Do you agree with Jared ('A WARNING to Sony')?

ZodiacPhoto · Mar 1, 2020

Please watch this, if you have time:

Hint: set playback speed to 1.5 to save your time.

What can Sony do to maintain its lead over Canon & Nikon?

Do you want a larger pro body?

Should Sony switch to XQD or CFE cards?

Should Sony re-design the 70-200 f/2.8 GM and other lenses to make them lighter and more compact? Should Sony make innovative lenses, like f/2 zooms?

My 5¢:

- I am happy with current body size. This is why I shoot mirrorless.

- I am also happy with SD card speed, but I shoot landscapes mostly. I understand that action shooters needs faster memory. I am also very comfortable with SD pricing at the moment.

- Waiting for Tamron 70-180 f/2.8 - if it performs well, I don't need an updated Sony zoom. I don't need ultra-fast primes and zooms for my photography, but I would like to play with T&S. Will try the Rokinon / Samyang 24mm T&S.

Of course, my preferences are usable for me only.

Swordman · Mar 1, 2020

Ultimately, competition from Canon will make Sony up their game. I don't think they have to worry too much for now, since some people want a smaller system. Also, Sony has the most cost effective system compared to the competition. The f1.2 aperture lenses would be nice, as would 1.8 zooms, and if the market demands them, then they'll make them.

Mr_Win · Mar 1, 2020

ZodiacPhoto said:
Please watch this, if you have time:

Hint: set playback speed to 1.5 to save your time.

What can Sony do to maintain its lead over Canon & Nikon?

Do you want a larger pro body?

Should Sony switch to XQD or CFE cards?

Should Sony re-design the 70-200 f/2.8 GM and other lenses to make them lighter and more compact? Should Sony make innovative lenses, like f/2 zooms?

My 5¢:

- I am happy with current body size. This is why I shoot mirrorless.

- I am also happy with SD card speed, but I shoot landscapes mostly. I understand that action shooters needs faster memory. I am also very comfortable with SD pricing at the moment.

- Waiting for Tamron 70-180 f/2.8 - if it performs well, I don't need an updated Sony zoom. I don't need ultra-fast primes and zooms for my photography, but I would like to play with T&S. Will try the Rokinon / Samyang 24mm T&S.

Of course, my preferences are usable for me only.

Ferguson · Mar 1, 2020

Yes. I'm usually not much of a fan (though he's not full of BS as some others), and I rarely have the attention span for youtube, but I actually listened to this one, and I agree with almost everything he said.

With a couple caveats....

I'm reasonably happy with the A9ii with the grip on it. It's not as nice and solid as a full size body would be, but it is not awful. I think they also have a lot of fans of the smaller size who think carrying a few less ounces around is critical, even if it's not me. I want them to be successful, and that may be harder if they otherwise need the same features for both audiences but in two sizes. I'm not sure of the solution - maybe a more integrated, modular grip with one card in the grip and one in the body? (They waste a huge amount of space in the current grip with the battery compartment in the camera basically being empty -- rearrange something maybe). Regardless, I would not say that a full size body (vs good, solid grips) is the killer issue he makes out. Now CFExpress definitely is -- they are foolish to stick with SD with SDExpress maybe still a myth.

The other caveat is I think he rambled and lacked a coherent message on Sony glass. Not that he's wrong, necessarily, in what he said, but he did not make a clear case that Sony has an issue there. For a "warning" it lacked being actionable. He was quite specific on the 70-200 -- it's heavy. OK, it's heavier, but it's a terrific lens, the zoom is outstandingly smooth, and optics are top notch. I really would not notice if they shaved a few ounces off, it's not THAT heavy; the difference is not a game changer. I'd much rather they put that effort into a 300/2.8, 200/2, or 130-300/2.8. (And note the oddity that he took issue with Sony trying to make pro bodies too light, but then took issue with the pro 70-200/2.8 being too heavy).

One thing I would add to his list (though it is implied somewhere in there): The A9ii needs to be faster. Not in shooting; it's darn fast there. In everything else -- in how long it takes to turn on, to switch to the EVF, to change modes, to review shots while the buffer is clearing (or most anything else while it clears). THey did a darn fine job of making it shoot fast, and making shooting the top priority, but it needs faster processing. My GUESS is this is also limited by their priority of being tiny; I'd gladly carry half again or even twice the battery weight (and I use a grip) if I could have several times the responsiveness of its computer, in general. It just does not FEEL Like a pro camera when these things go so slowly.

lattesweden · Mar 1, 2020

Some A7/9 camera models, both in the past and in the present have been rather incremental updates and others have been larger jumps, only one have been a fairly huge jump. I guess we can't expect each new model to be revolutionary and that is fine.

But the list of things that are in need of correction, or are lacking, is rather long and many of those items has been on that list at least for up to five years, which is when I stepped in. Other brands has gotten those same things more right than Sony and they also have the lacking features. They have been debated here endlessly so I won't list them again.

Up till now, no one has been able to compete with Sony on Autofocus and sensor performance which is the most important thing a body need to perform so there hasn't been a true competitor out there.

But now the firmware updates on Nikon Z who has good sensors are getting the autofocus to work like it needs to. And the Canon R5, if it delivers IRL on the hinted specs will be a tough competitor.

(The 1DXmkIII in Live View mode does look good, see Jareds other video. I think Sony should be happy Canon didn't make an EVF version of that body since it is awkward to use in Live View mode with a non moving LCD as the only viewfinder in LV, and in OVF mode it has less good AF).

So I agree with Jared in much of what he puts forward.

--
Best regards
/Anders
----------------------------------------------------
42 Megapixels is the answer to life, the universe and everything.
Gone in 20 fps.
You don't have to like my pictures, but it would help: http://www.lattermann.com/gallery

MILC man · Mar 1, 2020

ZodiacPhoto said:
Please watch this, if you have time:

Hint: set playback speed to 1.5 to save your time.

What can Sony do to maintain its lead over Canon & Nikon?

they have already done it:

- stacked sensors, that canikon can't make

- 15-20fps af-c lenses, that canikon can't match: http://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp...ilce9/continuousshooting/en/index.html?id=spt

ZodiacPhoto said:
Do you want a larger pro body?

absolutely not

ZodiacPhoto said:
Should Sony switch to XQD or CFE cards?

and throw away our investment in fast sd cards? i'm ambivalent

ZodiacPhoto said:
Should Sony re-design the 70-200 f/2.8 GM and other lenses to make them lighter and more compact?

they already did that, and sony has lenses like the 200-600, that canon has never made, because canon doesn't understand what their client base really wants.

further proof of that was the ridiculous dive bar on eos-r, which they apparently abandoned, the 4k 1.8 crop on eos-r, etc.

ZodiacPhoto said:
Should Sony make innovative lenses, like f/2 zooms?]

overpriced unstabilized porky halo glass? please, no

if there was a market for giant f/2 milc zooms, sigma would do it, in several different mounts... but so far they haven't.

ZodiacPhoto said:
My 5¢:

agree with all that.

e-mount has the best 3-party lens support on the planet, why buy into an unproven rf-mount platform, from a company that had to go to sony to get stacked sensors for their compact cameras... and make it cdaf-only :-0 canon couldn't even use their own dpaf.

Jimmy Simpleton · Mar 1, 2020

I've been shopping around for which mirrorless system to buy into. Here's my perspective. I think that there are a few areas where Sony could stand to improve.

The first is in moving to a faster card such as CF express. I've read and seen many functions rendered unusable when the buffer is writing, for instance, on the A7R IV.

The next is in developing a bigger, higher resolution rear-screen with better touchscreen capability and fully articulating functionality.

The third area of potential improvement is addressing the lack of lossless compression.

Fourth, how about finally fixing the "star eater" problem?

Addressing the foregoing would leave Sony more strongly positioned against the coming challengers--the EOS R5/R1 and Nikon Z8/9.

garykohs · Mar 1, 2020

I agree with Jared in his warnings for Sony video ... not his choice of political candidates!

The problem with being fine with the status quo (in cameras not political leaders) is that I was once also fine with my

Canon AE-1 Program and
Konica-Minolta Maxxum 7D

Sony currently makes the best, dollar for dollar and feature for feature, cameras in the world. And I'm really fond of the two I have. But competition, especially from Canon, is going to change the playing field. I think Jared's suggestions are well considered.

None of this is news to the folks at Sony, obviously. And they are not going to follow the crowd. My guess is that Sony will continue to innovate in desirable directions. It's the vision thing.

--
Gary
http://www.kleinoak.org/a700/mustang_a700.jpg

Lan · Mar 1, 2020

ZodiacPhoto said:
Please watch this, if you have time:

Hint: set playback speed to 1.5 to save your time.

Thank you for the tip; you're right, 1.5x is about right

ZodiacPhoto said:
What can Sony do to maintain its lead over Canon & Nikon?

Implement lossless compressed RAW

ZodiacPhoto said:
Do you want a larger pro body?

No. Absolutely not.

ZodiacPhoto said:
Should Sony switch to XQD or CFE cards?

I'm ambivalent. If they can provide some with reasonable cost/performance, I'm fine with that.

ZodiacPhoto said:
Should Sony re-design the 70-200 f/2.8 GM and other lenses to make them lighter and more compact?

Yes, but only if we can have smaller and more compact whilst maintaining image quality.

ZodiacPhoto said:
Should Sony make innovative lenses, like f/2 zooms?

Depends on how you define innovative?

I don't want or need lenses in excess of 1kg each.

I would actually prefer slower (f4 lenses) with higher performance. I don't shoot f4 because I can't afford f1.2, I shoot f4 because I value portability; which is the same reason I shoot Sony

The I only have one lens at f2.8 or faster, and that's a Macro - not because I want/need f2.8 in Macro, because I don't, but only because that's the only flavour available.

I would like an AF 200mm f4 Macro 1:1 or better.

ZodiacPhoto said:
My 5¢:

- I am happy with current body size. This is why I shoot mirrorless.

- I am also happy with SD card speed, but I shoot landscapes mostly. I understand that action shooters needs faster memory. I am also very comfortable with SD pricing at the moment.

- Waiting for Tamron 70-180 f/2.8 - if it performs well, I don't need an updated Sony zoom. I don't need ultra-fast primes and zooms for my photography, but I would like to play with T&S. Will try the Rokinon / Samyang 24mm T&S.

Of course, my preferences are usable for me only.

Indeed; we are all individuals. As it happens I agree with you though

Funny Valentine · Mar 1, 2020

garykohs said:
I agree with Jared in his warnings for Sony video ... not his choice of political candidates!

The problem with being fine with the status quo (in cameras not political leaders) is that I was once also fine with my

Canon AE-1 Program and

Konica-Minolta Maxxum 7D

Sony currently makes the best, dollar for dollar and feature for feature, cameras in the world. And I'm really fond of the two I have. But competition, especially from Canon, is going to change the playing field. I think Jared's suggestions are well considered.

Sorry but not that true anymore. Pentax, Panasonic and Olympus cameras are a lot more feature packed for less price when you include lenses to the equation.

garykohs said:
None of this is news to the folks at Sony, obviously. And they are not going to follow the crowd. My guess is that Sony will continue to innovate in desirable directions. It's the vision thing.

HFLM · Mar 1, 2020

ZodiacPhoto said:
Please watch this, if you have time:

Hint: set playback speed to 1.5 to save your time.

What can Sony do to maintain its lead over Canon & Nikon?

Do you want a larger pro body?

Should Sony switch to XQD or CFE cards?

Should Sony re-design the 70-200 f/2.8 GM and other lenses to make them lighter and more compact? Should Sony make innovative lenses, like f/2 zooms?

My 5¢:

- I am happy with current body size. This is why I shoot mirrorless.

- I am also happy with SD card speed, but I shoot landscapes mostly. I understand that action shooters needs faster memory. I am also very comfortable with SD pricing at the moment.

- Waiting for Tamron 70-180 f/2.8 - if it performs well, I don't need an updated Sony zoom. I don't need ultra-fast primes and zooms for my photography, but I would like to play with T&S. Will try the Rokinon / Samyang 24mm T&S.

Of course, my preferences are usable for me only.

There was always a leap-frogging between companies wrt their offerings. Now that not only the sensor but software plays an important part part, the offerings will ultimately be very close (all have eye-AF, do deep learning etc.), not only the sensor will be important, but the algorithms, too, they can reduce sensor performance differences. Sony has one advantage, they are the biggest sensor producer for this market and they have a stacked sensor.

Canon just played catch up and the newest 1dxiii is able to compete with the A9 (three year old tech) in some aspects , The sensor readout speed is still low (1/60s).

So Sony's stacked sensor successor will again pave new ground and so on.

That doesn't mean that now other things become more important (e.g. losless compression, touch interface etc.).

Lens wise, I see Sony still clearly ahead. They now have a huge amount of native lenses from different manufacturers and excellent glass. The Canon f1.2 lenses are super large, heavy and expensive. They are very good, but so are the 50/1.4, 85GM, 24GM, 135GM, the Batis lenses, the Loxias, the Sigmas etc. etc. If you are not able to deliver with those lenses, you should change jobs or stop photographing altogether. I like those new lenses from Canon, but I also like the Sony lenses, they are fantastic. My skill is much more important than the difference in the relative lens sets.

------------------

https://www.instagram.com/brigittefoysi/

sacohcan · Mar 1, 2020

The Sony 70-200 f2.8 GM is not bigger or heavier than the Nikon one, for example. I’m happy with it. I like the fact that Canikon improve their ML cameras. It’s going to be good for us.

greg57 · Mar 1, 2020

I could definitely do with a LCD on the top plate on a slightly bigger body with a bigger grip. But that's pretty much it

--
Gregory Dziedzic
gregorydziedzic.com

garykohs · Mar 1, 2020

Funny Valentine said:
garykohs said:

I agree with Jared in his warnings for Sony video ... not his choice of political candidates!

The problem with being fine with the status quo (in cameras not political leaders) is that I was once also fine with my

Canon AE-1 Program and

Konica-Minolta Maxxum 7D

Sony currently makes the best, dollar for dollar and feature for feature, cameras in the world. And I'm really fond of the two I have. But competition, especially from Canon, is going to change the playing field. I think Jared's suggestions are well considered.

Click to expand...

Sorry but not that true anymore. Pentax, Panasonic and Olympus cameras are a lot more feature packed for less price when you include lenses to the equation.

Funny Valentine said:

None of this is news to the folks at Sony, obviously. And they are not going to follow the crowd. My guess is that Sony will continue to innovate in desirable directions. It's the vision thing.

Click to expand...

You simply must be kidding.

ilumo · Mar 1, 2020

Having used the A7r4 for the past 4 months and coming from Canon there are definitely some things I miss and wish Sony would include in their future bodies.
1. built in gps. I hate having to pair up my phone all the time. It has definitely gotten better with the more recent versions of imaging edge. But still can’t beat just having it on board. Plus the unit on the 5d4 was more accurate

2. I don’t mind the buffer times, but the fact that you can’t do anyhting in the menus when it is buffering is horrible. Either they fix that or use faster cards to avoid buffer. Doesn’t matter to me.

3. Slow review times. I chimp and when I do it takes 2-3 secs to review the images, zoom in, etc. while that’s not bad for one picture, when you have to review multiple, it adds up and really slows things down. Especially when you are trying to test for focus hits. The 5d4 was instant.

4.speed up review/shooting latency. When I review pictures and want to instantly go back to shooting, there’s a 1-2 sec lag before my viewfinder exits the picture review and back to allowing auto focus. That’s also made me miss a few shots. The 5d4 was instant. Now I have to prime it by half pressing the shutter release as soon as I’m done reviewing so I don’t have that lag.

5.improve remote live view shooting. I used to love to shoot remotely through my iPhone on the 5d4. I could select where to autofocus by touching any part of the screen. The Sony’s implementation is horrible. You can’t select. You just have to manually focus. Or allow full control to the camera.

that being said I still think Sony has the best sensor, the eye af is awesome, the full sensor 4K, the charging with usb c, and on and on. That I would still go with this over any of the current canon offerings. The r5 is real interesting and I’m keeping my eye on that though.

spytromics · Mar 1, 2020

I have reached the end of the constant cycle of hype and this camera is so much better than what you have now, so sell everything and spend $2,500 on a new body and another $2,000 on lenses.

teddoman · Mar 2, 2020

ZodiacPhoto said:
Please watch this, if you have time:

Hint: set playback speed to 1.5 to save your time.

Wow I can't believe I never knew about this. Great tip for dealing with tediously slow videos from folks who love the sound of their own voices. I set my playback speed to 2x and loved it. I might go 3x if they offered it though :-D

Tristimulus · Mar 2, 2020

Sony has asked for competition for quite a while. Now we see some contours.

Upping the game will benefit all (more buzz will expand the market) - exiting times

andrewD2 · Mar 2, 2020

There are lots of simple things I'd like to see e.g.

Consistent focus point colour choices across models.
Consistent AF options across models e.g. real time AF.
Lossless compression.
These really should be done by now.

Some harder issues like the lens range appearing to be a short term triumph of the marketing dept rather than a long term plan, I can't see that happening and it might not be vital.

No doubt the Canon and Nikon offerings are strong, Canon has some very expensive top quality lens options if you have the money and Nikon has a very consistent really nice rendering set of 1.8 primes.

Sony had two advantages with the early A7 series which helped get it on a roll, legacy glass adapters and EF mount adapters. Now those EF lens owners are thinking about an R5 if it isn't priced poorly compared to a A7III.

Andrew

Ferguson · Mar 2, 2020

Lan said:
Lan said:

Should Sony make innovative lenses, like f/2 zooms?

Click to expand...

Depends on how you define innovative?

I don't want or need lenses in excess of 1kg each.

I would actually prefer slower (f4 lenses) with higher performance. I don't shoot f4 because I can't afford f1.2, I shoot f4 because I value portability; which is the same reason I shoot Sony

And this is why it sucks to be Sony.

I know quite a few people with high end gear exactly like that.

I also know a lot of high end shooters like me - weight is way, way down the list, the lens needs to be fast and long and sharp; weight is a distant, distant fourth. Not because we want heavy (I love the light 400/2.8) but because light often comes at a price, and if it's aperture -- well, soccer fields are dark at night.

Yet many of both shooters want the same things otherwise - fast action, tracking, precise focus and lots of situational tweaks, high frame rate, deep buffer, etc.

A lot of us anxiously await the summer olympics, not because we go (or maybe even watch), but because that's when camera manufacturers pander to us for a while. ;-)

The birders/wildlife/landscape/portrait/wedding guys get it the other three years!

Do you agree with Jared ('A WARNING to Sony')?

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