[PICS] What is the problem?!

Amir138563 · Oct 12, 2003

Hi All,

I really would appreciate some advice and comments here. Below you see two of my many trials to capture a moving subject... I have tried every possible way to do this, but it seems never to work. I have never complained about my S2, and I love it, but it's supposed to handle this kind of shooting, right?

As you can see, the autofocus is always "late", and focus ends up behind the moving subject. I have tried both Continuous, and Single Servo.

Dynamic AF and Closest Subject are OFF

I have done this many times, and it never works...

Best Regards,
--
Amir

dr_nikon · Oct 12, 2003

Black dog ran faster than bullet's speed

What did you use f/stop and shuttle speed?
Best way to use f/16 or higher better than f/4 or less

Tim Parsley · Oct 12, 2003

I checked your camera settings on the first photo on Photoshop --- the 1/350 of a second shutter speed should have been okay, and the f-stop of 5.6 is okay, depending on the lens. What I did notice was that the focal length was 299.0 mm. That may have caused some camera shake even with the shutter speed.

Only suggestion I might have is raising the ISO from 200 to 400 at that focal length to get even higher shutter speed.
What lens are you using?

Tim

--
Photo Gallery:
http://www.georgianonline.com/tims_photos/tims_photos.html

azeg · Oct 12, 2003

Hi Amir,

the dog´s running direction (to the cam) is hard to handle for the S2´s AF system.

When your dog´s running as fast as mine (Dobermann) then it´s really luck when it is in the correct AF.

Try manual focussing on high appertures and speeds as the DOF is deeper (ISO > 400).

If you use opticals with a DOF- scala you will see the distance range where your doggie is in the right sharpness.

Good luck
Andy

Amir said:
Hi All,

I really would appreciate some advice and comments here. Below you
see two of my many trials to capture a moving subject... I have
tried every possible way to do this, but it seems never to work. I
have never complained about my S2, and I love it, but it's supposed
to handle this kind of shooting, right?
As you can see, the autofocus is always "late", and focus ends up
behind the moving subject. I have tried both Continuous, and Single
Servo.

Dynamic AF and Closest Subject are OFF

I have done this many times, and it never works...

Best Regards,
--
Amir

wing88 · Oct 12, 2003

to put the camera in continuous shooting mode
and C focus .. only in that mode the AF keeps
focusing when shutter is half pressed and also
closest subject should be on in such circumstances
at least this is what I have done for the ice skaters
I was shooting this weekend and last ..
works for me ..

have fun
gmd

Amir said:
Hi All,

I really would appreciate some advice and comments here. Below you
see two of my many trials to capture a moving subject... I have
tried every possible way to do this, but it seems never to work. I
have never complained about my S2, and I love it, but it's supposed
to handle this kind of shooting, right?
As you can see, the autofocus is always "late", and focus ends up
behind the moving subject. I have tried both Continuous, and Single
Servo.

Dynamic AF and Closest Subject are OFF

I have done this many times, and it never works...

Best Regards,
--
Amir

--
More time would make me even happier.

Amir138563 · Oct 12, 2003

Sorry, forgot to mention the lens... It's the lousy Sigma 70-300 APO.
I don't think camera shake is a problem here, you see the grass is in focus.
I DID try Continuous as well...

And the camera HAS the ability to follow subject even in Single Servo AF, but ONLY if the subject is moving when shutter is half pressed.

I haven't tried manual focus on purpose, because I thought I don't need an S2 for that...

Regards
Amir

Amir said:
Hi All,

I really would appreciate some advice and comments here. Below you
see two of my many trials to capture a moving subject... I have
tried every possible way to do this, but it seems never to work. I
have never complained about my S2, and I love it, but it's supposed
to handle this kind of shooting, right?
As you can see, the autofocus is always "late", and focus ends up
behind the moving subject. I have tried both Continuous, and Single
Servo.

Dynamic AF and Closest Subject are OFF

I have done this many times, and it never works...

Best Regards,
--
Amir

--
Amir

dr_nikon · Oct 12, 2003

Which one make mistake by camera or human?

Amir said:
Amir said:

Hi All,

I really would appreciate some advice and comments here. Below you
see two of my many trials to capture a moving subject... I have
tried every possible way to do this, but it seems never to work. I
have never complained about my S2, and I love it, but it's supposed
to handle this kind of shooting, right?
As you can see, the autofocus is always "late", and focus ends up
behind the moving subject. I have tried both Continuous, and Single
Servo.

Dynamic AF and Closest Subject are OFF

I have done this many times, and it never works...

Best Regards,
--
Amir

Click to expand...

--
Amir

Amir138563 · Oct 12, 2003

Funny you mention it!

Actually, I never blame my equipment, and as I said earlier, I have never complained about my S2. It's a great camera, and I am sure that I am not fully taking advantage of it's abilities... As for the Sigma 70-300, I'm sure you agree it's not one of the top of the line lenses!?
Regards,
Amir

dr_nikon said:
Amir said:

Sorry, forgot to mention the lens... It's the lousy Sigma 70-300 APO.
I don't think camera shake is a problem here, you see the grass is
in focus.
I DID try Continuous as well...
And the camera HAS the ability to follow subject even in Single
Servo AF, but ONLY if the subject is moving when shutter is half
pressed.
I haven't tried manual focus on purpose, because I thought I don't
need an S2 for that...
Regards
Amir

Click to expand...

Robert Harrington · Oct 12, 2003

Amir,

I shoot moving subjects frequently and sometimes succeed. Here's a tern on flight path toward me:

Lens: Nikon 300mm f/4 AF-S at f6.7, 1/1000, ISO 200

Continuous focus, center-weighted metering, dynamic and closest-subject focusing off.

I found that dynamic focusing slows it down a lot. I haven't experimented with closest-subject focusing.

I suspect your problem is caused by the limitation of focusing speed of the lens. The Nikon 300 AF-S is quite fast.

The bottom line is that the S2 is capable of good action shots, so don't give up!

Robert
http://www.robert-harrington.com

Amir said:
Hi All,

I really would appreciate some advice and comments here. Below you
see two of my many trials to capture a moving subject... I have
tried every possible way to do this, but it seems never to work. I
have never complained about my S2, and I love it, but it's supposed
to handle this kind of shooting, right?
As you can see, the autofocus is always "late", and focus ends up
behind the moving subject. I have tried both Continuous, and Single
Servo.

Dynamic AF and Closest Subject are OFF

I have done this many times, and it never works...

Best Regards,
--
Amir

Amir138563 · Oct 12, 2003

Thanks Robert, that's a beautiful picture!!

I believe the 300 AF-S has a "built-in" focus motor? Perhaps that could be the reason why it's so fast. And as you say, the Sigma's focusing speed is probably limited.
Thanks again,
Amir
http://www.pbase.com/amir

Robert Harrington said:
Amir,

I shoot moving subjects frequently and sometimes succeed. Here's a
tern on flight path toward me:

Lens: Nikon 300mm f/4 AF-S at f6.7, 1/1000, ISO 200
Continuous focus, center-weighted metering, dynamic and
closest-subject focusing off.
I found that dynamic focusing slows it down a lot. I haven't
experimented with closest-subject focusing.
I suspect your problem is caused by the limitation of focusing
speed of the lens. The Nikon 300 AF-S is quite fast.
The bottom line is that the S2 is capable of good action shots, so
don't give up!

Robert
http://www.robert-harrington.com

Daniel Bell · Oct 12, 2003

Amir said:
Sorry, forgot to mention the lens... It's the lousy Sigma 70-300 APO.
I don't think camera shake is a problem here, you see the grass is
in focus.

It looks to me as though the area of grass that's in focus is BEHIND the dog (it's a little hard to tell, given how compressed the perspective is). If that's the case, perhaps it's the case that the AF motor just can't focus that lens fast enough to keep the dog in focus as it's moving towards you?

dr_nikon · Oct 12, 2003

hehe
All my life, I never buy other brand lens than Nikon or Canon.
I do not have any DSLR.

Many Many many times, someone saw my Canon F-1 or Nikon F4. They said, "WOW... very good camera made better picture". That's no sense to me. I told them any brand SLR still very good, more important skill work.

Amir said:
dr_nikon said:

Amir said:

Sorry, forgot to mention the lens... It's the lousy Sigma 70-300 APO.
I don't think camera shake is a problem here, you see the grass is
in focus.
I DID try Continuous as well...
And the camera HAS the ability to follow subject even in Single
Servo AF, but ONLY if the subject is moving when shutter is half
pressed.
I haven't tried manual focus on purpose, because I thought I don't
need an S2 for that...
Regards
Amir

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

jdjonny · Oct 12, 2003

With all respect, what are you guys talking about?? The pictures clearly (ok, maybe not so clearly haha sorry) show that this is a FOCUS problem and not a camera shake/motion blur problem as the grass in the background is sharply defined.

I would have to agree with you Amir that your lens just isn't doing the camera justice. I might suggest, however, that you give Closest Subject Priority a chance though. It may have helped a bit in this situation by forcing the camera to keep up with what's closest - in this case your dog's head. I also have been using Dynamic Focus for my sports shooting, but I agree that it may slow things down a bit. Still worth a shot though. It's obviously a focusing issue and I'd say your #1 problem is your lens' inability to focus quickly, but if you can compensate even a bit with the camera's features, it'd be worth it, wouldn't it??
Good luck to you.

Tim Parsley said:
I checked your camera settings on the first photo on Photoshop ---
the 1/350 of a second shutter speed should have been okay, and the
f-stop of 5.6 is okay, depending on the lens. What I did notice
was that the focal length was 299.0 mm. That may have caused some
camera shake even with the shutter speed.
Only suggestion I might have is raising the ISO from 200 to 400 at
that focal length to get even higher shutter speed.
What lens are you using?

Tim

--
Photo Gallery:
http://www.georgianonline.com/tims_photos/tims_photos.html

azeg · Oct 15, 2003

Just some doggie pics. stop action..
Taken with Nikkor 75-300
just cropped them a little bit.
Taken with 350/s and 1000/s

regards
Andy

http://www.pbase.com/image/22325671

http://www.pbase.com/image/22325666

http://www.pbase.com/image/22325668

Amir said:
Hi All,

I really would appreciate some advice and comments here. Below you
see two of my many trials to capture a moving subject... I have
tried every possible way to do this, but it seems never to work. I
have never complained about my S2, and I love it, but it's supposed
to handle this kind of shooting, right?
As you can see, the autofocus is always "late", and focus ends up
behind the moving subject. I have tried both Continuous, and Single
Servo.

Dynamic AF and Closest Subject are OFF

I have done this many times, and it never works...

Best Regards,
--
Amir

Evan Effa · Oct 15, 2003

I have the Sigma 70-300 APO & the Nikon 80-200/2.8 (not AF-S) and some shorter AFS lenses. The Sigma is by far the slowest of the lot in focussing. I would not expect it to keep up to a relatively close object like this dog moving towards you at event half the speed. It really isn't the camera's fault. You're asking more than the Sigma can deliver. My Nikon 80-200 is better but I'm sure a longer Af-S lens would be far superior.

-evan

Amir said:
Hi All,

I really would appreciate some advice and comments here. Below you
see two of my many trials to capture a moving subject... I have
tried every possible way to do this, but it seems never to work. I
have never complained about my S2, and I love it, but it's supposed
to handle this kind of shooting, right?
As you can see, the autofocus is always "late", and focus ends up
behind the moving subject. I have tried both Continuous, and Single
Servo.

Dynamic AF and Closest Subject are OFF

I have done this many times, and it never works...

Best Regards,
--
Amir

--
Fuji S2 etc.

http://www.pbase.com/eheffa

Robert Whiteman · Oct 15, 2003

Amir said:
Hi All,

I really would appreciate some advice and comments here. Below you
see two of my many trials to capture a moving subject... I have
tried every possible way to do this, but it seems never to work. I
have never complained about my S2, and I love it, but it's supposed
to handle this kind of shooting, right?
As you can see, the autofocus is always "late", and focus ends up
behind the moving subject. I have tried both Continuous, and Single
Servo.

Dynamic AF and Closest Subject are OFF

I have done this many times, and it never works...

Once the AF finds focus the dog has moved on. AF is great for many things but action headed towards you is NOT one of them. You can only (manually) pre-focus on a spot and wait for the subject to get there. You need to remember to have the shutter depressed halfway to avoid even the slightlest lag.

AF will probably be ok if the subject is going past you as long as you pan with the subject. Focus distance should change much in that setup. But straight on the subject is moving though the focus zone and you'll miss it every time with AF.

Camera is great. Lens, most likely fine. It's just a matter of physics.

good luck,

Robert

Robert Harrington · Oct 16, 2003

Amir,

Yes, the 300 AF-S has the "silent wave" built-in motor that makes it quite fast. Here's another example:

AF-C on, f5.6, 1/1500s. The Black Skimmers move quite fast - I don't think any dog could keep up.

Using manual focus and prefocusing would be seldom work IMHO. That's certainly true for birds in the air that I often shoot, but even for a dog as in your case, I think it would be very difficult. I'd like to see an example of that method.

Robert

more black skimmers at http://robert-harrington.com/photos/bchicasantee/bolsachica3/bolsachica3.htm

Amir said:
Robert Harrington said:

Amir,

I shoot moving subjects frequently and sometimes succeed. Here's a
tern on flight path toward me:

Click to expand...

..

Amir138563 said:
Amir138563 said:

Lens: Nikon 300mm f/4 AF-S at f6.7, 1/1000, ISO 200
Continuous focus, center-weighted metering, dynamic and
closest-subject focusing off.
I found that dynamic focusing slows it down a lot. I haven't
experimented with closest-subject focusing.
I suspect your problem is caused by the limitation of focusing
speed of the lens. The Nikon 300 AF-S is quite fast.
The bottom line is that the S2 is capable of good action shots, so
don't give up!

Robert
http://www.robert-harrington.com

Click to expand...

JohnB23144 · Oct 16, 2003

Okay, here's my "frozen" dog pic. I imagine I prefocused on the bar (with autofocus) and waited...

JohnB

Igor Fradlis · Oct 16, 2003

My F4s and 8008s with databacks both have an option of “focus priority”. I am not sure whether the newer Nikons have that option. Basically the lens’ are switched to manual focus and databack is set to focus priority. After a shutter is depressed AND held down as soon as your subject moves into the focusing bracket and gets in focus the camera fires. I guess this option was popular back in the days when a lot of manual focus lenses could become semi-automatic in this manner, too bad Nikon discontinued this option in their databacks.

Igor

JohnB said:
Okay, here's my "frozen" dog pic. I imagine I prefocused on the bar
(with autofocus) and waited...

JohnB

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