Leica vs. Sony (in theory)

I come from the graphics side of the ad world and the Apple v PC debate, which is now mostly played out, is a perfect example. For more than a decade the PC provided better performance and lower cost (and the same software). But, walk through any creative dpt today and you will see there is no longer a debate. Apple's focus on interface and commitment to the creative process won the day. They priced higher, ran slower but, in the mind of the creatives, empowered a better result.
No. Marketing is powerful, and especially powerful in fields where you're selling 'cool.' Starbucks coffee isn't special, but they can command a premium because they've convinced others that it is. Apple is the same way. It has almost nothing at all to do with the product, certainly not interface or 'commitment to the creative process' and everything to do with the marketing.
We’ve found that they “just work” and that those in our company with Macs nearly never need desktop support And cost less in time.
My extensive experience tells me that if you spend equal money on a PC, not only will it be faster, but it will 'just work,' too. People tend to compare $5000 Macs to $1500 PCs.
 
The good thing about Apple products is that they never brake down.

On top of that , there are Apple Service Centres all over the place.

( how do they stay in business?)
 
The good thing about Apple products is that they never brake down.
That's funny. When I did IT, I had far more problems with our Macs than our PCs.
 
I come from the graphics side of the ad world and the Apple v PC debate, which is now mostly played out, is a perfect example. For more than a decade the PC provided better performance and lower cost (and the same software). But, walk through any creative dpt today and you will see there is no longer a debate. Apple's focus on interface and commitment to the creative process won the day. They priced higher, ran slower but, in the mind of the creatives, empowered a better result.
No. Marketing is powerful, and especially powerful in fields where you're selling 'cool.' Starbucks coffee isn't special, but they can command a premium because they've convinced others that it is. Apple is the same way. It has almost nothing at all to do with the product, certainly not interface or 'commitment to the creative process' and everything to do with the marketing.
We’ve found that they “just work” and that those in our company with Macs nearly never need desktop support And cost less in time.
My extensive experience tells me that if you spend equal money on a PC, not only will it be faster, but it will 'just work,' too. People tend to compare $5000 Macs to $1500 PCs.
Turns out not to be the case in the corporate world. Macbooks and PCs are about $500 apart at most but usually only $250. And no, we spend about $2000 on the average Mac or PC.
 
The good thing about Apple products is that they never brake down.
That's funny. When I did IT, I had far more problems with our Macs than our PCs.
It was true in the 90s and my other company that was 100% Mac went 100% PC overnight because of constant problems. Different game now.
 
The good thing about Apple products is that they never brake down.
That's funny. When I did IT, I had far more problems with our Macs than our PCs.
It was true in the 90s and my other company that was 100% Mac went 100% PC overnight because of constant problems. Different game now.
Yep. Top result in Google as of this minute:



6885cecaae9a4de6a2105e3760fce44f.jpg.png
 
The good thing about Apple products is that they never brake down.
That's funny. When I did IT, I had far more problems with our Macs than our PCs.
It was true in the 90s and my other company that was 100% Mac went 100% PC overnight because of constant problems. Different game now.
Yep. Top result in Google as of this minute:

6885cecaae9a4de6a2105e3760fce44f.jpg.png
My point was that we can’t / don’t have a creative drive for Macs in my company, just reliability and even with that, most folks won’t choose them. Our best and most creative work is done by people on both PCs and Macs.
 
I'm enjoying the debate, I'm surprised that:

• People are debating as to whether Sony resoundingly wins the spec/performance sheet
you mean the verge article? apple marketing did that, they tried to compare a pro sony oled monitor with an overpriced apple lcd.

it's covered in the link.
• People think there is a debate between apple and pc in the creative space. Outside of render intensive tasks (eg 3d, etc) Apple dominates the creative space. (overall market share? Of course PC, they dominate the biz space)
creatives are part of the biz space.

if creatives only wanted mac, why does adobe, blackmagic, etc. run on both platforms?

because pc hardware is cheaper and more powerful.

do you know what hackintosh is? it happened because apple hardware has always been absurdly overpriced.
Apple ARM chips will be so fast, they'll run circles around PC.
that is at least two years away, so it's just speculation, as are any guesses about how much it'll cost... the fact that it'll only be 10% of the desktop market indicates high pricing due to low volume, tho, so mac owners will be feel right at home ;-)

you probably weren't around in 2005 or so, when apple switched from proprietary powerpc hardware to intel... in other words, they've tried with their own hardware before, and it failed.

desktop macs are nothing more than pcs with mac os, aka just a hackintosh sold under the apple label, with suckers still paying ridiculous prices for it.
Milcman, take a step back and ask yourself why people go to such lengths to build hackintoshes. It's because of just how good mac software is.

My mac scrolls so smoothly. It's buttery smooth. Not so with Windows, no matter how much hardware you throw at it.

That should, in large measure, answer your question about why creatives prefer macs, despite the pcs supposedly having faster hardware.

Remember, it's not how much hardware you have, it's what you do with it that matters more.

Same with Leicas. User experience, not who has the biggest hardware is the trump card.

Earlier, i used the analogy of fine vs cheap wine. If all you're doing is spec-sheet reading, you could say "well, the cheap wine has just as many calories, water etc. as the more expensive wine," so why go with the better one.
That's what iPhone does around Android right now.
see above.
Anyway, he didn't say creatives only use mac.
you are the only person claiming that.
The argument is whether, on average, a creative person who uses a PC would become more creative using a Mac.
no, his exact words were "overall market share" and "Apple dominates the creative space"

you are going o/t, but that's o.k. because it's a silly thread anyway :-)
I believe the answer would be "yes."
given that creative apps run on both platforms, and pcs are generally faster, i don't see any logic to that claim.
 
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Totally agree. As a Fuji shooter, I aspire toward Leica. Dream camera. Sony no thanks. Just pass on the AF to the other brands.
 
Sony is not better than Leica in every category - that's hogwash

I am opposed to the very premise of this thread
To be fair, he did say "pretty much every category", which is accurate.
How to interpret it? A car may advantage another in nearly every aspect except that it may have only three tires.

Even pure ergonomics matters and can be a crucial factor.
 
I thought BMWs were overrated until by pure chance I had to drive one for 45 miles. My bias of maybe 25 years dissipated in 30 minutes like ice in a volcano
 
I recently read a comment on a Leica review, to summarize, it stated that the Leica won't make you a better photographer, but you'll enjoy it more.

Thought about this for a moment. It's not a true statement. If a camera creates an environment that you enjoy more, is more intuitive, engaging, etc. it will make you a better photographer.

I come from the graphics side of the ad world and the Apple v PC debate, which is now mostly played out, is a perfect example.
i don't see much similarity between camera vs. computers, but if you want to talk about it...
For more than a decade the PC provided better performance and lower cost (and the same software).
that is still true in 2020, windows has nearly 80% of the desktop market share:

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide

apple products are ridiculously overpriced, that hasn't changed at all.
But, walk through any creative dpt today and you will see there is no longer a debate. Apple's focus on interface and commitment to the creative process won the day. They priced higher, ran slower but, in the mind of the creatives, empowered a better result.
apple has a history of abandoning it's creative tools, for example where is quicktime today.

when apple released fcp x back in 2011, they changed the interface and screwed up editing basics like no multi-cam editing, can't assign audio tracks for export, can't import projects from fcp 7 into fcp x, etc... it was not a happy time for creatives, many left apple and didn't go back.

to sum it up, market data proves that the vast majority of camera owners don't want leica, just like the vast majority of desktop computer users don't want to buy overpriced apple computers.
Here we go with the "Company X has history of..."

Everyone knows what Sony has a history of. Product graveyard littered with a host of Sony stuff.

Apple makes the only 6K monitor on the market, with the best gamut, reflection control, and brightness in the class. Meanwhile, the typical PC makers continue to make their middling screens, with rubbish glossy or antiglare coatings that pale in comparison.
Typical PC maker doesn’t make their own screens, and the company that makes this “miraculous” stuff is the same that makes the other stuff. Purgatory is maybe just most realizing how much nonsense we lived by.
 
The good thing about Apple products is that they never brake down.

On top of that , there are Apple Service Centres all over the place.

( how do they stay in business?)
Dell has next business day on site. The Apple maglev charger breaks like nothing, so do many parts break down. There are more Applegate and class action suits than any other company. By the way, I enjoy my Mac and my PC. The Mac has better usability and integration, although has one of the worst monitors in the world (2017 book air), so bad I don’t know how things really look like. But I use it for other stuff.
 
The good thing about Apple products is that they never brake down.

On top of that , there are Apple Service Centres all over the place.

( how do they stay in business?)
Dell has next business day on site.
We just got AppleCare enterprise and it provides onsite same day replacement and doesn't cost more than standard AppleCare.
The Apple maglev charger breaks like nothing
That's old news. Everyone is USB C now including Apple. But Magsafe was a great idea and works well unless you wind the crap out of your charger cable.
, so do many parts break down. There are more Applegate and class action suits than any other company.
Let's see that comparison.
By the way, I enjoy my Mac and my PC. The Mac has better usability and integration, although has one of the worst monitors in the world (2017 book air), so bad I don’t know how things really look like. But I use it for other stuff.
 
My mac scrolls so smoothly. It's buttery smooth. Not so with Windows, no matter how much hardware you throw at it.
That's not true. I've used both and there's no difference.
That should, in large measure, answer your question about why creatives prefer macs, despite the pcs supposedly having faster hardware.
It's because it's what their used to, not because they're better. Why do Engineers use PCs almost exclusively (which is a fact BTW) for CAD work, both 3D and 2D? I
Remember, it's not how much hardware you have, it's what you do with it that matters more.

Same with Leicas. User experience, not who has the biggest hardware is the trump card.

Earlier, i used the analogy of fine vs cheap wine. If all you're doing is spec-sheet reading, you could say "well, the cheap wine has just as many calories, water etc. as the more expensive wine," so why go with the better one.
You tend to give off an air of superiority because you consider yourself some kind of connoisseur that us peons can't appreciate. Well I'm a retired engineer and that attitude is something I frown upon.

Bad analogy. Wine is 100% about the subjective experience. Computers are 95% about practicality. I can see where we differ. I am 100% about getting the job done and the so called user experience doesn't matter as long as the hardware doesn't get in the way. My Win 10 computers (I own 3 of them) don't get in the way. They simply work.

Wait a minute. You just joined 5 days ago. That explains it. Which previously banned member are you? How many aliases have you gone through?

--
Tom
 
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That should, in large measure, answer your question about why creatives prefer macs, despite the pcs supposedly having faster hardware.

Remember, it's not how much hardware you have, it's what you do with it that matters more.

Same with Leicas. User experience, not who has the biggest hardware is the trump card.
You just revealed your true agenda here. What you previously posted was this:

Let's not do Apple a disservice by comparing Leica to it.

Leica is like that overpriced junk watches people get that will soon be obsolete -- you know, the Omegas and like -- through whose heart Apple Watch drove a stake.

Like those watch brands, I can't think of any innovations Leica has made in the last 50 years. It is truly a brand stuck in the 20th century.


You have revealed your true agenda here, to stir up trouble, not have a reasonable discussion. That also puts a knife in your connoisseur argument, comparing an overpriced electronic watch with a finely engineered, precision made mechanical watch.
 
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The good thing about Apple products is that they never brake down.
That's funny. When I did IT, I had far more problems with our Macs than our PCs.
It was true in the 90s and my other company that was 100% Mac went 100% PC overnight because of constant problems. Different game now.
From my experience Windows PCs are far more reliable now than they were 15-20 years ago.
 
I come from the graphics side of the ad world and the Apple v PC debate, which is now mostly played out, is a perfect example. For more than a decade the PC provided better performance and lower cost (and the same software). But, walk through any creative dpt today and you will see there is no longer a debate. Apple's focus on interface and commitment to the creative process won the day. They priced higher, ran slower but, in the mind of the creatives, empowered a better result.
No. Marketing is powerful, and especially powerful in fields where you're selling 'cool.' Starbucks coffee isn't special, but they can command a premium because they've convinced others that it is. Apple is the same way. It has almost nothing at all to do with the product, certainly not interface or 'commitment to the creative process' and everything to do with the marketing.
We’ve found that they “just work” and that those in our company with Macs nearly never need desktop support And cost less in time.
My extensive experience tells me that if you spend equal money on a PC, not only will it be faster, but it will 'just work,' too. People tend to compare $5000 Macs to $1500 PCs.
Turns out not to be the case in the corporate world. Macbooks and PCs are about $500 apart at most but usually only $250. And no, we spend about $2000 on the average Mac or PC.
It was in my corporate world.
 

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