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Marek M
Guest
That bis very impressive, in a very positive way. A great passion shines through your post.
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Should/do you keep you negatives
- Thread starter HamishGill
- Start date
Photovalve
Forum Enthusiast
I am a bit old school but I think it's really important to keep your negatives because:
- I might find a better way to scan them in the future (e.g. 16-bit instead of 8-bit)
- I might get back into a darkroom
- they are the original
- I don't use enough film for storage to be a problem
I keep all the negs I shoot nowadays, but then I darkroom print sometimes, and am also a bit of a hoarder - something which I don't think is that uncommon in the film community.... I keep slide film even though I'm not going to print from it or mount any simply because I think a sleeve of even bad slide shots looks lovely, and it's such an unusual thing nowadays.
When I was young and taking photos though I had no interest in negatives and wondered why I even got them back from Boots. The 6x4s were all I wanted and a camera was just the way to make them. I also wasn't as pretentious then and never thought that I might one day want to print them larger for a gallery exhibition or something.
I'd generally advise someone new to film to keep their negs (and organise them in some way) as they might later want to get into darkroom printing. I don't see any great reason to do so if you're sure you don't care about that and you're ok with the scans you have. Honestly the amount I print is minuscule anyway - I don't have space for a darkroom of my own and I haven't been back to the one I generally use for months now.
When I was young and taking photos though I had no interest in negatives and wondered why I even got them back from Boots. The 6x4s were all I wanted and a camera was just the way to make them. I also wasn't as pretentious then and never thought that I might one day want to print them larger for a gallery exhibition or something.
I'd generally advise someone new to film to keep their negs (and organise them in some way) as they might later want to get into darkroom printing. I don't see any great reason to do so if you're sure you don't care about that and you're ok with the scans you have. Honestly the amount I print is minuscule anyway - I don't have space for a darkroom of my own and I haven't been back to the one I generally use for months now.
Smaug01
Veteran Member
I've been shooting film off and on since the mid-80s.
Since the mid-90s, I've saved all of my negatives. All of them. The negatives of family and friends, I'm glad I still have. I re-scanned and printed a few of them, to the great delight of my family.
The others though? The artsy ones? They only serve to illustrate how far I've come. A lot of them I considered keepers in their day, but not any more.
My Advice: Bin the artsy ones after scanning and backing up. A simple back up to an external hard drive will do. JPG will do. But keep the family negatives in an archival binder in archival sleeves. You'll thank yourself, one day.
Since the mid-90s, I've saved all of my negatives. All of them. The negatives of family and friends, I'm glad I still have. I re-scanned and printed a few of them, to the great delight of my family.
The others though? The artsy ones? They only serve to illustrate how far I've come. A lot of them I considered keepers in their day, but not any more.
My Advice: Bin the artsy ones after scanning and backing up. A simple back up to an external hard drive will do. JPG will do. But keep the family negatives in an archival binder in archival sleeves. You'll thank yourself, one day.
HibikiTaisuna
Member
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I am happy that I kept my negatives after reentering film photography. Unfortunately I don't have all the photos I took during childhood anymore.
I bought a RPS10M for scanning about a year ago and re-scanned all the photos I took over the past 5 years in much higher quality. And now I started to visit a government sponsored darkroom in my town to print them. I might even get rid of the scanner and only do prints from now on, as this was kind of the missing link for me.
Keeping the negatives for future print copies and contact sheets is a plus for me. And to be honest they don't take up too much space as of now.
I bought a RPS10M for scanning about a year ago and re-scanned all the photos I took over the past 5 years in much higher quality. And now I started to visit a government sponsored darkroom in my town to print them. I might even get rid of the scanner and only do prints from now on, as this was kind of the missing link for me.
Keeping the negatives for future print copies and contact sheets is a plus for me. And to be honest they don't take up too much space as of now.
Although (or because?) I am working in IT, I don't have very much confidence in being sure all my digital information will be safe and readable for another 40 years.
Next to that, compared to the current scanning possibilities we might end up in way better scanned images in the coming 10 years.
Next to that, compared to the current scanning possibilities we might end up in way better scanned images in the coming 10 years.
Smaug01
Veteran Member
I don't know how good current scanners are for smaller formats, but I've read that flatbeds aren't the best.
Drum scanners are expensive and extinct.
But scanning with a digital camera and macro lens is easy with the Nikon ES-2 digitizing set. All you need is a macro lens or a normal lens with extension tube and something to adapt to the 52 or 62 mm filter thread of the ES-2.
I scan with my 16 MP Olympus E-M10.3. I leave some space around the edges for leveling, then crop into the scan, so it's maybe down to only 14 MP or so. Even so, with this smaller digital format, I'm able to easily resolve the grain, even 100 ASA film.
Flatbed scanners are not the way to go for scanning negatives/positives, esp. in 35 mm and smaller formats.
Good and detailed discussion is here, including a photo of my scanning set-up:
My point is that once we can resolve the grain of the film, what's the use in a better scan?
Drum scanners are expensive and extinct.
But scanning with a digital camera and macro lens is easy with the Nikon ES-2 digitizing set. All you need is a macro lens or a normal lens with extension tube and something to adapt to the 52 or 62 mm filter thread of the ES-2.
I scan with my 16 MP Olympus E-M10.3. I leave some space around the edges for leveling, then crop into the scan, so it's maybe down to only 14 MP or so. Even so, with this smaller digital format, I'm able to easily resolve the grain, even 100 ASA film.
Flatbed scanners are not the way to go for scanning negatives/positives, esp. in 35 mm and smaller formats.
Good and detailed discussion is here, including a photo of my scanning set-up:
My point is that once we can resolve the grain of the film, what's the use in a better scan?
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Marek M
Guest
There is more than only resolution to a scan. It seems to be a fairly limited view.
I have not scanned any negatives with a camera and a macro lens. Only with a flatbed , Epson V700.
Results, to me, are very good, customization of scans good as well. I printed 17 x 22 BW with very good results.
Smaug01
Veteran Member
I'm not putting down the V700; I've never used one. Word on the street is that quality and resolution with the camera scanning method are better.
Here's one of my recent scans, zoomable to full resolution
Do you have a full resolution V700 scan for comparison?
With that kind of quality, future improvements in scanning are not really a reason to save negs. Maybe scans from yesteryear vs. today, but not today vs. future.
In the future, they may streamline it even more. Someone will make similar rigs for 120 film for 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 and then 4x5", etc.
Parry Johnson
Senior Member
That's pretty much where I am, too. All my negatives are safely in sleeves, binders and storage boxes, but my scanners are all too old to efficiently scan the film. I've rephotographed negatives but reversing, colour correcting, merging sections for medium format, etc. makes it feasible for only a choice few special shots. The old scanners do well enough for basic "contact sheets" or 4x6 snapshot reprints.
I've got two enlargers, a dichroic for up to 6x7cm and my big condenser for B&W up to 4x5", plus a Bessler colour processor when needed. Getting back into the darkroom has been a "when I retire" project. The problem right now is that whenever I want to do any darkroom work, it takes so much time to clean it from misuse that it's overwhelming and I give up. I really do miss working with film, but the inconvenience is real.
400TX
New member
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I’ve got my 800+ rolls in neg binders and you can pry them out of my cold, dead hands.
In fact, that’s partially the intent.
Leaving precious memories solely in the digital realm when it takes minimal effort to keep the physical form they already come in seems a bit regressive to me.
#digitaldarkage?
In fact, that’s partially the intent.
Leaving precious memories solely in the digital realm when it takes minimal effort to keep the physical form they already come in seems a bit regressive to me.
#digitaldarkage?
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Marek M
Guest
I understand, I can't take sides, never used a camera to copy negatives.
But, I do not see how it could save time, where every negative has to be moved into position, when on a flatbed you can scan several at the same time.
I am sorry, I never post pics on line, by design and by principle. I share them directly with friends/people I know. I can see how it may sound hypocritical , but that's the way it is with me.
My pics were taken mostly with 100ASA, grain there is finer. I think max scanning resolution on V700 is 4000 DPI (or 6400 DPI), that is pretty good for my requirements.
V700 has a decent colour correction as well, you can click it on a pre-scan to see whether it is worth applying. It is on many old colour negatives, saves time in post processing. Mind you, I would not use any correction, even ICE on important pictures that I want to PP myself later.
Everybody has their preferences. I consider negatives as originals to be kept. I do not have that many to begin with, total of perhaps 10 000 or so, all in negative sleeves and in albums.
And by the way, scanning them took abt 1.5 years with the time I had available and wanted to commit to it.
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Marek M
Guest
Not only that, but availability of chemicals and darkroom supplies in general is limited to very few places. Even in cities like Toronto, the fourth largest city in North America.
snagglepuss1
New member
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I keep my important negs...always will.I'll relate an incident that happened to me ten years ago when my father passed away.Going through his thing I found a negative of his father (my grandfather) proudly standing in front of his Sopwith Camel in WWI...he was a pilot for the Brits.I was able to print a photo from that neg...nearly 100 years oldI shoot mostly digital now, and I religiously backup and update to new storage media when necessary. But what happens when I die? If my children decide to keep my hard drives, but they lay dormant for 50 years...when my grandchildren discover them (and my negs) at some point, will the technology they have be able to download 75 year old files...I doubt it. I still have some Syquest disc from what doesn't seem that long ago...can't find a Syquest drive anywhere.Nope...I'll keep my negs.
I buy a negative binder (slightly larger than a normal A4 binder) and a bunch of negative sleeves. I get my film processed uncut. After I scan it I cut it into sixes and put them in a sleeve in the binder.
Stick a label on the top corner with date, camera, film stock etc. and I'm done.
Stick a label on the top corner with date, camera, film stock etc. and I'm done.
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Marek M
Guest
I had it done only once, when negative was returned uncut. Rolled so tight as a thumb, I could never straighten it. I think they rolled it before it completely dried, it had many scratches. Company was going belly up at the time anyway, Black's , Film was not important, just testing. Black's closed soon after.
The sleeves I have have a white matte area on which you can write film info.
It does surprise me that anyone would consciously choose film then not keep their negatives, But as with most things, it’s entirely up to the conscious of the individual. I can’t look down on someone else if they choose an approach different from me.
My reasons for keeping negs are mostly the same as other above, but I’ll add one more personal thing. I work in computers, and at work, spending 8-10 hours a day on a computer, I have come to really hate using them. Or at least I have come to associate using them with drudgery. Firing up Lightroom or Photoshop creates a feeling of dread akin to firing up Excel, VSCode, or other horrible boring things. I don’t like that infecting what I love, so in my hobbies, I work towards a computer-free existence. I’m not truly there yet, but I have a darkroom, I’m learning enlarging/printing. So for that purpose alone, the negatives are necessary.
(I’ve already done the same thing with my other hobby, electronic music. While many electronic musicians have abandoned hardware studios for DAWs and software synthesizers, I work fully with hardware sequencers and synths to write music.)
My reasons for keeping negs are mostly the same as other above, but I’ll add one more personal thing. I work in computers, and at work, spending 8-10 hours a day on a computer, I have come to really hate using them. Or at least I have come to associate using them with drudgery. Firing up Lightroom or Photoshop creates a feeling of dread akin to firing up Excel, VSCode, or other horrible boring things. I don’t like that infecting what I love, so in my hobbies, I work towards a computer-free existence. I’m not truly there yet, but I have a darkroom, I’m learning enlarging/printing. So for that purpose alone, the negatives are necessary.
(I’ve already done the same thing with my other hobby, electronic music. While many electronic musicians have abandoned hardware studios for DAWs and software synthesizers, I work fully with hardware sequencers and synths to write music.)
Parry Johnson
Senior Member
There was a time when I I used three or four different B&W film developers and a couple different paper developers, several paper bases; dichroic, tray and under-lens filters, toners, reducers, etc. etc. Simplification is the way to go -- if I can't get good results with only a few basic supplies, I should just stick to digital. For me, the biggest problem currently is finding SMALL chemical batches -- I really miss Agfa and their C41 and E6 kits -- they were readily available, convenient to use and cheap.
i got into darkroom work as an impoverished teenager and student -- it was the only way I could afford to do photography at that time. When digital first became available, the quality was nowhere close to what I could achieve with film (still can't for 4x5, but that's another thread!).
But to keep this post on-topic, having all those negatives still allow me to go back and make even better prints today than ever. With technology advances for film, optics, developing, and archival methods (including digital reproduction), an image captured with today's optics through to the final silver print can still be outstanding, and likely even better in the future. In the end, destroying a negative is the worst thing to do, as you can't simply artificially produce / interpolate / AI something into existence that doesn't already exist -- that "law of matter" applies to photography and optical physics as well.
mamallama
Forum Pro
Very interesting and elaborate darkroom plans. Be sure to post images of the finished darkroom when it is completed and, of course, some print results you produce. Are the equipment leftovers from the past or are you still acquiring some of it? When I built my darkroom years ago the feature I was most proud of was a very quiet vacuum easel with the vacuum motor mounted outside.
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Marek M
Guest
Just a little light note. Years ago I had a chuckle when I saw ads for a new tv set , advertising how great their picture quality was, while watching it on my old tv set. Funny, funny, funny.
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