marketing, when someone is 'selling' you what you want it to hear, it sounds great).

[Use of an external recorder will negate a lot of the limitations, but Canon did stress the point of 'in-camera' recording].

Click to expand...

Mr_Win said:

That DPReview heart finding means that the canon is a disaster, however, I’m speculating that it’s largely the cripple hammer. I don’t understand how setup can lose you so much time.

kill the EVF draw, lower the resolution, dim the screen, lower the refresh. There has to be a better way that’s heat neutral.

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Peak freak said:

Just to be clear, I think the R5 is shaping up to be a great (stills) camera that a lot of Canon photographers have been waiting for, including myself.

However, I am heavily critical (or confused) about their marketing and promotional campaign, prior to launch. I believe they targeted video content producers / professionals with desirable specifications and despite initial concerns about things like heat dissipation, continued to assure its ability for video use.

I think it was straight-up misleading, but many people have come to Canon's defense that their marketing was not misleading, or it unintended to be so. I'm going to guess this support is all from photographers.

So, I'm curious. What to video users think? Were Canon taking the p*ss, or is it all good in the hood?

[I'm not just talking about 8K. 5 minutes of 8K RAW is impressive. I'm talking about its overall usability, for a 'hybrid / video professional'].

Click to expand...

Peak freak said:

Just to be clear, I think the R5 is shaping up to be a great (stills) camera that a lot of Canon photographers have been waiting for, including myself.

However, I am heavily critical (or confused) about their marketing and promotional campaign, prior to launch. I believe they targeted video content producers / professionals with desirable specifications and despite initial concerns about things like heat dissipation, continued to assure its ability for video use.

I think it was straight-up misleading, but many people have come to Canon's defense that their marketing was not misleading, or it unintended to be so. I'm going to guess this support is all from photographers.

So, I'm curious. What to video users think? Were Canon taking the p*ss, or is it all good in the hood?

[I'm not just talking about 8K. 5 minutes of 8K RAW is impressive. I'm talking about its overall usability, for a 'hybrid / video professional'].

Click to expand...

lawny13 said:

Peak freak said:

lawny13 said:

Peak freak said:

lawny13 said:

We humans are very short sighted.

Look at COVID, and climate change as simple examples of this.

When I first got into photography I went with the marketing hype. New cameras for better IQ etc etc. But over time I learned a few things that many on DPR seemed to have forgotten since we just pulled along with the tide of marketing and the new and shiny things.

We are all in some way constantly chasing that higher DR, higher IQ, etc etc, but seem to forget that it is EXACTLY want the manufacturers want us to do.

In the end though, some old truths are still correct right? Lenses, lighting, content, and creativity are the most important aspects of photography right?

That said. Canon is still new to MILC. I know they have the EF-M line, but seriously, they were never really serious about it, and FF brings a whole different level of engineering. So they are now on their second gen MILC. If you consider patents and tech, it isn't like they have the sony tech to use for their stuff. So this is all their own tech they are pushing out. If you look at it in this way, their first attempt with the RP and R, was already a step up from the A7, and I would argue the A7II. These R5 and R6 are both in my opinion a stop up from the A7III and A7RIV. Heck I would say that the R5 is a step up of the A7RIV. I simply don't completely get why people are so hard bent on comparing the R5 to the A7SIII, considering the MP difference between them. Here is a thought experiment for you all. If canon produced a camera like the R5, but with a 12MP sensor do you really think it wouldn't be able to perform on par with the A7SIII??? I think so. Or at the very least come close to it. But when looking at things in a sensible manner, the R5's competition is in fact the A7RIV. Not saying that people can't compare the R5 to the A7SIII, but there is a reason way sony made the latter a 12MP camera. It is meant to be video centric, not a stills camera. And generally not a hybrid camera either. If you do pro work where you need to deliver high Rez images... the A7SIII just won't cut it.

My main point though is that canon is IMHO tearing it up. They seem to be going full steam ahead with their camera developments, and I have no doubt that with FW updates the R5 and R6 will improve, and that the R5II and the R6II will likely greatly address these issues we are seeing now. If the R5 doesn't overheat with the atomos recorder mounted to it, it is an indication that it is the processor that is the cause of the overheating. The processor is canon's first gen. It is a massive leap over what they have had previously. Usually with processor development the next step is to improve efficiency and thermals. All you need to do is look at intel and AMD to know this is the common approach.

So... pick a brand. And keep in mind they do tend to leap frog each other. And focus on creating. It has always been the case and I don't see why it wouldn't be the case now. I am worried about nikon though.

BTW... I think there is a simple solution to canon's problem. Since so many people don't seem to care about bitrate, they should release a FW update that allows users to select an option for lower bit rate. Less bit rate generally means less data, and less processing, and thus less heat.

Sony has implemented these tricks to deal with their own limitations. The EVFs showing lower Rez, line skipping during shooting, lower bit rates, etc etc. All of this serves to speed up performance, improve battery life, and decrease heat generation. I commend canon for not wanting to "cut corners", but at times it would be good to give these options to the user to decide. For example. I might not mind an EVF doing line skipping while out doing BIF since it would likely greatly improve my battery life. Some people might not mind sony level bit rates, if they don't grade heavily, and if it means improving record times, and probably greatly decreases heat generation at the processor.

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Thanks, but I'm not trying to analyse the camera(s).

I have big question marks over how Canon hyped up the video features to attract market interest, only to find out there are quite significant restrictions.

I am well aware that photographers can argue 'nothing to see here', so I'm curious to hear from a few hybrid shooters who may have been interested in the R5. Did Canon pull a shifty, or is it all good?

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I get that. But people speculated that there would be over heating issues. And canon responded by giving an overview is those overheating limits in a forth coming manner.

And they did so before the camera was even shipping. Yes I think they over hyped it a bit. But at this point... who can claim that hey have been dubbed? Anyone buying this camera will be doing this eyes wide open unless they decided not to look at the technical specs before buying.

And I am not defending canon mind you. If I was really doing hybrid shooting I would really have to think twice before getting the R5.

8K? Sheesh, normal consumer would realistically be buying this camera for that. It is a technical feat sure, it that amount of data storage required for 20 minutes of 8k is 350 GB or so. That is insane.

If I were more into video, where I honestly think canon messed up is the 4K limitation. If it didn’t over heat as it did doing 4K HQ I think most people would let the 8k thing slide. If all you got was 5-10 min 8k no matter what, but could do 4K HQ anytime... cool. Same goes for 4k120. No one needs to shop that for 2 hrs. Just simple B roll.

So IMO. It isn’t that canon over hyped 8k. Good luck finding a manufacturer that won’t have the exact same issue... you can’t beat physics. But 4K line skipping? Meh... good thing am predominantly into stills

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"But people speculated that there would be over heating issues. And canon responded by giving an overview is those overheating limits in a forth coming manner."

Ha, written like a true Canon loyalist!

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Haha. I shot Sony for 6 years. Please tell me how this is different in the Sony camp? Or any other camp for that matter?

Why not go and read DPR’s on evaluation on the matter?
https://m.dpreview.com/articles/865...tm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

They literally say that considering what canon has to deal with in terms of thermals they did a good job. As in good luck to any manufacturer doing any better without built in fans.

Of course it doesn’t change the fact that canon could still not beat physics. Simple as that. People just need to inform themselves before purchasing anything and go in eyes wide open.

And let me guess. You are a sony user right? I mean all one has to do is look at your comment history and it is all YAY sony, and BOO canon. From the announcement of the camera you have been stating things like 90% of people will be served by 4k.. no need for 8k (which i do agree with). But yet you feel the need of starting a tread in the R forum to do what exactly? To continue to blow up the fact that 8k results in over heating (which is quite frankly unsurprising).

One of the annoying things when shooting sony and being on DPR is that any criticism of the sony system resulted in aggressive defence of the system and attacks on any critical comments. And the hypocrisy... sheesh. Remember when dual cards weren't needed? Now they are. Remember when the sony bodies overheated constantly, and yet it as no big deal? How long did it take sony to resolve these many issues? Back then I would say the same, as I am saying now about canon. I am equally and consistently critical yet practical of every brand. The point is to push them to improve, but not tear down and destroy. That is what leads to these fan wars that DPR seems to be rampant of these days.
And before replying to me, do read the DPR finding on the matter. They readily point out the common heating limitations from others brands as well, such as the A7III which also apparently has limitations shooting 4k.

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bodeswell said:

Peak freak said:

bodeswell said:

Peak freak said:

lawny13 said:

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/865...s-r5-and-r6-work-as-promised-thats-not-enough

Click to expand...

Again: [I have tried to make this very clear] It is not the actual performance of the cameras that I am concerned about, it is about how Canon promoted them, and how they function in reality.

All I can offer, is that if these cameras lived up to Canon's own hype, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Likewise DPR (and many others) wouldn't be either.

Click to expand...

How many times in how many threads are you going to say the same thing?

The cameras do exactly what Canon said they would.

Canon just ran into a determined counter-marketing campaign.

Click to expand...

You're right. I am getting tired of repeating myself.

And yes, Canon have run into a determined counter-marketing campaign.

You should probably ask yourself why that is. Why the R5 was the darling of the camera world just prior to launch, and internet enemy No. 1 just after.

Click to expand...

Canon wasn't the darling of the camera world. Many people do not like Canon. And it isn't public enemy number 1 now, except to the counter-marketers.

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Light Pilgrim said:

Have a look, I think it is accurate:

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Trek of Joy said:

Peak freak said:

Just to be clear, I think the R5 is shaping up to be a great (stills) camera that a lot of Canon photographers have been waiting for, including myself.

However, I am heavily critical (or confused) about their marketing and promotional campaign, prior to launch. I believe they targeted video content producers / professionals with desirable specifications and despite initial concerns about things like heat dissipation, continued to assure its ability for video use.

I think it was straight-up misleading, but many people have come to Canon's defense that their marketing was not misleading, or it unintended to be so. I'm going to guess this support is all from photographers.

So, I'm curious. What to video users think? Were Canon taking the p*ss, or is it all good in the hood?

[I'm not just talking about 8K. 5 minutes of 8K RAW is impressive. I'm talking about its overall usability, for a 'hybrid / video professional'].

Click to expand...

Canceled my pre-order because of a lot of uncertainty about the overheating (you're welcome if you order later than 5 minutes after orders opened at B&H!). Overheating is something I can live with and work around, been doing it for years with Sony. But to have record times cut when shooting stills, or just trying to frame a shot because of the heat generated - aka whenever the camera is on. Dealbreaker. For me. The long recovery times just make it too much of an unknown. I can't be outside and have to wait for two hours to get a few minutes of recording. I work under hot sun daily, I question whether some days it'll ever recover when in the field.

And the low-quality modes don't interest me at all, softer with aliasing and moire as we saw in the Undone video. That's a hard pass, not paying top dollar to not be able to use the camera as advertised - for me that's 60/120p. Don't really care about raw 8k other than an occasional postcard shot.

I'd really like to see the rumored Clog3 update too before buying, right now DR isn't very impressive. Dual recording would be nice too, seems silly that it can't. I'll sit it out and see if they decide to do anything. If not, I'll just stay in the Sony camp. I'm sure plenty will create great things with it, but I'll let things shake down a little more instead of buying and hoping certain issues are addressed. I think there will be plenty of used ones available in a few months too as DSLR shooters decide mirrorless isn't for them, people that discover its more than they want/need and video types that find it doesn't work out.

Cheers

Chris

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bodeswell said:

Peak freak said:

henrikbengtsson said:

Peak freak said:

henrikbengtsson said:

Peak freak said:

bodeswell said:

Peak freak said:

lawny13 said:

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/865...s-r5-and-r6-work-as-promised-thats-not-enough

Click to expand...

Again: [I have tried to make this very clear] It is not the actual performance of the cameras that I am concerned about, it is about how Canon promoted them, and how they function in reality.

All I can offer, is that if these cameras lived up to Canon's own hype, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Likewise DPR (and many others) wouldn't be either.

Click to expand...

How many times in how many threads are you going to say the same thing?

The cameras do exactly what Canon said they would.

Canon just ran into a determined counter-marketing campaign.

Click to expand...

You're right. I am getting tired of repeating myself.

And yes, Canon have run into a determined counter-marketing campaign.

You should probably ask yourself why that is. Why the R5 was the darling of the camera world just prior to launch, and internet enemy No. 1 just after

Click to expand...

It was and still is. The main target is going haywire as we speak. First shipment is out. Watch this camera sell like crazy.

Apparently Video shooters seem to be expecting and demanding pro-grade performance in a tiny still camera. Because that would be almost too good to be true, wouldn't it?

Marketing is marketing. Jeez...learn how to be skeptical, read reviews and try the tool before crying all over the internet.

Sorry but many sound like spoiled kids who didn't get what they wanted for Xmas..

Click to expand...

Thanks, but I did ask what hybrid / video users thought about the limitations, and you definitely sound of the stills persuasion.

If you are by some chance a hybrid shooter, I take it that you are good with it.

Click to expand...

Ahh, sorry about that. Yes, stills only. I didn't read the subject properly. My bad...but I still think the same about reasonable expectations.

Also, when rumours hit the internet before launch, excitement grows more than Canon can control. That said I don't think Canon expected any REAL video pros to think about the R5 as a main camera. A "Photoshop Elements" if you will...

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I'm a stills shooter too, so I understand where you are coming from, but I also understand why hybrid / video users would feel misled by Canon's marketing campaign.

Canon (eventually) had me sold (figuratively speaking) on the video specs, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing when numerous reviewers started examining the heat limitations. I initially dismissed them as scaremongering but now think Canon overplayed the ability of the R5 as a video 'tool'.

There are many examples, but here is a snippet: "With its ability to record in cinema industry-standard formats and codecs, the EOS R5 is an ideal lead camera for many productions but also, given its compatibility with cinema workflows, the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end production sets.”

Tell me that (and all those juicy specs) wouldn't have got your boogie on if you were video orientated! (No matter how cynical you are to marketing, when someone is 'selling' you what you want it to hear, it sounds great).

[Use of an external recorder will negate a lot of the limitations, but Canon did stress the point of 'in-camera' recording].

Click to expand...

What does your snippet say that isn't true? You choose to interpret it as if it said "will shoot full length motion pictures in 8K". Also, you sure are fixated on what you say "video orientated" people must think for someone who isn't a video shooter.

Click to expand...

davinci953 said:

Peak freak said:

Just to be clear, I think the R5 is shaping up to be a great (stills) camera that a lot of Canon photographers have been waiting for, including myself.

However, I am heavily critical (or confused) about their marketing and promotional campaign, prior to launch. I believe they targeted video content producers / professionals with desirable specifications and despite initial concerns about things like heat dissipation, continued to assure its ability for video use.

I think it was straight-up misleading, but many people have come to Canon's defense that their marketing was not misleading, or it unintended to be so. I'm going to guess this support is all from photographers.

So, I'm curious. What to video users think? Were Canon taking the p*ss, or is it all good in the hood?

[I'm not just talking about 8K. 5 minutes of 8K RAW is impressive. I'm talking about its overall usability, for a 'hybrid / video professional'].

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I don't know if this is posted elsewhere, but Gerald Undone has some good information about the video performance of both the R5 and R6.

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jonpais said:

bodeswell said:

jonpais said:

bodeswell said:

jonpais said:

bodeswell said:

Peak freak said:

henrikbengtsson said:

Peak freak said:

henrikbengtsson said:

Peak freak said:

bodeswell said:

Peak freak said:

lawny13 said:

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/865...s-r5-and-r6-work-as-promised-thats-not-enough

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Again: [I have tried to make this very clear] It is not the actual performance of the cameras that I am concerned about, it is about how Canon promoted them, and how they function in reality.

All I can offer, is that if these cameras lived up to Canon's own hype, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Likewise DPR (and many others) wouldn't be either.

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How many times in how many threads are you going to say the same thing?

The cameras do exactly what Canon said they would.

Canon just ran into a determined counter-marketing campaign.

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You're right. I am getting tired of repeating myself.

And yes, Canon have run into a determined counter-marketing campaign.

You should probably ask yourself why that is. Why the R5 was the darling of the camera world just prior to launch, and internet enemy No. 1 just after

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It was and still is. The main target is going haywire as we speak. First shipment is out. Watch this camera sell like crazy.

Apparently Video shooters seem to be expecting and demanding pro-grade performance in a tiny still camera. Because that would be almost too good to be true, wouldn't it?

Marketing is marketing. Jeez...learn how to be skeptical, read reviews and try the tool before crying all over the internet.

Sorry but many sound like spoiled kids who didn't get what they wanted for Xmas..

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Thanks, but I did ask what hybrid / video users thought about the limitations, and you definitely sound of the stills persuasion.

If you are by some chance a hybrid shooter, I take it that you are good with it.

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Ahh, sorry about that. Yes, stills only. I didn't read the subject properly. My bad...but I still think the same about reasonable expectations.

Also, when rumours hit the internet before launch, excitement grows more than Canon can control. That said I don't think Canon expected any REAL video pros to think about the R5 as a main camera. A "Photoshop Elements" if you will...

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Thanks for the reply. I'm a stills shooter too, so I understand where you are coming from, but I also understand why hybrid / video users would feel misled by Canon's marketing campaign.

Canon (eventually) had me sold (figuratively speaking) on the video specs, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing when numerous reviewers started examining the heat limitations. I initially dismissed them as scaremongering but now think Canon overplayed the ability of the R5 as a video 'tool'.

There are many examples, but here is a snippet: "With its ability to record in cinema industry-standard formats and codecs, the EOS R5 is an ideal lead camera for many productions but also, given its compatibility with cinema workflows, the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end production sets.”

Tell me that (and all those juicy specs) wouldn't have got your boogie on if you were video orientated! (No matter how cynical you are to marketing, when someone is 'selling' you what you want it to hear, it sounds great).

[Use of an external recorder will negate a lot of the limitations, but Canon did stress the point of 'in-camera' recording].

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What does your snippet say that isn't true? You choose to interpret it as if it said "will shoot full length motion pictures in 8K". Also, you sure are fixated on what you say "video orientated" people must think for someone who isn't a video shooter.

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I don’t know why you need to interpret anything. It’s in the King’s English. But I’ll give it a shot!

“the EOS R5 [Canon mirrorless camera] is an ideal [most suitable for a task] lead camera [the primary camera on a set] for many productions but also, given its compatibility with cinema workflows, the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end [high quality, highly paid] production sets [includes film and TV production, television commercials, web commercials, corporate videos, product videos, marketing videos, event videos, wedding video.] ”

ILCs are already currently being used for making corporate marketing videos, product videos, event videos and wedding videos, but seldom as lead cameras for TV or movies (but sometimes used for very low budget independent films).

The requirements for a camera used in a high quality, high paid shoot are many, but at minimum, I think we can agree that two important factors are (1) great image quality and (2) reliability.

Parker Walbeck’s YT channel shows how to make polished videos using ILCs: everything ranging from real estate, fitness videos and interviews, to weddings and car ads, for paying clients. He shoots with lots of cameras but I notice he really likes his 1D X Mark III. Because he is extremely talented at what he does, I am really looking forward to learning what he thinks of the R5.

Let’s set aside Hollywood. No jumping out of buildings, flying helicopters, blowing things up, 115 degree Fahrenheit desert battles... How would the R5 perform just perched comfortably on a tripod to shoot a two-minute re-enactment of a movie scene? Just two men and a room - no guns, no knives, no explosives... Armando Ferriera, Canon devotee, filmmaker and self-professed gear nerd, eager to find out, put the R5 through its paces, shooting several real world production tests (with crew, gaffers, focus puller, actors, makeup artists, fancy cinema lens, rented film set, etc...) with the R5. We already know the R5 shoots lovely 8K and 4K HQ. All the thing is required to do is to expose the sensor! Can it do it?

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That's actually a pretty good review. Yes, he says there are some limitations, but he clearly really likes the camera anyway. Also, he says he thinks Canon may just be being very conservative with their overheating warnings since the camera, battery, card are never hot. He speculates that Canon will be able to enhance the 8K capabilities of the camera in fairly simple ways. And the scenes he shot look pretty good to me. There is also this by the same film maker: https://fstoppers.com/gear/testing-canon-r5-8k-raw-cinematic-setting-502388

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Yep, if it weren’t for YT compression, they’d look like Netflix. hehe

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See how easy it is to move the goalposts? First cite a YT video, then comment on YT compression.

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No idea what you're talking about.

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jonpais said:

jonpais said:

I recommend both videos because Ferreira is pretty objective.

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--
https://daejeonchronicles.com

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Peak freak said:

• Peak freak wrote:

Light Pilgrim said:

Have a look, I think it is accurate:

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Thankyou for the link. If nothing else, it reinforces that I am not alone in this.

Some people instantly jump to the conclusion that it is simply Canon bashing, but I am a long time user that really likes the look of both the R5&6, and are particularly impressed by how the stills performance of the R5 is shaping up.

I am just annoyed that Canon could have pretty much avoided any criticism if only they had been a bit more upfront about the limitations

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Peak freak said:

Edit: I've deleted a bit about Matti Haapoja's early vid. He's just released a review, I'll have to have a look sometime.

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bodeswell said:

bodeswell said:

• Peak freak wrote:

Light Pilgrim said:

Have a look, I think it is accurate:

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Thankyou for the link. If nothing else, it reinforces that I am not alone in this.

Some people instantly jump to the conclusion that it is simply Canon bashing, but I am a long time user that really likes the look of both the R5&6, and are particularly impressed by how the stills performance of the R5 is shaping up.

I am just annoyed that Canon could have pretty much avoided any criticism if only they had been a bit more upfront about the limitations

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Maybe they should have been a little more prescient, but I take issue with the implication that they prevaricated.

bodeswell said:

Edit: I've deleted a bit about Matti Haapoja's early vid. He's just released a review, I'll have to have a look sometime.

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Peak freak said:

bodeswell said:

Peak freak said:

• Peak freak wrote:

Light Pilgrim said:

Have a look, I think it is accurate:

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Thankyou for the link. If nothing else, it reinforces that I am not alone in this.

Some people instantly jump to the conclusion that it is simply Canon bashing, but I am a long time user that really likes the look of both the R5&6, and are particularly impressed by how the stills performance of the R5 is shaping up.

I am just annoyed that Canon could have pretty much avoided any criticism if only they had been a bit more upfront about the limitations

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Maybe they should have been a little more prescient, but I take issue with the implication that they prevaricated.

Peak freak said:

Edit: I've deleted a bit about Matti Haapoja's early vid. He's just released a review, I'll have to have a look sometime.

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Good word, I had to look it up!

Here is the thing, there was an article somewhere, from Canon, explaining why they made the choices they did regarding heat dissipation - fan, size, weather sealing etc.

They have known it would be an issue from inception. We have known for about a month. The R5 is simply not as 'usable' as some people thought it would be. We can argue why that is, but regardless, it is where we are at.

Seriously, anyone who thinks Canon omitting the time limits when they confirmed the video specs was an oversight, is fooling themselves.

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1. The GH4
2. The GH5S
3. The latest addition is the S1H.

1. 30 minute time limits.
2. Camera overheating.

JayPhoto1 said:

I think you really want the opinion of truly hybrid shooters — 50/50 guys and gals. Without a doubt pure stills shooters will agree this is a phenomenal camera and pure video shoots will say it’s a failure. I don’t have my camera yet but will next week. The true test is a mixture of still shooting with the occasional video capture. If the camera can work in that environment, I think canon can claim some success. It’s certainly a win in the stills category but there must be some redeemable value in the video capabilities— especially since Canon made the blunder and market this as an exceptional video camera with 8k capabilities. Just my opinion.

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