How do you plan to use the modeling light on the ad200 roundhead ?
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Godox AD200Pro questions on softbox, barebulb, ring flash head
- Thread starter Casey Cheung
- Start date
Casey Cheung
Senior Member
I know that even with 3x brightness with the round head, it would still be nowhere near enough intensity when placed inside a softbox. When I had my old DynaLite 2000 watt pack studio lights in the past, I blasted the modelling lights at full intensity through 60" Photoflex softboxes. When I had my old Photogenic monoblocs in the past, again I blasted the modelling lights at full intensity. So I know what is the amount of power that would be required to be of any significance when shooting through a light modifier. As for the Godox round head, maybe I would use the modelling lamp more for auto focus assist in low light while shooting outdoors at dusk? Maybe if nothing more, the model can see where she has positioned herself so she doesn't fall off the edge of a cliff? Again, dunno until maybe when the time comes. But I do like the idea of keeping the round head on the AD200Pro full time 24/7 versus the regular fresnel lens. I'm pretty certain the round head would provide more soft and even lighting versus the fresnel head. In the past, among my many flashes I used for wedding photography, one of my favorite flashes was the Sunpak 120J which had a round reflector bowl which I would have a light sock placed over it for soft lighting. So I'm used to the lighting effect coming out of a round bowl, especially one that is diffused. My one concern though is whether the round head will provide TTL exposure or not. The standard fresnel head is amazingly accurate for its TTL capability. I'm hoping the round head will do the same, if not, I will be sorely disappointed.
Sailor Blue
Forum Pro
You don't seem to know what size diffuser you should buy. Hopefully this will help you decide.
For portrait soft lighting the diffuse source of light should be as large as or larger than the subject.
Light fall off across the subject is what gives you highlights and shadows and it is these that make a flat photograph take on a 3D quality.
The best combination of softness and light fall off across a portrait subject is usually when the diffuse source of light is at a distance from the subject between 1 and 2 times the diameter/diagonal of the diffuser.
A 24" softbox is the right size for head and shoulders or head shots. A larger diffuser is needed for waist up, thigh up, or full length portraits.
A 40"-48" diffuser falls in a sort of sweet spot. It is large but it can be used for head shots to thigh up portraits. Technically something in the 60" to 72" range should be used for full length portraits.
It a diffuser in the 40"-48" range is technically too small for full length. To get even lighting you have to back it off until the light starts getting hard and the light fall of is too much. When used at shorter distances for a full length portrait you get uneven lighting along the length of the subject.
Personally for full length portraits I like using a diffuser in the 40"to 48" range at about 2 diameters/diagonals. This gives me about a 1/3 to 1/2 stop lower exposure at the feet than at the face when it is aimed it at the upper body and face. The brighter face draws the image viewer's attention to the face where I want it. The light is also starting to get a bit hard at this distance, which simply makes the small details in the full length image look sharper.
The cheapest light diffuser you can find in this size range is a white umbrella with a removable black backing.
Indoors you would usually use the umbrella in reflection mode with the black backing in place to minimize stray light, which would interfere with your control over the subject and background lighting. If you are doing a location type shoot where you want the surroundings and background to show up then use it in the shoot through mode to take advantage of the stray light. Outdoors use either mode.
If you decide you want a smaller light source just partially collapse the umbrella. Instant 32" or 28" or 24" octagonal light diffuser.
I have had three Westcott collapsible umbrellas for about 30 years and still use them. They are much smaller and much lighter than an umbrella opening softbox so they are much easier to carry.
Adorama Westcott 43" White (Collapsible) Satin Umbrella 2011
For portraiture a modeling light shows you the light on the model as you move the light or change the model's pose. Without a modeling light you are guessing at the lighting ans taking multiple test shots to find out what the lighting actually is. The lack of a good useful modeling light for portraiture is a pain in the backside.
The light you bought is not bad but it lacks a modeling light. Basically it is a more powerful hot-shoe flash that won't fit on a hot-shoe.
To get a weak and not very useful LED modeling light for the AD-200 you need to buy the AD-B2 head. By adding a second AD-200 you get a second LED bulb and finally enough modeling light to be useful.
Adorama Flashpoint eVOLV Twin Head - Bowens Mount (AD-B2)
An AD-400 would have been a better choice for your easily transportable light for portraiture since it has a bit more power and a useful modeling light.
Adorama Flashpoint XPLOR 400 Pro Compact TTL R2 Monolight - Godox AD400 Pro
For portrait soft lighting the diffuse source of light should be as large as or larger than the subject.
Light fall off across the subject is what gives you highlights and shadows and it is these that make a flat photograph take on a 3D quality.
The best combination of softness and light fall off across a portrait subject is usually when the diffuse source of light is at a distance from the subject between 1 and 2 times the diameter/diagonal of the diffuser.
A 24" softbox is the right size for head and shoulders or head shots. A larger diffuser is needed for waist up, thigh up, or full length portraits.
A 40"-48" diffuser falls in a sort of sweet spot. It is large but it can be used for head shots to thigh up portraits. Technically something in the 60" to 72" range should be used for full length portraits.
It a diffuser in the 40"-48" range is technically too small for full length. To get even lighting you have to back it off until the light starts getting hard and the light fall of is too much. When used at shorter distances for a full length portrait you get uneven lighting along the length of the subject.
Personally for full length portraits I like using a diffuser in the 40"to 48" range at about 2 diameters/diagonals. This gives me about a 1/3 to 1/2 stop lower exposure at the feet than at the face when it is aimed it at the upper body and face. The brighter face draws the image viewer's attention to the face where I want it. The light is also starting to get a bit hard at this distance, which simply makes the small details in the full length image look sharper.
The cheapest light diffuser you can find in this size range is a white umbrella with a removable black backing.
Indoors you would usually use the umbrella in reflection mode with the black backing in place to minimize stray light, which would interfere with your control over the subject and background lighting. If you are doing a location type shoot where you want the surroundings and background to show up then use it in the shoot through mode to take advantage of the stray light. Outdoors use either mode.
If you decide you want a smaller light source just partially collapse the umbrella. Instant 32" or 28" or 24" octagonal light diffuser.
I have had three Westcott collapsible umbrellas for about 30 years and still use them. They are much smaller and much lighter than an umbrella opening softbox so they are much easier to carry.
Adorama Westcott 43" White (Collapsible) Satin Umbrella 2011
For portraiture a modeling light shows you the light on the model as you move the light or change the model's pose. Without a modeling light you are guessing at the lighting ans taking multiple test shots to find out what the lighting actually is. The lack of a good useful modeling light for portraiture is a pain in the backside.
The light you bought is not bad but it lacks a modeling light. Basically it is a more powerful hot-shoe flash that won't fit on a hot-shoe.
To get a weak and not very useful LED modeling light for the AD-200 you need to buy the AD-B2 head. By adding a second AD-200 you get a second LED bulb and finally enough modeling light to be useful.
Adorama Flashpoint eVOLV Twin Head - Bowens Mount (AD-B2)
An AD-400 would have been a better choice for your easily transportable light for portraiture since it has a bit more power and a useful modeling light.
Adorama Flashpoint XPLOR 400 Pro Compact TTL R2 Monolight - Godox AD400 Pro
tugwilson
Senior Member
That's not my experience. I own H200Rs and AD-B2s. I'm not a big fan of modeling lights except in some specific circumstances (using focusing hard light modifires, for example) but I have used both and for a single AD200 the H200R out performs the AD-B2. I think that this is because the LED is in a high performance reflector in the H200R whilst on the AD-B2 is sitting on the surface of the heat sink.
There is some confusion/controversy on the power of the LEDs on the AD-B2. This isn't helped by the fact that there is no published Godox spec of the device. Adorama claim them to be 10W devices giving the dual powered AD-B2 20W. I find that very hard to believe. When launched Godox claimed 10W but didn't say if that was the total or the per LED power. It looks more like 5W per LED to me.
If i cared more about it I'd run a test to see how long the AD-B2 took to discharge a fully charged AD200 vs the time taken by an H200R. Anybody up for running that test?
Casey Cheung
Senior Member
Based on glowing reviews and the easy folding design for setup and tear-down, I'm going to order this softbox below. Anyone else use this?
Glow EZ Lock Collapsible Silver Beauty Dish (34")
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CXMMFFV/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A17MC6HOH9AVE6&psc=1
Glow EZ Lock Collapsible Silver Beauty Dish (34")
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CXMMFFV/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A17MC6HOH9AVE6&psc=1
Sailor Blue
Forum Pro
Thanks for posting your experience with the LED modeling light brightness between the AD200 Round Head and the AD-B2.
FLASH HAVOC - FLASHPOINT EVOLV 200 / AD200 Round Head – Announced | FLASH HAVOC
I don't see any utility in a round head flash vs a bare bulb flash in a softbox but the directed light from a rectangular or round headed hot-flash is easier to use with an umbrella.
With a bare bulb in an umbrella you really need to add an umbrella reflector to keep light from the bare bulb from spilling past the rim of the umbrella. An umbrella reflector is simply a very wide angle or flat metal reflector such as this one from Godox.
Amazon.com - Godox Aluminum 120° 12.2" Wide Angle Reflector Bowens Mount Diffuser Dish for Photography Studio Strobe Light : Camera & Photo
With the AD200 and bare bulb, what if you inserted deep enough so the bulb is inside the edge of the umbrella ?
Casey Cheung
Senior Member
Phottix Raja softbox
Just an update here. I know I keep changing my mind about a softbox, but I ended up getting this softbox below today cuz the sales guy showed me just how easy setup and tear-down is with literally only one hand. I was amazed by the ease of this design that I plopped down the $130 which was more than I was expecting to spend. The sales guy says this Phottix Raja softbox is premium quality just a notch under the Westcott brand.
Phottix Raja Parabolic Softbox (26")
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ix_ph82721_raja_quick_folding_softbox_26.html
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tugwilson
Senior Member
The bare bulb produces almost a sphere of light so you would still get light coming back at you which had not been reflected from the umbrella. There are at least three reflectors that will fit directly on the bare bulb. I've tried all three, none are as effective as the round head for this purpose.
Congratulations on your purchase. What stopped you from getting the 41" size?
Phottix Raja softbox
Just an update here. I know I keep changing my mind about a softbox, but I ended up getting this softbox below today cuz the sales guy showed me just how easy setup and tear-down is with literally only one hand. I was amazed by the ease of this design that I plopped down the $130 which was more than I was expecting to spend. The sales guy says this Phottix Raja softbox is premium quality just a notch under the Westcott brand.
Phottix Raja Parabolic Softbox (26")
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ix_ph82721_raja_quick_folding_softbox_26.html
Casey Cheung
Senior Member
Yeah, thanks! Actually, I did ask the sales guy for the next size larger around 32 inches, but he said the only thing available in that size is the DEEP dish model (link below). I don't want a deep dish softbox cuz it's just extra size that I don't want to carry around.Congratulations on your purchase. What stopped you from getting the 41" size?
Phottix Raja softbox
Just an update here. I know I keep changing my mind about a softbox, but I ended up getting this softbox below today cuz the sales guy showed me just how easy setup and tear-down is with literally only one hand. I was amazed by the ease of this design that I plopped down the $130 which was more than I was expecting to spend. The sales guy says this Phottix Raja softbox is premium quality just a notch under the Westcott brand.
Phottix Raja Parabolic Softbox (26")
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ix_ph82721_raja_quick_folding_softbox_26.html
The sales guy did in fact show me the 41 inch (non-deep dish) model, and I must say, it was laaaaarge. The 41 inch is way to big to lug around town for outdoor use, especially if it's used with the Godox AD200Pro flash (just my opinion). The 41 inch model only costs a little bit more than my 26 inch model, so it wasn't about the cost, it's just too big for my needs.
The Phottix softbox is currently attached to my Godox SL-60 LED video light. I need to order the new/improved Godox S2 S-Type Bowens bracket (link below) to attach to the Phottix softbox so that my Godox AD200Pro will hopefully work with the Phottix softbox. If this doesn't work, I would have to get a separate softbox to use with the AD200Pro flash. Anyone know if the Godox S2 bracket will attach to the Phottix softbox with its built-in Bowens speedring so I can mount the AD200Pro flash??
By the way, the added black honeycomb grid makes a huuuuge noticeable difference in outputting softer light! I was amazed!
Godox S2 speedring
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YMZZY68/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_5?smid=A3P9EAC3KD93H7&psc=1
Phottix 32" deep dish pizza ;-P
https://www.amazon.com/Phottix-Raja...c+softbox&qid=1573745777&s=electronics&sr=1-2
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tugwilson
Senior Member
Yes, that's the point of the bracket it has a Bowens mount. You can use any Bowns compatible modifier using the bracket.
The grid shouldn't make the light softer it should make it more directional. If anything grids make the light a little bit harder.
I guess I never really worry about it much. With my shoot through umbrellas, I add a silver reflect cover to bounce light back into the umbrella. With my reflect umbrella, I add a diffuser to the fromt which makes it like a softbox.
Casey Cheung
Senior Member
There was a striking difference in light quality as soon as I attached the black honeycomb grid. I took headshot pics of my wife with and with-out the grid, and my wife who knows nothing about photography says the images of her with the grid on look way better. Yes, I realize the grid is suppose to make the lighting more directional, but it also makes the light softer. The results are immediate and obvious. All the theory mumbo jumbo goes out the window when viewing the results side by side. Not trying to start an argument, but from now on, I will always use the grid!
My wife now insists on it, haha
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You and your wife prefer the look of the shot with the grid.
Sometimes it is easy to confuse lighting terms. A grid provides more subject isolation. The surroundings are darker and if you keep the strobe power the same, the subject is also a little darker. You may have the term "softer" confused with something else.
You and your wife probably prefer the shots with the grid because it brings more attention to the subject and if you kept the strobe power the same, the shot had a darker exposure.
Can you post pictures of your shots with and without the grid ?
--
https://www.instagram.com/rchau.photo
Sometimes it is easy to confuse lighting terms. A grid provides more subject isolation. The surroundings are darker and if you keep the strobe power the same, the subject is also a little darker. You may have the term "softer" confused with something else.
You and your wife probably prefer the shots with the grid because it brings more attention to the subject and if you kept the strobe power the same, the shot had a darker exposure.
Can you post pictures of your shots with and without the grid ?
--
https://www.instagram.com/rchau.photo
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tugwilson
Senior Member
To see how soft a light is lean a broom handle against a plane wall then photograph it using your ungridded softbox. Do the same with the box gridded. A softer light will have a less distinct edge to the shadow.
I suspect you are not using the term correctly.
Soft light hits the subject from many directions at once. It softens shadows (e.g. wrinkles in skin). We use diffusion material in softboxes to mix up the direction of the light emitted. When you put a grid on the softbox the grid absorbs some of the light leaving the diffusion layer at shallow angles. This has the effect of mildly hardening the light.
I suspect you are not using the term correctly.
Soft light hits the subject from many directions at once. It softens shadows (e.g. wrinkles in skin). We use diffusion material in softboxes to mix up the direction of the light emitted. When you put a grid on the softbox the grid absorbs some of the light leaving the diffusion layer at shallow angles. This has the effect of mildly hardening the light.
Casey Cheung
Senior Member
I'm sure the wording I used was probably not technically correct. What I'm sure of is that the lighting effect produced from the grid was more "pleasing" to the eye, both my eyes and hers. Unfortunately, she's not particularly wiling to be my test model and told me to delete the pics after shooting them. So that means she doesn't want me posting pics of her. I had seen a bunch of Youtube videos of photogs shooting portraits on-location with an octagonal shaped softbox with the same black grid (aka: egg shell carton?) attached and always wondered why they do that. Now I know why.
Casey Cheung
Senior Member
I think someone here mentioned about getting the AD-B2 adapter, but I don't remember who. I just got the AD-B2 adapter today after the sales guy showed me a demonstration. I was impressed by the usable 3 levels of modelling light brightness with the adapter. At the highest level 3 setting inside the Phottix Raja softbox, there really is enough modelling light coming through 2 layers of white diffusion panel to see the subject. It's so cool!
I wasn't planning on using the barebulb much at first, but now that I have the AD-B2 adapter, I have no choice but to use it much more when attached to the softbox! For whoever has the AD-B2 adapter, are you using it with 1 or 2 AD200 flashes? If 2 flashes attached to the AD-B2, is the modelling light 2 times brighter plus 2 times the flash power? Is the whole rig unwieldy and large with 2 AD200 units attached to a softbox??
Does anyone have the Phottix Cerberus mount adapter (see picture attached). I wasn't able to make it attach to the back of the Phottix Raja softbox Bowen mount. I need to go back to the camera store tomorrow to inquire on this. Only the AD-B2 adapter/speedring worked correctly for attaching to the back of the softbox, but not this Phottix Cerberus adapter.
Godox AD-B2 adapter & Phottix Raja softbox & Phottix Cerberus adapter
I wasn't planning on using the barebulb much at first, but now that I have the AD-B2 adapter, I have no choice but to use it much more when attached to the softbox! For whoever has the AD-B2 adapter, are you using it with 1 or 2 AD200 flashes? If 2 flashes attached to the AD-B2, is the modelling light 2 times brighter plus 2 times the flash power? Is the whole rig unwieldy and large with 2 AD200 units attached to a softbox??
Does anyone have the Phottix Cerberus mount adapter (see picture attached). I wasn't able to make it attach to the back of the Phottix Raja softbox Bowen mount. I need to go back to the camera store tomorrow to inquire on this. Only the AD-B2 adapter/speedring worked correctly for attaching to the back of the softbox, but not this Phottix Cerberus adapter.
Godox AD-B2 adapter & Phottix Raja softbox & Phottix Cerberus adapter
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Sailor Blue
Forum Pro
The body of the strobe then is all that is keeping light from the flash tube/bulb spread to the sides. How well it will work depends on how far the flash tube/bulb extends in front of the body of the strobe.
A reflector is safer, will direct a bit more light into the umbrella, and will more evenly illuminate the entire umbrella without allowing light to spill past the rim.
There is one problem with the above wide angle reflector I forgot to mention - you can't use it with an umbrella the way it comes. You need to add a hole in the reflector for the umbrella shaft to pass through.
Mount the reflector on the S-Bracket. Insert the umbrella shaft through the S-Bracket umbrella holder from the back of the bracket. Put some masking tape on the back of the reflector where the umbrella shaft will touch the back side of the reflector. Butt the umbrella shaft up against the tape and draw around the umbrella shaft. Because of the slant of the reflector you should wind up drawing an oval, not a circle. Remove the reflector and drill a hole slightly bigger than the oval marked on the tape. You can now insert the umbrella shaft though this hole into the S-Bracket's umbrella holder.
tugwilson
Senior Member
The salesman seem to have sold you this , he should have sold you this.I think someone here mentioned about getting the AD-B2 adapter, but I don't remember who. I just got the AD-B2 adapter today after the sales guy showed me a demonstration. I was impressed by the usable 3 levels of modelling light brightness with the adapter. At the highest level 3 setting inside the Phottix Raja softbox, there really is enough modelling light coming through 2 layers of white diffusion panel to see the subject. It's so cool!
I wasn't planning on using the barebulb much at first, but now that I have the AD-B2 adapter, I have no choice but to use it much more when attached to the softbox! For whoever has the AD-B2 adapter, are you using it with 1 or 2 AD200 flashes? If 2 flashes attached to the AD-B2, is the modelling light 2 times brighter plus 2 times the flash power? Is the whole rig unwieldy and large with 2 AD200 units attached to a softbox??
Does anyone have the Phottix Cerberus mount adapter (see picture attached). I wasn't able to make it attach to the back of the Phottix Raja softbox Bowen mount. I need to go back to the camera store tomorrow to inquire on this. Only the AD-B2 adapter/speedring worked correctly for attaching to the back of the softbox, but not this Phottix Cerberus adapter.
Godox AD-B2 adapter & Phottix Raja softbox & Phottix Cerberus adapter
However you really need neither of these. You have an AD-B2 which will let you use the bare bulb in the softbox. The bare bulb is exactly what you want to use in a softbox the fresnel head produces the wrong pattern of light in a softbox.
You say you have an S2 bracket on order; that is cheaper, lighter and better at holding the AD200 than the Phottix bracket. I'd suggest you get a refund.
A good use for the fresnel head is bouncing light off walls and ceilings.
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