I don't want video and I don't want to pay for it

Vendors are simply trying to leverage off the demand so they can sell more cameras, which actually lowers the price.

I'll guess that the demand for the R5 will double or triple with the high-end video. If everything goes right, you be able to buy an improved version of the Canon Mark IV for the same price as when it came out. That's cheap.

But I'm gonna guess you didn't buy a 5d of any vintage or any other high-end camera. Have no intention of buying an R5 even at $2000. You just like to complain about how unfair it is.

The people who buy one won't be complaining.
 
99% of the time I drive alone. This is my commuter car. If they took out the three extra doors and seats I should be able to get a cheaper car. They could also take the extra airbags out. If they did that. I be driving alone 100% of the time.
 
Here's a list of all the features that videographers want. Please tell me which ones do not benefit a still shooter. I'll give you a hint the answer is none.

1. Better dynamic range
It is developed bacause of video?
2. Higher resolution
MP Race was long started before any Video went in to DSLR or DSLM
3. Faster, smoother autofocus
This is not an argument for Video. Cine lenses are all manual, so no need for AF for Video.
4. Effective image stabilization
Why is this special for Video? IS was long here before Video came into DSLR.
5. High resolution viewfinder with fast refresh rate
Also no reason why it should be a typical video feature.
6. Long battery life
That would be without video anyway longer, no fans, lesser computer power etc.
7. Better color reproduction
This is not something which is coming with video, it is designed into the sensor, no matter if i is used for Video or stills.
8. Lower noise
Sensor Design and funny algos, not because of video.
9. Easy to navigate menus
Human Interface design, look at sony, nice video bad menu. :)
10. High frame rates
Hmm I remeber the 5DII, that was one monster of high frame rates :)

So an average joe like me gets nothing from video, only a few features which I personally will never use.
 
The announcement of the video features of the soon to be released Canon R5 has shown that incorporating video functions into a digital camera is not an afterthought but a major serious design consideration. Designing, testing and getting ready for production of these features in a camera adds considerable upfront costs to a camera. The sheer computational power required uses energy and creates heat which needs to be dealt with. I have no inkling how much these features add to the final retail costs of the camera, but I would assume it is not negligible. This is where my gripes come in. I am not interested in video. I am a stills photographer mainly interested in landscape, architectural and a bit street photography. Adding video features to cameras adds cost, its a bit like having to buy “go faster stripes and fancy alloy wheels” on a car which I have to purchase, which I do not want and which I have to pay for.

But, if a camera maker offers only half baked video features the camera is downgrade in reviews – as if anybody would downgrade an Arri just because it is not a decent stills camera.

It’s horses for courses, as they say. If I want to upgrade my camera, I want decent stills capabilities at a decent price. I do not want to have to pay for video features I do not want or ever going to use. The R5 may be a super camera – nobody can tell at the moment as it hasn’t been release at the moment – but it definitely is not for me.
...you could say that about so many other features, too. For example, I don't need two card slots and don't want to pay for it. I don't need 10 fps and don't want to pay for it. I don't need video at all, much less 8K, and don't want to pay for it.

I mean, it's just downright rude of Canon not to ask me what I want before making a camera and catering to my needs and wants. It's as if I were only one person and didn't represent everyone. ;-)
 
I deleted some rude posts. Why do some of you feel the need to respond rudely to something like this? All of us regulars know it's a much-discussed topic. Those of us who are "irregular" ;-) don't, and so they start a thread.

If you feel compelled to type yet another post on this subject with which you're already weary, at least make it polite and to the point.

First recommendation is to not even enter the thread. You KNOW it will frustrate you.

If you felt compelled to click into the thread anyway, the next recommendation is to just click the thumbs-up of a post from another member who said it well. No typing necessary! That carries the benefit that you also won't get notified of updates to this subject that you supposedly don't want to read about again.

Thanks for your cooperation.
 
There are plenty of cameras that "offer decent stills capabilities for a decent price." If the R5 is not for you, get the R6...or Z6....or A7 III.

There are plenty of people who want a well-rounded camera that shoots great stills and video. The R5 will certainly appeal to them.
 
The announcement of the video features of the soon to be released Canon R5 has shown that incorporating video functions into a digital camera is not an afterthought but a major serious design consideration. Designing, testing and getting ready for production of these features in a camera adds considerable upfront costs to a camera. The sheer computational power required uses energy and creates heat which needs to be dealt with. I have no inkling how much these features add to the final retail costs of the camera, but I would assume it is not negligible. This is where my gripes come in. I am not interested in video. I am a stills photographer mainly interested in landscape, architectural and a bit street photography. Adding video features to cameras adds cost, its a bit like having to buy “go faster stripes and fancy alloy wheels” on a car which I have to purchase, which I do not want and which I have to pay for.

But, if a camera maker offers only half baked video features the camera is downgrade in reviews – as if anybody would downgrade an Arri just because it is not a decent stills camera.

It’s horses for courses, as they say. If I want to upgrade my camera, I want decent stills capabilities at a decent price. I do not want to have to pay for video features I do not want or ever going to use. The R5 may be a super camera – nobody can tell at the moment as it hasn’t been release at the moment – but it definitely is not for me.
just think of 8k video as a camera shooting photos at 30 frames per second at 30+ mp. There are photographic uses, like macro stacking that can benefit from this.
 
It’s horses for courses, as they say. If I want to upgrade my camera, I want decent stills capabilities at a decent price. I do not want to have to pay for video features I do not want or ever going to use. The R5 may be a super camera – nobody can tell at the moment as it hasn’t been release at the moment – but it definitely is not for me.
your camera a DSLR or a mirrorless? You want liveview? fast fps? silent shooting?

- silent shoot requires almost everything that video does.

- fast fps electronic shutter same thing

when it really comes down to it, the amount of additional hardware that goes into a camera for video, is pretty small. the video encoders. ie: h.265, .264 asics etc.

but those would be in the digic chip anyways - for their, you know, cameras that have video.

the difference in manufacturing costs, is of course, nothing. you still have to manufacture either camera.

There are differences in firmware - but since the firmware would be developed for cameras that have video, and that would just simply be excluded from your camera, you aren't saving anything there either. it's not as if they write firmware for each camera from scratch.

So what are we left with...

it's this "theory" that video adds cost and cameras would be so much cheaper it wasn't for video - it really doesn't hold up.

Now the R5. it has some dazzling stills performance - as a matter of fact, even though Canon hasn't touted it that much - it's stills performance is .. well, insane.

45MP
12 fps with AF mech shutter
20 fps with AF electronic shutter


900 Mega pixels per second (20 fps x 45MP) is around the data rate required for 8K.

Imagine that?

So in reality for Canon to come out with a stills camera at 45MP to hit 20 fps, it didn't matter if it only shot stills or video - it would have to process data around as fast either way.
 
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I see the same old matras about 'it doesn't cost anything' have been trotted out again, as if it were written on a stone tablet somewhere.

Which of course, is highly unlikely. Until someone provides numbers, I will remain unconvinced.

For instance, autofocus and aperture design for stills and video are different. The speed and accuracy required for stills is not the same as the smooth 'pull' effect and less critical (lower resolution) required for video. Lenses are almost all switching to stepless linear motors, but this in itself is a compromise because it not the optimal solution for high accuracy.

As you say, heat dissipation is a serious concern with video, and less so with stills. This adds cost to the body engineering at the very least.

There is also evidence that the higher clock speeds required for video readout increase read noise and reduce DR. Since few video images are 'raw' in the true sense, they are normally 10-bit encoded, I don't see how this helps stills photographers.

Dedicated cameras sell in far smaller volumes than phone cameras, so the incremental development cost of adding these features cannot be discounted from the purchase price.

In other words, I agree with you.
 
The announcement of the video features of the soon to be released Canon R5 has shown that incorporating video functions into a digital camera is not an afterthought but a major serious design consideration. Designing, testing and getting ready for production of these features in a camera adds considerable upfront costs to a camera. The sheer computational power required uses energy and creates heat which needs to be dealt with. I have no inkling how much these features add to the final retail costs of the camera, but I would assume it is not negligible. This is where my gripes come in. I am not interested in video. I am a stills photographer mainly interested in landscape, architectural and a bit street photography. Adding video features to cameras adds cost, its a bit like having to buy “go faster stripes and fancy alloy wheels” on a car which I have to purchase, which I do not want and which I have to pay for.

But, if a camera maker offers only half baked video features the camera is downgrade in reviews – as if anybody would downgrade an Arri just because it is not a decent stills camera.

It’s horses for courses, as they say. If I want to upgrade my camera, I want decent stills capabilities at a decent price. I do not want to have to pay for video features I do not want or ever going to use. The R5 may be a super camera – nobody can tell at the moment as it hasn’t been release at the moment – but it definitely is not for me.
...you could say that about so many other features, too. For example, I don't need two card slots and don't want to pay for it.
Good new. Lots of cameras have one card slot.
I don't need 10 fps and don't want to pay for it. I don't need video at all, much less 8K, and don't want to pay for it.
Good news on the 10 fps front...
I mean, it's just downright rude of Canon not to ask me what I want before making a camera and catering to my needs and wants. It's as if I were only one person and didn't represent everyone. ;-)
What matters is how many other people think like you.
 
From my post on last week's thread referenced above.

"As has been pointed out a hundreds times before, if they made a model without video, it would cost MORE than the current models because it would sell in lower volumes."
A camera without video would be a niche product -- sales would likely never justify development cost, and only if it sold for a premium price.

Look at it the other way round -- All those video people are subsidizing your still camera.

JR / Gato
 
99% of the time I drive alone. This is my commuter car. If they took out the three extra doors and seats I should be able to get a cheaper car. They could also take the extra airbags out. If they did that. I be driving alone 100% of the time.
I do usually groan instinctively for car analogies, but this is actually a pretty good one.
 
The announcement of the video features of the soon to be released Canon R5 has shown that incorporating video functions into a digital camera is not an afterthought but a major serious design consideration. Designing, testing and getting ready for production of these features in a camera adds considerable upfront costs to a camera. The sheer computational power required uses energy and creates heat which needs to be dealt with. I have no inkling how much these features add to the final retail costs of the camera, but I would assume it is not negligible. This is where my gripes come in. I am not interested in video. I am a stills photographer mainly interested in landscape, architectural and a bit street photography. Adding video features to cameras adds cost, its a bit like having to buy “go faster stripes and fancy alloy wheels” on a car which I have to purchase, which I do not want and which I have to pay for.

But, if a camera maker offers only half baked video features the camera is downgrade in reviews – as if anybody would downgrade an Arri just because it is not a decent stills camera.

It’s horses for courses, as they say. If I want to upgrade my camera, I want decent stills capabilities at a decent price. I do not want to have to pay for video features I do not want or ever going to use. The R5 may be a super camera – nobody can tell at the moment as it hasn’t been release at the moment – but it definitely is not for me.
Andreas, I don't mean to come off as cheeky or anything but judging from your gear list you already have a wealth of Pentax stuff. It just puzzles me that you brought up the R5, because you already use a brand that isn't well regarded for video, but for stills. Not sure why you care?

But moreover, most cameras have video capabilities. And a lot more people nowadays are not only doing photography for clients -- but video work as well. It's becoming more and more of a demand.

If Canon is boasting about their video specifications, it just means they understand people want it, and they want it be amazing. That's why they're gunning for it. You mentioned you want decent stills at a decent price? Why not have both, and pay less? You'll be paying more for a specialized camera that focuses on stills only.
 
Today's winner in the "First World Problems" post competition.
 
Now that you've gotten that off your chest, what 's the practical effect of posting it? Do you have hopes of more camera companies offering more cameras with no video capability?
 
I doubt you are paying for video. The camera is most certainly cheaper than without video. The reason is economies of scale. If the camera did not have video, it would probably have higher price due to much smaller sales volume.

Because so many people want the video features of the camera, Canon can sell more cameras and offer the camera at a cheaper price.

Perhaps that is negated by the super expensive memory cards you'll need but oh well. lol.
 
These threads are like the movie Ground Hog Day.
 
I see the same old matras about 'it doesn't cost anything' have been trotted out again, as if it were written on a stone tablet somewhere.

Which of course, is highly unlikely. Until someone provides numbers, I will remain unconvinced.
This derives from microeconomic models, and common sense. This is pretty basic stuff taught in business school. You can peruse textbooks and journals to find specific examples: the Harvard Business Review used to be a good source, and case-study books are helpful as well.

In typical products, you have a fixed, upfront, or development cost, which is everything a company spends before the product even before it hits the market, which includes market research, design, engineering, finding suppliers and distributors, and setting up manufacturing. As mentioned by the OP, adding video to a still camera truly does add costs.

But then we also have marginal unit costs, which is the cost of producing each item, along with ongoing administrative and marketing costs, and as mentioned, video features add to unit costs as well.

The total cost per unit however, is the marginal unit cost, plus the fixed cost divided by the number of units made. The total cost goes down with increasing production run, and as total units made increases indefinitely, the relative fraction due to fixed costs goes to zero, which leads companies to deliver products with large unit volumes. And with large volumes, you can get economies of scale, where the marginal unit costs go down, with increased automation, favorable supply contracts, etc,

Then we come to supply and demand analysis. With the vast majority of products, potential buyers will be more prone to buy something if its price is both low enough and if the product better meets their needs, and considering the costs of manufacturer, and the competitive environment, a certain number of sales will be made.

Suppose a manufacturer decides to make two models instead of one, a video-only model and a stills-photography-only model. The upfront costs would be higher since they are dealing with two products, while the volume of either are going to be less than the single hybrid model; and so the total cost of either models will have to be higher as total costs are higher. But this does not take into consideration that some folks want to do both, and aren't willing to pay twice to get the same functionality, and so they might decide to buy a competitor's model which can do both stills and video, and so the price goes up even more for the dedicated stills and dedicated video models as demand falls.

Canon makes dedicated video models, and they cost a fortune. Nikon decided to make a dedicated stills camera, and it is rather expensive compared to hybrid models: and interviews of Nikon executives indicate that they consider that product to be a failure—while they can recover unit costs, and so the model is still sold, they will probably not recover their fixed costs.
 
Well gee, how did all those camera companies survive before digital? :-D
 

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