So who is buying the x pro 3?

I guess I still like through the lens cameras. You lose any indication of where your AF point will be at anything more distant than your current focus position. There's no way of knowing how the current position relates to the infinity position, so if you refocus from something close to something further away, there's no way to predict where the AF frame will jump. But that's me. Great street camera but why?

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Steve Bingham
 
I guess I still like through the lens cameras. You lose any indication of where your AF point will be at anything more distant than your current focus position. There's no way of knowing how the current position relates to the infinity position, so if you refocus from something close to something further away, there's no way to predict where the AF frame will jump. But that's me. Great street camera but why?

--

Steve Bingham
On the X-Pro2 the AF field being used jumps to the equivalent focusing frame according to distance, if you reframe, the AF point jumps accordingly. A matter of a split second. I never found this to be a problem.

Deed
 
Me. When the price copmes down a little bit.
 
I guess I still like through the lens cameras. You lose any indication of where your AF point will be at anything more distant than your current focus position. There's no way of knowing how the current position relates to the infinity position, so if you refocus from something close to something further away, there's no way to predict where the AF frame will jump. But that's me. Great street camera but why?
Steve, if there’s one thing I’d observe about the X-Pro series in general is that you either “get it” or you don’t (hint: I’m in the latter category). A lot of that comes from one’s background as a photographer and how much time you might have spent either using or admiring RF cameras in the past. I come strictly from the DSLR world and the move to mirrorless was pretty seamless to me after I got used to the quirks and differences. I never really got into rangefinders and can’t honestly say I have any desire to do so now. I’ve also never been into street photography.

However, you only have to look at the rather fiery controversy the X-Pro3 has stirred up the recognize that there is a strong following here and a lot of passion behind it. That really can’t be ignored. And, in fact, a goodly number of the X-Pro faithful here are almost certainly folks with a lot of experience with pre-digital RF cameras, so I can see the appeal even if it doesn’t apply to me particularly.

So, you either stick with what’s comfortable, or if you’re really adventurous, you give one a try and see how much you like it, or how readily you can get used to its operation. I’ve been viewing all this hoo hah from a comfortable distance, but clearly it’s a camera design that evokes a lot of passion and it sets Fuji aside from its competition.

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Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod
 
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I guess I still like through the lens cameras. You lose any indication of where your AF point will be at anything more distant than your current focus position. There's no way of knowing how the current position relates to the infinity position, so if you refocus from something close to something further away, there's no way to predict where the AF frame will jump. But that's me. Great street camera but why?
The OVF axis is different than the lens axis. This produces parallax, that is the field of view of the lens is slightly offset from that in the viewfinder. In the TLR's of old, with the viewfinder lens above the actual lens, the field of view in the view finder was above that projected onto the film. In a range finder set up the FOV onto the film/sensor is to your right and down from the viewfinder. Leica introduced parallax correction that is the frame lines moved to show you what the film frame was going to record. Since a range finder focuses completely through the viewfinder, there was no issue with focal point. With on sensor AF, they where you focal point is becomes important.

Hence Fuji as implemented in their parallax correction when you go to focus, the focus point is moved to reflect parallax and what is shown is the location the focal point seen by the sensor. You refocus to a different distance, it moves because the parallax changes.

Works find. It might some getting used to. After awhile, you develop a feel for the parallax and your brain compensates in the background.

The one reason many like used a Leica or other rangefinder for street is size and the ability to see outside the frame that is going to be used to take the picture. It helps in quick composition to see more than what the camera sees. That's why there are frame lines.

Some people prefer that, some don't. Myself I find myself somewhat constrained by a viewfinder that doesn't give me more than the picture frame.
 
I'm waiting to rent it and see how it performs and if it fit my needs. I'm considering switching from Sony full frame at the moment.

--
Try to set the night on fire...
I dare you.
 
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And, in fact, a goodly number of the X-Pro faithful here are almost certainly folks with a lot of experience with pre-digital RF cameras, so I can see the appeal even if it doesn’t apply to me particularly.

I’ve been viewing all this hoo hah from a comfortable distance, but clearly it’s a camera design that evokes a lot of passion and it sets Fuji aside from its competition.
I'm in the group to which Jerry refers. My first 35mm camera was a second hand Sears Tower rangefinder (I can't find the real manufacturer, I've heard Konica or Ricoh) I bought for $25.00. I still have slides I took with it on a 1966 trip to Europe when I was in Junior High. When I was 17 I got a job at a local TV station and they used Leica M3s for a copy stand camera and various other functions. I've been shooting with a Leica since.

My history with rangefinders made me fall in love with the X-Pro2. I ended up with the X-E3, which is even closer to the size of the M3.



6d310ab31a9b4b37ac9740a6a7bc0874.jpg



My X-E3 and my 1962 Leica M3
My X-E3 and my 1962 Leica M3
 
Doubt it. I actually like the LCD concept, waist level is the only significant way I use the LCD on my X-T3 anyway. And I also like that it’s hidden, no nose-grease and it looks like a good old-fashioned camera. There are two major problems: The lack of grip and no forward shutter button, and the fact that (seemingly) you can’t open the LCD with a tripod plate attached. In my opinion, the obvious best way to shoot is with a Manfrotto plate permanently attached to the camera and with a hand grip strap attached to the plate (Camdapter style). Any design which prevents this is flawed in my opinion.
Here is the X-Pro3 handgrip, it looks good for larger lenses like the 90mm. No Manfrotto plate but with the 180 degree screen design is that a realistic expectation you have for this camera really?

 
X pro 2 was my first fuji but I sold it since I don't use the OVF that much. X100F is probably my most loved fuji to date, and I will probably want the x100V, but again I never really used the OVF. I'm using the xt 3 now while waiting for an x100V to come out. But thay x pro 3 is definitely triggering soem gear lust and GAS. I'm considering trading my xt 3 for an x pro 3 and have a 2 body setup with the x100 series.

I want to know for those planning on buying the pro 3, why and what lens setups do you use? I know theres plenty of commentary and why people are NOT buying it, kind of just interested in those who are buying.
Me!

Because I really dislike EVFs, especially the jumpy ones thanks to aperture chatter. Currently I use a Leica M10 for events but will switch for AF, assuming the Pro 3 is actually properly useable in low light for AF
 
I'm waiting to rent it and see how it performs and if it fit my needs. I'm considering switching from Sony full frame at the moment.
As a fellow Sony a7R owner I would recommend keeping your R2 for the resolution and full frame "look" when needed or wanted. I have my X-Pro3 pre-ordered (Dura-Silver) and view the systems as complimentary. Sony as the V-8 muscle car for raw acceleration and Fujifilm as the sports car for the curves. ;-)
 
That would certainly be true, Jerry. That's why I said "for me" in bold. I am too old fashioned I guess (to change, that is). Great camera, but it seems like Fuji is going backwards. :)
I guess I still like through the lens cameras. You lose any indication of where your AF point will be at anything more distant than your current focus position. There's no way of knowing how the current position relates to the infinity position, so if you refocus from something close to something further away, there's no way to predict where the AF frame will jump. But that's me. Great street camera but why?
Steve, if there’s one thing I’d observe about the X-Pro series in general is that you either “get it” or you don’t (hint: I’m in the latter category). A lot of that comes from one’s background as a photographer and how much time you might have spent either using or admiring RF cameras in the past. I come strictly from the DSLR world and the move to mirrorless was pretty seamless to me after I got used to the quirks and differences. I never really got into rangefinders and can’t honestly say I have any desire to do so now. I’ve also never been into street photography.

However, you only have to look at the rather fiery controversy the X-Pro3 has stirred up the recognize that there is a strong following here and a lot of passion behind it. That really can’t be ignored. And, in fact, a goodly number of the X-Pro faithful here are almost certainly folks with a lot of experience with pre-digital RF cameras, so I can see the appeal even if it doesn’t apply to me particularly.

So, you either stick with what’s comfortable, or if you’re really adventurous, you give one a try and see how much you like it, or how readily you can get used to its operation. I’ve been viewing all this hoo hah from a comfortable distance, but clearly it’s a camera design that evokes a lot of passion and it sets Fuji aside from its competition.
 
Nice point Truman and Doug. Different strokes for different folks. :)
I guess I still like through the lens cameras. You lose any indication of where your AF point will be at anything more distant than your current focus position. There's no way of knowing how the current position relates to the infinity position, so if you refocus from something close to something further away, there's no way to predict where the AF frame will jump. But that's me. Great street camera but why?
The OVF axis is different than the lens axis. This produces parallax, that is the field of view of the lens is slightly offset from that in the viewfinder. In the TLR's of old, with the viewfinder lens above the actual lens, the field of view in the view finder was above that projected onto the film. In a range finder set up the FOV onto the film/sensor is to your right and down from the viewfinder. Leica introduced parallax correction that is the frame lines moved to show you what the film frame was going to record. Since a range finder focuses completely through the viewfinder, there was no issue with focal point. With on sensor AF, they where you focal point is becomes important.

Hence Fuji as implemented in their parallax correction when you go to focus, the focus point is moved to reflect parallax and what is shown is the location the focal point seen by the sensor. You refocus to a different distance, it moves because the parallax changes.

Works find. It might some getting used to. After awhile, you develop a feel for the parallax and your brain compensates in the background.

The one reason many like used a Leica or other rangefinder for street is size and the ability to see outside the frame that is going to be used to take the picture. It helps in quick composition to see more than what the camera sees. That's why there are frame lines.

Some people prefer that, some don't. Myself I find myself somewhat constrained by a viewfinder that doesn't give me more than the picture frame.
 
That would certainly be true, Jerry. That's why I said "for me" in bold. I am too old fashioned I guess (to change, that is). Great camera, but it seems like Fuji is going backwards. :)
Well, even though my experience and preferences vastly differ from most of those who are the most upset about the XP3 design, I understand and respect their disappointment. I’m sure there are some Fuji design and marketing folks scratching their heads now an trying to grasp what all the furor is about, where [for some anyway] they might have missed the mark, and what to do about it over time.

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Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod
 
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I have been reading through all threads about the Xpro3 here - do you really think that any of the Fuji people are scratching their head about a handful posters complaining?
 
I have been reading through all threads about the Xpro3 here - do you really think that any of the Fuji people are scratching their head about a handful posters complaining?
Well, I doubt that anyone in Fuji-land is losing much sleep over it quite yet, but I'm betting that they have a few folks who periodically monitor forums like this as well as social media. Now, how much influence that ultimately has over their future designs might reasonably be questioned, but I wouldn't be surprised if this has a few product marketing and design folks chatting at least. It's very early in the product's life and the design is committed, so nothing will change in the short term. However, at least from my own 40+ years experience in product development prior to retirement, anyone who doesn't listen to customers will pay the price over time. That said, IMHO, a lot of what you're hearing now will fall into the category of "noise" and the actual sales of the product will be far more of an influential indicator as to whether Fuji actually hit or missed the mark. In my own case, had I acted quickly on early negative feedback on some new and controversial products, the end result would in some cases have been disastrous. Only time will tell whether Fuji's design will be successful in spite of all the angst it's generating here at the present.
 
XH2
 
I will. Despite my intense dislike and frustration with the LCD design, it remains the only camera in the world with a hybrid finder and Fujifilm's latest and greatest AF.

Will pay early adopter price in my country too - it's priced higher than an a73. A bit pricey for something that isn't going to be an all-rounder camera for me, but I try to justify it by thinking the next XPro is at least 4 years away anyways. And the way things are going, the next one might be an Instax Pro instead, because, you know, what could be more "pure" than printing your photo's right? ;)

But on a more serious note, I'm hoping my local dealer will at least have some deals on bundles with the WR primes, which they occasionally do. e..g ~$250 for the Fujicrons if bought with a body.
 
That said, IMHO, a lot of what you're hearing now will fall into the category of "noise" and the actual sales of the product will be far more of an influential indicator as to whether Fuji actually hit or missed the mark. In my own case, had I acted quickly on early negative feedback on some new and controversial products, the end result would in some cases have been disastrous. Only time will tell whether Fuji's design will be successful in spite of all the angst it's generating here at the present.
Internet fora, Internet reviews, blogs, YouTube reviews, etc. are more or less noise. Before the advent of the Internet, reviews were in publications that cost money to produce and there was much better editorial and quality control. Today for a few bucks anyone can buy a domain name and start their very own web site or better yet for free, throw all sorts of noise about a product on Internet fora, social media. There is no editorial control of any sort, not even any fact checking. I other words it is the Wild West. That is not really a reliable source now is it? Even the sources that claim to be unbiased, like DPR have skin in the game since their parent makes money by selling among other things camera gear. Granted DPR is better than most but the are not free of a conflict of interest.



I would suspect Fuji does regularly monitors the market and scientifically measures the market and develops a complementary line of camera models to satisfy their target market. If Fuji management meet or exceed revenue and profit expectations they will get bonuses. If they don’t the pink slips flow.



Fuji is a niche camera company. They always have been, even in film cameras. The XPro is niche line within the Fuji line. I suspect Fuji doesn’t expect to sell a large volume of XPro which probably speaks to the long replacement cycle compared to other models. The Pro was not designed to be a mainstream such as the XT or XH. It is an expensive camera mostly because of the integrated hybrid VF and other than Leica is the only mirroless with a usable optical finder and you pay a premium for that hybrid VF.



it will be successful if it meets its projections. Of course, Fuji does not share such things we Internet fora.

The good news about whiners is they typically have a short attention span. When the rumor about the next camera or lens surfaces, the Pro3 will be long forgotten as the feeding frenzy starts circling that model to pollute the Internet bandwidth. I can’t wait for the food fights over the new Fuji 50 f1! :-D
 
Internet fora, Internet reviews, blogs, YouTube reviews, etc. are more or less noise. Before the advent of the Internet, reviews were in publications that cost money to produce and there was much better editorial and quality control. Today for a few bucks anyone can buy a domain name and start their very own web site or better yet for free, throw all sorts of noise about a product on Internet fora, social media. There is no editorial control of any sort, not even any fact checking. I other words it is the Wild West. That is not really a reliable source now is it? Even the sources that claim to be unbiased, like DPR have skin in the game since their parent makes money by selling among other things camera gear. Granted DPR is better than most but the are not free of a conflict of interest.

I would suspect Fuji does regularly monitors the market and scientifically measures the market and develops a complementary line of camera models to satisfy their target market. If Fuji management meet or exceed revenue and profit expectations they will get bonuses. If they don’t the pink slips flow.

Fuji is a niche camera company. They always have been, even in film cameras. The XPro is niche line within the Fuji line. I suspect Fuji doesn’t expect to sell a large volume of XPro which probably speaks to the long replacement cycle compared to other models. The Pro was not designed to be a mainstream such as the XT or XH. It is an expensive camera mostly because of the integrated hybrid VF and other than Leica is the only mirroless with a usable optical finder and you pay a premium for that hybrid VF.

it will be successful if it meets its projections. Of course, Fuji does not share such things we Internet fora.

The good news about whiners is they typically have a short attention span. When the rumor about the next camera or lens surfaces, the Pro3 will be long forgotten as the feeding frenzy starts circling that model to pollute the Internet bandwidth. I can’t wait for the food fights over the new Fuji 50 f1! :-D
Yup. Bottom line is that the success of the product -- controversial or otherwise -- will be determined by how well it sells, not by the amount of hoo hah it raises in DPR's forums. It's a niche product to begin with and the measure of success will be its overall popularity as opposed to early reactions from the "faithful" here. The real question will be whether it will appeal to users "new to the fold" regardless whether it might be a bit disappointing to those already invested in the product line. That's a bit harder to ascertain simply from reading early reactions here.

Since I have zero "skin in this game" I'm strictly an observer and it will be interesting to see how it pans out. I do have to give Fuji some kudos for being willing to take some risks. Time will tell whether those risks actually paid off.
 

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