Pentax sticking with DSLR's in future cameras

Maybe a Pentax 645 100z DSLR in the works? Maybe Pentax becomes the Leica of hard core SLR lovers?

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/pentax-doubles-down-on-dslrs-there-is-simply-no-substitute

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/brand/pentax/vision/

This is probably not a stupid decision. Pentax has been struggling to create a niche for themselves. With everyone moving to ML, the opportunity to differentiate themselves in the market place has been handed to them on a silver platter.

They know they don't have the cash to go toe to toe with the big boys when it comes to performance, so they decided they will serve a niche market and provide the types of cameras that nobody else does. This may breathe a few years of life into them.

Macro guy said:

This is probably not a stupid decision. Pentax has been struggling to create a niche for themselves. With everyone moving to ML, the opportunity to differentiate themselves in the market place has been handed to them on a silver platter.

They know they don't have the cash to go toe to toe with the big boys when it comes to performance, so they decided they will serve a niche market and provide the types of cameras that nobody else does. This may breathe a few years of life into them.

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I think there is room for this type of niche in the market as well.

Hi,

Maybe they will not only up the resolution of the 645z, but increase the physical imager size along with it. Yet another way to make the DSLR design differentiate Pentax.

Stan

Stan Disbrow said:

Hi,

Maybe they will not only up the resolution of the 645z, but increase the physical imager size along with it. Yet another way to make the DSLR design differentiate Pentax.

Stan

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Yeah Sony makes 645 for Phase and Hasselblad, it would certainly cost a lot.

Maybe end up with something like the following for differentiation.

Fuji - high tech, GF glass

Pentax - SLR/OVF, multi format, Lots of good glass at good prices

Hasselblad - Leaf shutter lenses, digital back for system V compatibility

rbf said:

Stan Disbrow said:

Hi,

Maybe they will not only up the resolution of the 645z, but increase the physical imager size along with it. Yet another way to make the DSLR design differentiate Pentax.

Stan

Click to expand...

Yeah Sony makes 645 for Phase and Hasselblad, it would certainly cost a lot.

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It would, but not as much as P1/Hassy prices would make us think. Remember how Pentax made digital MF affordable the first time round with the 645D.

rbf said:

Maybe end up with something like the following for differentiation.

Fuji - high tech, GF glass

Pentax - SLR/OVF, multi format, Lots of good glass at good prices

Click to expand...

The used market is plenty of good glass at good price. The new lenses have not been exactly cheap (but not more expensive than the competitors either).

rbf said:

Hasselblad - Leaf shutter lenses, digital back for system V compatibility

Click to expand...

chessov said:

rbf said:

Stan Disbrow said:

Hi,

Maybe they will not only up the resolution of the 645z, but increase the physical imager size along with it. Yet another way to make the DSLR design differentiate Pentax.

Stan

Click to expand...

Yeah Sony makes 645 for Phase and Hasselblad, it would certainly cost a lot.

Click to expand...

It would, but not as much as P1/Hassy prices would make us think. Remember how Pentax made digital MF affordable the first time round with the 645D.

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That's true and with what you can get a 645z for and prices you can get their glass at they are currently the affordable way to get in. I bought some of their glass to fill out my lens lineup after I first got my GFX and was happy with it and got some great images.

Member said:

Member said:

Maybe end up with something like the following for differentiation.

Fuji - high tech, GF glass

Pentax - SLR/OVF, multi format, Lots of good glass at good prices

Click to expand...

The used market is plenty of good glass at good price. The new lenses have not been exactly cheap (but not more expensive than the competitors either).

Click to expand...

No, new they are around the same price as GF glass they are high quality. Used you're getting practically for free on a lot of lenses. A couple are still really high though at the wide end.

Member said:

Member said:

Hasselblad - Leaf shutter lenses, digital back for system V compatibility

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I just ordered a 645Z and the 45-85 4.5 tonight and I'll probably pick up the 80-160 4.5 also.

I've been looking at medium format for a while now, always liked the Pentax from my years I used to shoot them (K3,K1) before switching to Canon.

Looked at the Fuji's of course I liked the 50S, I prefer the larger bodies. They are great and have more of a future probably but I went with the one I've wanted for years that has finally come down to the price point I was comfortable with.

I had this money earmarked for a new Canon body but the R5 just didn't excite me, I'm sure it will be great just not for me.

Wildlife is my passion but I really want to try other forms of photography, I'm no professional just really enjoy it and I'm always looking to learn more and get better.

KiloHotelphoto said:

I just ordered a 645Z and the 45-85 4.5 tonight and I'll probably pick up the 80-160 4.5 also.

I've been looking at medium format for a while now, always liked the Pentax from my years I used to shoot them (K3,K1) before switching to Canon.

Looked at the Fuji's of course I liked the 50S, I prefer the larger bodies. They are great and have more of a future probably but I went with the one I've wanted for years that has finally come down to the price point I was comfortable with.

I had this money earmarked for a new Canon body but the R5 just didn't excite me, I'm sure it will be great just not for me.

Wildlife is my passion but I really want to try other forms of photography, I'm no professional just really enjoy it and I'm always looking to learn more and get better.

Click to expand...

I have the 80-160/4.5 150-300/5.6 and 120/4 macro. I got the zooms after getting my 50R and like them although I haven't got around to using the macro much yet. I have to fix that.

BTW, I do know of a photographer that was doing wildlife (big cats) with a GFX and the big Pentax 645 600mm.

[No message]

rbf said:

KiloHotelphoto said:

I just ordered a 645Z and the 45-85 4.5 tonight and I'll probably pick up the 80-160 4.5 also.

I've been looking at medium format for a while now, always liked the Pentax from my years I used to shoot them (K3,K1) before switching to Canon.

Looked at the Fuji's of course I liked the 50S, I prefer the larger bodies. They are great and have more of a future probably but I went with the one I've wanted for years that has finally come down to the price point I was comfortable with.

I had this money earmarked for a new Canon body but the R5 just didn't excite me, I'm sure it will be great just not for me.

Wildlife is my passion but I really want to try other forms of photography, I'm no professional just really enjoy it and I'm always looking to learn more and get better.

Click to expand...

I have the 80-160/4.5 150-300/5.6 and 120/4 macro. I got the zooms after getting my 50R and like them although I haven't got around to using the macro much yet. I have to fix that.

BTW, I do know of a photographer that was doing wildlife (big cats) with a GFX and the big Pentax 645 600mm.

Click to expand...

I have seen a few people who do or have done wildlife with medium format and have produced great images, but they are so good they could produce great shots with a old disposable camera also.

I will probably pick up the 400mm 5.6 at some point, they are not that expensive and give it a shot with larger slower mammals, my next trip to the Tetons and Yellowstone. The 645Z will defiantly not be replacing my Canon gear for wildlife.

I've also been looking at the 150mm 2.8 for the 645, that looks like a nice lens, I'll be keeping a eye out for a good deal on one of those also I think.

Stan Disbrow said:

Hi,

Maybe they will not only up the resolution of the 645z

Click to expand...

My thought is Pentax doesn't have a choice but to increase the resolution if they want to be remotely competitive with a 44x33mm sensor. Either they have to move to 100mp or more, or surprise everyone with a reasonable alternative to increasing pixels... which would be increasing sensor real estate and keeping 50mp with a 54x40mm 'ish sensor (or larger).

I'd be gobsmacked if Pentax debuted a 6x7 full frame, 50mp equipped camera and a set of lenses.

Stan Disbrow said:

but increase the physical imager size along with it. Yet another way to make the DSLR design differentiate Pentax.

Click to expand...

Increasing the sensor size and pixel count at a palatable price would make a lot of ears wiggle, even with keeping the flappy mirror.

Such is one reason why I'm disappointed with Pentax fielding "cropped" lens(es) which I generally do not buy. The 28-45 f/4.5 for example- A wonderful bread-and-butter lens initially costing around $5k USD... but is limited if you were to put it on a 645 film body, and that to me is nuts. So basically Pentax is saying through their actions, if you purchased a Pentax 'full frame', 100mp sensor'd 645, you can't fully use your $5k lens.

Worse, you can't make full use of that $5k lens on a Pentax 645 film body. Being able to use legacy glass or glass that fits everything is part of the Pentax allure.

I'd much rather pay more for a lens that I can use across the board; however I am cognizant that different people have different wants and I can appreciate that.

Pentax can "wow" by fielding newer "full frame" lenses with modern coatings, more pixels + larger sensor size and or newer full frame lenses + 50mp + larger sensor.

or Pentax can languish by offering a 100mp, mirror'd 645 with current glass or one or two refreshes, and no believable road map for progress with their MF offering.

Pentax could easily distinguish itself in the market. The question is whether they have the money and gumption to do so.

Good post Stan

Stan Disbrow said:

Stan

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--
Teila K. Day
http://teiladay.com

Stan Disbrow said:

Maybe they will not only up the resolution of the 645z, but increase the physical imager size along with it. Yet another way to make the DSLR design differentiate Pentax.

Click to expand...

I thought the newer Pentax "645" lenses designed for digital are not designed to cover the full 645 size (56x42mm), and are only designed to cover the current Pentax digital sensor size (44x33mm)--no? If that is indeed the case, then the potential issue is:

43.8x32.9mm -> 54.8mm image circle,

49x36.7mm -> 61.2mm image circle (12% larger than 645D / 645Z), and

53.7x40.3mm -> 67.1mm image circle (22% larger than 645D / 645Z).

How much of a problem would this be? I don't know. Mostly I just remember some Pentaxians complaining about some of the newer lens designs due to image circles.

Also, there's the issue of what sensors are available at what cost. AFAIK, the commercially-available 49x36.7mm sensors are all older ones whose performance probably trails the 645Z sensor's performance; and the 53.7x40.3mm sensors that are new enough to provide a substantial performance gain are probably too expensive to work with Pentax's pricing model / customer base.

I would love to see Pentax pull through and remain a competitive option. I'm just not so sure what they can do other than wait for Sony to either introduce a new, moderately-priced 44x33mm sensor (probably BSI-CMOS of about 70-80 MP) or substantially reduce the price on the current 44x33mm 102 MP sensor.

Do we have any source to estimate how much the sensor in the Pentax 645Z or Fuji 50/100 costs Pentax or Fuji? Just out of curiosity.

NAwlins Contrarian said:

I thought the newer Pentax "645" lenses designed for digital are not designed to cover the full 645 size (56x42mm), and are only designed to cover the current Pentax digital sensor size (44x33mm)--no? If that is indeed the case, then the potential issue is:

Click to expand...

Some are, but some aren't.

• Pentax-DA 645 25/4 only covers 33x44, but the previous Pentax-D FA 25/4 covers 645 film.
• Pentax-D FA 645 35/3.5 covers 645 film and still has an aperture ring (which is great because I could use this one).
• Pentax-D FA 645 55/2.8 has no aperture ring, but covers 645 film.
• Pentax-DA 645 28-45/4.5 was meant to cover 33x44 only, but apparently in the middle of the zoom range it can just barely cover most of the 645 film area. There's a post buried somewhere on a forum where someone tested it. Alas, it does not have an aperture ring.

DA's cover the crop sensor, DFA's cover the FF 645 size (so, for now, only film cameras). That's how I understand it.

The difference is in the hoods, one of which clips the frame. This of course can be remedied.

tex said:

The difference is in the hoods, one of which clips the frame. This of course can be remedied.

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Oops, you're right indeed. Good catch. Yet another quirk of the film-digital transition in Pentax land.

Hi,

Ye Olde Nomenclature Confusion. Happens to everyone after enough time has passed.

They got me. The New Guy!

In Pentax, A= manual focus and FA= auto focus. So, that is easy. But, not so fast. I thought I had that one.... Nope.

So, I then figured D= digital. At least I got that right!

So, then, DA= digital manual and DFA= digital auto. Um. No. Bzzzz! Thank You For Playing!

DFA was digital and film auto. Um, OK. Digital Film Auto. I suppose.

DA is digital only auto. See, Digital Auto.

Never mind the A manual focus where I now figure they mean there is an Auto Aperture setting so one can use the command dial for aperture setting. And, that A carries over to the auto focus. And so does the letter. With a changed meaning. Maybe.

See, they got me. But, not for long. I came from Nikon where they gots enough letters for a box of Alpha Bits. And, the legacies wander all over the product map. And they love to reuse letters too. An E used to be a series of DSLRs, now it is a lens letter. The D used to be a lens letter, now it is a DSLR letter. There's more, but that's enough for now. Sigh.

Of course I got them all beat from making cell phones. More letters than the Campbell's Alphabet Soup manufacturing line.

But, then NASA beats everyone. Always has. Always will.

LTE y'all later!

Stan

Teila Day said:

Stan Disbrow said:

Hi,

Maybe they will not only up the resolution of the 645z

Click to expand...

My thought is Pentax doesn't have a choice but to increase the resolution if they want to be remotely competitive with a 44x33mm sensor. Either they have to move to 100mp or more, or surprise everyone with a reasonable alternative to increasing pixels... which would be increasing sensor real estate and keeping 50mp with a 54x40mm 'ish sensor (or larger).

Click to expand...

I was just thinking that. How great would it be if they came out with a true 645, 150mp camera fur around $8k? - The same price at which they introduced the 645z.

Man, that would put the final nail in Phase One's coffin and it would certainly get Fuji's attention.