Used Camera Prices...a bit of a lottery

Recently I’ve been looking to pick up a Leica Mini Zoom. I know, i know.

(As an aside I bought one some 25 years ago when I found myself in San Francisco about to start a holiday and without my camera. It seemed a good compromise purchase at the time and I can assure you I wasn’t seduced by the red dot.)

It turned out to be a simple but useful camera that I occasionally enjoyed using but I sold it about 8 years ago for £46 to reduce my ever-increasing camera collection.

But when my interest in film photography re-emerged nostalgia took hold and I felt I had to own one again. So I started to look on auction sites.

What I wasn’t aware of was how much certain film cameras have risen in price so that now the cheapest one I could find was £170 and they ranged up to £350 (I’ll ignore the crazy who wanted nearly £500 for his.)

A Google search can lead one anywhere and I soon found out that the Leica Mini Zoom was not designed nor manufactured by Leica (no surprise there) but was designed by Kyocera or Minolta, depending on who you believe, and build by Matsushita.

But then I found that it seems this design was also branded by others eg the Vivitar Series One 500PZ and the Panasonic Mini Zoom C-D2200PZ, currently ranging from £13 to £110.

So it would appear that:

1. Film camera prices are in the ascendancy
2. The Leica red dot still seems to command a premium
3. If you are just interested in the end result then a bit of research is well worthwhile as it will show you there are often much cheaper alternatives.

Certain cameras have been become cult classic over the past few years as film photography has become more popular again. It's hard to list all the cameras that have popped in value. The mju 2, Canon Canonet QL17 GIII, Hasselblad Xpan, anything Leica, all the small high quality P&S, certain Nikon SLRs but there are too many to name. Some of them for seemingly no reason since they made millions of copies of some of these cameras. But time and wear and tear is taking a toll on these cameras and it's hard to find good working copies. Prices will continue to rise and rise as more and more are thrown away every year as they break.

Yes I can understand the Leicas and Hasselblads keeping their value but there are loads of Mju ii available but all at seemingly inflated prices. But if that's the market....

I guess that as these old cameras wear out or become uneconomical to repair then the prices will inflate even more. Time to buy what I am lusting after before its too late.

davesurrey said:

Yes I can understand the Leicas and Hasselblads keeping their value but there are loads of Mju ii available but all at seemingly inflated prices. But if that's the market....

I guess that as these old cameras wear out or become uneconomical to repair then the prices will inflate even more. Time to buy what I am lusting after before its too late.

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There are not "loads" of mju ii available. The break at a high rate. They have also become a bit of a cult classic. I had one for a couple of years. It was very small and fast in certain situations but if you ever wanted to turn off the flash in a rush, good luck.

Prices will continue to climb as demand climbs and more and more end up in the dump as they break

Not loads of Mju ii available????

I just clicked on ebay and saw 131 currently for sale. That's a lot in anyone's book.

Anyway I always preferred the XA series.

davesurrey said:

Not loads of Mju ii available????

I just clicked on ebay and saw 131 currently for sale. That's a lot in anyone's book.

Anyway I always preferred the XA series.

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When I bought a new one from the store (way back when), there were hundreds just in one store. It's all relative. Half of the ones on eBay are probably damaged in some way...

davesurrey said:

But then I found that it seems this design was also branded by others eg the Vivitar Series One 500PZ and the Panasonic Mini Zoom C-D2200PZ, currently ranging from £13 to £110.

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Theres at least one other family like that:

Leica AF mini

Olympus Trip AF mini

Minolta Riva mini

Panasonic C635AF Super Mini



I had the Olympus for a while and it took nice photos. I didn’t like the lack of any lens covering though The Olympus goes for around £35 now, the Leica for £100 - £200

You may well be correct and I'm sure that goes for a lot of the old used cameras. To be fair I wouldn't expect a 30 to 40 year old car to come without any issues.

I've decided that several of my old film cameras are going off for CLA and any necessary repairs so I can start to enjoy them again. Best to do it now while the expertise is still around. Not so many experienced repair folk now in the UK.

Overrank said:

Overrank said:

But then I found that it seems this design was also branded by others eg the Vivitar Series One 500PZ and the Panasonic Mini Zoom C-D2200PZ, currently ranging from £13 to £110.

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Theres at least one other family like that:

Leica AF mini

Olympus Trip AF mini

Minolta Riva mini

Panasonic C635AF Super Mini

I had the Olympus for a while and it took nice photos. I didn’t like the lack of any lens covering though The Olympus goes for around £35 now, the Leica for £100 - £200

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That's interesting as I can understand the "family" connections with Leica, Panasonic and even Minolta but surprised that Olympus joined that club.

I see the Red spot strikes again.

Just taken apart an XA2 which wasn't working (wouldn't wind on, shutter not working, battery check seemed dead) despite sold as fully functional and after removing the base plate (scary) and a bit of guess work it's now seemingly good to go.

Somehow the fact that it's a bit of a lottery adds to the fun.

Overrank said:

The Olympus goes for around £35 now, the Leica for £100 - £200

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Interesting statement, I'm struggling to see them sell anywhere less than £35 for a poor example and £50+ for a good one.

Tempted to get one myself, anyway. They look funky and the OH uses an Olympus OM10 sporadically so she'd appreciate the branding.

Edit: My apologies - I was looking at the Trip 35, not the Trip AF.

Benz3ne said:

Overrank said:

The Olympus goes for around £35 now, the Leica for £100 - £200

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Interesting statement, I'm struggling to see them sell anywhere less than £35 for a poor example and £50+ for a good one.

Tempted to get one myself, anyway. They look funky and the OH uses an Olympus OM10 sporadically so she'd appreciate the branding.

Edit: My apologies - I was looking at the Trip 35, not the Trip AF.

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Of the six Trip AF minis that have sold on UK eBay three went for between £36 and £41, one for near £50 and two for £65. You might be right about condition. I was basing the prices on eBay plus what I’d sold one for a few months ago.

The Trip 35 is a whole different camera with a completely different pricing ! A black Trip has sold for £150 which is Nikon FM + lens territory.

In another post here I asked if there were any alternatives to the Olympus Mju II. I found that for £50 you can get a pentax PC35AF, a Ricoh TF-500 and, if you're lucky, a Minolta AF-C. All with af and 35mm 2.8 lenses.

If the oly had a very special lens or a manual mode, fine. But 3 times the price just because it's a little smaller?



And it's cheaper to get a digital Ricoh GR than a film one...

davesurrey said:

That's interesting as I can understand the "family" connections with Leica, Panasonic and even Minolta but surprised that Olympus joined that club.

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For many AF point-and-shoots of the 1980s/90s, the "family" connection is their actual designer and manufacturer, one of a couple of companies that evolved into the firm known today as Xacti.

In the 1980s, there were a couple of companies that designed and manufactured AF point-and-shoots for the brand name manufacturers, including a division of Sanyo that is the direct ancestor of Xacti and also an arm of Panasonic, if I'm not mistaken, that I believe was merged into the Xacti family tree at some point.

These OEM firms would create a basic camera design and manufacture variations of it for several camera brands with minor cosmetic and feature differences.

When digital came along, Xacti became one of the world's largest designers and manufacturers of digital point-and-shoot cameras, nearly all of them sold under someone else's brand name.

There was at least one SLR design, by Cosina, that has a similar history. The same basic camera was sold under the Vivitar, Canon, Olympus, and Nikon brand names, among many others, over a period of 30-something years. It was a basic, inexpensive mechanical SLR, aimed at students.

peripheralfocus said:

davesurrey said:

That's interesting as I can understand the "family" connections with Leica, Panasonic and even Minolta but surprised that Olympus joined that club.

Click to expand...

For many AF point-and-shoots of the 1980s/90s, the "family" connection is their actual designer and manufacturer, one of a couple of companies that evolved into the firm known today as Xacti.

In the 1980s, there were a couple of companies that designed and manufactured AF point-and-shoots for the brand name manufacturers, including a division of Sanyo that is the direct ancestor of Xacti and also an arm of Panasonic, if I'm not mistaken, that I believe was merged into the Xacti family tree at some point.

These OEM firms would create a basic camera design and manufacture variations of it for several camera brands with minor cosmetic and feature differences.

When digital came along, Xacti became one of the world's largest designers and manufacturers of digital point-and-shoot cameras, nearly all of them sold under someone else's brand name.

There was at least one SLR design, by Cosina, that has a similar history. The same basic camera was sold under the Vivitar, Canon, Olympus, and Nikon brand names, among many others, over a period of 30-something years. It was a basic, inexpensive mechanical SLR, aimed at students.

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The Cosina CT-1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosina_CT-1) which is also supposed to be the basis for the Bessa R2 (https://johnnymartyr.wordpress.com/...the-voigtlander-bessa-r2-and-series-overview/)

I go on about this all the time. Nostalgia and reputation play an outsize role in used camera pricing.

Witness that the Pentax K1000 trades for more than the Pentax KX, which is the same camera with more features. Or that the same K1000 sells for at least 4x as much as a Nikon N8008 when it used to be the other way around.

I've got a feature coming up for DP Review that addresses that very subject -- how you really can get a superiffic camera for surprisingly cheap.

I'm mostly a 35mm SLR guy and I've found some terrific bargains. Autofocus Minoltas and Sears (rebadged Ricoh) cameras are among my favorites -- great cameras that can be had dirt cheap. I bought a Minolta 400si body for parts -- $12 shipped. It worked perfectly! So now it's "in service" with the Minolta 35-105 I bought for $32. So <$45 for a magnificent setup(and it turns out I could have bought the lens even cheaper).

Still looking for a parts camera for my RZ430si, though.

Aaron

Canon AE-1 sometimes go for more than Canon A-1 which I can never figure out why except that people talk more about the AE-1 than the A-1 because there are more of them.

Autonerd said:

I go on about this all the time. Nostalgia and reputation play an outsize role in used camera pricing.

Witness that the Pentax K1000 trades for more than the Pentax KX, which is the same camera with more features. Or that the same K1000 sells for at least 4x as much as a Nikon N8008 when it used to be the other way around.

I've got a feature coming up for DP Review that addresses that very subject -- how you really can get a superiffic camera for surprisingly cheap.

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You know the prices will go up on the ones you mention WItness the mju ii 115mm zooms selling for £150 and the mju v 105mm (In my mind a nicer camera) which go for less than £60 because they don’t say “mju ii”

Autonerd said:

I'm mostly a 35mm SLR guy and I've found some terrific bargains. Autofocus Minoltas and Sears (rebadged Ricoh) cameras are among my favorites -- great cameras that can be had dirt cheap. I bought a Minolta 400si body for parts -- $12 shipped. It worked perfectly! So now it's "in service" with the Minolta 35-105 I bought for $32. So <$45 for a magnificent setup(and it turns out I could have bought the lens even cheaper).

Still looking for a parts camera for my RZ430si, though.

Aaron

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I have been developing a website for such occasions, I've web scraped over 60 retailers so far for products and prices so that they can be searched in a centralised tool

https://usedlens.co.uk/

Yep. I think I once bought a Nikon FE for $35. Doubt they cost that little now.

That Cosina, I believe, M42 mount camera that was sold as the Viviatar 220/SL was a solid camera.

And that model that spawned the Nikon FM10 ...


The aluminum alloy chassis used in the FM10 can be traced back more than twenty-five years to the Cosina CT-1. Cosina has a long history of producing equipment to specification for other camera companies. Other famous name SLR cameras that were built around the CT-1 chassis include the Canon T60, Nikon FE10, Olympus OM2000, Ricoh KR-5 Super II and Yashica FX-3. They differ primarily in their outer cosmetic plastic body panels, lens mounts and nameplates. This chassis is also used, in heavily reworked form, as the basis for the recent Rollei 35RF, Zeiss Ikon and Cosina's own Voigtländer branded Bessa R series of 35 mm film rangefinder (RF) cameras as well as the unique Epson R-D1 digital rangefinder camera in magnesium alloy.

Nikon sure did stray in late film days. While the Nikon EM was a sharp camera for its intentions, I was underwhelmed by the FG and FG20. Just shallow, tinny.

The rangefinder that Cosina fitted to the "FM10" was excellent. They have done well with the Voigtlander branded lenses.