Nikon Z colors - specifically skin tones

Yes, this camera’s colors — not just skin tones — read on the greenish side to me. I’m using Adobe’s RAW converter in Photoshop, which is probably the same thing Lightroom uses. I haven’t quite found a solution yet. Adobe’s basic white balance menu options are rarely satisfying, so I’m having to go the custom route and tweak.

What camera did you use before the Z? I shoot with the little Canon G1X III when traveling, and its colors are warmer and rosier. Maybe it’s just what one is used to.
I've used Olympus before the Z for a few years, and Canon for many years before that.

I was never pleased with the Olympus colors in Lightroom, greens always seemed unnatural, so had to resort to DxO Photo Lab for that. Capture One Pro I tried and that gave good results as well, but C1 is just too expensive so I never went for it.

Canon just always looked right to me, but perhaps it's just because I started photography with Canon cameras (all the way back to the pocketable IXUS and then later on to DSLRs).

And my screen is calibrated to sRGB color space so that shouldn't be the issue. I'll need to tinker around a bit more and also compare images across different raw processors.

Really I'd like to move away from Lightroom, but the only good complete alternative is C1 which is very expensive (I know I can get the Nikon only version, but then I can't revisit raw shots from other cameras I've used in the past).
I do think Canon does a great job with color. I’ve shot a Nikon for many years and am generally happy with the brand. But when I bought the G1X III a few years ago, I was pleasantly impressed with the color straight out of the camera. I’d love to reproduce it in PP with my Z7.

Please keep us posted if you find a solution you like.
 
Seems that even in Capture NX-D I sometimes get weird greenish casts on skin tones, using the as recorded settings.

I may need to look into creating custom color profiles for Lightroom on import.

Besides using tools such as Colorchecker from Xrite, are there any other ways that don't require investing in something like that? I wouldn't mind investing in it, but apparently the colors fade after a year or two, requiring repurchasing it, which seems like a waste of money in that case.
 
Seems that even in Capture NX-D I sometimes get weird greenish casts on skin tones, using the as recorded settings.

I may need to look into creating custom color profiles for Lightroom on import.

Besides using tools such as Colorchecker from Xrite, are there any other ways that don't require investing in something like that? I wouldn't mind investing in it, but apparently the colors fade after a year or two, requiring repurchasing it, which seems like a waste of money in that case.
have you try to modify the Auto White Balance, the colour Balance away from the Green toward the B & M?
 
Seems that even in Capture NX-D I sometimes get weird greenish casts on skin tones, using the as recorded settings.

I may need to look into creating custom color profiles for Lightroom on import.

Besides using tools such as Colorchecker from Xrite, are there any other ways that don't require investing in something like that? I wouldn't mind investing in it, but apparently the colors fade after a year or two, requiring repurchasing it, which seems like a waste of money in that case.
have you try to modify the Auto White Balance, the colour Balance away from the Green toward the B & M?
I'll give that a shot. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
...
I was never pleased with the Olympus colors in Lightroom, greens always seemed unnatural, so had to resort to DxO Photo Lab for that. Capture One Pro I tried and that gave good results as well, but C1 is just too expensive so I never went for it.

...

Really I'd like to move away from Lightroom, but the only good complete alternative is C1 which is very expensive (I know I can get the Nikon only version, but then I can't revisit raw shots from other cameras I've used in the past).
Hi Starfly,

I'm not trying to take a poke at you, so please don't read my comments that way. But here's how your post reads to me: Starfly is a guy that:
  1. Has several thousands of dollars of camera equipment (cool)
  2. Is fussy about color (also cool)
  3. Knows that C1 Pro solves his color problem (also cool)
  4. Wants to get off of lightroom (also cool)
  5. Thinks C1 Pro is "too expensive"
1-4 make sense to me. #5 does not, especially given that you've spend thousands on your gear. I don't know your specific economic situation of course & I don't mean to be presumptuous but, if you look at the incremental cost difference between C1 and LR, it's really not much and you're already paying for LR. Futher, the software is the thing that produces the final results for you - so it certainly has value. And C1 is a terrific piece of software (though, sure it has it's faults) that provides terrific control over color - i.e., the exact thing you are looking for.

My suggestion to you would be: change your thinking about C1 and go for it. You'll get great colors, and your wallet really won't be much lighter than if you stick with LR. I've been using C1 for quite a while now and love it.

I hope this helped, rather than hurt!

Cheers

Jerry
 
...

I was never pleased with the Olympus colors in Lightroom, greens always seemed unnatural, so had to resort to DxO Photo Lab for that. Capture One Pro I tried and that gave good results as well, but C1 is just too expensive so I never went for it.

...

Really I'd like to move away from Lightroom, but the only good complete alternative is C1 which is very expensive (I know I can get the Nikon only version, but then I can't revisit raw shots from other cameras I've used in the past).
Hi Starfly,

I'm not trying to take a poke at you, so please don't read my comments that way. But here's how your post reads to me: Starfly is a guy that:
  1. Has several thousands of dollars of camera equipment (cool)
  2. Is fussy about color (also cool)
  3. Knows that C1 Pro solves his color problem (also cool)
  4. Wants to get off of lightroom (also cool)
  5. Thinks C1 Pro is "too expensive"
1-4 make sense to me. #5 does not, especially given that you've spend thousands on your gear. I don't know your specific economic situation of course & I don't mean to be presumptuous but, if you look at the incremental cost difference between C1 and LR, it's really not much and you're already paying for LR. Futher, the software is the thing that produces the final results for you - so it certainly has value. And C1 is a terrific piece of software (though, sure it has it's faults) that provides terrific control over color - i.e., the exact thing you are looking for.

My suggestion to you would be: change your thinking about C1 and go for it. You'll get great colors, and your wallet really won't be much lighter than if you stick with LR. I've been using C1 for quite a while now and love it.

I hope this helped, rather than hurt!

Cheers

Jerry
You make a fair point, but my issue with switching to C1 now is that I expect to purchase a couple more lenses when they come out, specifically the 24-105 f4 and 70-200 f4. C1 doesn't release lens profiles for older versions of their software. So I can purchase C1 v20 today, but those lenses won't come out until at least next year, requiring me to purchase C1 again. And their subscription model is really overpriced at double the cost of LR, I'd prefer to just get the perpetual license and use it for a few years.

And otherwise, owning expensive gear is not an argument for continuing to spend a lot of money. That gear is now a sunk cost and how much I spent on it is irrelevant towards any future purchases.
 
...

I was never pleased with the Olympus colors in Lightroom, greens always seemed unnatural, so had to resort to DxO Photo Lab for that. Capture One Pro I tried and that gave good results as well, but C1 is just too expensive so I never went for it.

...

Really I'd like to move away from Lightroom, but the only good complete alternative is C1 which is very expensive (I know I can get the Nikon only version, but then I can't revisit raw shots from other cameras I've used in the past).
Hi Starfly,

I'm not trying to take a poke at you, so please don't read my comments that way. But here's how your post reads to me: Starfly is a guy that:
  1. Has several thousands of dollars of camera equipment (cool)
  2. Is fussy about color (also cool)
  3. Knows that C1 Pro solves his color problem (also cool)
  4. Wants to get off of lightroom (also cool)
  5. Thinks C1 Pro is "too expensive"
1-4 make sense to me. #5 does not, especially given that you've spend thousands on your gear. I don't know your specific economic situation of course & I don't mean to be presumptuous but, if you look at the incremental cost difference between C1 and LR, it's really not much and you're already paying for LR. Futher, the software is the thing that produces the final results for you - so it certainly has value. And C1 is a terrific piece of software (though, sure it has it's faults) that provides terrific control over color - i.e., the exact thing you are looking for.

My suggestion to you would be: change your thinking about C1 and go for it. You'll get great colors, and your wallet really won't be much lighter than if you stick with LR. I've been using C1 for quite a while now and love it.

I hope this helped, rather than hurt!

Cheers

Jerry
You make a fair point, but my issue with switching to C1 now is that I expect to purchase a couple more lenses when they come out, specifically the 24-105 f4 and 70-200 f4. C1 doesn't release lens profiles for older versions of their software. So I can purchase C1 v20 today, but those lenses won't come out until at least next year, requiring me to purchase C1 again. And their subscription model is really overpriced at double the cost of LR, I'd prefer to just get the perpetual license and use it for a few years.

And otherwise, owning expensive gear is not an argument for continuing to spend a lot of money. That gear is now a sunk cost and how much I spent on it is irrelevant towards any future purchases.
Hi again. I realize you aren't likely to take my advice (which, of course, is perfectly fine). But I'll send you one more volley here:
  1. I wouldn't buy the subscription either, agreed.
  2. If you buy the perpetual license, and then not "buy again" but "buy the upgrade" when the upgrades suit your fancy, it seems it would solve your problem... feature-wise, that is.
  3. Then, cost-wise, if you add up all the, say, 5-year costs for your gear, software, everything for 2 options with the only diff being LR vs. C1, I think you'll find that the $$ diff's, though not infinitesimal, are really quite small - esp. percentage wise.
  4. Just something to think about!
Ok, that's my last volley on this one Starfly. I wish you success in solving your color problem.

Cheers!

Jerry
 
starfly wrote
You make a fair point, but my issue with switching to C1 now is that I expect to purchase a couple more lenses when they come out, specifically the 24-105 f4 and 70-200 f4. C1 doesn't release lens profiles for older versions of their software.
someone correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that C1 (and ACR/LR) automatically make use of Nikon’s lens profile for Nikkor Z lenses.
So I can purchase C1 v20 today, but those lenses won't come out until at least next year, requiring me to purchase C1 again. And their subscription model is really overpriced at double the cost of LR, I'd prefer to just get the perpetual license and use it for a few years.
I agree with you about the delta between the amortization of the perpetual license cost vs. the subscription cost.
And otherwise, owning expensive gear is not an argument for continuing to spend a lot of money.
Agreed.
That gear is now a sunk cost and how much I spent on it is irrelevant towards any future purchases.
 
...

I was never pleased with the Olympus colors in Lightroom, greens always seemed unnatural, so had to resort to DxO Photo Lab for that. Capture One Pro I tried and that gave good results as well, but C1 is just too expensive so I never went for it.

...

Really I'd like to move away from Lightroom, but the only good complete alternative is C1 which is very expensive (I know I can get the Nikon only version, but then I can't revisit raw shots from other cameras I've used in the past).
Hi Starfly,

I'm not trying to take a poke at you, so please don't read my comments that way. But here's how your post reads to me: Starfly is a guy that:
  1. Has several thousands of dollars of camera equipment (cool)
  2. Is fussy about color (also cool)
  3. Knows that C1 Pro solves his color problem (also cool)
  4. Wants to get off of lightroom (also cool)
  5. Thinks C1 Pro is "too expensive"
1-4 make sense to me. #5 does not, especially given that you've spend thousands on your gear. I don't know your specific economic situation of course & I don't mean to be presumptuous but, if you look at the incremental cost difference between C1 and LR, it's really not much and you're already paying for LR. Futher, the software is the thing that produces the final results for you - so it certainly has value. And C1 is a terrific piece of software (though, sure it has it's faults) that provides terrific control over color - i.e., the exact thing you are looking for.

My suggestion to you would be: change your thinking about C1 and go for it. You'll get great colors, and your wallet really won't be much lighter than if you stick with LR. I've been using C1 for quite a while now and love it.

I hope this helped, rather than hurt!

Cheers

Jerry
Is C1 fixed the issue? I am using C1 for a month. And decided to move back to Lightroom. The reason is the Purple/Green Fringing. It won’t fix the purple/green fringing issue on the photos. But Lightroom did very effective to eliminate the purple, may 60% of the time for Green. I have few AF-D lens. C1 is too bad in this.

If I only have S lens, then C1 maybe the better choice.
 
I've not settled on this yet, still playing with it, but I adjusted my Portrait Picture Profile to be +1.25 Hue.
Right, I hadn't considered changing picture profiles. I usually have it on neutral. Something for me to consider...
Although it goes against orthodox thinking, for general photography I think of camera profiles as being a starting palette for a photo so I start by trying different ones as a basis for further processing steps.


The exception is when I am photographing products and copying art work and using controlled lighting. On those types of projects I want to start by biasing towards as a neutral rendering as possible and if time allows will create a custom profile using an Xrite ColorChecker SG Digital target and BasICColor 6 Input software, taking into account the lighting and lens as well as the camera.
 
So I've been shooting with my Z6 for a while now and I can't help but notice that I often need to tweak the white balance and tint sliders in Lightroom to get skintones that look right, or at least, more pleasing. They sometimes have a slight greenish and/or yellowish cast, especially when the picture has other green elements in it such as leaves or grass.

Is this common for Nikon?
It should be common with every camera. If you are shooting on grass or amongst green foliage and you have sufficient light to reflect off your surroundings, your images will take on the cast of those surroundings. How can they not?
Fair point. But I've also encountered situations where it's just a person wearing a green shirt out on the beach later afternoon with warm lighting. And still a slight greenish cast. It's very slight, but I notice it and feel like I need to adjust it. Maybe it's just the way Lightroom reads NEF files.
There is no one way that LR 'reads' NEF files. It "reads" NEF files according to the camera profile applied. What camera profile are you applying in LR?
 
So I've been shooting with my Z6 for a while now and I can't help but notice that I often need to tweak the white balance and tint sliders in Lightroom to get skintones that look right, or at least, more pleasing. They sometimes have a slight greenish and/or yellowish cast, especially when the picture has other green elements in it such as leaves or grass.

Is this common for Nikon?
It should be common with every camera. If you are shooting on grass or amongst green foliage and you have sufficient light to reflect off your surroundings, your images will take on the cast of those surroundings. How can they not?
Fair point. But I've also encountered situations where it's just a person wearing a green shirt out on the beach later afternoon with warm lighting. And still a slight greenish cast. It's very slight, but I notice it and feel like I need to adjust it. Maybe it's just the way Lightroom reads NEF files.
There is no one way that LR 'reads' NEF files. It "reads" NEF files according to the camera profile applied. What camera profile are you applying in LR?
I've tried several, such as Adobe Color, Adobe Standard, Camera Standard, Camera Neutral, Camera Portrait. With the as shot white balance, they all have a greenish cast on the skin.

I just downloaded the Capture One 20 trial and that also gives me a greenish cast on the same pictures.

Nikon's software as well. It's really something that's in the Raw data.

Yeah, I can with some processing get rid of that greenish cast by tweaking the white balance and tint sliders, but this is the first camera I've owned where I've had to do that.

I'd post a picture as an example, but it's of my daughter and I don't want her photos all over the internet :)
 
I presume you have tried the Tint slider in Lightroom a little away from green toward magenta.

Are you shooting portraits in situations where a lot of light is reflected from green foliage?

If yes a green tint is likely to be technically accurate - and less likely to be a camera or Lightroom issue.
 
So I've been shooting with my Z6 for a while now and I can't help but notice that I often need to tweak the white balance and tint sliders in Lightroom to get skintones that look right, or at least, more pleasing. They sometimes have a slight greenish and/or yellowish cast, especially when the picture has other green elements in it such as leaves or grass.

Is this common for Nikon?
It should be common with every camera. If you are shooting on grass or amongst green foliage and you have sufficient light to reflect off your surroundings, your images will take on the cast of those surroundings. How can they not?
Fair point. But I've also encountered situations where it's just a person wearing a green shirt out on the beach later afternoon with warm lighting. And still a slight greenish cast. It's very slight, but I notice it and feel like I need to adjust it. Maybe it's just the way Lightroom reads NEF files.
There is no one way that LR 'reads' NEF files. It "reads" NEF files according to the camera profile applied. What camera profile are you applying in LR?
I've tried several, such as Adobe Color, Adobe Standard, Camera Standard, Camera Neutral, Camera Portrait. With the as shot white balance, they all have a greenish cast on the skin.

I just downloaded the Capture One 20 trial and that also gives me a greenish cast on the same pictures.

Nikon's software as well. It's really something that's in the Raw data.

Yeah, I can with some processing get rid of that greenish cast by tweaking the white balance and tint sliders, but this is the first camera I've owned where I've had to do that.

I'd post a picture as an example, but it's of my daughter and I don't want her photos all over the internet :)
Fair enough. It sounds like you have already taken some measures to correct what you are perceiving. Without a sample image, it is difficult to comment further. Other than to recommend some relevant reading authored by one of our valued mentors and teachers on this and other fora:

https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/two-digital-camera-color-fallacies/

https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/calibrating-out-the-camera-when-making-color-profiles/

https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/z7-a7riii-and-gfx-color-shifts-with-adobe-profiles/

https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/roles-of-camera-and-raw-developer-in-determining-color/

and there are many more on Jim's site that are pertinent to your issue.
 
Try the Capture One 20 Pro 30 day trial... when shooting outdoors use Natural Light Auto white balance. You will find your problems go away with Capture One...
 
Try the Capture One 20 Pro 30 day trial... when shooting outdoors use Natural Light Auto white balance. You will find your problems go away with Capture One...
So today I took my daughter out to a nearby park, with lots of green grass. It was 8am morning light and I used Natural Light Auto. Also using the C1 Pro trial, and the results are quite pleasing so far.

Picture below, processed through C1. White balance is as shot, and the only adjustments are that I raised the exposure a little (+0.41EV), increased contrast a little, and lowered the highlights a bit. No color adjustments.

I will need to get better at using the right camera settings for the right time to get good colors. Also, the Z 50mm lens is fantastic!

4c0da3e939c64201992be82514219b5c.jpg
 
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Lovely. Did you try processing any of the shots in Lightroom? I’m curious to know if there was a significant difference between C1 and Lightroom.
 
Yes. I adjust all of my White Balance settings to add more Magenta color. All the Nikon's I've had, starting with the D90 and all others including the D3x00, D600, D800, D810, D850, and yes the Z6 too.

It's an easy adjustment. In the menu, select White Balance (like Auto, Daylight, Cloudy, Shade, Sunlight, etc), and keep pressing to the right to see the expanded options, when you see a target, click downward to adjust it more Magenta A 0.0, M0.5 (or more to taste).

Again, I do this to ALL of my White Balance options (except for Kelvin, obviously). It will look much better, even with a M0.25 adjustment. Personally, I shoot with M1.0.

Hope that helps.

Joel
 
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Yes. I adjust all of my White Balance settings to add more Magenta color. All the Nikon's I've had, starting with the D90 and all others including the D3x00, D600, D800, D810, D850, and yes the Z6 too.

It's an easy adjustment. In the menu, select White Balance (like Auto, Daylight, Cloudy, Shade, Sunlight, etc), and keep pressing to the right to see the expanded options, when you see a target, click downward to adjust it more Magenta A 0.0, M0.5 (or more to taste).

Again, I do this to ALL of my White Balance options (except for Kelvin, obviously). It will look much better, even with a M0.25 adjustment. Personally, I shoot with M1.0.

Hope that helps.

Joel
Yes, I should add that I tweaked my in camera white balance settings to +1 Magenta for AWB, but hadn't done it yet for Natural Light Auto. Most of these shots were Natural Light Auto and did give me an overal better color balance (to taste of course) than AWB did before I made the +1 Magenta adjustment
 
Lovely. Did you try processing any of the shots in Lightroom? I’m curious to know if there was a significant difference between C1 and Lightroom.
I hadn't processed it yet in Lightroom, but just opened it up there and Lightroom at 'As Shot' white balance and tint renders it slightly more green using the Camera Neutral V2 profile (I also used Camera Neutral in C1, and it's the profile I use in camera).

This is most noticeable in the grass. Skintones look OK, but I overall prefer the C1 rendering.

Looks like I might become a C1 convert. I honestly prefer the overall workflow as well. Seems like I get results I like a bit faster, and it also feels snappier than Lightroom.
 

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