A6600 w/16-55 2.8 or A7 III w/24-70 f/4

My vote is for the A7III + 24-105. Better IQ, better ergonomics, better lens selection if you plan to go elsewhere.
All subjective and unfounded, sorry Mr but trying to convince me that FF 24mp sensors offer anything, as in zero advantage, over excellent 24mp sensors like the one fitted in the a6600 is completely false information. There is no better when you fit the f4 lens and lose the one stop dr/noise advantage.
You still gain more DR at base ISO

And the A7III is visually cleaner than the A6500 at high ISOs, even 1 stop higher

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/im...=1&x=0.5209275475826093&y=-0.9921323588357042
But you will never see this advantage anyway, Lr/C1/dxo are now so good, any noise difference is above iso6400 anyway and even then it would be totally impossible to see any difference between an iso6400 shot at f4 and an iso6400 shot at f4 on aps-c, let alone the f 2.8 one stop improvement of the 2.8 16-55 vs the f4 of the 24-105.
Why stop here... TopazAI is great at denoising and sharpening photos up. You can probably fake subject isolation too. Why not get an RX100?
This is not a bad idea, as long as you're ok with its range. I'd almost be happy with it...
Or a little 1/2.3" Cybershot?
Except that with small sensors, they usually won't give you RAW and the JPEGS usually have heavy-handed NR, even at low ISOs. And the DR starts to make a big difference by now.
I'll accept that the extra dial of the a7iii may swing it for some, but saying you have better glass options is just as ridiculous, its one mount and friend, the FF does not have access to a compact 100-500 lens or a compact 27-200 either, so it depends but pulling this iq thing is totally ridiculous and impossible to prove and even if there is a slight improvement the difference in print and on screen for images, not viewed at 100-200% is impossible to spot, same goes for any other FF sensor, even the a7r4, its not until you need the 26mp crop to simulate the aps-c sensor that you can see any advantage.
You are in such a rage you can't even separate your thoughts into coherent sentences lol. A7III might not be crop friendly but the 42MP+ A7Rs definitely are. So that's a moot point. And yes obviously if you need reach smaller sensors are better (which again cuts both ways for APS-C).
It does, but you can also consider APS-C to be the sweet spot between the extremes. :-D
But for the wide/standard FL range most people shoot in FF has better lens selection and to a large degree value too. If you just want a basic kit with like F/3.5-5.6 zooms and a prime or too then APS-C shines. But IMO once you are looking at $1400 F/2.8 APS-C zooms you're deep in the realm of diminishing returns, unless you are really that hung up on size and weight
You are probably right. It does seem that you have to commit to more expensive lenses, in general, if you go FE, though.
 
My vote is for the A7III + 24-105. Better IQ, better ergonomics, better lens selection if you plan to go elsewhere.
This would be my kit lens if I am going with the A7III. It's perfect for travel, family/friend gatherings and walkabouts. Add the Batis 135./2.8 (for headshots and sports) and the top of the line Sony flash and I'll shoot with it for years to come.
 
There's not much difference between FF and APS-C at minimum sensitivity. There's a lot of difference once ISO creeps to the 5-digit range. Also in that range there's a lot of difference between F2.8 and F4 lenses on same sensor...
 
There's not much difference between FF and APS-C at minimum sensitivity. There's a lot of difference once ISO creeps to the 5-digit range. Also in that range there's a lot of difference between F2.8 and F4 lenses on same sensor...
 
There's not much difference between FF and APS-C at minimum sensitivity. There's a lot of difference once ISO creeps to the 5-digit range. Also in that range there's a lot of difference between F2.8 and F4 lenses on same sensor...
Wrong, it’s impossible to substantiate these claims, especially with Canon FF, provide two equivalent shots between FF and a6600 and then we can discuss iq!

The benefits to many of a FF body and other options to the a6600 now boil down to ergonomics and dof only! If you are comfortable with the weight and cost of a FF set-up, or otherwise, fill your boots!
If you buy the a6600 + 16-55 +70-350 = $3,800 (which you have done), that seems like a LOT of money for an APS-C camera and two zoom lenses. Then, as you have said, adding the Sigma 16, 30, & 56 f1.4 primes, and you are good to go for another $1,110. That is a grand total of $4,911. To me, that seems like a LOT of money to spend on an APS-C camera and full kit of lenses for the average enthusiast, wouldn't you agree?

Most people choose an APS-C system to avoid the cost, size & weight over going with an FF system. It seems like Sony is charging a very high premium to save some size & weight vs going FF, IMO. I suppose if your main criteria is saving size & weight, going with the latest & greatest APS-C cameras/lenses should be worth it to you. Apparently, that is what you have been saying all along, or am I wrong?
 
There's not much difference between FF and APS-C at minimum sensitivity. There's a lot of difference once ISO creeps to the 5-digit range. Also in that range there's a lot of difference between F2.8 and F4 lenses on same sensor...
Wrong, it’s impossible to substantiate these claims, especially with Canon FF, provide two equivalent shots between FF and a6600 and then we can discuss iq!
I just did, not sure why you ignored them but I'll post them again

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/im...1&x=-0.01585395956214108&y=0.6897588606950492

Even 1 stop ahead the A7III is visibly cleaner than the A6500 at higher ISOs
 
On similar thought lines, I really like the a6300. But it mostly stays home due to these:

a7

Samyang 24

Sony 28

Samyang 35

Sigma 30 cropped (45mm)

Sigma 56 cropped (85mm)

Yes fewer pixels and no IBIS, outdated body, but this is a lightweight, low cost, low profile collection, fits nicely in an Osprey sling bag. IQ beats the a6300 for color and contrast - no care what anybody says because checked that many times. APS-C is good for extra reach, but others have shown the a7rII as better, because no AA filter.

24-105 is really tempting, the many photos on Fred Miranda are amazingly good . .

Here's one of today with a6300 and Rokinon 135



22c35de519654e38b3cb9fa229a97d44.jpg
 
Meanwhile, this is the a7 with a lens that weighs 86 grams, now on sale at B&H for $240.

How much better is the $$$ 16-55 likely to do in the same situation?



e116e9db106f4842aef70cd6f6562efb.jpg
 
There's not much difference between FF and APS-C at minimum sensitivity. There's a lot of difference once ISO creeps to the 5-digit range. Also in that range there's a lot of difference between F2.8 and F4 lenses on same sensor...
Wrong, it’s impossible to substantiate these claims, especially with Canon FF, provide two equivalent shots between FF and a6600 and then we can discuss iq!

The benefits to many of a FF body and other options to the a6600 now boil down to ergonomics and dof only! If you are comfortable with the weight and cost of a FF set-up, or otherwise, fill your boots!
If you buy the a6600 + 16-55 +70-350 = $3,800 (which you have done), that seems like a LOT of money for an APS-C camera and two zoom lenses. Then, as you have said, adding the Sigma 16, 30, & 56 f1.4 primes, and you are good to go for another $1,110. That is a grand total of $4,911. To me, that seems like a LOT of money to spend on an APS-C camera and full kit of lenses for the average enthusiast, wouldn't you agree?

Most people choose an APS-C system to avoid the cost, size & weight over going with an FF system. It seems like Sony is charging a very high premium to save some size & weight vs going FF, IMO. I suppose if your main criteria is saving size & weight, going with the latest & greatest APS-C cameras/lenses should be worth it to you. Apparently, that is what you have been saying all along, or am I wrong?
Correct, sum's it up, best compact system out there for me, obviously others have different priorities but for me, the above is killer, I might yet add a 24 (35 equivalent), waiting for the Viltrox lenses to see if they offer anything new :)
 
There's not much difference between FF and APS-C at minimum sensitivity. There's a lot of difference once ISO creeps to the 5-digit range. Also in that range there's a lot of difference between F2.8 and F4 lenses on same sensor...
Wrong, it’s impossible to substantiate these claims, especially with Canon FF, provide two equivalent shots between FF and a6600 and then we can discuss iq!
I just did, not sure why you ignored them but I'll post them again

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/im...1&x=-0.01585395956214108&y=0.6897588606950492

Even 1 stop ahead the A7III is visibly cleaner than the A6500 at higher ISOs
Lr,C1 this is just std fodder for them, there is nothing in it, nothing!

Listen, this is iso16000, yes it says 6400 but underexposed by 1.3stops to get 1/50sec so, this is below 0ev light, pitch black, 45mm 2.6 FF equiv, there is one rotolight in the far distance, a6500 is a great camera too, don't get me wrong!

Square crop.



7ed10f95c6f34ad7b203665eaf87b949.jpg
 
Meanwhile, this is the a7 with a lens that weighs 86 grams, now on sale at B&H for $240.

How much better is the $$$ 16-55 likely to do in the same situation?

e116e9db106f4842aef70cd6f6562efb.jpg
Well, in this case, if you needed any of the other focal lengths for a wider or a more zoomed in shot, a lot better :)

Seriously depends what you want to do, a 16-55 is no good for catching this robin for example!!



17053b4d47ea4081a495a22aa925e9dd.jpg
 
24-105 is really tempting, the many photos on Fred Miranda are amazingly good . .
To my taste, 24-105s are boring lenses for everyday usage (I was using such from 2012 till 2018). They are good in everything, but excel in nothing. The best application for them is traveling.
 
24-105 is really tempting, the many photos on Fred Miranda are amazingly good . .
To my taste, 24-105s are boring lenses for everyday usage (I was using such from 2012 till 2018). They are good in everything, but excel in nothing. The best application for them is traveling.
 
24-105 is really tempting, the many photos on Fred Miranda are amazingly good . .
To my taste, 24-105s are boring lenses for everyday usage (I was using such from 2012 till 2018). They are good in everything, but excel in nothing. The best application for them is traveling.
People travel. I have purged zooms from my kit but if I travel somewhere touristy I will probably rent some. They have their place
 
People travel. I have purged zooms from my kit but if I travel somewhere touristy I will probably rent some. They have their place
After many years of using zoom lenses in normal-to-telephoto range (38-110 equivalent, 24-105, 24-240) for traveling, I finally decided to settle on 2 bodies with 17-28 and 70-180. It gives redundancy and 17-270 mm equivalent of combined range with fast aperture and unmatched by normal zooms quality.
 
24-105 is really tempting, the many photos on Fred Miranda are amazingly good . .
To my taste, 24-105s are boring lenses for everyday usage (I was using such from 2012 till 2018). They are good in everything, but excel in nothing. The best application for them is traveling.
Boring photographers make boring images.

Photographers of the twentieth century had nothing equal to a mediocre entry-level ILC (24-105), yet their work influenced a generation.

Ansel Adams
Richard Avedon
Irving Penn
Henry Cartier-Bresson
W Eugene Smith
Robert Capra
Edward Weston
Man Ray
Robert Mapplethorpe
Edward Eteichen
Yousuf Karsh
Doc Edgerton
Alfred Stieglitz
Dorothea Lange

And a host of others.

If a boring photographer produces an exceptional image . . .

Well, lets put it this way: Even a blind squirrel can get a nut -- occasionally.
 
Nothing to do with the boring-ness of the photographer in the context of history. Its whether the photographer is bored with the lens when other choices are out there.
 
Nothing to do with the boring-ness of the photographer in the context of history. Its whether the photographer is bored with the lens when other choices are out there.
Gearheads.
 
I’m that way about surfboards too. The 24-70 would be like having a funboard in Hawaii. Doesn’t really rip and it won’t paddle into the bombs, so what’s the point of choosing that one.
 
Nothing to do with the boring-ness of the photographer in the context of history. Its whether the photographer is bored with the lens when other choices are out there.
Gearheads.
Is this being used as a pejorative? Sure, there are people who are probably too gear focused. But I'd wager most people would be more apt to go for a bike ride on a nice bike vs a crappy one. Or a drive in a nice car vs a boring commuter. Etc. Passion only goes so far. Having nice things or the exact things you want helps too.
 

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