tbcass
Forum Pro
Maybe in your corporate world. In mine before I retired there were no Macs. Whenever anyone makes blanket statements they are bound to be wrong.
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Leica vs. Sony (in theory)
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Pealut Nutter
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In tech, even a year is a lifetime. Your corporate world is dead and gone.
Way back in 2012, there were already changes afoot:
By 2015, Info World and other publications were reporting seismic shifts towards macs in the enterprise domain. A case in point :
To those of us currently in the corporate world, this is no surprise. We've long known a host of Mac benefits, as the article above enumerates:
These facts comport with Stevo's corporate world, not your antiquated one, if it ever existed.
Blows all that talk of "macs are overpriced" out of the water.
AcquiredTaste
Veteran Member
Corporations are not immune to marketing, either.In tech, even a year is a lifetime. Your corporate world is dead and gone.
Way back in 2012, there were already changes afoot:
By 2015, Info World and other publications were reporting seismic shifts towards macs in the enterprise domain. A case in point :
To those of us currently in the corporate world, this is no surprise. We've long known a host of Mac benefits, as the article above enumerates:
These facts comport with Stevo's corporate world, not your antiquated one, if it ever existed.
Blows all that talk of "macs are overpriced" out of the water.
Macs are, and have always been, overpriced.
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Any opinions I express are my own and do not represent DPReview. I'm just a regular poster unless explicitly stated otherwise in the body of the post.
500px
Pealut Nutter
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There is a BIG difference. I use macs and PCs several times a day in my study:
See that stack of 4 machines: That's two MS Surface devices, one Macbook Pro, and one iPad Pro.
See that rig to the right?
Oh, and more more thing: if you bring your "I'm a retired engineer" argument into this discussion, I'll bring my "I have 3 degrees" one into it too.
You don't get to determine when and how much any member -- new or old -- ought to post, so kindly dispense with the off-topic musings.
the last tech support job that i had was for a public company with around 13,000 employees, it was standardized entirely on the pc platform... the helpdesk database didn't have any mac info in it.
there was probably a tiny graphics department somewhere churning out logos and brochures, but we never heard from 'em, i don't know what they were using.
AcquiredTaste
Veteran Member
He's right, there's no difference.
Neither of which matters much, but number of degrees is really not important. Degrees are, unfortunately, not difficult to acquire.
Let's cut down the personal sniping, shall we?
tbcass
Forum Pro
Hate to tell you but I stay in touch with my old unretired work mates. Still 100% Windows.
Mine too. Not sure what Macs you spent $5000 on, but that's not the typical spend on a Mac equivalent to a corporate desktop or laptop.
I've have had two tours of this with two different companies. The 90's Macs were a disaster and I wouldn't have recommended that any company standardize on any of them.
But our current ones for the past 10 years have out paced our PCs for reliability without question.
Unfortunately, that's what happens when you mention specifics ... people get bogged down in the details and assumptions. (For instance, I find rangefinders, generally, to be a novelty experience, and Leica - at least the M6 & 50mm lens I tried - to be a highly overrated experience).
Yes, getting away from the specifics and assumptions, it's an interesting generic topic. I happen to agree with you, but think it's dependent on the photographer. A pro is probably going to benefit more from tools that get the job done quickly and efficiently, even if they're not so enjoyable (and that speed and efficiency, I would think, is not just going to pay off immediately, but will snowball). Some enthusiasts are highly results-oriented and the shooting experience is secondary.
But for some of us, a no-fun camera makes us less likely to go out with a camera; if we do, less likely to experiment and take control of settings ... while an enjoyable camera can make us want to use it more. At least until the novelty wears off
I've had both experiences - a fun camera that's a joy to use every time as well as a clunker that sucks the joy out of photography and leads me to shortcuts just to avoid the unpleasant bits.
- Dennis
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Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
Well, that was certainly one of my points but it was meant to refute the assertion that Macs are for creatives and PCs are for business folks (in so many words).In tech, even a year is a lifetime. Your corporate world is dead and gone.
Way back in 2012, there were already changes afoot:
By 2015, Info World and other publications were reporting seismic shifts towards macs in the enterprise domain. A case in point :
To those of us currently in the corporate world, this is no surprise. We've long known a host of Mac benefits, as the article above enumerates:
These facts comport with Stevo's corporate world, not your antiquated one, if it ever existed.
Blows all that talk of "macs are overpriced" out of the water.
It's not the case for us. A large portion of my company is engaged in media creation for live and recorded broadcast. The fact that our creatives don't have more Macs than PCs kind of kills the overall idea that was put forth. No one ever says, "I'm more creative on a Mac". Personally, I use a Mac because I like using it and because it's significantly more reliable than any Windows laptop I've owned. That's more of a business appeal than anything.
That was meant to be read the same way I posted in the past that what I miss about the good old days are that :
products never broke down
and
repair shops
forceofnature
Leading Member
The Sony is indeed more advanced however its too easy to just take the shot vs the Leica. I enjoy the process of manual focus and settings. It might annoy my wife that it takes a moment longer but I don't care.
I too can take my time to annoy my wife but often it takes no time at all.
forceofnature
Leading Member
Interesting statement I could not make since I had to have my MacBook pro replaced twice due to motherboard failures.
forceofnature
Leading Member
Ah yes, DUH moment for me.
I was a PC and Mac support guy in that era. OS8-9-X. People would brag that their Macs never crashed, but when I came to repair their computers, it turned out that "Well, it only crashes a couple of times a day" or "I have to restart it a couple of times a day." Well, that isn't not crashing.
Also, they were using a terrible Mac support guy who WAY overcharged us. Calls went down 75% when I took over support, but the Macs were never trouble-free.
Here's my Why Windows is Better (or At Least Better Engineered) argument:
Apple controls all the hardware, OS software, firmware and (critically) drivers. There is very little outside the Apple ecosystem. Macs should never crash and never need need updates. But they do and they do.
Microsoft has NO control over what hardware Windows will run on or how the drivers are written (and drivers used to be 90% of problems). Everything is outside the Microsoft ecosystem. It's a miracle Windows boots at all, let alone runs so well.
Also, the obsolescence of Macs: I have a Macbook that became a paperweight after 10 years because Apple decided I couldn't update to the latest OS, and software I needed didn't support the old OS.*
My desktop PC is about the same age. I can install the latest version of Windows 10 on it without problems. (As it happens I still use Win7 and it's rock-solid.) Windows may cut support but they don't arbitrarily decide my PC is too old and I need to buy a new one. The motherboard/chip/RAM combo has outlived two primary HDDs.
For a while I ran Windows (desktop). Mac (couch laptop). BunsenLabs Linux (travel laptop). Mac was the most troublesome/crash-prone, Windows a VERY distant second, then Linux. I've since simplified my life, Windows on everything and one PC that dual-boots Linux.
Run good antivirus software, don't open questionable attachments, don't surf porn (or at least be smart if you do it), shut down properly, and keep the HDD defragmented, and your PC will run like a top for years.
To be fair, though, I do see a lot of PCs that haven't been kept up properly (ie my rules above) and run like crap. That doesn't seem to happen as often with Macs -- of course Mac people are convinced they need a new computer every 2-3 years, so maybe if they wait long enough...
Yes, Macs did get much better when they abandoned their crappy home-grown operating system and switched to Unix. All they needed was a 30-year-old operating system to fix many of their problems.
As long as Apple fans don't get wind of the fact that they can get the same virus-software-free experience for 1/3 the price with Linux, Apple will be fine. Good thing the phones and watches are selling well.
* This was a MacBook 2008. I decided "Screw Apple, they can't tell me what to do" and installed Linux. It ran great (MUCH more reliable than with OSX) until the touchpad died. One of these days I'll replace it.
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I actually did find that mouse movement was smoother with Macs than Windows, though that seemed to have changed a bit when they went to Intel processors. Linux has the same better behavior. So, yes, advantage Mac... but personally I'm not willing to pay 3x as much for a computer for smoother scrolling. (And with Linux I don't have to.)
Aaron
I knew that wasn’t going to be a long term system when I had five macs that were needing reboot 5 times a day and Apple told me, “you should be refreshing (wiping and re installing) your OS every 90 days.”
Yes, this happens. But in reality, what windows does is run very painfully slow if you try to stretch an old processor too far. And you have similar issues with the software apps on old machines. We are in a golden era for processors in that they haven’t had a major change lately, so things are lasting longer.
thats interesting because my wife has my 10 year old MacBook. No issues installing the latest. I’m sure it’s time isn’t much longer, but processor is same as my 3 year old one.
Yep.Yes, Macs did get much better when they abandoned their crappy home-grown operating system and switched to Unix. All they needed was a 30-year-old operating system to fix many of their problems.
and how would that work? You can hardly get the general public to understand Mac or widows OS. You think they’ll enjoy a professional shell that does nothing automaticallly and requires knowledge of I/O and driver confirms to connect anything?
My son runs Linux on his Mac because he can. He writes code for a big company and doesn’t need the Mac OS for anything.
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