What will specific circumstances will IBIS give you a benefit ?

Kumsa · Feb 8, 2020

Now that Canonistas are being tantalized with the promise of IBIS in an R frame, I'm curious to understand what will be the envisioned real-world benefit ? My IS lenses work really well for my purposes.

I"m not being snarky, or engaging in a luddite dismissal of new tech.
Personally, I'm mostly just doing still photography, and a lot of stabilization is for hand-held situations, as in video.
A lot of my photography is always going to be on a tripod (studio portraiture), or at a shutter speed that obviates the benefit of stabilization.
I appreciate that there will be some advantages: manual lens adaption would benefit); or maybe the new Rs would get pixelshift capability for higher resolution.

So, I'm asking to be educated. For instance, I never appreciated the amazing, magical, utility of the EVF on my R. I found the heads-up details to be game changing.

What's a possible image that I would fail to capture with an IS lens versus an IBIS enabled camera ?

stevvi · Feb 8, 2020

Kumsa said:
Now that Canonistas are being tantalized with the promise of IBIS in an R frame, I'm curious to understand what will be the envisioned real-world benefit ? My IS lenses work really well for my purposes.

I"m not being snarky, or engaging in a luddite dismissal of new tech.

Personally, I'm mostly just doing still photography, and a lot of stabilization is for hand-held situations, as in video.

A lot of my photography is always going to be on a tripod (studio portraiture), or at a shutter speed that obviates the benefit of stabilization.

I appreciate that there will be some advantages: manual lens adaption would benefit); or maybe the new Rs would get pixelshift capability for higher resolution.

So, I'm asking to be educated. For instance, I never appreciated the amazing, magical, utility of the EVF on my R. I found the heads-up details to be game changing.

What's a possible image that I would fail to capture with an IS lens versus an IBIS enabled camera ?

Some of the RF lenses don't have IS. Other than that, today I was out without tripod and took a few shots of running water at 1/3 sec with 100-400 IS ii at 100mm. Only one was just about usable as my ageing arms aren't as strong or steady as they used to be.

But I do agree in the main. Lots of people seem to think IBIS is some sort of Holy Grail.

Astrophotographer 10 · Feb 8, 2020

Handheld primes with no stabilisation allows shorter exposure times in dim areas like insides of Cathedrals, museums etc. This allows you to use a slower prime in dimmer light without having to have a fast lens to get a decent exposure. Suddenly an F4 lens is fine whereas before it may really need F2.8 or faster to be practical. This allows you to use high quality F4 lenses that are cheaper than their faster models.

Easier to get a clear photo of family indoors where the light is often challenged.

Lenses with stabilisation work with the IBIS for the extra axes to be stabilised making them even more stable.

Video is not jittery and shaky.

Easier to manually focus as the scene in the EVF becomes more stable on a half shutter press. Longer focal length lenses tend to be jittery when manually focused and IBIS counters that to a large degree.

Old legacy lenses become stabilised.

IBIS just works in the background and helps ensure your photos are routinely sharp and less often blurred from movement when you take the photo. Its a bit like an insurance policy that you will get the shot.

I have been using Sony A7rii and iii for a few years now and you take it for granted but its advantages are definitely there.

There are downsides to IBIS;

It can allow people to use poor technique and "get away with it".

It can heat the sensor in a longer exposure more than one without IBIS. So if using it for nightscapes or landscape long exposure you may get more noise after taking a few shots.

You have to remember to turn it off when putting the camera on a tripod. Sony has it several pages along in their menu's. So its not an instant find.

Its just another complication that could fail and make the camera break.

Its just another parameter to set in an already complex menu with pages of items.

It uses more battery so the battery life would be less.

It adds weight and size to the camera. Sony A7rii was slightly larger and heavier than the A7r due to IBIS.

Its not instant so you need to remember to pause for half a second or so for it to become active and set.

There may be other downsides as well.

Greg.

Kumsa · Feb 8, 2020

Thanks for the pros/cons outlook. It's informative and a useful reflection of your experience.

Astrophotographer 10 · Feb 8, 2020

Kumsa said:
Thanks for the pros/cons outlook. It's informative and a useful reflection of your experience.

Your welcome. Overall I like IBIS but for nightscapes I would prefer a camera without it due to the noise penalty.

There is one other major benefit of a mature IBIS and that is pixel shift. I find that a useful feature. Limited in its application but useful when you want max resolution and best colour on a static subject. I also use it with nightscapes with a tracking mount.

Greg.

justmeMN · Feb 9, 2020

Kumsa said:
Now that Canonistas are being tantalized with the promise of IBIS in an R frame, I'm curious to understand what will be the envisioned real-world benefit ?

The inclusion of IBIS will give Canon's critics one less thing to complain about.

David Hull · Feb 9, 2020

Astrophotographer 10 said:
Kumsa said:

Thanks for the pros/cons outlook. It's informative and a useful reflection of your experience.

Click to expand...

Your welcome. Overall I like IBIS but for nightscapes I would prefer a camera without it due to the noise penalty.

I assume this relates to this comment in your list:

It can heat the sensor in a longer exposure more than one without IBIS. So if using it for nightscapes or landscape long exposure you may get more noise after taking a few shots.

I am not sure how this comes about, what would be the mechanism for it?

Otherwise an excellent treatise on the pros and cons of the feature.

Astrophotographer 10 said:
There is one other major benefit of a mature IBIS and that is pixel shift. I find that a useful feature. Limited in its application but useful when you want max resolution and best colour on a static subject. I also use it with nightscapes with a tracking mount.

Greg.

Sittatunga · Feb 9, 2020

David Hull said:
Astrophotographer 10 said:

Kumsa said:

Thanks for the pros/cons outlook. It's informative and a useful reflection of your experience.

Click to expand...

Your welcome. Overall I like IBIS but for nightscapes I would prefer a camera without it due to the noise penalty.

Click to expand...

I assume this relates to this comment in your list:

It can heat the sensor in a longer exposure more than one without IBIS. So if using it for nightscapes or landscape long exposure you may get more noise after taking a few shots.

I am not sure how this comes about, what would be the mechanism for it?

The First Law of Thermodynamics.

Any practical motor will produce waste heat, some of which will be conducted into the sensor mount. A sensor screwed into a metal chassis will dissipate heat by conduction more easily than one supported on electromagnets.

David Hull said:
Otherwise an excellent treatise on the pros and cons of the feature.

David Hull said:

There is one other major benefit of a mature IBIS and that is pixel shift. I find that a useful feature. Limited in its application but useful when you want max resolution and best colour on a static subject. I also use it with nightscapes with a tracking mount.

Greg.

Click to expand...

--
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ZX11 · Feb 9, 2020

Kumsa said:
Now that Canonistas are being tantalized with the promise of IBIS in an R frame, I'm curious to understand what will be the envisioned real-world benefit ? My IS lenses work really well for my purposes.

I"m not being snarky, or engaging in a luddite dismissal of new tech.

Personally, I'm mostly just doing still photography, and a lot of stabilization is for hand-held situations, as in video.

A lot of my photography is always going to be on a tripod (studio portraiture), or at a shutter speed that obviates the benefit of stabilization.

I appreciate that there will be some advantages: manual lens adaption would benefit); or maybe the new Rs would get pixelshift capability for higher resolution.

So, I'm asking to be educated. For instance, I never appreciated the amazing, magical, utility of the EVF on my R. I found the heads-up details to be game changing.

What's a possible image that I would fail to capture with an IS lens versus an IBIS enabled camera ?

The IS lens negates the advantage of IBIS. IBIS is just one of many methods available to stabilize the camera/image. Lens IS or a tripod/monopod are other methods.

BIS is mostly useless to me due to my ownership of IS lens, tendency to use monopods, and the great light were I am. Furthermore, my family and animal subjects don't hold still for the photo, so slow shutters stabilized by IBIS result in blurry subjects.

IBIS only seems helpful if you are in a specific scenario where four or five horrible things (no IS lens, low light, etc) are happening to you at once, and the subject is dead.

TheVancouverGuy · Feb 9, 2020

According to rumors lens IS can be work with IBIS for more stops of stabilization.

David Hull · Feb 9, 2020

Sittatunga said:
David Hull said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

Kumsa said:

Thanks for the pros/cons outlook. It's informative and a useful reflection of your experience.

Click to expand...

Your welcome. Overall I like IBIS but for nightscapes I would prefer a camera without it due to the noise penalty.

Click to expand...

I assume this relates to this comment in your list:

It can heat the sensor in a longer exposure more than one without IBIS. So if using it for nightscapes or landscape long exposure you may get more noise after taking a few shots.

I am not sure how this comes about, what would be the mechanism for it?

Click to expand...

The First Law of Thermodynamics.

Any practical motor will produce waste heat, some of which will be conducted into the sensor mount. A sensor screwed into a metal chassis will dissipate heat by conduction more easily than one supported on electromagnets.

Sittatunga said:

Otherwise an excellent treatise on the pros and cons of the feature.

Sittatunga said:

There is one other major benefit of a mature IBIS and that is pixel shift. I find that a useful feature. Limited in its application but useful when you want max resolution and best colour on a static subject. I also use it with nightscapes with a tracking mount.

Greg.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Yea, that makes sense. Now my question would be: is this significant. For the motor heat, I assume you can turn the thing off when on a tripod or astronomical mount.

RDM5546 · Feb 9, 2020

Many lenses already good stabilization built in and I think nano usm lenses probably will stabilize better than IBIS alone. Apparently using both improves stability much more. All of these fstops of help in reducing the ISO are great as long as the subject does not move.

Many lenses are made without stabilization because the maker made a decision about their opinion of what the market wants. I have a EF135mmf2L and a EF180f3.5L which are outstanding lenses but have no stabilization.

Both lenses are used all time in situations where stabilization would help but apparently market is not huge or Canon would have made one. Even the good Sigma 135 f1.8 ART has no stabilization.

I suppose the stabilization would make the already huge lenses even bigger to handle the huge glass. Look at the RF 85mmf1.2L with no stabilization. These are not short focal lengths and maybe are borderline telephotos without stabilization and no alternatives available at higher price.

Big glass is hard and expensive where it really essential like the EF 400mm f/2.8L IS III USM IS Canon shows it is possible for big glass to have shake reduction for up to 5 shutter speed stops in this lens. It definitely is not cheap!! Much cheaper quality lenses are available without this quality high cost IS.

gium · Feb 9, 2020

Kumsa said:
..
What's a possible image that I would fail to capture with an IS lens versus an IBIS enabled camera ?

When there is no big performance difference in the way they are stabilized, let's say both are "4 stops stabilized", then there is no image to show you the difference. Because then the IBIS performs about the same as the lens IS.

But to give you a real world example: I have a 70-200 IS which is stabilized. It's relatively heavy and after a few hours of a really busy day (eg. a wedding) I do feel that weight and my hand is not that steady anymore after about 8 hours. I love the IS in my 70-200 that gives the viewfinder a more stabilized image.

I don't have that for my 85/1.2. It'd be nice to have that for my 85/1.2.

Also my 35/1.4 would be stabilized with IBIS. Nice to have for those candle lit shots of whatever that requires shutter speeds slower than 1/8th (1/8th is about the slowest I can go with a 35mm without IS and still get consistent sharp photos. Yes I know how to use proper technique).

And for more recreational purposes: I have an old 100-300L that I take to the zoo or other family outings as it is light and black. I'd love to have IS on that one as well.

Raucous Raven · Feb 9, 2020

I'm not expecting to notice a significant benefit unless I'm shooting with an unstabilized lens. I switched to the EOS R from an Olympus E-M1 that, when it came out, was known for having effective IBIS. The IS on the third party telephoto that I used with it was much better at long lengths (where I really needed it) and so I frequently didn't use the IBIS on that camera. I've also found the IS on the RF 24-105 to work well. I suppose if Canon supports dual lens/body IS I'll see a benefit even with stabilized lenses but at the shutter speeds we'd be talking about I'm usually more concerned about motion in the scene anyway.

The pixel shift option mentioned above would be nice to have. Supporting the lens and body IS working together would encourage us to buy Canon lenses for our Canon cameras so there's a benefit to Canon there.

ZX11 · Feb 9, 2020

gium said:
gium said:

..

What's a possible image that I would fail to capture with an IS lens versus an IBIS enabled camera ?

Click to expand...

When there is no big performance difference in the way they are stabilized, let's say both are "4 stops stabilized", then there is no image to show you the difference. Because then the IBIS performs about the same as the lens IS.

But to give you a real world example: I have a 70-200 IS which is stabilized. It's relatively heavy and after a few hours of a really busy day (eg. a wedding) I do feel that weight and my hand is not that steady anymore after about 8 hours. I love the IS in my 70-200 that gives the viewfinder a more stabilized image.

I don't have that for my 85/1.2. It'd be nice to have that for my 85/1.2.

Also my 35/1.4 would be stabilized with IBIS. Nice to have for those candle lit shots of whatever that requires shutter speeds slower than 1/8th (1/8th is about the slowest I can go with a 35mm without IS and still get consistent sharp photos. Yes I know how to use proper technique).

And for more recreational purposes: I have an old 100-300L that I take to the zoo or other family outings as it is light and black. I'd love to have IS on that one as well.

You don't have a tripod or monopod? Try a Sirui or Manfroto? They have the folding three feet monopod so it can stand on its own. They seem to be the solution for stabilizing and holding weight.

--
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"He's dead, Jim! You grab his tri-corder. I'll get his wallet."

janez · Feb 9, 2020

Kumsa said:
Now that Canonistas are being tantalized with the promise of IBIS in an R frame, I'm curious to understand what will be the envisioned real-world benefit ? My IS lenses work really well for my purposes.

I"m not being snarky, or engaging in a luddite dismissal of new tech.

Personally, I'm mostly just doing still photography, and a lot of stabilization is for hand-held situations, as in video.

A lot of my photography is always going to be on a tripod (studio portraiture), or at a shutter speed that obviates the benefit of stabilization.

I appreciate that there will be some advantages: manual lens adaption would benefit); or maybe the new Rs would get pixelshift capability for higher resolution.

So, I'm asking to be educated. For instance, I never appreciated the amazing, magical, utility of the EVF on my R. I found the heads-up details to be game changing.

What's a possible image that I would fail to capture with an IS lens versus an IBIS enabled camera ?

I hope IBIS is not going to bring the dust problem (like some people are complaining at Sony). I hope Canon piezo-electric system is compatible with IBIS.

gium · Feb 9, 2020

ZX11 said:
gium said:

ZX11 said:

..

What's a possible image that I would fail to capture with an IS lens versus an IBIS enabled camera ?

Click to expand...

When there is no big performance difference in the way they are stabilized, let's say both are "4 stops stabilized", then there is no image to show you the difference. Because then the IBIS performs about the same as the lens IS.

But to give you a real world example: I have a 70-200 IS which is stabilized. It's relatively heavy and after a few hours of a really busy day (eg. a wedding) I do feel that weight and my hand is not that steady anymore after about 8 hours. I love the IS in my 70-200 that gives the viewfinder a more stabilized image.

I don't have that for my 85/1.2. It'd be nice to have that for my 85/1.2.

Also my 35/1.4 would be stabilized with IBIS. Nice to have for those candle lit shots of whatever that requires shutter speeds slower than 1/8th (1/8th is about the slowest I can go with a 35mm without IS and still get consistent sharp photos. Yes I know how to use proper technique).

And for more recreational purposes: I have an old 100-300L that I take to the zoo or other family outings as it is light and black. I'd love to have IS on that one as well.

Click to expand...

You don't have a tripod or monopod? Try a Sirui or Manfroto? They have the folding three feet monopod so it can stand on its own. They seem to be the solution for stabilizing and holding weight.

David Hull · Feb 9, 2020

justmeMN said:
Kumsa said:

Now that Canonistas are being tantalized with the promise of IBIS in an R frame, I'm curious to understand what will be the envisioned real-world benefit ?

Click to expand...

The inclusion of IBIS will give Canon's critics one less thing to complain about.

LOL -- don't worry though, Canon critics have been found to be very resourceful. After all, they've had years of practice.

Henry Richardson · Feb 10, 2020

Kumsa said:
Now that Canonistas are being tantalized with the promise of IBIS in an R frame, I'm curious to understand what will be the envisioned real-world benefit ? My IS lenses work really well for my purposes.

From your post it appears that you see no benefit to IS. Why did you buy IS lenses? Is it safe to assume you always have IS turned off on your IS lenses?

Astrophotographer 10 · Feb 10, 2020

David Hull said:
Astrophotographer 10 said:

Kumsa said:

Thanks for the pros/cons outlook. It's informative and a useful reflection of your experience.

Click to expand...

Your welcome. Overall I like IBIS but for nightscapes I would prefer a camera without it due to the noise penalty.

Click to expand...

I assume this relates to this comment in your list:

It can heat the sensor in a longer exposure more than one without IBIS. So if using it for nightscapes or landscape long exposure you may get more noise after taking a few shots.

I am not sure how this comes about, what would be the mechanism for it?

Otherwise an excellent treatise on the pros and cons of the feature.

David Hull said:

There is one other major benefit of a mature IBIS and that is pixel shift. I find that a useful feature. Limited in its application but useful when you want max resolution and best colour on a static subject. I also use it with nightscapes with a tracking mount.

Greg.

Click to expand...

To be fair it is from others posts and I have not noticed a noise penalty but I do turn IBIS off for nightscapes.

Oly cameras have a heat sensor and its able to be read in the Exif file. One thread talked about the sensor getting up to 85C which I found surprising. I am not 100% sure about the IBIS mechanism when turned off but its an electromagnetic mechanism that makes the sensor float. It may turn on when used even with the IBIS turned off. On that point I am not sure.

Greg

What will specific circumstances will IBIS give you a benefit ?

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