Wake Up Nikon!

Alright,...Nikon has a chance to earn my business and get me into an MILC format! Case in point, Canon just announced the R5 / R6,...alone with proper battery grips! One BG has a built-in wireless transmitter,..and still holds dual batteries - ...that's the WFT-R10A. If this thing performs like what I've seen in a couple YT vids,...the Canon guys will love it.

So, Nikon, you're getting ready to revamp the Z6 / Z7,...with a proper grip, etc. Please offer the BG with Dual Batteries,...and built-in WT-6, WT-7,...or whatever.

Do that,...and I'm in line for 2 body's each,...Z6s and Z7s,....and will most ligely sell all of my F-mount glass for Z-mount glass.

Someone is going to get some nice glass used F-mount glass,....that is, if Nikon comes through with killer Z6s / Z7s capabilities!

JMD-70 said:

Alright,...Nikon has a chance to earn my business and get me into an MILC format! Case in point, Canon just announced the R5 / R6,...alone with proper battery grips! One BG has a built-in wireless transmitter,..and still holds dual batteries - ...that's the WFT-R10A. If this thing performs like what I've seen in a couple YT vids,...the Canon guys will love it.

So, Nikon, you're getting ready to revamp the Z6 / Z7,...with a proper grip, etc. Please offer the BG with Dual Batteries,...and built-in WT-6, WT-7,...or whatever.

Do that,...and I'm in line for 2 body's each,...Z6s and Z7s,....and will most ligely sell all of my F-mount glass for Z-mount glass.

Someone is going to get some nice glass used F-mount glass,....that is, if Nikon comes through with killer Z6s / Z7s capabilities!

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Relex. Canon just announced the R5 and R6 yesterday, but those are hardly secrets. I am sure Nikon will have new announcements within a month or two, but camera companies tend to make these announcements a couple of weeks apart to leave the spotlight to the other. In particular, there is no more like PhotoKina this September so that these announcements don't need to be within a few weeks ahead of the trade show. There is also no Summer Olympics this year so that Nikon's announcement doesn't need to work around that schedule. (When the Olympics is in progress, that gets everybody's attention so that people won't pay much to product announcements.)

I generally think everyone should calm down a notch or two and see what the next few months bring. That said, I agree that Nikon has to launch a "best-effort" camera (not a "well, let's not compete with our own D850 too much"-camera) that is on the level of the R5. The days of half-assed attempts to test the waters are over.

Already, cooking now...

BasilG said:

I generally think everyone should calm down a notch or two and see what the next few months bring. That said, I agree that Nikon has to launch a "best-effort" camera (not a "well, let's not compete with our own D850 too much"-camera) that is on the level of the R5. The days of half-assed attempts to test the waters are over.

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Agree about the D850!

Case in point,...I have a D500 w/grip and WT-7 rig, and it's a big setup. I've love to have the Nikon version of an R5/WFT-R10A,...the entire setup is so compact!

I'd have my cake,..and eat it too!

BasilG said:

I generally think everyone should calm down a notch or two and see what the next few months bring. That said, I agree that Nikon has to launch a "best-effort" camera (not a "well, let's not compete with our own D850 too much"-camera) that is on the level of the R5. The days of half-assed attempts to test the waters are over.

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The D850 was introduced three long years ago. Perhaps 99% (or at least 95/96%) of those who would like to buy a new D850 have already purchased one. Meanwhile, there will be more and more used D850 on the market.

I don't think Nikon would worry about any new Z body competing against the D850 or any DSLR at all. Nikon know very well that mirrorless is the future and they are moving full speed ahead, although Covid-19 is affecting things quite a bit, and it affects everybody, not just Nikon.

Meanwhile, Canon has had some very expensive 85mm/f1.2 and 28-70mm/f2 RF lenses, but until now, they lacked some high-end mirrorless bodies. Suddenly Canon introduce some higher-end bodies but some really low-end lenses.

Just be a little patient and see what Nikon can come up with in another month or two. If what Nikon announce disappoint you, then think about changing brands.

shuncheung said:

BasilG said:

I generally think everyone should calm down a notch or two and see what the next few months bring. That said, I agree that Nikon has to launch a "best-effort" camera (not a "well, let's not compete with our own D850 too much"-camera) that is on the level of the R5. The days of half-assed attempts to test the waters are over.

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The D850 was introduced three long years ago. Perhaps 99% (or at least 95/96%) of those who would like to buy a new D850 have already purchased one. Meanwhile, there will be more and more used D850 on the market.

I don't think Nikon would worry about any new Z body competing against the D850 or any DSLR at all. Nikon know very well that mirrorless is the future and they are moving full speed ahead, although Covid-19 is affecting things quite a bit, and it affects everybody, not just Nikon.

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I understand the current market environment but disagree regarding your assertions about Nikon not worrying what competes with what.

shuncheung said:

Just be a little patient and see what Nikon can come up with in another month or two. If what Nikon announce disappoint you, then think about changing brands.

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I am patient and I have no intention of changing brands. Not sure how you got that idea. The Z7 does pretty much everything I need, but I'm not representative of the mid-tier market overall. As I said, everyone should calm down a little.

BasilG said:

shuncheung said:

BasilG said:

I generally think everyone should calm down a notch or two and see what the next few months bring. That said, I agree that Nikon has to launch a "best-effort" camera (not a "well, let's not compete with our own D850 too much"-camera) that is on the level of the R5. The days of half-assed attempts to test the waters are over.

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The D850 was introduced three long years ago. Perhaps 99% (or at least 95/96%) of those who would like to buy a new D850 have already purchased one. Meanwhile, there will be more and more used D850 on the market.

I don't think Nikon would worry about any new Z body competing against the D850 or any DSLR at all. Nikon know very well that mirrorless is the future and they are moving full speed ahead, although Covid-19 is affecting things quite a bit, and it affects everybody, not just Nikon.

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I understand the current market environment but disagree regarding your assertions about Nikon not worrying what competes with what.

BasilG said:

Just be a little patient and see what Nikon can come up with in another month or two. If what Nikon announce disappoint you, then think about changing brands.

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I am patient and I have no intention of changing brands. Not sure how you got that idea. The Z7 does pretty much everything I need, but I'm not representative of the mid-tier market overall. As I said, everyone should calm down a little.

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Basil, sorry I was speaking more generally, and especially to the OP, that if what Nikon introduces in a few weeks (I have no idea about the exact time frame) is not what any individual wants, each one of us can make our individual decision to switch to, or add some equipment from another brand.

I have been using Nikon cameras since 1977, yes, 43 years ago. But for example, if the Z6 and Z7 merely have some minor S upgrades, to Z6s, Z7s, and if I want to shoot 8K video, I can definitely add a Canon R5 body and maybe a couple of Canon lenses. Afterall, concerning mirrorless, all I have so far is one Z6 body, which has served me well for 1.5 years. I am confident that Nikon will continue to produce new Z bodies and lenses to meet my needs, as they have been doing for 4 decades.

There is really no need to get overly work up one day after Canon's R5 and R6 announcement, or even within one week or one month.

BasilG said:

I generally think everyone should calm down a notch or two and see what the next few months bring. That said, I agree that Nikon has to launch a "best-effort" camera (not a "well, let's not compete with our own D850 too much"-camera) that is on the level of the R5. The days of half-assed attempts to test the waters are over.

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I don’t think Nikon worries about that. Or rather, they shouldn’t. They need to sell cameras and lenses. Period. It shouldn’t matter one whit to them whether someone buys a Z7, for example, or a D850. Nikon needs to have strong competitive MILC models against the competition, not worry about D850 sales. If a Z7s is so good that they don’t sell another D850 I say that’s a good thing. Mirrorless is the future. Anything Nikon does to impede adoption is going to be money lost.

michaeladawson said:

BasilG said:

I generally think everyone should calm down a notch or two and see what the next few months bring. That said, I agree that Nikon has to launch a "best-effort" camera (not a "well, let's not compete with our own D850 too much"-camera) that is on the level of the R5. The days of half-assed attempts to test the waters are over.

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I don’t think Nikon worries about that. Or rather, they shouldn’t. They need to sell cameras and lenses. Period. It shouldn’t matter one whit to them whether someone buys a Z7, for example, or a D850.

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I agree with you 100% but I am not sure that this is (or was) Nikon's thinking.

michaeladawson said:

Nikon needs to have strong competitive MILC models against the competition, not worry about D850 sales. If a Z7s is so good that they don’t sell another D850 I say that’s a good thing. Mirrorless is the future. Anything Nikon does to impede adoption is going to be money lost.

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100% agree.

It seems unreasonable to expect Nikon to behave as if they have the resources of much larger and diverse companies in an industry that is in a free-fall in terms of unit sales. They won't be able to iterate product at the speed of Sony, which has a confusing number of offerings available, and they won't be able to stagnate as long as Canon has and, finally at the last minute produce some products with some class leading specs. I don't mean to bash either Sony or Canon, especially because I don't use their cameras, but I can't recall the last time Sony actually discontinued a product and for the last couple of years (before this year) I don't think Canon has produced anything that stands out.

I think it is reasonable to expect that Nikon produce a supportable number of high quality offerings that are current with present day technology.

The top 3 volume camera makers, and probably more outside that group, are all currently offering state of the art bodies and lenses, and it's getting more and more difficult to tell the difference for most people.

Is there still room for innovation? Sure. I personally need the following:

1. A camera that will wake me up in time to get good wild life shots.

2. Hopefully with a teleportation device as driving to a location takes time and this feature would mean I could sleep later.

3. Anti-gravity would certainly lighten up the load for hikes!

I have no idea how any of the above would affect battery life.

I'd like to see Nikon do it just so you would have to post a pic of the invoice for 4 bodies and all new Z glass, replacing your current line of lenses....

I have a sneaky suspicion that some of that won't happen.

It's puzzling what Nikon's strategy is. I find Tom Hogan's analysis of Nikon and other industry trends interesting, but at the same time disheartening.

Two examples I noticed are the latest Nikon lenses to hit the street:

1. Nikon NIKKOR Z 58mm f/0.95 S Noct Lens for about $8,000

2. Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/4E FL ED VR Lens for about $10,300

Wow, great, but how many are going to be sold and at what profit margin?

So, it appears their R&D and manufacturing are not focused on mere $1,000 to $3,000 products for "the rest of us". Time will tell, but I think they'd sell a lot of "reasonable" Z lenses in the macro or the mystical 200-600 first.

And of course, a new or updated Z body might turn us into "flippers". Works for Apple getting untold millions to buy a new $1,000 camera/phone every year.

simpsondb said:

It's puzzling what Nikon's strategy is. I find Tom Hogan's analysis of Nikon and other industry trends interesting, but at the same time disheartening.

Two examples I noticed are the latest Nikon lenses to hit the street:

1. Nikon NIKKOR Z 58mm f/0.95 S Noct Lens for about $8,000

2. Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/4E FL ED VR Lens for about $10,300

Wow, great, but how many are going to be sold and at what profit margin?

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same logic as for the Olympus E-M1X..

That did them a lot of good didn't it.. :-|

If they'd put twin card slots in the Z6/7 and done a decent battery grip they would have sold more.

I agree the viewfinder refresh rate and continuous AF could also be improved, but I think the first 2 points have affected sales far more

simpsondb said:

It's puzzling what Nikon's strategy is. I find Tom Hogan's analysis of Nikon and other industry trends interesting, but at the same time disheartening.

Two examples I noticed are the latest Nikon lenses to hit the street:

1. Nikon NIKKOR Z 58mm f/0.95 S Noct Lens for about $8,000

2. Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/4E FL ED VR Lens for about $10,300

Wow, great, but how many are going to be sold and at what profit margin?

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The 500 f4 was released in 2015. I assume you're actually referring to the finally-backlog-cleared-production-still-couldn't-catch-up $3600 500PF launched together with the Z system.

Member said:

So, it appears their R&D and manufacturing are not focused on mere $1,000 to $3,000 products for "the rest of us". Time will tell, but I think they'd sell a lot of "reasonable" Z lenses in the macro or the mystical 200-600 first.

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Prices from B&H:

• Noct: $8000
• 70-200: $2600
• 24-70 f2.8: $2300
• 14-30: $1300
• 20 f1.8: $1050
• 24 f1.8: $1000
• 24-200: $900
• 35 f1.8: $850
• 85 f1.8: $800
• 50 f1.8: $600
• 50-250: $350
• 16-50 DX: $300

There is literally only one lens that costs more than 3 thousand dollars. A grand total of three that costs more than 2.

You do know in some corners of the Internet there are people complaining about why Nikon doesn't produce any fancier Z lenses.

Member said:

And of course, a new or updated Z body might turn us into "flippers". Works for Apple getting untold millions to buy a new $1,000 camera/phone every year.

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Droster said:

simpsondb said:

..

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Droster said:

So, it appears their R&D and manufacturing are not focused on mere $1,000 to $3,000 products for "the rest of us". Time will tell, but I think they'd sell a lot of "reasonable" Z lenses in the macro or the mystical 200-600 first.

Click to expand...

Prices from B&H:

• Noct: $8000
• 70-200: $2600
• 24-70 f2.8: $2300
• 14-30: $1300
• 20 f1.8: $1050
• 24 f1.8: $1000
• 24-200: $900
• 35 f1.8: $850
• 85 f1.8: $800
• 50 f1.8: $600
• 50-250: $350
• 16-50 DX: $300

There is literally only one lens that costs more than 3 thousand dollars. A grand total of three that costs more than 2.

You do know in some corners of the Internet there are people complaining about why Nikon doesn't produce any fancier Z lenses.

Droster said:

And of course, a new or updated Z body might turn us into "flippers". Works for Apple getting untold millions to buy a new $1,000 camera/phone every year.

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And don't forget the really great 24-70S f/4 @ $996 purchased separately... & less when purchased in a kit.

jfw said:

Droster said:

simpsondb said:

..

So, it appears their R&D and manufacturing are not focused on mere $1,000 to $3,000 products for "the rest of us". Time will tell, but I think they'd sell a lot of "reasonable" Z lenses in the macro or the mystical 200-600 first.

Click to expand...

Prices from B&H:

• Noct: $8000
• 70-200: $2600
• 24-70 f2.8: $2300
• 14-30: $1300
• 20 f1.8: $1050
• 24 f1.8: $1000
• 24-200: $900
• 35 f1.8: $850
• 85 f1.8: $800
• 50 f1.8: $600
• 50-250: $350
• 16-50 DX: $300

There is literally only one lens that costs more than 3 thousand dollars. A grand total of three that costs more than 2.

You do know in some corners of the Internet there are people complaining about why Nikon doesn't produce any fancier Z lenses.

jfw said:

And of course, a new or updated Z body might turn us into "flippers". Works for Apple getting untold millions to buy a new $1,000 camera/phone every year.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

And don't forget the really great 24-70S f/4 @ $996 purchased separately... & less when purchased in a kit.

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A shame that there is no 70-200mm f/4 on the roadmap though, a glaring hole when you consider the other pretty good f/4 lenses.

You can get near mint used copies from KEH, complete with caps and case for around $600.

jfw said:

And don't forget the really great 24-70S f/4 @ $996 purchased separately... & less when purchased in a kit.

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--
http://jimlafferty.com
General scoundrel. Evocative beats academic.

Droster said:

Prices from B&H:

• 24-70 f2.8: $2300

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In the UK including 20% sales tax (similar to $US without sales tax) the S version is under £1,700.