Buying options ?

Carol T · Jun 15, 2020

ahaslett said:
Carol T said:

rashid7 said:

Andrew is right (i stand corrected) - you can use EV in M mode. It doesn't register on the Exposure scale, because that is reserved for "live" exposure value based upon your exposure triangle settings. But it does give a numerical +EV- # next to the scale at bottom of screen

Click to expand...

Thanks, good to know!

Sadly the reviews from DPR are far, far less detailed than in the past, so it is hard to find out things like this without either asking here, or downloading and reading the manuals.

Click to expand...

Good luck with Olympus manuals! DPR is your friend.

I've been a RAW shooter long enough that I can't get my mind around settings for SooC jpegs. I tend to use A, because that impacts the composition and then use other settings depending on whether shutter speed is important or not.

Andrew

I used to shoot raw only, then found out that doing that means the camera tend to default to a low-quality image for preview, so now I shoot raw+fine. Which gives me a lot of useless JPEGs. I wish you could set cameras up to do high-quality preview without saving JPEGs.

I have on rare occasions shot JPEGs, if I was going to send the directly to my phone. I rarely did that in the past because using the OI.share app was massively frustrating. I usually had to sign in every other thing I did. Hopefully with BT hand holding things will go better with the G9. Hopefully the Panasonic app is better than OI.share too, omg I think the same people who designs Olympus menus does that app.

ahaslett · Jun 15, 2020

Carol T said:
ahaslett said:

Carol T said:

rashid7 said:

Andrew is right (i stand corrected) - you can use EV in M mode. It doesn't register on the Exposure scale, because that is reserved for "live" exposure value based upon your exposure triangle settings. But it does give a numerical +EV- # next to the scale at bottom of screen

Click to expand...

Thanks, good to know!

Sadly the reviews from DPR are far, far less detailed than in the past, so it is hard to find out things like this without either asking here, or downloading and reading the manuals.

Click to expand...

Good luck with Olympus manuals! DPR is your friend.

I've been a RAW shooter long enough that I can't get my mind around settings for SooC jpegs. I tend to use A, because that impacts the composition and then use other settings depending on whether shutter speed is important or not.

Andrew

Click to expand...

I used to shoot raw only, then found out that doing that means the camera tend to default to a low-quality image for preview, so now I shoot raw+fine. Which gives me a lot of useless JPEGs. I wish you could set cameras up to do high-quality preview without saving JPEGs.

I have on rare occasions shot JPEGs, if I was going to send the directly to my phone. I rarely did that in the past because using the OI.share app was massively frustrating. I usually had to sign in every other thing I did. Hopefully with BT hand holding things will go better with the G9. Hopefully the Panasonic app is better than OI.share too, omg I think the same people who designs Olympus menus does that app.

I put RAW on one card and LSF jpeg on the other. I suspect that I have to toggle playback to get the best chimp out of the camera. Sony solve this problem by having rubbish jpegs, if you shoot RAW. On Sony, I shoot only RAW.

I find OI.share works OK. With Image App, sometimes the magic works and sometimes it doesn’t.

Andrew

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post

DLBlack · Jun 15, 2020

You already have very good cameras. If you can not decide between several other cameras then wait. In time you will come to a conclusion and then buy it when it becomes clear. If you just can not wait go to a store and try out the ones you are considering. Remember there might be a new Panasonic released later this year maybe even an new Olympus.

Felice62 · Jun 16, 2020

DLBlack said:
You already have very good cameras. If you can not decide between several other cameras then wait. In time you will come to a conclusion and then buy it when it becomes clear. If you just can not wait go to a store and try out the ones you are considering. Remember there might be a new Panasonic released later this year maybe even an new Olympus.

While facing the same dilemma, a few months ago I went for the outsider and picked up a Fuji X-T3

(having already 2 G9s)

I guess it was GAS but I am glad I did.

Cheers,

pattymeboy · Jun 16, 2020

And your thoughts on the Fuji?

Felice62 · Jun 17, 2020

pattymeboy said:
And your thoughts on the Fuji?

Disclaimer:

I am invested in MFT with several bodies and lenses and love the portability of the system as a whole, its overall performance, cost/benefit, image quality.

The Fuji X-T3 is a superb camera. it is as beautiful as a PEN-F, responsive as a G9, with most of the great features you have in top tier MFT bodies. OOC Jpeg are just so good that you would hardly need to shoot raw, and this is the thing I really like about Fuji.

You spend some time in setting up in-camera tweaks to your likings in a manner to produce OOC jpegs that really reflect your moods for most any given shooting scenario.

It is probably the most customize-able camera I have come across to.

Things I don't like:

Handling: it doesn't feel balanced. I added a L-bracket to grab it better but it doesn't come any close to bodies like the G9, for instance...

Lenses line-up: Fuji primes are great pieces of glass, but once you run MFT aside, anything else pales... Don't get me wrong, Fujinon primes like the 16, 23, 35, 50, 56, 90.. are all really fine lenses, all made for APS-C, thus compact enough, most are weather sealed, really well built. However if you need long zooms nothing takes you where PL100-400 can.

They're usually pricier than MFT lenses and there aren't many third party option, except Viltrox who pulled out some fine primes (23, 33 and 85mm) at reasonable prices.

I wish Sigma would step in with its fine primes (16, 30, 56mm).

The Fuji platform is outstanding, in terms of overall quality. Having more mens choices would boost the whoms system.

Fuji is the only serious APS-C provider out there.

My thoughts...

James Stirling · Jun 17, 2020

DLBlack said:
You already have very good cameras. If you can not decide between several other cameras then wait. In time you will come to a conclusion and then buy it when it becomes clear. If you just can not wait go to a store and try out the ones you are considering. Remember there might be a new Panasonic released later this year maybe even an new Olympus.

That is sound advice , I have had the GX8 since it came out in 2015 and it is one of my most loved cameras ever. I do miss not having decent IBIS for video. The pixel shift thing is more of a would be nice rather than a must have. Plus no matter how long I wait the GX8 true update will be announced the day after I buy the new camera

I am just finishing my tea before getting back to fence building so plenty time to think it through. But your advice is sage

Dr Hal · Jun 17, 2020

Fuji is NOT the only serious APC camera out there. I never never thought that I would leave M43 because I just love travelling with my G9 and GX9 and my wonderful Panasonic glass. However, I have a Canon M6 Mark II and it is a wonderful camera, very small, beautiful Jpegs, 32.5mp sensor. It has become the camera that I grab when I leave the house...problem is I rarely am able to leave the house these days. I am thinking that when things open up again, and they will, I will probably sell my M43 cameras and lenses and go all in with the Canon M series. I have owned Fuji and did not love it...never was tempted to leave M43 for Fuji.

Hal

Felice62 · Jun 17, 2020

Dr Hal said:
Fuji is NOT the only serious APC camera out there. I never never thought that I would leave M43 because I just love travelling with my G9 and GX9 and my wonderful Panasonic glass. However, I have a Canon M6 Mark II and it is a wonderful camera, very small, beautiful Jpegs, 32.5mp sensor. It has become the camera that I grab when I leave the house...problem is I rarely am able to leave the house these days. I am thinking that when things open up again, and they will, I will probably sell my M43 cameras and lenses and go all in with the Canon M series. I have owned Fuji and did not love it...never was tempted to leave M43 for Fuji.

Hal

Canon will be a serious APS-C player when they'll offer lenses for their M series. now there is only Fuji ans Sony following up. as for the sensor, I am not after the MP count. 26 seem more than enough. Also Sony with their updated 24mp sensor are doing well.

But as a whole Fuji is more of a system than anyone else, for me.

pattymeboy · Jun 17, 2020

James, I must say that this has been an interesting thread, from M4/3 to APSC and with absolutely no acrimony, amazing! I will throw my 2 cents in, If I had the money, I'd buy a Leica Q ll and call it a day for my kind of shooting.

rashid7 · Jun 17, 2020

pattymeboy said:
James, I must say that this has been an interesting thread, from M4/3 to APSC and with absolutely no acrimony, amazing! I will throw my 2 cents in, If I had the money, I'd buy a Leica Q ll and call it a day for my kind of shooting.

that's a $5K "if" Patty, ha ha

pattymeboy · Jun 17, 2020

Rashid,

Yes, I know and it also follows the logic of "If" I had a Gulfstream lll to fly to my 100 ft. yacht moored off Dubrovnik in the Adriatic. I could take some very beautiful photos indeed.

I can dream can't I?

Patric

Tom Caldwell · Jun 17, 2020

I tried the E-M1 along the way - nice camera. But my camera needs involve multiple cameras each with lens for amateur theatre dress rehearsals. This basically means, in the manner I like to do it, that I use longer fast lenses that have been mainly primes (to get a bit better speed). The stage lighting tends to vary with the show being presented. The light can be good enough often for somewhat slower lenses, but obviously this is never a guarantee.

I also like to capture “individual performances” rather than “full stage”. Longer faster focal lengths help.

This leaves swapping lenses in a continuing full run-through performance too time consuming and bordering hazardous in a darkened venue.

As I therefore swap cameras it is nice to have a consistent interface and the fact that Panasonic and Olympus are far apart on the way that they do interface becomes a serious issue (for me at least). Time is of the essence and I cannot really be bothered with picking up a camera and thinking “now how do I do this?” with the new camera body in hand.

No doubt in less pressured circumstances swapping between Olympus and Panasonic bodies is less of a challenge. Furthermore if we always do Olympus or always do Panasonic the learning curve sorts it out. It is just that when I combined an Olympus body with several Panasonics bodies for specifically continuous still capture theatre work with dress rehearsal that having one body with a completely unfamiliar interface was a significant chore I could do without.

Strangely I did not have this difficulty when combining Canon dslr interface with the Panasonic one for some reason. But I had been doing this type of work with Canon dslr bodies for years previously.

This is unlikely to be an issue other than where swapping bodies in a moving production where I don’t want to miss a moment and only get one chance at it.

There are limited circumstances where this can be an issue - but if they apply as it has with my needs then sticking with one consistent interface that applies between a range of bodies is what has become a necessity for me. Even Panasonic moves some of their controls between some models which requires remembering but it is not a whole new way of doing things like Olympus offers. That said - the front and back wheels, the grip, and the shutter button of the E-M1 are excellently laid out. The rest I am not so sure about.

James Stirling · Jun 17, 2020

Tom Caldwell said:
I tried the E-M1 along the way - nice camera. But my camera needs involve multiple cameras each with lens for amateur theatre dress rehearsals. This basically means, in the manner I like to do it, that I use longer fast lenses that have been mainly primes (to get a bit better speed). The stage lighting tends to vary with the show being presented. The light can be good enough often for somewhat slower lenses, but obviously this is never a guarantee.

I also like to capture “individual performances” rather than “full stage”. Longer faster focal lengths help.

This leaves swapping lenses in a continuing full run-through performance too time consuming and bordering hazardous in a darkened venue.

As I therefore swap cameras it is nice to have a consistent interface and the fact that Panasonic and Olympus are far apart on the way that they do interface becomes a serious issue (for me at least). Time is of the essence and I cannot really be bothered with picking up a camera and thinking “now how do I do this?” with the new camera body in hand.

All true Tom, also the way both companies have sneaked in little incompatibilities between lenses is a bit of annoyance , some in fact are not so little :-(

Tom Caldwell said:
No doubt in less pressured circumstances swapping between Olympus and Panasonic bodies is less of a challenge. Furthermore if we always do Olympus or always do Panasonic the learning curve sorts it out. It is just that when I combined an Olympus body with several Panasonics bodies for specifically continuous still capture theatre work with dress rehearsal that having one body with a completely unfamiliar interface was a significant chore I could do without.

Strangely I did not have this difficulty when combining Canon dslr interface with the Panasonic one for some reason. But I had been doing this type of work with Canon dslr bodies for years previously.

This is unlikely to be an issue other than where swapping bodies in a moving production where I don’t want to miss a moment and only get one chance at it.

There are limited circumstances where this can be an issue - but if they apply as it has with my needs then sticking with one consistent interface that applies between a range of bodies is what has become a necessity for me. Even Panasonic moves some of their controls between some models which requires remembering but it is not a whole new way of doing things like Olympus offers. That said - the front and back wheels, the grip, and the shutter button of the E-M1 are excellently laid out. The rest I am not so sure about.

It is a pity that camera settings /interface could not be individually tweaked . I can see why the makers would not support it but an open source ability to optimise performance . Would be most welcome , I used a number of the video hacks for my GH2 that made significant differences. Outside m43 across brands you can expect more substantial differences in software but it would have been nice if within the m43 "family" things were more consistent .

Tom Caldwell · Jun 17, 2020

AdamT said:
Adam-T said:

J

I have pinned down the contenders to the G9,E-M1II ,E-M1III and believe it or not the plastic fantastic E-M5 III. The G9 and E-MI II are at a great price

Click to expand...

especially the EM12 used at around £600 , there are a few around so take your pick

The G9 needs to be tried ,

Agreed, but thee are places in the world where try before buy or easy return if not happy is just not available. When the closest store that carries the object of attention might be 300 kms away. So some response is necessary from a confirmed fan

Adam-T said:
the Shutter button on its own was a deal killer for me,

The shutter button is very light and can lead to some shots being made out of soft presses - it will surely happen during a test in-store. Mine was delivered to a local store but I had to order it sight unseen and basically was obliged to buy it. It took me ten minutes for my finger memory to get the right tactile memory fo the shutter button. It is quite achievable and if it killed any deals that is regrettable as it might show a short attention span.

Adam-T said:
it`s so featherlight that maintaining the half press for focus recompose or waiting for the moment isn`t easy as there`s almost no travel , also this means that you can take loads of pics of your feet just coming out of review using the button ... an ex Colleague got an open box one and like a lot of old working hacks, bags the cam switched on between shoots (reporter bag)

He does seem like a working hack - the switch on response delay is not huge. I have experienced an occasional forget to switch off - usually results in a flat battery - I did not think that it was a badge of honour as a working hack ....

Adam-T said:
he`s an "S" mode guy and ended up with over SIXTY shots of the inside of his bag (black frames) through the day due to it brushing the shutter button (if it had been in A mode, it`d have suffered a lot of very long exposures)

I can hardly believe it ....

Adam-T said:
-. then there`s the EVF , it`s too big for the poor quality optics and ends up Pincushioned and you get blurry corners if you peer around to see all the scene

Rated “the best evf ever” in the dpreview test - even with the pincushion - and you can always change the evf display to eliminate this if that were a bother. So how could the GX8 evf be better?

Adam-T said:
- as for my Collegue I`ve Flogged him my tatty GX8 as an interim as he hates Olympus on principal , he`ll probably get a G90 when they drop to a sensible level , its Button and EVF are normal and he never does Video either

If the G9 had the EVF and shutter button of the GX8 (or GH5) I`d own one now as otherwise its a fantastic camera with state of the art ergonomics

There you are - no issues

I cleaned up the knowledge base of the shutter button and the evf

Must be “best camera ever” but I don’t like the side hinged lcd - almost a deal killer for me - but I can live with it if I pretend it is a fixed lcd like my old dslr bodies had.

Adam-T said:
- Single AF is DSLR fast , C-AF is wobbly as everyone says but it does work , Dunno about Video that`s for RX series cams here .

you may not be bothered by the button and EVF and love both like many do but it stopped it dead in my tracks and I ended up with an EM1-II which as a Pan-Fan goes against the grain for me ,,,,,, as it happens, I always intended to get the 12-40 Pro again anyway . the EM1-2 has grown on me to point of actually liking it and the IBIS is state of the art , the EVF is an old LCD but apparentlly refreshes better than OLEDs do and it doen`t try to give me migraines like the G9 did though

I`d not buy a plastic Peril , it feels like a cheap Fuji XA series and exactly the same as the EM10-III (which also took a big dive in build qyality) and unless you desperately need a cam which is light , I`d avoid it . I`d pay current price for a G90 before that

Try a G9 , if it doesn`t make you want to throw it in the river after the first day - Job done

Job done ... but if I was into river throwing I might have done so after experiencing the first ten minutes of that trigger happy shutter button. But once over the hump I now actually prefer the super sensitive shutter button. Makes soft-press then capture so much smoother.

Adam-T said:
.. if so then go for a used EM1-II - there are loads of Minters around for around £600

that`s my take |Jim anyway

Tom Caldwell · Jun 17, 2020

Just try the Olympus bodies if you can. They slot so nicely into ones hand.

Then set yourself a camera adjustment task. Mmm - if you are steeped in “Panasonic” - how do I do that?

I only know the E-M1 so things might might now be changed. Why does a panasonic person find this camera weird to use?

The arrow keys only move the cursor about the lcd - Panasonic cameras can be set to do that but default to doing useful things that are labelled. Until the G9 whose arrow keys can of course be made do anything.

Olympus ones (at least on the E-M1) only move the cursor or a very few other things. I had a momentary brainwave to try and make the arrow keys on the E-M1 replicate the way that they default on the Panasonic bodies - couldn’t be done.

Then there are the “Menu”, “OK” and “Info” Buttons where Panasonic manages with just one Menu button and also makes the “Delete” button double up quite seamlessly.

The SCP is a great idea and liked the dedicated button to toggle it (Panasonic badly needs this facility for their version) but then the accurate double tap to invoke the tiny hit points of the over-crowded screen was harder to use than the less crowded and more responsive touch interface that Panasonic provided for its equivalent.

When you use a MF lens Panasonic “annoyingly” nags you to check by reminding you what focal length is selected for the IBIS (Easily cancelled by soft press). On Olympus you are supposed to remember every time you change your MF lens - not so bad if your memory works better than mine - but then there is multiple button jiggle to change the IBIS focal length which is unduly complex compared to the way Panasonic and all other cameras I know that provide IBIS do it.

So much so that this particular idiot was amazed for months on actually how good the Olympus IBIS was that it knew how to reset the IBIS even for dumb MF lenses ....

No matter how hard I try I cannot get the display of my Olympus lcd to show exactly what I wish to see.

The video button re-purposed gives me direct ISO and Fn1? Cannot remember (my fault, my custom settings, ... pressing Fn2 twice magnifies the screen and how do I set focus peaking on? It does not seem to be working ....

Of course if I only ever used Olympus camera bodies I would have learned all these little eccentricities off by heart and there could be no better way to use a camera.

Therefore the Olympus way of doing things is not really that bad but it is so different that I don’t really care to mix and match camera bodies with those made by Panasonic whose interface methods seem more logical to my brain.

But picking up my E-M1 again and I am in love as to how it fits into my hand - now to actually operate the thing ....

If I only use the E-M1 and no other camera in conjunction with it and have taken my patience pills beforehand we get along fine - it really is a fine camera.

James Stirling · Jun 17, 2020

Tom Caldwell said:
Just try the Olympus bodies if you can. They slot so nicely into ones hand.

Then set yourself a camera adjustment task. Mmm - if you are steeped in “Panasonic” - how do I do that?

I only know the E-M1 so things might might now be changed. Why does a panasonic person find this camera weird to use?

The arrow keys only move the cursor about the lcd - Panasonic cameras can be set to do that but default to doing useful things that are labelled. Until the G9 whose arrow keys can of course be made do anything.

Olympus ones (at least on the E-M1) only move the cursor or a very few other things. I had a momentary brainwave to try and make the arrow keys on the E-M1 replicate the way that they default on the Panasonic bodies - couldn’t be done.

Then there are the “Menu”, “OK” and “Info” Buttons where Panasonic manages with just one Menu button and also makes the “Delete” button double up quite seamlessly.

The SCP is a great idea and liked the dedicated button to toggle it (Panasonic badly needs this facility for their version) but then the accurate double tap to invoke the tiny hit points of the over-crowded screen was harder to use than the less crowded and more responsive touch interface that Panasonic provided for its equivalent.

When you use a MF lens Panasonic “annoyingly” nags you to check by reminding you what focal length is selected for the IBIS (Easily cancelled by soft press). On Olympus you are supposed to remember every time you change your MF lens - not so bad if your memory works better than mine - but then there is multiple button jiggle to change the IBIS focal length which is unduly complex compared to the way Panasonic and all other cameras I know that provide IBIS do it.

So much so that this particular idiot was amazed for months on actually how good the Olympus IBIS was that it knew how to reset the IBIS even for dumb MF lenses ....

No matter how hard I try I cannot get the display of my Olympus lcd to show exactly what I wish to see.

The video button re-purposed gives me direct ISO and Fn1? Cannot remember (my fault, my custom settings, ... pressing Fn2 twice magnifies the screen and how do I set focus peaking on? It does not seem to be working ....

Of course if I only ever used Olympus camera bodies I would have learned all these little eccentricities off by heart and there could be no better way to use a camera.

Therefore the Olympus way of doing things is not really that bad but it is so different that I don’t really care to mix and match camera bodies with those made by Panasonic whose interface methods seem more logical to my brain.

But picking up my E-M1 again and I am in love as to how it fits into my hand - now to actually operate the thing ....

If I only use the E-M1 and no other camera in conjunction with it and have taken my patience pills beforehand we get along fine - it really is a fine camera.

I am due to familiarity drawn to the G9 Tom . But perhaps taking a jump to Oly may be an interesting challenge. I had the E-M1 briefly before the video bug got me fully into Panasonic . In truth my typical shooting is sedate enough that I can get used to menus etc as I really don't need to deep dive that often. Ergonomics are another thing all together and this is an area where I do struggle to adapt .

The Sony FF models were for me a PITA in hand right from the get go and despite adding a second model and having them [ still have the A7rII ] for a couple of years this grew to be intolerable and it took a lot of pleasure out of using them . Thank goodness for adapters the TZE-01 allows me to uses my favourite Sony lenses on a body I far prefer. Who knows given Panasonic's odd naming conventions perhaps the rumoured G100 will be a contender . As a video shooter the poor IBIS on the GX8 is my main gripe , plenty of options and plenty to think about

It is only really m43 that offers such a diversity of bodies shapes , sizes abilities with Nikon , Sony or Canon FF at least all you really have to think about is what MP count you fancy

jalywol · Jun 17, 2020

James Stirling said:
DLBlack said:

You already have very good cameras. If you can not decide between several other cameras then wait. In time you will come to a conclusion and then buy it when it becomes clear. If you just can not wait go to a store and try out the ones you are considering. Remember there might be a new Panasonic released later this year maybe even an new Olympus.

Click to expand...

That is sound advice , I have had the GX8 since it came out in 2015 and it is one of my most loved cameras ever. I do miss not having decent IBIS for video. The pixel shift thing is more of a would be nice rather than a must have. Plus no matter how long I wait the GX8 true update will be announced the day after I buy the new camera I am just finishing my tea before getting back to fence building so plenty time to think it through. But your advice is sage

Late to the party, but my 2 cents....

I agree with DLBlack. Wait.

Here's my little(?) recent revelation:

Bought an RP and a few adapted lenses a year ago. Was going to keep the GX8 and a couple of lenses (100-300mm, mostly) for long tele, and definitely keep the GM5 and kit lens for portability. Sold off all my other M43 lenses, and, after thinking about consolidating even further, decided to try the Canon M50, which would enable me to use my adapted EF 70-300mm (not L) and cover almost the same focal range as the Panasonic 100-300mm. Doing that would keep down the amount of gear to carry, and keep the lens options open for both RP and M.

So I did it. Got an M50, and a few native lenses too. BUT. There are a couple of nice native lenses in the M line, but the M50 (and definitely not earlier models) S-AF is not as fast or precise as that on the GX8. There is NO native normal range tele that is useable; forget about actually good. They have a great wide zoom, which almost makes up for that, but... And no native long tele (but I knew that going in). The sensor is quite good, though.

I kept meaning to put the GX8 up for sale, but never quite got around to it. So, when flower season started this year, I decided to pull out the GX8 and see how it stacked up against the M50 (and an M6 I had acquired also on a wicked Black Friday fire sale

)

Well, you know. After arguing with the M50 (I actually like the M6 better, but it's painfully slow to focus, so...), and getting some decent shots, I popped the GX8 and 100-300mm out of its box, where I had stowed it prior to selling it, and stuck on an extension tube, and shot away.

When I downloaded the M50 shots, there were some nice ones, and lovely color gradients in them. But, they were very...average. No grabbers. The GX8 shots? Damn, some shots just jumped right off the screen at me. Okay dokay....sigh....

So, after about 8 months with the M system, I decided to box the whole kit and kaboodle up and put 'em up for sale. For now the RP stays, as FF does do different things than M43, though.

Now, what does that have to do with your dilemma?

I really like both the GM5 and GX8, still. But, none, zero, of the current Panny bodies does anything for me that would inspire me to "upgrade". And, from experience, I find the Oly UI less than ideal for me, so I have no interest at all in their bodies. Anything else Panasonic has out there is an incremental change from the GX8, with some better and some worse attributes, none of which matter to me enough for me to take the plunge. Of course, I also do not do video, so since that is an issue for you, your decision might be more complicated than mine...but...

What would make me upgrade my GX8? A genuinely more advanced sensor, in a body that's not bigger than the GX8, and an EVF on par with that in the GX8. Added to that, of course, the low-shock mechanical shutter and better IBIS, and I would be all in. However, until I see that camera in the flesh, if it ever appears, I honestly don't think I will be updating the GX8.

So, given that, and also given how much you like your GX8, I would say.....WAIT. Unless you have a camera failure, or desperately need the video upgrade, just wait.

--J

James Stirling · Jun 17, 2020

jalywol said:
James Stirling said:

DLBlack said:

You already have very good cameras. If you can not decide between several other cameras then wait. In time you will come to a conclusion and then buy it when it becomes clear. If you just can not wait go to a store and try out the ones you are considering. Remember there might be a new Panasonic released later this year maybe even an new Olympus.

Click to expand...

That is sound advice , I have had the GX8 since it came out in 2015 and it is one of my most loved cameras ever. I do miss not having decent IBIS for video. The pixel shift thing is more of a would be nice rather than a must have. Plus no matter how long I wait the GX8 true update will be announced the day after I buy the new camera I am just finishing my tea before getting back to fence building so plenty time to think it through. But your advice is sage

Click to expand...

Late to the party, but my 2 cents....

I agree with DLBlack. Wait.

Here's my little(?) recent revelation:

Bought an RP and a few adapted lenses a year ago. Was going to keep the GX8 and a couple of lenses (100-300mm, mostly) for long tele, and definitely keep the GM5 and kit lens for portability. Sold off all my other M43 lenses, and, after thinking about consolidating even further, decided to try the Canon M50, which would enable me to use my adapted EF 70-300mm (not L) and cover almost the same focal range as the Panasonic 100-300mm. Doing that would keep down the amount of gear to carry, and keep the lens options open for both RP and M.

So I did it. Got an M50, and a few native lenses too. BUT. There are a couple of nice native lenses in the M line, but the M50 (and definitely not earlier models) S-AF is not as fast or precise as that on the GX8. There is NO native normal range tele that is useable; forget about actually good. They have a great wide zoom, which almost makes up for that, but... And no native long tele (but I knew that going in). The sensor is quite good, though.

I kept meaning to put the GX8 up for sale, but never quite got around to it. So, when flower season started this year, I decided to pull out the GX8 and see how it stacked up against the M50 (and an M6 I had acquired also on a wicked Black Friday fire sale )

Well, you know. After arguing with the M50 (I actually like the M6 better, but it's painfully slow to focus, so...), and getting some decent shots, I popped the GX8 and 100-300mm out of its box, where I had stowed it prior to selling it, and stuck on an extension tube, and shot away.

When I downloaded the M50 shots, there were some nice ones, and lovely color gradients in them. But, they were very...average. No grabbers. The GX8 shots? Damn, some shots just jumped right off the screen at me. Okay dokay....sigh....

So, after about 8 months with the M system, I decided to box the whole kit and kaboodle up and put 'em up for sale. For now the RP stays, as FF does do different things than M43, though.

Now, what does that have to do with your dilemma?

I really like both the GM5 and GX8, still. But, none, zero, of the current Panny bodies does anything for me that would inspire me to "upgrade". And, from experience, I find the Oly UI less than ideal for me, so I have no interest at all in their bodies. Anything else Panasonic has out there is an incremental change from the GX8, with some better and some worse attributes, none of which matter to me enough for me to take the plunge. Of course, I also do not do video, so since that is an issue for you, your decision might be more complicated than mine...but...

What would make me upgrade my GX8? A genuinely more advanced sensor, in a body that's not bigger than the GX8, and an EVF on par with that in the GX8. Added to that, of course, the low-shock mechanical shutter and better IBIS, and I would be all in. However, until I see that camera in the flesh, if it ever appears, I honestly don't think I will be updating the GX8.

So, given that, and also given how much you like your GX8, I would say.....WAIT. Unless you have a camera failure, or desperately need the video upgrade, just wait.

All sound smart advice ,my main gripe with my otherwise { for me

} near perfect GX8 is the IBIS I do a decent amount of video and it is a bit of a disadvantage in thate area . It is hardly a matter of life death , really only a desire for a better performance mainly in this one area. I will think about it for a while. The problem these days is finding a bad camera

I have decided that my FF kit will be dedicated to landscape and macro , I am waiting to see what nikon can do with their upcoming { who knows when

} 14-24mm Z lens . The 14-24mm g along with my wee Panasonic 20mm are my most loved and most used lenses . i have had the 14-24mm since it came out in 2007 and it was a big jump in UWA at the time. So given the larger mount, mirrorless and 13yrs newer tech I have very high hopes for the z version I have the 90mm Sony macro from my dabble in Sony land and it works wonderfully on the TZE-01

So m43 will be my general use for everything else including video. Most of my lenses like the 12-35 & 35-100mm F/2.8 pair, 14-140 and 100-300mm are all first gen versions. So i may take the opportunity to rationalise my lens options at the same time. I tend to put things off , I still have half a dozen Sony FF bits to sell off they sit on the shelf next to me waiting for some attention since the Z7 came out . I appreciate yours and everyone else's take on the matter lots of well thought out pros and cons and a few wee snippets that I had not noticed in the reviews.

--
Jim Stirling:
Wittgenstein : Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
Feel free to tinker with any images I post

Tom Caldwell · Jun 17, 2020

The Sony A7R that I bought infuriated me with its interface. The E-M1 is really benign and almost cuddly compared to it.

Since I posted the last comments I went back into the menu system of my E-M1 and figured out where I had put the focus peaking set button - not set always on or off like in the Panasonic menu system. And also the shoulder Fn1 button I have set to re-centre the wandering cursor to centre point as I am not used to arrow keys always moving it. Fn1 only works in AF mode and I had a MF lens attached to the camera body and had forgotten what it was supposed to be doing.

I have no idea if the IBIS is currently set to accommodate a 100mm focal length and I will have to remember the button wheel dance to check and set - there is no way I can look at a reference on the lcd to see what focal length the IBIS is currently set to.

Update: I had half remembered it was press “Info” and spin a wheel, but it is not working - maybe press another button? Maybe I should write it on the back of my hand in indelible ink?

I am sure a full time Olympus user user will set me right - some of them must use MF lenses and need to change their IBIS level

Meanwhile - it has been a while and the handshake to do this is not obvious to slow thinking folk like me.

Half the issue with the Sony is that I knew the user interface was lousy because I had previously tried it and I simply thought that I could get used to it. I had become desperate to find a way to use my EF mount lenses on something that was not a frequently updated expensive Canon dslr body. But no way have I ever become used to it - I try it again every now and then to see if I can bear it - it must be a Scottish thing to have such a short fuse with poor interfaces ....

When I drive a different vehicle I adapt to where all the controls are in minutes - why should it be so hard with a camera body made by another brand?

And that was before I found out how terrible the A7R low light performance was and the fact that it died a complete death with my EF mount lenses and Metabones adapters when the light was less than perfect. Only so-slow in better light and I only found out later that this was all down to Sony CDAF performance - the A7RII PDAF was apparently much better with adapted EF lenses but I did not get that far.

I found my NEX6 nicer to use and more EF lens friendly than the later A7R body I bought with expectations that it might have been superior - it wasn’t.

Brian Caldwell gave Sony backhanded praise on a forum by saying that the Metabones AF speeds on the A7RII were now almost as good as they were on M4/3 bodies

Luckily Panasonic CDAF is much better than Sony CDAF as the EF mount lenses work acceptably well on my Panasonic bodies - even with the GM5. Sony surely needed PDAF to get them out of their CDAF hole.

Buying options ?

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