Kodak DCS series

SiriusB

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Reading up on the impressive history of Kodak's DCS camera series - how did Kodak manage to go so wrong with digital? 6 MP DSLR in 1995 (!!), 14 MP DSLR in 2002. Before the Nikon D1, Kodak-Canon had the EOS D6000. How could Kodak go from leading the DSLR revolution in the 1990s to being out of the picture by ~2005?
 
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That is what happens when you only have old timers running the organization.
George Fisher joined Kodak in 1993, he was 53 at the time. He wasn't an "old timer", he simply ignored what Kodak stuff tried to tell him, people got buried in the hierarchy.
My reference to old timers was not about age but ways of thinking.
Wrong reference. You don't know what you are talking about, you are just applying clichés.
Kodak was strong in chemistry.
Kodak was very strong in digital technologies and in digital imaging applications.
But apparently not strong enough to keep up.
Wrong. Kodak advantage was lost due to complacency and hubris of the upper echelons, and due to mismanagement.
 
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That is what happens when you only have old timers running the organization.
George Fisher joined Kodak in 1993, he was 53 at the time. He wasn't an "old timer", he simply ignored what Kodak stuff tried to tell him, people got buried in the hierarchy.
My reference to old timers was not about age but ways of thinking.
Wrong reference. You don't know what you are talking about, you are just applying clichés.
Kodak was strong in chemistry.
Kodak was very strong in digital technologies and in digital imaging applications.
But apparently not strong enough to keep up.
Wrong. Kodak advantage was lost due to complacency and hubris of the upper echelons, and due to mismanagement.
Lack of vision caused the mismanagement. Old time thinking caused the lack of vision.

The exact same type of lack of vision with regards to the next steps in photography is happening right now before your very eyes.
 
Reading up on the impressive history of Kodak's DCS camera series - how did Kodak manage to go so wrong with digital? 6 MP DSLR in 1995 (!!), 14 MP DSLR in 2002. Before the Nikon D1, Kodak-Canon had the EOS D6000. How could Kodak go from leading the DSLR revolution in the 1990s to being out of the picture by ~2005?
It was a volatile time.

There were 4 big companies producing colour films at the turn of the century.

Kodak were the biggest, Fujifilm were probably the next most visible, then there was Konica (which also produced a lot of film for 'own brands') and Agfa.

Agfa were the first to go, followed by KonicaMinolta, who just decided to bail on analogue film (as well as digital photography) in favour of photocopiers.

Both Kodak and Fujifilm produced their own rebranded SLRs; In the end what separated Fujifilm and Kodak were probably a few risky calls on both sides - Fujifilm's came off, while Kodak's didn't. These have been volatile times, and a lot of very decent brands don't do photography anymore.
 
I agree. The point (that I missed) was more of brand dilution and market coverage. The pro/high end Kodak is still there. But the "other Kodak", the one making cameras, isn't doing much with the Kodak name. It might be a licensing "thing".
 
And it is still very viable. Excellent images and Kodak software, at the time, was really very good. Used it for years tethered to my MacBook Pro for portraiture.

Bad points? Weighed more than a Panzer tank. As long as I kept it on a tripod it was OK.

Terrible rear LCD screen. It barely let me know if I got the exposure right, and it ( the LCD ) had no dynamic range. I also needed 4 batteries to last an 8 hour day.

Below is a picture of it next to my Canon S95.....both very good cameras at the time.

I always said that if Kodak had bought out Nikon at that time ( kodak still had lots of $$$ ), they would have been a "dynamic duo."

 
That is what happens when you only have old timers running the organization.
George Fisher joined Kodak in 1993, he was 53 at the time. He wasn't an "old timer", he simply ignored what Kodak stuff tried to tell him, people got buried in the hierarchy.
My reference to old timers was not about age but ways of thinking.
Wrong reference. You don't know what you are talking about, you are just applying clichés.
Kodak was strong in chemistry.
Kodak was very strong in digital technologies and in digital imaging applications.
But apparently not strong enough to keep up.
Wrong. Kodak advantage was lost due to complacency and hubris of the upper echelons, and due to mismanagement.
Lack of vision caused the mismanagement.
Only the top management was not from Kodak.
Old time thinking caused the lack of vision.
You have any proof it was "old time thinking"? LOL
The exact same type of lack of vision with regards to the next steps in photography is happening right now before your very eyes.
That's what you think is happening.

Ciao.

--
http://www.libraw.org/
 
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... lack of vision with regards to the next steps in photography is happening right now before your very eyes.
Maybe you can point out some specific instances of lack of vision right now as opposed to very clear vision, but lack of interest in courting and serving a mass market.
 
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... lack of vision with regards to the next steps in photography is happening right now before your very eyes.
Maybe you can point out some specific instances of lack of vision right now as opposed to very clear vision, but lack of interest in courting and serving a mass market.
Right. Fisher invested more than $2 billion in R&D for digital imaging. The error was in target price point and specifications. They invested too early, business they built failed in the traditional market and also failed to find a new market.

Not to mention that there were some new managers that thought that Kodak is too big for their successful career and needs to be split into parts, so that each of them will be a CEO of an independent company.
 
... lack of vision with regards to the next steps in photography is happening right now before your very eyes.
Maybe you can point out some specific instances of lack of vision right now as opposed to very clear vision, but lack of interest in courting and serving a mass market.
Right. Fisher invested more than $2 billion in R&D for digital imaging. The error was in target price point and specifications. They invested too early, business they built failed in the traditional market and also failed to find a new market.

Not to mention that there were some new managers that thought that Kodak is too big for their successful career and needs to be split into parts, so that each of them will be a CEO of an independent company.
My point was that with many companies 'right now' (and not necessarily talking about Kodak) it's not feasible to just change something in order to avoid loss of business in a dramatically evolving environment, even when that evolution is obvious to management. Sometimes it's just inevitable that the mass market will move away toward things that are completely different - too different to make changing something an effective response.
 
Last edited:
... lack of vision with regards to the next steps in photography is happening right now before your very eyes.
Maybe you can point out some specific instances of lack of vision right now as opposed to very clear vision, but lack of interest in courting and serving a mass market.
Right. Fisher invested more than $2 billion in R&D for digital imaging. The error was in target price point and specifications. They invested too early, business they built failed in the traditional market and also failed to find a new market.

Not to mention that there were some new managers that thought that Kodak is too big for their successful career and needs to be split into parts, so that each of them will be a CEO of an independent company.
My point was that with many companies it's not feasible to just change something in order to avoid loss of business in a dramatically evolving environment, even when that evolution is obvious to management. Sometimes it's just inevitable that the mass market will move away toward things that are completely different - too different to make changing something an effective response.
Yes, I tried to say they invested without understanding what market will prefer, invested too early (what was it, installing 10,000 kiosks, for example), and specifications and price points were nearly impossible to change when it became clear what the market really prefers. "You Press the Button, We Do the Rest" was ill-applied. They tried to push the market in a direction that wasn't competitive with the direction suggested by Canon, Sony, and some others (home storage and home printing capabilities).
 
I agree. The point (that I missed) was more of brand dilution and market coverage. The pro/high end Kodak is still there. But the "other Kodak", the one making cameras, isn't doing much with the Kodak name. It might be a licensing "thing".
It's a well known fact not a possibilty.

http://jkiltd.com/Americas/

https://www.insideimaging.com.au/2013/jk-and-general-imaging-odd-bedfellows/

https://www.applianceretailer.com.a...risbane-kodak-cameras-back-australian-market/

Brief version : the cameras are made by Asia Optical n one of the Taiwanese OEM .
 
I agree. The point (that I missed) was more of brand dilution and market coverage. The pro/high end Kodak is still there. But the "other Kodak", the one making cameras, isn't doing much with the Kodak name. It might be a licensing "thing".
It's a well known fact not a possibilty.

http://jkiltd.com/Americas/

https://www.insideimaging.com.au/2013/jk-and-general-imaging-odd-bedfellows/

https://www.applianceretailer.com.a...risbane-kodak-cameras-back-australian-market/

Brief version : the cameras are made by Asia Optical n one of the Taiwanese OEM .
Thanks for bringing me up to speed. We've lost so many brands with the changeover to digital.
 
That is what happens when you only have old timers running the organization.
George Fisher joined Kodak in 1993, he was 53 at the time. He wasn't an "old timer", he simply ignored what Kodak stuff tried to tell him, people got buried in the hierarchy.
My reference to old timers was not about age but ways of thinking.
Wrong reference. You don't know what you are talking about, you are just applying clichés.
Kodak was strong in chemistry.
Kodak was very strong in digital technologies and in digital imaging applications.
But apparently not strong enough to keep up.
Wrong. Kodak advantage was lost due to complacency and hubris of the upper echelons, and due to mismanagement.
Lack of vision caused the mismanagement.
Only the top management was not from Kodak.
There was several levels of mismanagement.
Old time thinking caused the lack of vision.
You have any proof it was "old time thinking"? LOL
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
The exact same type of lack of vision with regards to the next steps in photography is happening right now before your very eyes.
That's what you think is happening.
Yes, I do. Photography is moving on in this fast developing technology.
 
In those days men were men etc. People weren't bothered by a bit of weight. I never heard anyone go on about a few pounds.
 
That is what happens when you only have old timers running the organization.
George Fisher joined Kodak in 1993, he was 53 at the time. He wasn't an "old timer", he simply ignored what Kodak stuff tried to tell him, people got buried in the hierarchy.
Kodak was strong in chemistry.
Kodak was very strong in digital technologies and in digital imaging applications.
True, my Olympus E500 with Kodak sensor, produced lovely, if "imperfect" images. I've often wondered if that technology and the people who drove it, had been free to develop it further what that would have been like.

Would we be in the same place as we are today? Or would the 'Kodak aesthetics' have modified the development path any?

--

I'm no genius, but I play one on the internet.
 
That is what happens when you only have old timers running the organization.
George Fisher joined Kodak in 1993, he was 53 at the time. He wasn't an "old timer", he simply ignored what Kodak stuff tried to tell him, people got buried in the hierarchy.
Kodak was strong in chemistry.
Kodak was very strong in digital technologies and in digital imaging applications.
True, my Olympus E500 with Kodak sensor, produced lovely, if "imperfect" images. I've often wondered if that technology and the people who drove it, had been free to develop it further what that would have been like.

Would we be in the same place as we are today? Or would the 'Kodak aesthetics' have modified the development path any?
Consumers wanted "low noise" at that moment, aesthetics wasn't in high demand. Huge investments into the CCD technology Fisher made were a mistake.
 
That is what happens when you only have old timers running the organization.
George Fisher joined Kodak in 1993, he was 53 at the time. He wasn't an "old timer", he simply ignored what Kodak stuff tried to tell him, people got buried in the hierarchy.
Kodak was strong in chemistry.
Kodak was very strong in digital technologies and in digital imaging applications.
True, my Olympus E500 with Kodak sensor, produced lovely, if "imperfect" images. I've often wondered if that technology and the people who drove it, had been free to develop it further what that would have been like.

Would we be in the same place as we are today? Or would the 'Kodak aesthetics' have modified the development path any?
Consumers wanted "low noise" at that moment, aesthetics wasn't in high demand. Huge investments into the CCD technology Fisher made were a mistake.
In hindsight, you are probably correct. But to me, it's always been about more than the specs. Every fork in the road limits your ability to visit some places and enhances others.

--

I'm no genius, but I play one on the internet.
 

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