Why bother with 2 bodies - ie H and X.

I was thinking about this on the train this morning,

why bother with two bodies, one for speed and low res, one with slower frame rates and lots of res., well I know the answer now, but....

I thought about a solution..
Why not have a full frame sensor, which can turn off selected photo sites.

I.e., its say 10mpx 3fps at fullframe, then it disables sites around the border, to step down to a lower res 1.5x APS sized sensor, say 5mpx at 8fps. Then it can move the data around quicker, and give the benefit of telephoto FOV crop.

Sigmas SD9 viewfinder has a design like this, its a full 35mm finder, but only the sensor area is clear, the rest has a dark tint applied.

Now why couldn't software control the sensor to turn off a border of photosites, i wouldnt mind it if takes a few seconds to change from hi res to sports mode, and you could have the camera for all situations...

The shutter and the rest would be fine, there's no reason why a D2X cant have a shutter like the D2H, i.e. 8fps, and af and the rest can be shared.

regards,

Mark Pakula
Pakula Photography
http://www.markpakula.com

Because photojournalist don't need the extra MPs. It's more about volume as opposed to quality. And the D*H cameras are aimed towards that market where speed and volume are regarded more importantly.

Though it is a goo idea.

kula said:

I was thinking about this on the train this morning,
why bother with two bodies, one for speed and low res, one with
slower frame rates and lots of res., well I know the answer now,
but....

I thought about a solution..
Why not have a full frame sensor, which can turn off selected photo
sites.

I.e., its say 10mpx 3fps at fullframe, then it disables sites
around the border, to step down to a lower res 1.5x APS sized
sensor, say 5mpx at 8fps. Then it can move the data around quicker,
and give the benefit of telephoto FOV crop.

Sigmas SD9 viewfinder has a design like this, its a full 35mm
finder, but only the sensor area is clear, the rest has a dark tint
applied.

Now why couldn't software control the sensor to turn off a border
of photosites, i wouldnt mind it if takes a few seconds to change
from hi res to sports mode, and you could have the camera for all
situations...

The shutter and the rest would be fine, there's no reason why a D2X
cant have a shutter like the D2H, i.e. 8fps, and af and the rest
can be shared.

regards,

Mark Pakula
Pakula Photography
http://www.markpakula.com

Click to expand...

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My new site is almost done...

inhousephoto inc. digital • photography • media
http://www.inhousephoto.com

Specialist equipment for special needs. Most car makes come with several engines for the one body type. Take an VW Golf. You can get a 5 types of 4 cylinder engines (1.4, 1.6, 1.8 turbo, 1.9 & 2.0), A V5 (2.3), two types of 6 cylinder (2.8 & 3.2), and two types of disiel 4 cylinders (1.9 naturally aspirated and turbo.

Personally I think 9 engine types in one car is going to far, but no one is telling VW to make a high performance car which also runs at 100 mile a gallon.

VW's cars meet the different needs of different buyers. Nikon have decided that they can't please everybody with the same camera, so they release similar bodies with different innards. So they should.

jb

--
http://www.pbase.com/jbviajero

jbviajero said:

Personally I think 9 engine types in one car is going to far, but
no one is telling VW to make a high performance car which also runs
at 100 mile a gallon.

VW's cars meet the different needs of different buyers. Nikon have
decided that they can't please everybody with the same camera, so
they release similar bodies with different innards. So they should.

Click to expand...

I don't think I agree with you completely. The whole point of turbo engines is to get 4 cylinder mileage with 6 cylinder performance. So that is another market that sells. Nikon has a pro market which will sell either and X or an H and frequently both to the same individual. If and when Nikon starts selling a full frame pro camera I would not be surprised to see one of their less pro models with switchable resolution for the avid amateur who can only afford one camera but would like to switch between vacations scenics and the the kid's soccer match. Except it will not be quite as good as the pro camera. Hey, an industry that offers spot meter, center weighted meter, matrix meter in one camera is going to combine anything that sells.

all of nikon's d-slr's can shoot at lower resolutions, but surprisingly that doesn't increase the buffer size. in the same way that you get more shots in the buffer if you pick jpeg over nef, you should be able to get more shots in the buffer if you pick a lower resolution.

--
http://pbase.com/ottokalata
(equipment list is in my profile)

win39 said:

camera I would not be surprised to see one of their less pro models
with switchable resolution for the avid amateur who can only afford
one camera but would like to switch between vacations scenics and
the the kid's soccer match. Except it will not be quite as good as
the pro camera. Hey, an industry that offers spot meter, center

Click to expand...

FKS said:

all of nikon's d-slr's can shoot at lower resolutions, but
surprisingly that doesn't increase the buffer size. in the same way
that you get more shots in the buffer if you pick jpeg over nef,
you should be able to get more shots in the buffer if you pick a
lower resolution.

Click to expand...

Yup, they still use the all the CCD to do that, which is not what i am suggesting, currently, they use all the CCD and then resize it in the camera, so speed wouldnt increase.

i think the car anaolgy isnt ideal, if someone wants a VW jetta and can only afford the 4cyl than they buy it, if they can afford the V6 they buy that, but they have the option.

With cameras they dont have the option, its one or the other, or both.
But not both in one.

It could be good business for the camera makers,

have a D2H at A$7000, a D2X at A$8000, or a machine which can do both for A$10,000.

The main reason for having an H and an X is that current technology simply isn't to the point where you can make a high-res camera that can also achieve high frame rates. For a long time, people have been using the excuse that "pj's don't need higher resolution". While it may be true that the typical pj usually doesn't need higher resolution, it certainly doesn't mean that ALL pj photographers would turn their back on having some extra resolution at their disposal. A 6mp DSLR capable of 8fps would be just as popular amongst pj shooters-- probably even more so-- compared to a 4mp DSLR. More resolution simply gives you more to work with. Plus, you can always shoot at smaller resolutions. Yes, blasphemy of all blasphemies, many press shooters (those same pj's who say they don't need higher resolution) shoot straight jpeg for their day-to-day work. So ideally, having a 6mp (or higher) DSLR capable of higher frame rate would give them much more flexibility to get the higher quality when they want it (in RAW or JPEG), while still allowing them to shoot smaller sizes when they don't. Also having more resolution makes it more attractive to a much broader base of users who don't just shoot for newspapers. There are nature/wildlife shooters, wedding shooters, and yes, even pj's who would all love to have more than 4mp ion a high-speed DSLR. Someday very soon, we will have 6mp (maybe more) 8fps pro-calibre DSLR cameras as being the standard "H" level camera, with the "X" level camera being an ultra high-res (11mp and higher, possibly full frame) camera for those needing medium format film quality images.

kula said:

I was thinking about this on the train this morning,
why bother with two bodies, one for speed and low res, one with
slower frame rates and lots of res., well I know the answer now,
but....

I thought about a solution..
Why not have a full frame sensor, which can turn off selected photo
sites.

I.e., its say 10mpx 3fps at fullframe, then it disables sites
around the border, to step down to a lower res 1.5x APS sized
sensor, say 5mpx at 8fps. Then it can move the data around quicker,
and give the benefit of telephoto FOV crop.

Sigmas SD9 viewfinder has a design like this, its a full 35mm
finder, but only the sensor area is clear, the rest has a dark tint
applied.

Now why couldn't software control the sensor to turn off a border
of photosites, i wouldnt mind it if takes a few seconds to change
from hi res to sports mode, and you could have the camera for all
situations...

The shutter and the rest would be fine, there's no reason why a D2X
cant have a shutter like the D2H, i.e. 8fps, and af and the rest
can be shared.

regards,

Mark Pakula
Pakula Photography
http://www.markpakula.com

Click to expand...

Yeah, this is a good idea, but have you ever think of the issue in metering and focusing? Howw can you make the metering and focusing point varies when the outer part of the sensor is not being used?

Derrick

kula said:

FKS said:

all of nikon's d-slr's can shoot at lower resolutions, but
surprisingly that doesn't increase the buffer size. in the same way
that you get more shots in the buffer if you pick jpeg over nef,
you should be able to get more shots in the buffer if you pick a
lower resolution.

Click to expand...

Yup, they still use the all the CCD to do that, which is not what i
am suggesting, currently, they use all the CCD and then resize it
in the camera, so speed wouldnt increase.

i think the car anaolgy isnt ideal, if someone wants a VW jetta and
can only afford the 4cyl than they buy it, if they can afford the
V6 they buy that, but they have the option.

With cameras they dont have the option, its one or the other, or both.
But not both in one.

It could be good business for the camera makers,
have a D2H at A$7000, a D2X at A$8000, or a machine which can do
both for A$10,000.

Click to expand...

Derrick Siu said:

Yeah, this is a good idea, but have you ever think of the issue in
metering and focusing? Howw can you make the metering and focusing
point varies when the outer part of the sensor is not being used?

Click to expand...

A good point.

The D2's extra wide focus points might be an issue, but the 9 in the middle would be fine, canons 45pt af system would be contained within the 1.5x crop frame for sure.

eg: 1D 1.3x:



and 1Ds:



1.5x would be pretty close..
A small software tweak to make the centre more prominant might help.

Hay, this is a Nikon Forum, not Canon!

kula said:

Derrick Siu said:

Yeah, this is a good idea, but have you ever think of the issue in
metering and focusing? Howw can you make the metering and focusing
point varies when the outer part of the sensor is not being used?

Click to expand...

A good point.

The D2's extra wide focus points might be an issue, but the 9 in
the middle would be fine, canons 45pt af system would be contained
within the 1.5x crop frame for sure.

eg: 1D 1.3x:



and 1Ds:



1.5x would be pretty close..
A small software tweak to make the centre more prominant might help.

Click to expand...

So Nikon can sell you two bodies and, You will possibly buy an extra "favorite" lens to have them on different bodies at the same time. Many pro's hobbyists will have both bodies, just like many still have an f100 or f5 along with their d1x,d1h,d100 etc etc. It's all about marketing and yes someday the technology will incorporate a 10-12 mp "lbcast" aps or FF sensor that will easily be capable of 8-12 FPS at full resoultion with a 50 shot buffer. This is not reality, it's going to be fact someday. Everyone thought 10 years ago...oh mygo, a camera that has 1.2 megapixals what more could we want!!!!!!!