F700 only $30 more than s400, is it a "recommended" now?

Jon Gellman · Oct 13, 2003

If the major criticism of the f700 as a full featured compact camera (rather than as a marginal revolution in DR) was a $600 price, I wonder what Phil would say now?

Pricegrabber.com comparisons of "bottom line" prices for NJ.

F700-$416
S400-$386

These were not anomalous or refurb prices. Actually the vendor with the best f700 price was $398.85 for the s400.

zzh · Oct 13, 2003

Jon Gellman said:
If the major criticism of the f700 as a full featured compact
camera (rather than as a marginal revolution in DR) was a $600
price, I wonder what Phil would say now?

Pricegrabber.com comparisons of "bottom line" prices for NJ.

F700-$416
S400-$386

These were not anomalous or refurb prices. Actually the vendor with
the best f700 price was $398.85 for the s400.

chris gunn · Oct 13, 2003

Jon Gellman said:
Pricegrabber.com comparisons of "bottom line" prices for NJ.

F700-$416
S400-$386

At A&M, it is $389 (and the s400 is $364) and S5000 is $300.

Now, I suspect the S5000 is actually marginally more expensive to
make, so we should expect the F700 to sell for under $300 within a year.

http://www.amphotoworld.com/product.asp?id=fjfpf700

--
cheers!

Gunn
CF data base:
http://www.finepix.nl/memcards/

Raist3d · Oct 13, 2003

Jon Gellman said:
If the major criticism of the f700 as a full featured compact
camera (rather than as a marginal revolution in DR) was a $600
price, I wonder what Phil would say now?

Pricegrabber.com comparisons of "bottom line" prices for NJ.

F700-$416
S400-$386

These were not anomalous or refurb prices. Actually the vendor with
the best f700 price was $398.85 for the s400.

If you absolutely need manual controls, or can't resist the video go F700. Otherwise heavily consider the S400. I think overall without much hassle, the S400 takes overall better pictures, unless you are in one of those "need dynamic range" situations.

Raist

David314 · Oct 13, 2003

Raist3d said:
Jon Gellman said:

If the major criticism of the f700 as a full featured compact
camera (rather than as a marginal revolution in DR) was a $600
price, I wonder what Phil would say now?

Click to expand...

let's see

Phil had four cons that appear to be software related -

tone curve too 'contrasty'
sharpening algorithmm too harsh
not enough lattitude (or fineness) of adjustment in image parameters
no direct adjustment for tone or color saturation

a couple of hardware issues

price

So take out the price issue, and.... well, regardless of what Phil stated, I don't think price really was the biggest weight in his decision, the S400 value for money was 7.5 out of ten and the F700 was 7.0. Where the F700 really took a hit in the ratings was image quality, and that is the bottom line for Phil, what is his assessment of image quality. Features, etc, really aren't weighted as heavily. I would guess Phil's opinion wouldn't change much just for price. Just my opinion

.

Now personally, i think fuji could address these issues in firmware with adding more adjustments

And that is the most perplexing thing here, not that Fuji released the SR CCD in a small camera (a pretty interesting move), but that Fuji released the SR in a camera without firmware to show it off.

Come on, a simple enable disable SR item in the menu would have been nifty to show it off. Or allowing the user to change the tone curve to improve contrast in the shadows or highlights. How about savings the two sensore images as separate jpegs? How about some control of the super imposing algorithm?

No fine compression? Your camera has a great CCD, fine lens and then you put out a highly compressed image? This is not showing off your camera.

And, the raw conversion program gives you no options (although that might change).

Member said:
If you absolutely need manual controls, or can't resist the video
go F700. Otherwise heavily consider the S400. I think overall
without much hassle, the S400 takes overall better pictures, unless
you are in one of those "need dynamic range" situations.

Raist

I don't know about the S400 but the F700 does have a better real world flash mode then the S230. The lack of shutter speed contol is a real minus for the S400 in my opinion and i believe it only has a couple of discrete aperture settings? However, all in all, the S400 does take very nice pictures from what i have seen. Some very nice colors from Canon products.

David

chris gunn · Oct 13, 2003

David314 said:
world flash mode then the S230. The lack of shutter speed contol
is a real minus for the S400 in my opinion and i believe it only

I would never buy it for myself. I've recommended it to my cousin though.

David314 said:
has a couple of discrete aperture settings? However, all in all,

No, only one aperture.

David314 said:
the S400 does take very nice pictures from what i have seen. Some

I've seen some bad ones on pbase.

--
cheers!

Gunn
CF data base:
http://www.finepix.nl/memcards/

Raist3d · Oct 13, 2003

David314 said:
Raist3d said:

Jon Gellman said:

If the major criticism of the f700 as a full featured compact
camera (rather than as a marginal revolution in DR) was a $600
price, I wonder what Phil would say now?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

let's see

Phil had four cons that appear to be software related -

tone curve too 'contrasty'
sharpening algorithmm too harsh
not enough lattitude (or fineness) of adjustment in image parameters
no direct adjustment for tone or color saturation

a couple of hardware issues

price

So take out the price issue, and.... well, regardless of what Phil
stated, I don't think price really was the biggest weight in his
decision, the S400 value for money was 7.5 out of ten and the F700
was 7.0. Where the F700 really took a hit in the ratings was image
quality, and that is the bottom line for Phil, what is his
assessment of image quality. Features, etc, really aren't weighted
as heavily. I would guess Phil's opinion wouldn't change much just
for price. Just my opinion .

Now personally, i think fuji could address these issues in firmware
with adding more adjustments

And that is the most perplexing thing here, not that Fuji released
the SR CCD in a small camera (a pretty interesting move), but that
Fuji released the SR in a camera without firmware to show it off.

Ditto & Bingo both at once!

David314 said:
Come on, a simple enable disable SR item in the menu would have
been nifty to show it off. Or allowing the user to change the tone
curve to improve contrast in the shadows or highlights. How about
savings the two sensore images as separate jpegs? How about some
control of the super imposing algorithm?

But you see, what you are suggesting seems to me like common sense.. and for some reason I can't still explain, Fuji seems to be lacking that in virtually their entire current line

Seriously, Fuji has done the equivalent of putting a man on the moon only to say "oh yeah, we didn't include a parachute for landing.. oops!".

They clearly have the know how to do something cool, yet they missed a couple of basic simple things. I still don't understand it.

I sincerely wish they would make a firmware upgrade, but I am certainly not holding my breath.

David314 said:
No fine compression? Your camera has a great CCD, fine lens and
then you put out a highly compressed image? This is not showing
off your camera.

And, the raw conversion program gives you no options (although that
might change).

David314 said:

If you absolutely need manual controls, or can't resist the video
go F700. Otherwise heavily consider the S400. I think overall
without much hassle, the S400 takes overall better pictures, unless
you are in one of those "need dynamic range" situations.

Raist

Click to expand...

I don't know about the S400 but the F700 does have a better real
world flash mode then the S230. The lack of shutter speed contol
is a real minus for the S400 in my opinion and i believe it only
has a couple of discrete aperture settings? However, all in all,
the S400 does take very nice pictures from what i have seen. Some
very nice colors from Canon products.

Yes, and that's my point. The S400 pictures are really nice.. and the white balance is definitively better than Fuji's.

Raist

David314 said:
David

Raist3d · Oct 13, 2003

chris gunn said:
David314 said:

world flash mode then the S230. The lack of shutter speed contol
is a real minus for the S400 in my opinion and i believe it only

Click to expand...

I would never buy it for myself. I've recommended it to my cousin
though.

chris gunn said:

has a couple of discrete aperture settings? However, all in all,

Click to expand...

No, only one aperture.

This is not correct, the S400 has at least two apertures.

However, you can't control them manually except indirectly using an exposure lock-which can be locked independently of the focus. This is also true of the S230, and I used this trick all the time.

Raist

chris gunn said:
chris gunn said:

the S400 does take very nice pictures from what i have seen. Some

Click to expand...

I've seen some bad ones on pbase.

--
cheers!

Gunn
CF data base:
http://www.finepix.nl/memcards/

chris gunn · Oct 13, 2003

Raist3d said:
Member said:

Member said:

has a couple of discrete aperture settings? However, all in all,

Click to expand...

No, only one aperture.

Click to expand...

This is not correct, the S400 has at least two apertures.

The 'second aperture' is the same aperture, with a ND filter slid into place.

--
cheers!

Gunn
CF data base:
http://www.finepix.nl/memcards/

Raist3d · Oct 14, 2003

chris gunn said:
Raist3d said:

chris gunn said:

chris gunn said:

has a couple of discrete aperture settings? However, all in all,

Click to expand...

No, only one aperture.

Click to expand...

This is not correct, the S400 has at least two apertures.

Click to expand...

The 'second aperture' is the same aperture, with a ND filter slid
into place.

Pardon my skepticism, but where is this information from? That sounds odd. But I don't have an S400 so I can't tell.

Raist

chris gunn said:
--
cheers!

Gunn
CF data base:
http://www.finepix.nl/memcards/

kyutip · Oct 14, 2003

You do realize that the lowest prices that comes from search engine usually came from unscrupulous dealer.

That is not a true representation of a camera price.
Heck, F717 is a better deal at $509 (I think I saw this somewhere).

If you want to compare prices, use at least bhphotovideo, buy.com, j&r or something that is reputable.

--
http://www.pbase.com/bochie

Thomas120451 · Oct 14, 2003

kyutip said:
You do realize that the lowest prices that comes from search engine
usually came from unscrupulous dealer.

That is not a true representation of a camera price.
Heck, F717 is a better deal at $509 (I think I saw this somewhere).

If you want to compare prices, use at least bhphotovideo, buy.com,
j&r or something that is reputable.

--
http://www.pbase.com/bochie

--
-Gee,Brain.What do you wanna do tonight?
-The same thing we do every night,Pinky.Try to compare cameras!

Jon Gellman · Oct 14, 2003

Not only do I think cameras can be purchased from places in Brooklyn, but I've done it! You just have to have realistic expectations of the customer service you may get. You pay for what you get with the top tier vendors. It's a personal choice to spend $100 for that. Some people will buy on ebay to save that much. I won't, my personal line. Actually my comments were to the price DIFFERENCE, not the actual price, although that's notable too.

As to the 717 recommendation, It's an extension of so many talking past each other discussions of the f700. They're 2 completely different format Cameras!!!! One is a vga video pocket compact, the other an SLR type, though excellent, that is not. It's like telling someone that's looking at family sedans that you can get a great motorcycle for the same price. So what?

kyutip said:
You do realize that the lowest prices that comes from search engine
usually came from unscrupulous dealer.

That is not a true representation of a camera price.
Heck, F717 is a better deal at $509 (I think I saw this somewhere).

If you want to compare prices, use at least bhphotovideo, buy.com,
j&r or something that is reputable.

--
http://www.pbase.com/bochie

Raist3d · Oct 14, 2003

Jon Gellman said:
Not only do I think cameras can be purchased from places in
Brooklyn, but I've done it! You just have to have realistic
expectations of the customer service you may get. You pay for what
you get with the top tier vendors. It's a personal choice to spend
$100 for that. Some people will buy on ebay to save that much. I
won't, my personal line. Actually my comments were to the price
DIFFERENCE, not the actual price, although that's notable too.

As to the 717 recommendation, It's an extension of so many talking
past each other discussions of the f700. They're 2 completely
different format Cameras!!!! One is a vga video pocket compact, the
other an SLR type, though excellent, that is not. It's like telling
someone that's looking at family sedans that you can get a great
motorcycle for the same price. So what?

I would have to agree with the reply of checking the vendor. Maybe you just got lucky. If you get a faulty camera, then you will be in for a sad sad sad time.

Raist

Jon Gellman said:
kyutip said:

You do realize that the lowest prices that comes from search engine
usually came from unscrupulous dealer.

That is not a true representation of a camera price.
Heck, F717 is a better deal at $509 (I think I saw this somewhere).

If you want to compare prices, use at least bhphotovideo, buy.com,
j&r or something that is reputable.

--
http://www.pbase.com/bochie

Click to expand...

Thomas120451 · Oct 14, 2003

kyutip said:
That is not a true representation of a camera price.
Heck, F717 is a better deal at $509 (I think I saw this somewhere).

The lowest price from a respectable dealer is $625(but accessories are very expensive so they don't seem as trust-worthy as their Bizrate rating would imply).

The lowest price from a top rated dealer is $670.I think there's a $75 rebate this would mean their price is just under 600.The F700 is just over $400.
--
-Gee,Brain.What do you wanna do tonight?
-The same thing we do every night,Pinky.Try to compare cameras!

kyutip · Oct 14, 2003

that if the price came from unreputable dealer, you can get better camera at much lower price although I wouldn't recommend anyone to purchase it.

I'm not comparing F717 to F700 by any means.
It's just an example.

It's better to be careful than be sorry for a long time.
$400 is not a chump change.

--
http://www.pbase.com/bochie

Jon Gellman · Oct 14, 2003

The most I expect from a vendor is a 30 day warrantee. Many give less, for less money. My security blanket is using a platinum credit card from a major bank that will back me up in case of fraud. It will also give an extra year on Manufacturers warrantees. I wouldn't trust Bank One, etc, although I have no negative experience.

I buy electronics on the net quite a bit, but I've only had to resort to the Bank CS once, for a monitor that never shipped. Positive outcome.The only time I've used the warrantee feature was for a Kenmore range!(incredibly poor design, remember the ranges that would last generations!)

kyutip said:
that if the price came from unreputable dealer, you can get better
camera at much lower price although I wouldn't recommend anyone to
purchase it.

I'm not comparing F717 to F700 by any means.
It's just an example.

It's better to be careful than be sorry for a long time.
$400 is not a chump change.

--
http://www.pbase.com/bochie

Vitek · Oct 14, 2003

holy smoke I just paid $799 here in Canada and just arrived here, you know it tkes long time to come here for up north

chris gunn said:
Jon Gellman said:

Pricegrabber.com comparisons of "bottom line" prices for NJ.

F700-$416
S400-$386

Click to expand...

At A&M, it is $389 (and the s400 is $364) and S5000 is $300.

Now, I suspect the S5000 is actually marginally more expensive to
make, so we should expect the F700 to sell for under $300 within a
year.

http://www.amphotoworld.com/product.asp?id=fjfpf700

--
cheers!

Gunn
CF data base:
http://www.finepix.nl/memcards/

chris gunn · Oct 15, 2003

Vitek said:
holy smoke I just paid $799 here in Canada and just arrived here,
you know it tkes long time to come here for up north

Vitek said:
Vitek said:

At A&M, it is $389 (and the s400 is $364) and S5000 is $300.

Click to expand...

I had a look through all the disatisfied A&M customers at...
Reseller Ratings (Is that the name?).

It sounds like a bit of a nightmare of a company. It seems they basically
won't sell to you unless you also buy an expensive warentee,
batteries etc. Plus horrible to deal with, big sales pitch etc.

--
cheers!

Gunn
CF data base:
http://www.finepix.nl/memcards/

F700 only $30 more than s400, is it a "recommended" now?

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