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When you read what I’ve written here, I know some of you will tell me to just go away, buy a nice manual film SLR, and be quiet. What I'm really interested in though are your thoughts surrounding the technological "advances" in photography as digital is "the everything." This post is simply an expression of my occasional bewildered ramblings through the tall grass of technology...

I recently purchased a very nice Olympus OM-D E-M1 MkII. Fabulous camera, but I am overwhelmed. The camera is a complicated beast. It looks as though if I want to enjoy it, I may wish to back off and use it in "A" mode at ISO 200. If I do that, I ignore its potential and maybe the purchase is/was a complete waste of time, effort, and money. Its user manual is MASSIVE. Really?? C'mon, a Boeing 737 Max is easier to understand, and that technology atrocity has killed hundreds of world citizens. But, if I don't simplify, the sheer abundance of features gets in the way of good images IMO. Really, nobody can remember every feature, every AF twist, how to use any of it, and when to use it to best effect. And the user manual mostly just tells you how to set a feature, and nothing about its usefulness or appropriateness. I know I don’t have to use all of the features, but they clutter the menus and confound.

I don't consider myself a luddite, but even with my passion for photography, I am bewildered by the supremely complicated cameras of 2020. Even my 2016 Pen F is a challenge. Firmware, IBIS, live view, noise filter, shading comp, color space, compression levels, scene modes, art filters, pixel mapping, dark frame subtraction, HHHD, SD card versions, and more and more (and more!), and all with the outrageous pointless hugely complicated video abominations.

I started in the film era, circa 1971. I've never used a Nikon F3, but hand me one with a lens and a roll of film, and I'll understand the camera just fine and be making pleasant images in about two minutes. No user manual available? So what!!! Current digital cameras are massively overly complicated, even to start making your first image.

I have a nice contemporary European-made pocket watch that my wife gave me for our anniversary. I push the stem and the cover pops open. I twist the stem to make it go (winding). I pull the stem and twist to set the time. It just works, and I don't have to plug it in or worry about firmware updates. If it stops running, I can step outside and look at the sundial in our garden to get my watch “updated to current firmware” (silly, I know, but I'm wanting to make a point here).

A Leica M10 Monochrom is looking so attractive. Digital, relatively simple; after all it's only money that I don't have. Or maybe a Hasselblad 500CM with 80mm f/2.8 lens and 120 film back. Is there any 120 film out there?

What are your thoughts as we experience what is a descent into technology and a departure from any thoughtful creative endeavor? I expect a lot of negative replies, but I don’t care. Give me your best shot.

Or ignore me, and this thread, and go make some images.


Jim Pilcher
Bonita Springs, Florida, USA
Life is a breeze by the sea
 
James Pilcher said:
What are your thoughts as we experience what is a descent into technology and a departure from any thoughtful creative endeavor?
Click to expand...
As far as M4/3 is concerned I ceased buying newer bodies* at the E-P5, it does all I need reliably and nicely and is not too darn complicated. Set up with 4 MySets on the Mode dial so now it is easier to use than a usual point 'n' shoot.

A year ago for a compact to fit into a belt pouch, I bought a Sony RX100M6 and suddenly faced a massive wall of menu mess and complication, so found how to use it in a simple way and ignored the 1,000 other fancy features.

So yes, when I look into later manuals in order to RTFM for someone asking a question here, I do see a crazy mess of options that don't interest me. I just want to go take pictures.

Note*: I did more recently buy a very cheap new E-M10 Mk2 simply to explore the newer features of the later TruePic chip but it sits idle as I have not had the time to explore its possibilities. The E-P5 is still my usual camera.

Regards..... Guy
 
I dont mind the complex menu. because i dont use half of it anyway. i dont shoots birds and occasionally netball or my dogs running and default settings are very capable of handling that. but in the studio i have 3 custom buttons setup for focusing and it was great to have presets makes the whole process fast and efficient. I never in 40 years even use the clutch on cordless drills what a waste of feature that is compared to camera features.

Don
 
..so my wife can't see where the programme is up to from the sofa!

I don't shoot video on my camera.

Just ignore the features you don't need and be grateful for the ones you do; alternatively get a Sigma DP Merrill and do without.

Andrew
 
Go through the camera’s menu, one option at a time, with the manual open on your iPad in front of you. The shooting basics are not complicated, and basically the same on any camera. Experiment with the extras and gimmicks later on, as time allows.
 
Intersting post Jim :)

First of all, there is noting wrong with relegating yourself to A mode & ISO 200. Use it like a film camera. (I mostly do and use the C1-C3 for different 'films' or shooting scenarios) The rest is where things get interesting & fun.

You have a PEN-F so you've got a great start. Not really so different. You don't have to memorize everything.

Sure, the manual is huge so take it 'one bite at a time'. As you go through each function, start a notes file for the interesting stuff you may use and sync/copy it to your phone.
  • Start with SCP, master it (assume you already have). learn each function intimately. Between the SCP and C modes, I rarely go into the menus these days.
  • Spend a a night with each menu.. Shooting 1 & 2 and then with each of the Custom Menus. Play with each option and if something interesting comes up, add it to your notes file.
  • Play with the ART modes (assume you have with the PEN-F)
  • Take your top 4 shooting scenarios & save each to a custom function.. your day to day is default in 'A' mode and everything else in C1-C3. eg. B&W, Sports/Widlife, Favourite ART, etc.
  • Do the same with the video functions
  • Save your settings on your PC/Mac in Workspace!!
Once done, go back and revisit every few months. It's amazing what you can miss on the first pass and even after using it, you can tweak some settings.

The Mk III has even more but I like that I can save those special menu items in the favourites.

Most of all, have fun & shoot!
 
I bought Olympus also for *features*.
It's going to be complicated :)
 
You are perfectly normal James. Just because all these features are available, does not mean you must use them. Pick what is useful to you, and forget the rest. Don't let technology spoil your creativity, nor your enjoyment of photography.

I only use maybe 20% of what my phone is capable of. I simply do not need the rest. Then again, I think the vast majority of these young folks spending half the day with their phone, still only use 20% of what it is capable of, just a different 20%.
 
much like Marty. I don't see the problem as a "wasteland", it's TMI: Too Much Information. My little match needle Rollei 35 is a camera. My new M5 Mk III is a computer.

We all have the choice to use our gear in a way that meets our needs. I spent a couple of days playing learning my new Mk III and getting it sorted out. I'm good, and now the camera doesn't get in the way of my hobby.

At the risk of some flaming, I'll suggest devotion to raw presents the same TMI conundrum. I do very little raw processing because Oly gives me what I want. Get it right when you take the shot. If you want to get super creative, the option is there.

I go back about as far as you, and the smell of stop bath is something I vividly remember. I'm not sure how I'd convince my wife to sacrifice a bathroom to a darkroom, though. So, digital is a great compromise. It's how you look at, and use, the tool.
 
ahaslett said:
..so my wife can't see where the programme is up to from the sofa!

I don't shoot video on my camera.

Just ignore the features you don't need and be grateful for the ones you do; alternatively get a Sigma DP Merrill and do without.

Andrew
Click to expand...
Andrew, We have one of those "smart" fridge freezers from Samsung with a whopping WIFI LCD touch-screen. It is not that smart I ask it for a sandwich and it tells me the weather :-) When kitchen appliances work like the replicators on Star Trek then they will deserve to be called smart, until then mildly annoying is nearer the mark
 
Digital cameras are a godsend. Being able to see your results instantly is the best kind of feedback for what you're doing right or what you're doing wrong. Being able to take a gazillion pictures without worrying about how much it's going to cost is also enormously freeing. Those two simple aspects have improved my photography 10x.

But I had 90% of that benefit with the first digital camera I bought in 2003, the changes since then have been much less dramatic. I still enjoy the journey though. I don't worry about the overly complicated menus or the features I haven't used yet; I know I can figure it out if I ever find the need.
 
James Stirling said:
ahaslett said:
..so my wife can't see where the programme is up to from the sofa!

I don't shoot video on my camera.

Just ignore the features you don't need and be grateful for the ones you do; alternatively get a Sigma DP Merrill and do without.

Andrew
Click to expand...
Andrew, We have one of those "smart" fridge freezers from Samsung with a whopping WIFI LCD touch-screen. It is not that smart I ask it for a sandwich and it tells me the weather :-) When kitchen appliances work like the replicators on Star Trek then they will deserve to be called smart, until then mildly annoying is nearer the mark
Click to expand...
I remember wondering who would want to surf the net while leaning on the fridge!

:-D
 
ahaslett said:
James Stirling said:
ahaslett said:
..so my wife can't see where the programme is up to from the sofa!

I don't shoot video on my camera.

Just ignore the features you don't need and be grateful for the ones you do; alternatively get a Sigma DP Merrill and do without.

Andrew
Click to expand...
Andrew, We have one of those "smart" fridge freezers from Samsung with a whopping WIFI LCD touch-screen. It is not that smart I ask it for a sandwich and it tells me the weather :-) When kitchen appliances work like the replicators on Star Trek then they will deserve to be called smart, until then mildly annoying is nearer the mark
Click to expand...
I remember wondering who would want to surf the net while leaning on the fridge!

:-D
Click to expand...
I agree I really do not see the point in them , though it is not like I had a say in buying it :-)
 
I am far from one comfortable with technology, I can do the basics with a computer but don't even own a cellphone. My history was with film until 2014. At that time I bought an EM-1 I and some of my early efforts were mediocre.

The vast number of controls and options are not necessary for most photographers; you should consider the types of photography you do and try to realize what controls/options you need. If you branch out into different genre, it is not like you have to understand all the things you can do. To maximize your results you can over time - not that much time - learn what is needed for that new area of photography.

My early mistakes were quite simple: Learning to watch ISO, white balance, aperture, shutter speed, learning about DOF with this system, learning to pre-focus and expose and then recompose. I quickly learned "A" mode works easily for me and is best. I learned to normally shoot both '0' and +.3 on exposure in most but backlit scenarios. Really not much of this is different than with a film camera. It is just that you have access to more precise controls.

I shoot landscape, active people in landscape, nature as in wildflowers, etc., and have recently added birds. Coming from film, I needed to learn I could control output (LSF or RAW). The latest bodies allow one to shoot with anti-shock or in silent mode. I can set a self timer. I learned I can Defish the 8mm if I so choose (rarely would). I learned fairly easily to shoot Astro/Landscape with just a few controls and in M mode.

I find best landscape results in most cases to be obtained in MF with Focus Peaking - a great feature. I could shoot Auto ISO but in most cases I shoot Sun, Shadow, or Clouds.

With people in landscape the keys again are DOF but also SS. I still get the best results in MF by refocusing and watching DOF as I do so.

In macro/flowers for best results I use a tripod, Focus Stacking with normally F5.6 and step 3 step, 15 shots; but the latter both also require considering total requirement for DOF. I shoot in MF again. I learned in playback to use Magnify I use 7 or 10.

In birding, now with the EM-1 II and 300 F4, I've only really been at it for two months, and have learned that sometimes Auto-ISO and Auto White Balance can be necessary. I've learned watching SS is very key. I've learned when shooting a bird in the sky I need to shoot around +1.7 EV. I've learned how to shoot in burst mode and that CAF works best in most cases. I've learned to use a distance limiter in many cases. I've learned I can shoot effectively small birds leaving a perch using Pro Capture. There are more things I can work on in birding - which is likely the most difficult of shooting. It will take me some time to get pretty good but there is no hurry. I've learned to use Silent Mode to not scare birds.

But there are many things in the Menu that I will never use and can ignore - Flash, Video, and others. I don't shoot Street or Indoors (rarely). And most controls I use are on the SCP.

It is not as difficult as it may at first seem, depending on the genre of photography I'm shooting. The vast number of controls are to get the very best results in each genre of photography. I can do fine without many of them.
 
Last edited:
Gary from Seattle said:
I am far from one comfortable with technology, I can do the basics with a computer but don't even own a cellphone. My history was with film until 2014. At that time I bought an EM-1 I and some of my early efforts were mediocre.

The vast number of controls and options are not necessary for most photographers; you should consider the types of photography you do and try to realize what controls/options you need. If you branch out into different genre, it is not like you have to understand all the things you can do. To maximize your results you can over time - not that much time - learn what is needed for that new area of photography.

My early mistakes were quite simple: Learning to watch ISO, white balance, aperture, shutter speed, learning about DOF with this system, learning to pre-focus and expose and then recompose. I quickly learned "A" mode works easily for me and is best. I learned to normally shoot both '0' and +.3 on exposure in most but backlit scenarios. Really not much of this is different than with a film camera. It is just that you have access to more precise controls.

I shoot landscape, active people in landscape, nature as in wildflowers, etc., and have recently added birds. Coming from film, I needed to learn I could control output (LSF or RAW). The latest bodies allow one to shoot with anti-shock or in silent mode. I can set a self timer. I learned I can Defish the 8mm if I so choose (rarely would). I learned fairly easily to shoot Astro/Landscape with just a few controls and in M mode.

I find best landscape results in most cases to be obtained in MF with Focus Peaking - a great feature. I could shoot Auto ISO but in most cases I shoot Sun, Shadow, or Clouds.

With people in landscape the keys again are DOF but also SS. I still get the best results in MF by refocusing and watching DOF as I do so.

In macro/flowers for best results I use a tripod, Focus Stacking with normally F5.6 and step 3 step, 15 shots; but the latter both also require considering total requirement for DOF. I shoot in MF again. I learned in playback to use Magnify I use 7 or 10.

In birding, now with the EM-1 II and 300 F4, I've only really been at it for two months, and have learned that sometimes Auto-ISO and Auto White Balance can be necessary. I've learned watching SS is very key. I've learned when shooting a bird in the sky I need to shoot around +1.7 EV. I've learned how to shoot in burst mode and that CAF works best in most cases. I've learned to use a distance limiter in many cases. I've learned I can shoot effectively small birds leaving a perch using Pro Capture. There are more things I can work on in birding - which is likely the most difficult of shooting. It will take me some time to get pretty good but there is no hurry. I've learned to use Silent Mode to not scare birds.

But there are many things in the Menu that I will never use and can ignore - Flash, Video, and others. I don't shoot Street or Indoors (rarely). And most controls I use are on the SCP.

It is not as difficult as it may at first seem, depending on the genre of photography I'm shooting. The vast number of controls are to get the very best results in each genre of photography. I can do fine without many of them.
Click to expand...
Great summary
 
The majority of the complexity is to overcome technological shortcomings.

HHHR is to overcome a low resolution sensor

EVF refresh rate is to overcome inadequate evf performance (Surely a great EVF would allow you to use a high refresh rate at all times without any other detriment).

Multiple AF modes are to overcome limitations of the AF system (a great AF system would let you use tracking AF for everything. Just point at your subject and it keeps it in focus)

multiple resolutions are to overcome limitations in storage and display (If we had unlimited storage and always displayed and shared at full resolution why would we need anything less)

etc etc

Complex interfaces which are necessitated by technology that is not fully mature and capable.

Completely agree with the OP. A great camera is one where we need to make minimal changes to get the shot we want. Choose exposure (Aperture and shutter speed), pick what we want to be in focus and the camera technology should just make it happen.

Interestingly, smartphone manufacturers understand this more than camera manufacturers... but we complain about lack of control with those!
 
Watch some YouTube videos.

Read some books.

Just shoot the default settings until there's something you want to do out of the ordinary.

Or just shoot with an iPhone.
 
Modern digital cameras come with a lot of bells and whistles, as you said. And as others have said, we don't have to use them all. If you can figure out how to adjust the aperture/shutter/ISO/ev, you can take a decent picture. That's it, right? Those are the same basics we used on our film cameras.

What I find myself continually confronting is this question: What do I want to DO with this camera?

Let's say I want to take star trail pictures. I could easily use a film camera, calculating exposure times for my lens, focus to infinity, attach a shutter release cable, set to Bulb (using 800 speed film shutter speeds are on the order of 25-35 minutes)..

I can accomplish the same goal with my Olympus m43 camera: experiment with different combos of ISO and shutter speed to get a nice exposure, use focus magnifier to focus lens (set to manual focus only, shutter speeds on the order of 20-30 sec)...

Now with the EM-5III, you can use one of the software modes meant for taking starry pictures, focus the lens using focus magnifier...

Same goal, two different tools, more options to achieve that goal. Most people will be more comfortable with one of the above workflows than the others. Totally natural!

One reason I still like film photography is BECAUSE it's so different than digital. Some days I just feel like taking out my russian RF with 35mm prime because it's seems simpler, more straightforward. I could do the same thing with my m43...but it's just different.
 
I bought my first camera ever in 2004, and I never had any significant trouble with all of options and controls available. Olympus C-5060WZ in 2004, C-7070WZ in 2005, and now E-M1 Mark II in 2019, and they are basically all the same to me in operation. You control what you want to control. RAW, aperture, exposure compensation, focal length, focus point, framing, timing - that's pretty much it for me. E-M1 Mark II and 12-100mm F4 might be even simpler than C-7070WZ because I don't have to worry about shutter speed as much thanks to the IS. All of the features and automation in modern cameras today make things so much easier, not harder. Do you think I would be able to use a camera from 50-60 years ago? Imagine if that was the only option for me. I would not have been able to get into photography if not for the technology today. Technology has lowered the bar of entry way, way down for untrained and uneducated people like me, not raised it.
 
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