I'm just going to jump right in here with a beginner question

Like a lot of people who come to this forum, I'm a stills photographer wanting to learn videos (I'm sure you've all heard that a million times here).

I have a temporary break from shooting and editing coming up and I'm going to dive into learning how to shoot/edit videos and to that end I've just downloaded DaVinci Resolve 16.

I know there's a steep learning curve, which has put me off before, but I'm gonna get it done.

But this isn't a detailed "how do I shoot a video" thread, I've actually distilled it down to a question I haven't seen specifically asked:

Which video file format should I learn with? I know I know, whatever my camera shoots. I have two choices at the moment, my D7200 and a point and shoot from the past, a Canon 330. They both shoot in MOV.

I looked at the Z50 and you have a choice of MOV or MP4. I suppose it matters because Nikon gives you a choice but ultimately is one better to start learning about video?

Am I hamstringing myself by learning with the MOV format or, ultimately does it matter?

It doesn't really matter in regards to learning the software.

MOV will likely be larger and easier to preview/render. MP4 may have to render frames as you edit, which can bog down your machine. The way I think of it is: MOV is the editing format and mp4 is the delivery format when you're done.

I'm over simplifying and probably conflating containers vs codecs. Check this for a more thorough explanation:
It's a great channel, but might be more for intermediates than beginners, he gets very detailed.

toomanycanons said:

I know there's a steep learning curve, which has put me off before, but I'm gonna get it done.

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I don't really find it anymore difficult than Premiere, but your mileage may vary.

toomanycanons said:

Which video file format should I learn with? I know I know, whatever my camera shoots. I have two choices at the moment, my D7200 and a point and shoot from the past, a Canon 330. They both shoot in MOV.

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If my memory serves me correctly, MOV is a QuickTime container, and MP4 is a container for some type of MPEG coding; just go with whichever one gives you a higher bitrate.

I was in your situation 3+ years ago when I dived in video after almost 50 years in still.

I started with Premiere and found it somewhat easier because I had years in Adobe Photoshop where layer and mask was a familiar concept to me.

I currently jumped in Davinci Resolve 16.1.2 and found the interface a little different. I think the biggest problem was that I was so used to PPCC and found DR different. If I had not had 3+ years of PPCC experience, I might find DR not so bad once I figure out what in where.

But the key to DR seems to be a relatively powerful computer. I am convinced that DR requires more processing power than Premiere. Since it is free, download it and try it. If you run into issue, learn how to use their "optimized" alternative and see if it helps. On my 3rd generation i7 on a laptop, it was a no go. I built my editing desktop which works fine with DR now.

I don't find any difference editing MOV or MP4. But for rendering the output, I stayed with MP4 because it seems more popular to most devices.

YouTube is a great place. You need to find the tutorials that fit your pace/taste. But it is there.

Good luck.

toomanycanons said:

I looked at the Z50 and you have a choice of MOV or MP4.

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.MOV and .MP4 are "container" formats and DO NOT effect the quality or size of your video file.

The CODEC ( compression/decompression algorithm ) and the bit-rate ( how many data bits are used to store one second of video data ) control the actual size and quality of the video stored in the file.

You can store the exact SAME video in a .MOV container or a .MP4 container, and the resulting file will be almost identical in size.

Apple abandoned QuickTime on Windows, so many antivirus utilities consider .MOV files to be a virus-vector, and may block you from opening .MOV files under Windows. ( though you can usually get around this by opening the file directly with your video editor )

You can work with either .MOV or .MP4 files with most video editors, and you can even mix and match both of these container formats in the same project.

I would use the container format that is easiest to use with your video editor.

I shoot almost everything in .MP4 format using uncompressed LPCM audio, and I transcode these to the Cineform format when editing. ( Cineform uses less compression so the files are faster to work with when editing, Cineform uses "wavelet" compression which eliminates compression artifacts and maintains image quality over 50+ generations ) The other main "editing" CODECs are DNxHD and ProRes, and these CODECs use less compression and are designed to maintain image quality over many generations too. )

and I know what they're talking about. Gear, technique, post processing, been doing that for years.

I've watched a lot of DaVinci Resolve 16 vids and I'm getting better at not getting hung up on all the terms I don't know. It's like learning a foreign language. Today I learned that in the "Color Wheels", Lift is shadows, Gamma is midtones and Gain is highlights. Pretty simple stuff, right? I just learned that.

I had to learn something new last year (doesn't matter what, just that it was a completely different way of doing something I'd done for years only now a client wanted it done differently). It took me two solid months of shooting differently and certainly editing differently.

For two months I ran into one brick wall after another. But I had to learn this new way, no question about it. So I persevered and finally one day I went from shooting to editing to the final product through basically just muscle memory and not thinking the entire way through.

And I'm on Day One of this video thing. The push is that I just want to know how to do it, I don't have a client insisting on it.

toomanycanons said:

I looked at the Z50 and you have a choice of MOV or MP4. I suppose it matters because Nikon gives you a choice but ultimately is one better to start learning about video?

Am I hamstringing myself by learning with the MOV format or, ultimately does it matter?

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It doesn't matter in terms of learning. But at some point you'll want to shoot some test footage with your cameras to see which of their formats gives you the best results and then stick to that format. Shoot footage that contains a lot of random movement across the entire field of view, such as rustling leaves or reflections on undulating water - that's the most difficult subject matter for video codecs to compress and it'll show up any weaknesses.

Don't assume that if, for example, MOV gives you better results on one camera then it will give better results on another one. All of these file types are essentially just containers - what really matters is the specific way the video is encoded and that can vary from camera to camera and from format to format.

I've searched "beginner tutorials for DaVinci Resolve 16" and got a ton of hits. I've watched quite a few and, interestingly, each presenter has his own list of things a beginner should know and it's different from vid to vid.

But, I've shot some clips, I've chosen which vid to follow to try to get through rendering and outputting my first vid and today's the day, do or die.

I shot my clips using the Flat color profile, I'll be using some basic dissolves, I'll be muting the volume, I'll be stabilizing, I'll be playing in the Color tab, it's all going to be an adventure.

That's using my D7200. Another newbie question is:

Can I simplify the process by getting some "point and shoot" like a Panasonic LX100, use its internal stabilization, shoot in Standard or Vivid and be able to output clips that will be more straightforward to edit? I can't imagine the Y'Tube vids I've been watching have a ton of time spent stabilizing/color grading. etc. And they look pretty darn good. I bet they just upload their clips to their vid software, put them together and export using the built-in Youtube Export settings. Easy peasy.

toomanycanons said:

I've searched "beginner tutorials for DaVinci Resolve 16" and got a ton of hits. I've watched quite a few and, interestingly, each presenter has his own list of things a beginner should know and it's different from vid to vid.

But, I've shot some clips, I've chosen which vid to follow to try to get through rendering and outputting my first vid and today's the day, do or die.

I shot my clips using the Flat color profile, I'll be using some basic dissolves, I'll be muting the volume, I'll be stabilizing, I'll be playing in the Color tab, it's all going to be an adventure.

That's using my D7200. Another newbie question is:

Can I simplify the process by getting some "point and shoot" like a Panasonic LX100, use its internal stabilization, shoot in Standard or Vivid and be able to output clips that will be more straightforward to edit? I can't imagine the Y'Tube vids I've been watching have a ton of time spent stabilizing/color grading. etc. And they look pretty darn good. I bet they just upload their clips to their vid software, put them together and export using the built-in Youtube Export settings. Easy peasy.

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Hi, let me share my experience, might be useful to some extent.

I started the exact path as you but few years ago, the difference that I am not interested in stills but went straigth to video. Since then, I have produced few music videos, a documentary and a whole blown feature movie, but I needed to learn the basics of video before that.

I started with a similar camera of yours, D7500, for the 4k video. I also went once for Panasonic GX85, which i still have, however, since then I invested in Z6, which is now a main workhorse.

I can't give your exact explanations, but the simple path is like this:

1. Your camera D7200 - you have to use manual focus for video, otherwise, it hunts for focus. Shoot with highest bitrate available (4k for me). You may downsample the final product but it will look better if the original files are of higher quality (bitrate). There is not much difference once bitrate is above 100 mpbs (Sony) and Nikon D7500 and Z6 both produce 144 (better than Sony), though in D7500 there is some crop.

2. Record mov files. They are somewhat easier. If you want MP4, do that. At the end, it doesn't impact the final result. Use Nikon's Flat profile. Later you may want to use other profiles, but Flat is easiest for later processing. You may want to use Grey 18% color panel for later post processing, or just a list of white printer paper during or before the video shooting (especially in challenging lighting).

3. Record all sound with an external mike and if possible, on an external recorder. You will have a separate sound file, to be later synced. The advantage will be pristine audio. In order to sync easier, use flappers. If you don't have a physical flapper, use a flapper app on your smartphone. You will understand how it is useful for post processing.

4.Mix both in computer. I use Macs and Final Cut Pro, but started with a simpler version, iMovie. They both basically similar software, but imovie is just easier to start. Import both your mov and audio files. Audio file is preferably wav or high bitrate mp3.

5. if you did everything as I said, syncing must be piece of cake. Software will sync automatically your sound and movie files based on the flapper sound.

6. Once you have all synced, you will edit based on your preferences. Invest in some color grading packages for iMovie. I have 3-4 packages, some swear by Film coloring, anyway, mostly a personal preference.

7. Once you finished edting your mix, color it using inbuilt tools and the pro packages I mentioned. Edit brightness, contrast, colors, etc based on your preferences.

8. Invest in some effects plugins, transition plugins, lighting plugins or use builtin software toos.

9. Export either to 1080p or 4k as you wish. I found 4k to be unncessary for amateur use, but for real broadcasting, 4k or 2k is a must now. Will be years before things move to 8K.

10. Enjoy a morning coffee and a sandwich. You made it.

PS. Some additional details. I didn't find Panasonic to be useful. Mixing two color systems, lenses and cameras is just troublesome and making colors similar is very difficult. It wasn't really useful much and my GX85 is not used really. Having two Nikon cameras helps to mix video, because colors are similar. I woudn't go into details of editing, because every app is different. Finally, shooting video is easiest thing, but the most crucial things are not shooting per se, but planning, composition and making shots in "cinematic" ways, that is planning shots from the beginning to be good shots in video (dynamic, moving, revealing, steady, interesting, etc). once you learn the "cinematic" movie shooting, you will notice that in TV or movies actually all main shots are indeed not just recorded videos, but the professionally executed "movie" type shots, which may require some additional hardware as tripods, monopods, cranes, jibs and gimbals later (which I all invested in accordingly).

if you haven't already, download the free Beginner's Guide for Resolve Ver.16 - there are other free PDF's available from DaVinci as well, including downloadable tutorial files

The best format depends on how your camera(s) encode the video; you will be looking at specifics like bitrate and bit depth at capture, not just the container used before editing.

As far as learning about Resolve is concerned, one of the most complete and concise guides was published by RedShark:

Something every beginner gets hung up on is stabilization because most of us started out without some sophisticated stabilization tool, and was oversold on the stabilization ability of the lens or camera. We also get the fancy idea that we have the freedom to "move around" with our camera.

Let me help you get past this speedbump. Use a tripod! If you pay attention to the pros videoing, you'll find they all have their camera on tripods. Actually, when you learn the brands they use, you'd realize that they invested a lot more on their tripod and head than the camera and lens (Look for Miller, Vinton and Sachalter on B&H). Even a cheap tripod, when use properly, will give you stabilized footage.

You can get into gimbal and monopod in the future. But not now.

The stabilization they advertised for the camera and lens, is for very minor improvement handheld.

All Nikon pre-Z cameras and lenses make noise during stabilization. You certainly don't want that in your video.

PP stabilization may help a little, but it certainly takes a lot of time. If every clips need stabilization, it kind of takes the fun out of the process. And in some camera, and some situation, you may get some funny jello effect with stabilization.

While we are on the camera and lens subject, turn the AF off because it is not reliable, and again, makes noise.

Davinci gives you great color grading capability. I would not add any camera vivid setting to the footage. Do it in PP so you would get more consistency among clips.

So I blundered ahead in Resolve, following a "beginners crash course" on Y'Tube. Let's just say it was interesting. The guy talking in the vid would do some clicking and dragging and whatnot, sometimes I'd do the same and it would work like it did for him, other times it wouldn't for no reason that I could tell but since I know nothing it could be anything.

For my stills shooting (for money) I'm only shooting in daylight, sometimes early morning sometimes during the golden hour. I shoot on A (f/9) and my shutter speed goes up and down to keep the exposure somewhat correct. It's a known workflow for me.

Which is exactly the opposite of how I need to shoot videos with my D7200. I'm in bright daylight, shooting at 30 fps which calls for a shutter of 1/60 but now I'm at f/18 or f/20 to still be overexposed. It would seem a neutral density filter (which I've never owned) would be a necessity in this scenario.

The end result was sketchy to say the least. Trying to get the contrast/saturation/exposure correct on all the clips, starting from Flat (which I never shoot stills in) using the Curves adjustment (I never use Curves, I'm in Lightroom using the sliders) was a trip.

I did use the software's stabilization and it worked pretty well (had to stabilize each clip individually). All the clips were handheld.

But, ya know, I remember what it was like learning how to post process my still photography and that was years ago. I'm in my second day learning D. Resolve and my D7200 set to video/Live View (I never shoot in Live View).

Today I shot on a tripod and did some slow panning. Tomorrow I'll work on those clips. I shot on Standard this time, we'll see.

Thanks for everyone's comments, I really appreciate them.

toomanycanons said:

So I blundered ahead in Resolve,

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I'm pretty sure everyone blunders in Resolve, even those who don't admit it. its still fun though.

toomanycanons said:

The end result was sketchy to say the least. Trying to get the contrast/saturation/exposure correct on all the clips, starting from Flat (which I never shoot stills in) using the Curves adjustment (I never use Curves, I'm in Lightroom using the sliders) was a trip.

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Don't use flat.

Start with a really easy workflow, no need to make things harder to begin with. Use a more natural colour profile, see how it works and go from there.

Also, if you are recording using 8bit video, you are very limited with colour grading before introducing artifacts or blockiness any - using a flat or log profile is pretty much, in most cases, a waste of time.
One of the easiest ways to get started in video is to just start to tell a story using a cellphone, action camera or P&S camera. Don't get distracted by the camera and the gear, don't worry about the quality of the video, but concentrate on the editing.

hindesite said:

Don't use flat.

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That's terrible advice, definitely use flat.

If you want easy, use a phone.

robertfel said:

hindesite said:

Don't use flat.

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That's terrible advice, definitely use flat.

If you want easy, use a phone.

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I'm using Vivid next time. My phone doesn't take videos :-O

DMKAlex said:

Something every beginner gets hung up on is stabilization because most of us started out without some sophisticated stabilization tool, and was oversold on the stabilization ability of the lens or camera. We also get the fancy idea that we have the freedom to "move around" with our camera.

Let me help you get past this speedbump. Use a tripod! If you pay attention to the pros videoing, you'll find they all have their camera on tripods.

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I can't agree with you on this one DMKAlex. The stabilization in the Panasonic GH5 and Sx line of FF cameras has radically changed the way I shoot professionally because you can make great handheld shots with movement using either the IBIS or DUAL IS systems of these cameras.

In August I shot a 33 minute walkthrough of a medical clinic where I followed the director of the clinic up and down four floors of the clinic and was able to get smooth handheld shots the whole time just using GH5 IBIS which was attached to a light-weight stabilizer. ( http://halorig.com/ ) The best part about this set-up is that it takes less than 5 seconds to rig and start shooting, and you can smoothly move your camera in any direction, even for tight elevator shots where all I had were a few inches between the walls of the elevator and me. The client loved the footage and so did I.

Gimbals can produce smoother looking movement, but you can't rig one in 5 seconds, and I don't know about squeezing into a space with mere inches between you and the walls, or about holding the gimbal for one continuous 33 minute shot.

My arms were tired by the end, but I got the shot.

With the GH5 and Sx cameras you can even put the IBIS into what I would "tripod mode" where the camera keeps the image locked down in all directions, and enables you to get shots that would normally take a tripod. Sure I would not want to shoot like this for any length of time, but when you need to knock off a few "static" shots this IBIS mode is fantastic.

LingoDingo sez:

"In August I shot a 33 minute walkthrough of a medical clinic where I followed the director of the clinic up and down four floors of the clinic and was able to get smooth handheld shots the whole time just using GH5 IBIS which was attached to a light-weight stabilizer."

Was the bulk of the stabilizing done with the GH5 or the lightweight stabilizer? In the absence of either I'm relying on Resolve's built-in stabilizing program, at least for now. One way or another handheld footage has to be stabilized, right?

A guy could get a serious case of GAS in video. Yesterday my mind was swimming with "which fluid video pano head should I get" and "I wonder how much an el cheapo stabilizer for handheld shots costs and is it worth it". Like that.

This all started while I was out shooting in Utah (stills for work) during a rainy period and I thought it would be cool to be ready to shoot a vid of some flash flood, which seemed imminent (never happened but still...). Ya know, waterfalls cascading off clifftops, dry creekbeds surging with the first wall o'water, stranding my car on the other side...

toomanycanons said:

LingoDingo sez:

"In August I shot a 33 minute walkthrough of a medical clinic where I followed the director of the clinic up and down four floors of the clinic and was able to get smooth handheld shots the whole time just using GH5 IBIS which was attached to a light-weight stabilizer."

Was the bulk of the stabilizing done with the GH5 or the lightweight stabilizer? In the absence of either I'm relying on Resolve's built-in stabilizing program, at least for now. One way or another handheld footage has to be stabilized, right?

A guy could get a serious case of GAS in video. Yesterday my mind was swimming with "which fluid video pano head should I get" and "I wonder how much an el cheapo stabilizer for handheld shots costs and is it worth it". Like that.

This all started while I was out shooting in Utah (stills for work) during a rainy period and I thought it would be cool to be ready to shoot a vid of some flash flood, which seemed imminent (never happened but still...). Ya know, waterfalls cascading off clifftops, dry creekbeds surging with the first wall o'water, stranding my car on the other side...

Click to expand...

In any way, IBIS is not a real answer, except maybe in case of Panasonic cameras. For Nikon, it is not, even for Z6. So a gimbal is a must.

I hope you veterans don't mind my beginner questions--if there's a beginner video forum I should be posting on instead please let me know.

Motorized gimbal: what the heck, I have to get one sometime if I'm going to get serious about this video thing.

Zhiyun Weebill S for my first one, yes or no?