White Balance settings...

With all the talk of color and such I made an effort to start getting into the habit of changing the WB settings.

This morning was a classic overcast morning so I set it to overcast. When I opened the image in SPP the color was dead on.

Check out Belle, my "Canine Spokesmodel"



The more I use this camera the more I like it.

I'm going to pick up a full size kodak gray card after lunch. This weekend I'll experiment with custom WB settings. If all goes according to plan I'll be carrying a tattered, dog eared, card with me at all times in my laptop case.

Obscura,

I've been tracking you like a laser guided conventional bomb, and now i'm ready to detonate:Þ I want WINE, how much does it cost, and how simple is it to setup on Redhat linux for the total newbie. I would like to migrate my system to a linux plantform b/c i'm fed up with Windows (should be called Losedos)

i'm on winHQ.com now, but I'm not reading fast enough

Congrats on the grey card plans. You don't have to buy Kodak ( I found a cheaper brand than Kodak at my local store, but they're both the same 18% grey

Obscura said:

With all the talk of color and such I made an effort to start
getting into the habit of changing the WB settings.

This morning was a classic overcast morning so I set it to
overcast. When I opened the image in SPP the color was dead on.

Check out Belle, my "Canine Spokesmodel"



The more I use this camera the more I like it.

I'm going to pick up a full size kodak gray card after lunch. This
weekend I'll experiment with custom WB settings. If all goes
according to plan I'll be carrying a tattered, dog eared, card with
me at all times in my laptop case.

Click to expand...

--
Sigma SD9
24-70EX
Olympus c4040z
http://kwietone0.tripod.com
Gallery
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/kosly_joseph

You'll never regret the time reading the WB at time of taking - although this should not be too arduous as only needs checking if conditions change.

The time taken will be repaid by good colour and little work to do later - if any at all. What a sensible chap. Wish others would follow your lead, then they would stop complaining, erroneously, at how the SD9 records colours.

As for other posts, stating other cameras on auto record colours correctly - how daft can you get? Pergaps there has been a surfeit of rose-coloured glasses on the marketplace!

Zone8

K Joseph said:

Obscura,

I've been tracking you like a laser guided conventional bomb, and
now i'm ready to detonate:Þ I want WINE, how much does it cost,
and how simple is it to setup on Redhat linux for the total newbie.

Click to expand...

Wine is free and there is a redhat specific HOWTO at winehq.com.

K Joseph said:

I would like to migrate my system to a linux plantform b/c i'm fed
up with Windows (should be called Losedos)

Click to expand...

For the record, I haven't got SPP running in wine yet.

I'm still getting some errors and I am trying to find the proper configuration or nail down what it is that needs to be changed for things to work.

K Joseph said:

Congrats on the grey card plans. You don't have to buy Kodak ( I
found a cheaper brand than Kodak at my local store, but they're
both the same 18% grey

Click to expand...

I picked up an official "Zone System Grey Card" from the local Camera CO-OP. If they knew I was going to use it for digital they probably would have sent me packing.

Zone8 said:

You'll never regret the time reading the WB at time of taking -
although this should not be too arduous as only needs checking if
conditions change.

The time taken will be repaid by good colour and little work to do
later - if any at all. What a sensible chap. Wish others would
follow your lead, then they would stop complaining, erroneously, at
how the SD9 records colours.

Click to expand...

We will win them over... One at a time if needed. I told the guy at the camera store... "A few minutes with this card is going to save me hours of work later on."

Zone8 said:

As for other posts, stating other cameras on auto record colours
correctly - how daft can you get? Pergaps there has been a surfeit
of rose-coloured glasses on the marketplace!

Click to expand...

Indeed.

(puts on a dmitri mask)...

Hey, um, your dog's fur looks yellow!

(removes dmitri mask)...

I just purchased a "digital" gray (or is it grey) card. Supposedly it's a completly neutral color but instead of 18% it's something like 35 or 38% gray (can't remember which). I've NEVER set the white balance manually, so this is all NEW to me. I'll take some pictures and let you all know.

For those that might be interested it's a plastic gray card that makes for greater durability. I bought it at the following site...

http://www.rmimaging.com/

Here's what their site says on the subject of gray cards and digital cameras...

Many gray cards are not well suited for digital photography; they have color casts in different lighting, they were designed for use with film, they are very susceptible to damage, etc. For these and other reasons, we have developed the Digital Gray Card.

This gray card has many advantages:

Spectrally uniform - The card maintains its constant gray appearance in a wide variety of lighting conditions.

Durable plastic material - Lightweight, strong and can withstand professional and amateur photographers.
Waterproof - A gray card you will not be afraid to use in wet weather.

Washable - It can be cleaned with soap and cold water to remove fingerprints and grime.

Repairable - Small surface scratches can be repaired by the user with a random orbit sander.

--
http://www.pbase.com/fivesolas
http://www.pbase.com/fivesolas/morepictures
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9

Hi - I just did an experiment to see if the white balance setting affects the raw file as saved in the camera - it doesn't! The white balance setting tells the SPP software how to process the file, and it affects the thumbnail. but you can change the wb setting in SPP with exactly the same result as if you set it in the camera before shooting. This is the beauty of shooting raw files - it allows you to make decisions in post-processing so you don't have to be quite as precise when the picture is captured. Don't get me wrong - the exposure must be as close to ideal as possible, but the white balance can be easily changed afterward! Regards --- jb

What you're saying seems very important to me. I wonder, however, why SPP warns the user that changing the white balance will alter the X3F file. What you're saying contradicts those who say you must do a custom white balance. If you're right, there's no need to lug a gray card around, "thank gawd."

Schnauzer said:

What you're saying seems very important to me. I wonder, however,
why SPP warns the user that changing the white balance will alter
the X3F file. What you're saying contradicts those who say you must
do a custom white balance. If you're right, there's no need to lug
a gray card around, "thank gawd."

Click to expand...

Hi. I think you may be mixing two separate issues.

First, on the saving of WB settings. I just reread the SPP manual (p.37). It is not too detailed but I it seems that the X3F picture data is not modified when you change the WB, but rather that a WB setting is always saved with the picture data, and this is what is being changed (so that the new WB is used whenever this X3F file is opened.)

But I think this has little to do with whether or not you need a custom WB. When you take the picture if the various WB presets in the camera (and/or SPP) suffice (and they may do so in many standard situations) O.K. But if you want very precise WB for a particular situation (Hazy dim sunlight, for example, or a particular studio setup) then making a custom WB is worth the extra time, since in these cases,none of the available WB presets will be as effective.

Hope this helps clarify things.
Enjoy!
Pete

What's all this talk about buying gray cards for "white" balance. In video work and according to the SD9 manual custom white balance is set by capturing a white card, paper, T-shirt, etc. I can see recording a gray card for a reference in processing (like in the film days) but not for white balance calibration. Or am I missing something?
Dave

TucsonDave,

Here's what I understand about it. White balancing is done by using something (a white card or gray) that has NO color hue. Basically the camera is adjusting itself to set a balance that will record NO color hue based upon the neutral source. I think the problem that might occur with WHITE cards is that white might (more easily?) reflect the hue of any outstanding surrounding colors, which would result in an incorrect white balance. I assume that gray cards have LESS reflective qualities than a pure white card, and therefore in theory should remain (more?) neutral (no hue being reflected off it back to the camera), thus making for a more accurate adjustment for the camera to make. (how was that for a run-on sentence)

--
http://www.pbase.com/fivesolas
http://www.pbase.com/fivesolas/morepictures
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9

Thanks.

TucsonDave said:

What's all this talk about buying gray cards for "white" balance.

Click to expand...

A gray card is designed to be neutral, or spectrally flat.

A white T-shirt or printer paper usually has fluorescent whiteners that make it spectrally strange, often bluer than white. Choosing random "white" objects to balance on can often give unpredictable results.

j

Sean said:

(puts on a dmitri mask)...

Hey, um, your dog's fur looks yellow!

(removes dmitri mask)...

Click to expand...

If you're talkin' about that patch of fur under her chin its stained from her collar. She wasn't wearing her collar when I took the picture.

Sean171735 said:

I just purchased a "digital" gray (or is it grey) card.

Click to expand...

[snip]

I think I'm going to order one of those digital grey cards. I picked up a cardboard one yesterday but its already warping due to the humidity. Better living thru plastic.

Just Looking said:

TucsonDave said:

What's all this talk about buying gray cards for "white" balance.

Click to expand...

A gray card is designed to be neutral, or spectrally flat.

A white T-shirt or printer paper usually has fluorescent whiteners
that make it spectrally strange, often bluer than white. Choosing
random "white" objects to balance on can often give unpredictable
results.

j

Click to expand...

The T-shirt thing may be true but I have never owned a gray card 18% or 50% that didn't have a white on the back. Also I have never worked on a video shoot that used gray. Only white and black.
Dave

Obscura said:

Sean said:

(puts on a dmitri mask)...

Hey, um, your dog's fur looks yellow!

(removes dmitri mask)...

Click to expand...

If you're talkin' about that patch of fur under her chin its
stained from her collar. She wasn't wearing her collar when I took
the picture.

Click to expand...

Actually I was being sarcastic by imitating a Forum Troll that used to frequent here a couple of weeks ago. All he did was repeatedly claim that SD9 photos were yellow (hence the Dmitry, Dmitri, Dimitry, however you spell it, mask). Sorry for the mixup. It's just my poor sense of humor.

--
http://www.pbase.com/fivesolas
http://www.pbase.com/fivesolas/morepictures
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9

Sean said:

Obscura said:

Sean said:

(puts on a dmitri mask)...

Hey, um, your dog's fur looks yellow!

(removes dmitri mask)...

Click to expand...

If you're talkin' about that patch of fur under her chin its
stained from her collar. She wasn't wearing her collar when I took
the picture.

Click to expand...

Actually I was being sarcastic by imitating a Forum Troll that used
to frequent here a couple of weeks ago. All he did was repeatedly
claim that SD9 photos were yellow (hence the Dmitry, Dmitri,
Dimitry, however you spell it, mask). Sorry for the mixup. It's
just my poor sense of humor.

Click to expand...

I've only been here a week or so... I was like... "what the??"

I've already seen the "SD9=yellow" thing showing up in another forum I frequent.

I'm glad it gets good color. I came from a Nikon Coolpix 5700 that never produced good color. Even when doing manual white balance it was off. I got really good at making corrections in the Gimp but quality suffered because I was working with 8bit per channel images.

I try a white piece of paper, inside my warehouse with HSP lighting and could not set the white bal out of range. Then I bought a gray card work like a charm first time. I am sold on it.

Allen

You are really using a gray (grey) card for WB? I thought you used the gray side for metering, and the white side for WB. I am headed out the door to try this...

Dale did you try it?