if you are new to m4/3s read this

Ah, I feel better now. Not that I disagree with Trevor in any way - but I tend to pinpoint focus and recompose. Maybe it is because I am slack, maybe it is about the type of photographs I try to take, maybe I am still somewhat unreconstructed after years away from a dslr.

It works for me but I will pay attention to what Trevor recommends and see if that can also be useful.

My main “point” with multipoint is having multiple points in focus when I really want one specific point of best focus. But I do appreciate the raft of mirrorless tools at my disposal and practice constantly. I listen to advice, try to whinge gracefully, and am always willing to learn. Thanks.
 
What stirred this message in me is yet more threads about m4/3s focusing. I have been responding to m4/3s question for a few years saying avoid single point focus but still people pile in thinking "what does he know, I've been using single point for ever, I know it's the right way to go". My suggestion has always been start with custom multi, it works.
I have to disagree.

The old school DSLR user sticks with "center point only" due to the extra sensitivity (crosstype) in center. They also tend to use focus-recompose technique.

I always use single point focus (or eye detection in portrait shot) in mirrorless, only difference is I am no longer tied in the center as mirrorless uses PDAF which usually has more points and they all have the same high sensitivity unlike some older DSLR.

Multi is nothing new, most DSLR can do 5/9 points or more. Problem is multi can never be as accurate as single point when critical focus is required. Think nailing focus on person's eye in a portrait shot.

Imo single point is KING in both DSLR and mirrorless. Personally i would never ever use multi letting the camera to pick where to focus in the cluster which often result in loose mediocre result.
My post was instigated by people saying exactly the opposite, they have trouble with single point on m4/3s
If they have trouble with single point on m43 then I'd say it's most likely due to the poor and slow implementation of CDAF on most low to midrange Olympus/Panasonic cameras.

Using multi might get the camera to focus on something or somewhere, but it doesn't make it any better nor accurate than single point on DSLR.

I'd rather have the camera hunt and fail instead of having the camera focus randomly on things I don't want ;)
I'm not saying that it doesn't work only that if you come from a DSLR it may not work as you are used to and you may want to look at the strengths of other methods. The point about the custom multi isn't that it is new only that my and other people experiences suggest that it can be a good solution in many cases on m4/3s.
 
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I never had trouble with single point AF on a CDAF body and never found CAF to work well unless the subject was changing distance from the camera very slowly.

PDAF CAF works great from the EM1.2 firmware version 3.0 forward.
 
If they have trouble with single point on m43 then I'd say it's most likely due to the poor and slow implementation of CDAF on most low to midrange Olympus/Panasonic cameras.
My E-M5, E-M10, E-M10II, PEN-F, G3, and GX7II (GX85) all have great, fast, accurate CDAF. I was very surprised in April 2012 when I bought my G3 (my first m4/3) at how fast and accurate the CDAF was. In most cases better than my various Canon, Sony, and Konica Minolta DSLRs.

I always use a single AF point and S-AF.

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
 
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But then low and behold, a brand new camera was born.

It had a certain 4/3 aspect sensor that accepted a certain standard native lens and there never was a mirror in the design.
Um, you know not of what you speak. The micro four-thirds standard came from the four thirds standard which very much had a mirror:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Thirds_system

It was digital from the get-go and not based on any existing film standard, but the name comes from the old video tube sizing system--the imaging area of a Four Thirds sensor is equal to that of a video camera tube of 4/3 inch diameter. It has nothing to do with the aspect ratio--that is just a coincidence.


I stand corrected.

The Four Thirds sensor was designed around an earlier DSLR, but all DSLR's are expensive converted SLR's by design.



MFT was a brand new concept.

Make an image taking box that would accept a brand new native lens built around the fairly large 4/3 sensor.

It would operate like a small sensor digital camera that only used live view.

The flapping mirror was never in the process of the design.

But a MFT camera box, would have built in every adjustment possible in a digital camera, plus it would accept every 35mm film lens using an adapter in addition to brand new native lenses.



It was intended to be a consumer product sold by the millions.

It was intended that every camera manufacturer could join and develop a MFT complaint system where the MFT lenses from all manufacturers would work on any MFT camera from any other manufacturer.



And most of all, this brand new system had to directly compete on image quality with APC and FF sensor cameras, without using a mirror. It would never have the theoretical advantages that come from using a larger sensor, so the first gadget had to get it all down right the first time, and arrive full grown on the market.



So to further explain the mature status that MFT cameras represented, on the day I unpacked my Olympus PL-1, I already owned a Canon AE-1 film SLR, and a Canon EOS 350D, and a Canon SX 150 IS, and a smart phone that also took great photographs.



And then mother of Gezzus lookie at what this little camera will do, the first shots!











































Holy Sly Old Guy Parson, I did cry!

The very first MFT cameras came on the scene so wonderful, all anybody has to do is put on the lens and point it like a smart phone at something and a near DSLR quality photograph magically is created.

I could upgrade to an OMD M5 II that was a thousand dollars new, and a 12-40 Olympus Pro lens that was also a thousand dollars new, and still take those beautiful pictures, maybe a little more beautiful in poor light. But in good light, my photos have that same "Olympus Look" they always have.

















If you pixel peep the newer MFT camera images I'll bet they pixel peep better than the old ones and worse than the latest full frame DSLR's.

But the first MFT cameras had to arrive where they worked, to make near DSLR images using interchangeable lenses on the same concept as a point and shoot.

They got it right, the first time.





























--
Humansville is a town in the Missouri Ozarks
 

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Lovely pictures Humansvillian
 
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Ok ,i did some tests this morning between my sony a7r2 and my em1mk2. if you want the smooth colour transitions to match FF on your m43 cameras set piture to neutral contrast to -2 sat to +1 and graduation to normal. there you go you will capture the best iq in jpeg to match the beautiful tones of FF. i used to do this years ago on my pentax k7 but never tried it on my m43 cameras ans was wondering why my images looked so much better on my new sony FF enjoy the new settings. these settings also work for video as well.

Don
 
Choice between mirror and EVF has nothing to do with IQ. That's sensor, lens, light, camera settings, photographer.

Mirror shows you exposure you already know. EVF shows you exposure the camera will record.
 
Agree mostly with what said. My pet peeve with some DSLR to m4/3 requests was the ability to do exposure compensation in manual mode with auto ISO on. To me! this must be the most oxymoron thing to do. Why shoot in manual mode then?
Manual exposure mode allows you to select the exact shutter speed and aperture that you want, and with auto-ISO enabled exposure compensation effectively allows you to adjust ISO in a more convenient way. This obviously depends on whether the camera in question allows you to do this and whether it is more convenient than simply adjusting ISO.

I have used this very effectively in a theatre environment where lighting changes rapidly and unpredictably - most of the time normal exposure (M mode, Auto-ISO enabled) works fine, but if you need to very quickly change the exposure then it is handy to have the ability to do so via EC.
I fail to see what you are leading to. Both of my E-M1 I and II don't event have EC (+/-) dedicated button; my DSLR E-3 and E-5 do have them.

On either E-M1 bodies, in M-Mode, with Live View Boost set to "Off", Lever-1 is the EC adjustment. The back wheel adjusts the shutter speed and the front adjust the aperture. I you rock back and forth either of these wheels, the view in your EVF or on the back LCD changes from dark to bright as the exposure is compensated according the the rapid light changing condition, very conveniently. I can't think of a situation, where I need a dedicated (+/-) EC function.

If you switch to Lever-2, rocking back and forth the front wheel will change the ISO which in turn shows your LCD or EVF going from dark to bright or vice versa. The front wheel in this case, is my (+/-) button. The new E-M1X and E-M1 III do have the dedicated ISO button, so that is kind of third EC option in M-Mode.

I can only speak of OMD m43 bodies and maybe that is where you and I don't see the common ground.
I'm trying to explain why it is sometimes convenient (even necessary) to be able to apply EC when shooting in M mode with auto-ISO enabled.

Example: Imagine I am shooting dancers on a theatre stage where the lighting is uneven across the stage and also changing brightness continuously. Because light levels are generally on the low side I want to use an aperture of f2.8, and I want to use a shutter speed of 1/400sec to avoid motion blur of the dancers. With auto-ISO enabled I am happy that my exposure will be correct all the time, even if light levels change rapidly. These settings might be perfectly good for 95% of the time, BUT if a dancer comes on stage wearing a highly reflective white costume I might find that the costume causes over exposure. In this instance I would like to dial in -1EV compensation without having to change aperture or shutter speed (or having to revert to setting ISO manually). With my EM10 I cannot do this because it does not have a way of applying EC while in Manual mode with auto-ISO. With some other cameras I can dial in EC because they do have a separate function button (Nikon) or dial (Fujifilm) that allows me to apply EC.

I hope this makes more sense to you now.

--
Jacques
apple-and-eve.com
 
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Agree mostly with what said. My pet peeve with some DSLR to m4/3 requests was the ability to do exposure compensation in manual mode with auto ISO on. To me! this must be the most oxymoron thing to do. Why shoot in manual mode then?
Manual exposure mode allows you to select the exact shutter speed and aperture that you want, and with auto-ISO enabled exposure compensation effectively allows you to adjust ISO in a more convenient way. This obviously depends on whether the camera in question allows you to do this and whether it is more convenient than simply adjusting ISO.

I have used this very effectively in a theatre environment where lighting changes rapidly and unpredictably - most of the time normal exposure (M mode, Auto-ISO enabled) works fine, but if you need to very quickly change the exposure then it is handy to have the ability to do so via EC.
I fail to see what you are leading to. Both of my E-M1 I and II don't event have EC (+/-) dedicated button; my DSLR E-3 and E-5 do have them.

On either E-M1 bodies, in M-Mode, with Live View Boost set to "Off", Lever-1 is the EC adjustment. The back wheel adjusts the shutter speed and the front adjust the aperture. I you rock back and forth either of these wheels, the view in your EVF or on the back LCD changes from dark to bright as the exposure is compensated according the the rapid light changing condition, very conveniently. I can't think of a situation, where I need a dedicated (+/-) EC function.

If you switch to Lever-2, rocking back and forth the front wheel will change the ISO which in turn shows your LCD or EVF going from dark to bright or vice versa. The front wheel in this case, is my (+/-) button. The new E-M1X and E-M1 III do have the dedicated ISO button, so that is kind of third EC option in M-Mode.

I can only speak of OMD m43 bodies and maybe that is where you and I don't see the common ground.
I'm trying to explain why it is sometimes convenient (even necessary) to be able to apply EC when shooting in M mode with auto-ISO enabled.

Example: Imagine I am shooting dancers on a theatre stage where the lighting is uneven across the stage and also changing brightness continuously. Because light levels are generally on the low side I want to use an aperture of f2.8, and I want to use a shutter speed of 1/400sec to avoid motion blur of the dancers. With auto-ISO enabled I am happy that my exposure will be correct all the time, even if light levels change rapidly. These settings might be perfectly good for 95% of the time, BUT if a dancer comes on stage wearing a highly reflective white costume I might find that the costume causes over exposure. In this instance I would like to dial in -1EV compensation without having to change aperture or shutter speed (or having to revert to setting ISO manually). With my EM10 I cannot do this because it does not have a way of applying EC while in Manual mode with auto-ISO. With some other cameras I can dial in EC because they do have a separate function button (Nikon) or dial (Fujifilm) that allows me to apply EC.

I hope this makes more sense to you now.
Its why i love it on my em12 for dance concerts I have the front button set up for it. and my new a7r2 has a separate dial which will be used for the exact reason.

Don

--
Olympus EM1mk2, Sony A7r2
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/9412035244
past toys. k100d, k10d,k7,fz5,fz150,500uz,canon G9, Olympus xz1 em5mk1 em5mk2
 
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Its why i love it on my em12 for dance concerts I have the front button set up for it. and my new a7r2 has a separate dial which will be used for the exact reason.

Don
I'm considering an EM5 iii and am happy to see it has a button for EC. The Nikon Z cameras make it even easier, if a native Z lens is mounted you can reconfigure the focus ring to act as an EC dial.
 
Its why i love it on my em12 for dance concerts I have the front button set up for it. and my new a7r2 has a separate dial which will be used for the exact reason.

Don
I'm considering an EM5 iii and am happy to see it has a button for EC. The Nikon Z cameras make it even easier, if a native Z lens is mounted you can reconfigure the focus ring to act as an EC dial.
thats a cool feature. id love that, nice and fast .

Don
 
Agree mostly with what said. My pet peeve with some DSLR to m4/3 requests was the ability to do exposure compensation in manual mode with auto ISO on. To me! this must be the most oxymoron thing to do. Why shoot in manual mode then?
Manual exposure mode allows you to select the exact shutter speed and aperture that you want, and with auto-ISO enabled exposure compensation effectively allows you to adjust ISO in a more convenient way. This obviously depends on whether the camera in question allows you to do this and whether it is more convenient than simply adjusting ISO.

I have used this very effectively in a theatre environment where lighting changes rapidly and unpredictably - most of the time normal exposure (M mode, Auto-ISO enabled) works fine, but if you need to very quickly change the exposure then it is handy to have the ability to do so via EC.
I fail to see what you are leading to. Both of my E-M1 I and II don't event have EC (+/-) dedicated button; my DSLR E-3 and E-5 do have them.

On either E-M1 bodies, in M-Mode, with Live View Boost set to "Off", Lever-1 is the EC adjustment. The back wheel adjusts the shutter speed and the front adjust the aperture. I you rock back and forth either of these wheels, the view in your EVF or on the back LCD changes from dark to bright as the exposure is compensated according the the rapid light changing condition, very conveniently. I can't think of a situation, where I need a dedicated (+/-) EC function.

If you switch to Lever-2, rocking back and forth the front wheel will change the ISO which in turn shows your LCD or EVF going from dark to bright or vice versa. The front wheel in this case, is my (+/-) button. The new E-M1X and E-M1 III do have the dedicated ISO button, so that is kind of third EC option in M-Mode.

I can only speak of OMD m43 bodies and maybe that is where you and I don't see the common ground.
I'm trying to explain why it is sometimes convenient (even necessary) to be able to apply EC when shooting in M mode with auto-ISO enabled.

Example: Imagine I am shooting dancers on a theatre stage where the lighting is uneven across the stage and also changing brightness continuously. Because light levels are generally on the low side I want to use an aperture of f2.8, and I want to use a shutter speed of 1/400sec to avoid motion blur of the dancers. With auto-ISO enabled I am happy that my exposure will be correct all the time, even if light levels change rapidly. These settings might be perfectly good for 95% of the time, BUT if a dancer comes on stage wearing a highly reflective white costume I might find that the costume causes over exposure. In this instance I would like to dial in -1EV compensation without having to change aperture or shutter speed (or having to revert to setting ISO manually). With my EM10 I cannot do this because it does not have a way of applying EC while in Manual mode with auto-ISO. With some other cameras I can dial in EC because they do have a separate function button (Nikon) or dial (Fujifilm) that allows me to apply EC.
Well explained Jacques. The same can apply to street shooting when light levels and backgrounds are constantly changing. If find that it's a feature that's not really understood by many until they come across a circumstance where they realise it would have been beneficial. That's how I discovered it.
I hope this makes more sense to you now.

--
Jacques
apple-and-eve.com
 
Well explained Jacques. The same can apply to street shooting when light levels and backgrounds are constantly changing. If find that it's a feature that's not really understood by many until they come across a circumstance where they realise it would have been beneficial. That's how I discovered it.
I have to admit that I initially failed to see the value of having EV compensation in manual mode, but once I got to use it I quickly realised the value of having it. Now I use it very often.
 
There is a leaked boardroom meeting (boss with employee) about Depth From Defocus compared to Canons dual pixel autofocus.

Thank god i chose the em12 :-) video af is first class.

Don
Good for you Don. I wish I could afford an e-m1 ii or iii or even the g9, but I cant. Still at only 49 focus points with my gx85. And you know, the autofocus DOES deviate with only 49 focus points, not so with 121 or 255 focus points.

Gonna wait anyway until that sony 47 megapixel m43 sensor appears in a panny or oly. :)

Cheers,
 
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After a few minutes of this I felt like I'd rather have my toenails pulled out.
 
Gonna wait anyway until that sony 47 megapixel m43 sensor appears in a panny or oly. :)
Unfortunately, Poe's Law has spread to photography and I have no idea if you are joking. Is this something that is actually in the works? If so, it would be terrible. The amount of sensor area sacrificed to the inactive "gutter" between photosites would increase by over 50%. And even with perfect glass, this resolution would be wasted for any f-number larger than 2.4.

And once it exists, there's no going back. All the new m4/3 cameras will have it.
 

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