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Z7 video crop mode(s) -> longest reach?

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dprFollower

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I recently started filming in nature (birds and some deer, squirrel etc.) with my Z7 and an AF-P 70-300 E (FX) lens. Of course, I quickly started looking for the longest reach because animals are shy.. ;-)

I only need 1080p (I do not even have a 4k display..) and currently I'm filming in DX crop mode at 4k and then crop in post (using premiere) to 1080p. I got decent results even of kingfishers (camoflage helps a lot), but I'm wondering if there is a "better" way to get this kind of reach without having to crop the 4k footage? I would also like to record at 60 fps (where certain pans might look better) but 4k seems to not allow for this. Do external recorders offer other video modes, i.e. to crop the 4k footage "on the fly" or something like that?

I'm also wondering how the Z7 samples 1080p footage in FF and DX mode (skipping, binning, oversampling)? I only found 4k sampling info but no 1080p..

Thanks for any tips!
 
dprFollower said:
I recently started filming in nature (birds and some deer, squirrel etc.) with my Z7 and an AF-P 70-300 E (FX) lens. Of course, I quickly started looking for the longest reach because animals are shy.. ;-)

I only need 1080p (I do not even have a 4k display..) and currently I'm filming in DX crop mode at 4k and then crop in post (using premiere) to 1080p. I got decent results even of kingfishers (camoflage helps a lot), but I'm wondering if there is a "better" way to get this kind of reach without having to crop the 4k footage? I would also like to record at 60 fps (where certain pans might look better) but 4k seems to not allow for this. Do external recorders offer other video modes, i.e. to crop the 4k footage "on the fly" or something like that?

I'm also wondering how the Z7 samples 1080p footage in FF and DX mode (skipping, binning, oversampling)? I only found 4k sampling info but no 1080p..

Thanks for any tips!
Click to expand...
Hate to say it, but I would recommend a different camera then. If you only want 1080p with 60FPS, try getting something like a Nikon 1 V3 + FT1 (adapter for your lens).

It will give you more reach and probably better quality video than cropping down a Z7. And it will probably be cheaper than getting an external recorder.
 
dprFollower said:
I recently started filming in nature (birds and some deer, squirrel etc.) with my Z7 and an AF-P 70-300 E (FX) lens. Of course, I quickly started looking for the longest reach because animals are shy.. ;-)

I only need 1080p (I do not even have a 4k display..) and currently I'm filming in DX crop mode at 4k and then crop in post (using premiere) to 1080p. I got decent results even of kingfishers (camoflage helps a lot), but I'm wondering if there is a "better" way to get this kind of reach without having to crop the 4k footage? I would also like to record at 60 fps (where certain pans might look better) but 4k seems to not allow for this. Do external recorders offer other video modes, i.e. to crop the 4k footage "on the fly" or something like that?

I'm also wondering how the Z7 samples 1080p footage in FF and DX mode (skipping, binning, oversampling)? I only found 4k sampling info but no 1080p..

Thanks for any tips!
Click to expand...
Curiously, I was perhaps one of the few who found the D500’s 1.5x crop (an effective 2.25 on FF/FX) for video at 4K very useful as it gave that extra reach you are after. I still shot 4K as that was very good but would re-render in post. With an external monitor and manual focus, it works very well indeed.

Unfortunately the Zs don’t give that option.
 
Right an additional crop like your D500 sounds really good. My 7100 has an additional 1.3 crop but it offers no 4k, so no luck with that cam either.
The Z7 has more than enough megapixels and processing power, but the full potential seems only be offered for stills so far (where its actually VERY useful). Strange but I guess Nikon wants to sell their longer lenses this way.. ;-)

Thanks for your input Richard.
 
Thanks beatboxa, that's an interesting option I did not consider yet. It should give me around the same reach as my cropped 4k but at 60 fps instead of 30.

For now I went a different route: a 150-600 is on its way to me. :-) That should give around 2x the reach and I can potentially also shoot 1080p60 in DX mode (giving up the reach then). But if that reach is still not enough, putting the Nikon1 v3 on it will be an interesting option. But lets see for how long I'm willing to lug the 150-600 around.. ;-)
 
If reach is what you're after there's always the Nikon P1000 with its 3000mm.
 
Right, that would be another potential option (and not too pricey from what I've seen). For now I got a 150-600 and noticed how hard it can be to stabilize it at 600mm (usually I'm quickly switching between taking photos and filming, since that's so convenient with the Z7), so I guess my wish for even more reach has declined already a bit for now.. ;) But I'm excited to learn how to best handle such long and comparably heavy lenses.

Thanks for your input!
 
dprFollower said:
Right, that would be another potential option (and not too pricey from what I've seen). For now I got a 150-600 and noticed how hard it can be to stabilize it at 600mm (usually I'm quickly switching between taking photos and filming, since that's so convenient with the Z7), so I guess my wish for even more reach has declined already a bit for now.. ;) But I'm excited to learn how to best handle such long and comparably heavy lenses.

Thanks for your input!
Click to expand...
Using a 600mm lens for video is really not a practical hand-held proposition. Neither is a stabilising gimbal much of a practical option because the lens balancing point makes fitting it almost impossible on any consumer grade rig (I'd guess there are super expensive commercial ones available that would be large enough). Consequently, it really requires the use of a good solid tripod and a video (e.g. fluid) head with a panning arm and levelling base (built in or additional). Then it can work.
 
Yes I totally agree Richard. Maybe my last post was a bit misleading: I already have a steady tripod and a fluid video head (with a counter balance system). Some time ago I tried hand holding video at 300mm, but even with VR I had to stabilize in post, which is time-consuming and annoying. But even with my setup, for 600mm focal length (and respective lens weight) I need to practice smooth panning and starts/stops etc. Diagonal pans seem to be the holy grail, at least for me atm.
For hand holding the 150-600 even longer than 10 sec I would need a few month in the gymn I guess.. ;-)
 
dprFollower said:
Yes I totally agree Richard. Maybe my last post was a bit misleading: I already have a steady tripod and a fluid video head (with a counter balance system). Some time ago I tried hand holding video at 300mm, but even with VR I had to stabilize in post, which is time-consuming and annoying. But even with my setup, for 600mm focal length (and respective lens weight) I need to practice smooth panning and starts/stops etc. Diagonal pans seem to be the holy grail, at least for me atm.
For hand holding the 150-600 even longer than 10 sec I would need a few month in the gymn I guess.. ;-)
Click to expand...
Ah, I had read it as you were trying to handhold. Apologies for that assumption. Simply put, using long lenses well is an acquired skill :-) Handheld they can injure you too. After one two week trip I returned with tennis elbow that took several months to properly go away. I’ve been more careful since...
 
beatboxa said:
MSullivan said:
If reach is what you're after there's always the Nikon P1000 with its 3000mm.
Click to expand...
The P1000 does not have 3000mm. It has 539mm, on a 16MP, 1/2.3" sensor.
Click to expand...
Is it really necessary to write "FF equivalent"? I assumed it was obvious. In any case, regardless of the actual technical mm, it has lots of reach in a hand-holdable package.
 
MSullivan said:
beatboxa said:
MSullivan said:
If reach is what you're after there's always the Nikon P1000 with its 3000mm.
Click to expand...
The P1000 does not have 3000mm. It has 539mm, on a 16MP, 1/2.3" sensor.
Click to expand...
Is it really necessary to write "FF equivalent"? I assumed it was obvious. In any case, regardless of the actual technical mm, it has lots of reach in a hand-holdable package.
Click to expand...
Yes, these technicalities are necessary when discussing reach, because reach is not a function of sensor size.

For example, a D500 & D850 both have the same reach with the same lens, even though a given lens will provide different angles of view before cropping. In this context of reach, it is a misnomer to say a 500mm full-frame lens is 750mm equivalent on a D500 when compared to that same lens on a D850. It's fine to say the equivalence only if you don't crop and use images as is, but this is a distinct concept that is different from reach.

So what's actually important for reach is the actual focal length and the pixel density. "Equivalent focal length" is meaningless.
 
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Richard B99 said:
dprFollower said:
Right, that would be another potential option (and not too pricey from what I've seen). For now I got a 150-600 and noticed how hard it can be to stabilize it at 600mm (usually I'm quickly switching between taking photos and filming, since that's so convenient with the Z7), so I guess my wish for even more reach has declined already a bit for now.. ;) But I'm excited to learn how to best handle such long and comparably heavy lenses.

Thanks for your input!
Click to expand...
Using a 600mm lens for video is really not a practical hand-held proposition. Neither is a stabilising gimbal much of a practical option because the lens balancing point makes fitting it almost impossible on any consumer grade rig (I'd guess there are super expensive commercial ones available that would be large enough). Consequently, it really requires the use of a good solid tripod and a video (e.g. fluid) head with a panning arm and levelling base (built in or additional). Then it can work.
Click to expand...
I use the Sigma 150-600 C on my Z 6 and D500 and you are absolutely correct about needing a sturdy base.

Even a small amount of wind at 600mm will make it move. Using VR/IBIS makes it drift so I turn that off.

I have a Manfrotto 502 fluid head and its not that great with this setup. I had to add more weight to the whole rig to dampen the movement but now the head is probably at it's limit and not very smooth.

Using a super tele for video and wanting to pan/track moving subjects will take a lot of practice and probably more GAS for bigger tripods and heads. A good external monitor will be on the list then be prepared to be annoyed that panning 180 degrees while keeping your frame is the realm of true professional ;)

It does however give a new appreciation to the good folks who film for Nat Geo, etc.
 
Couldn't agree more on your points!

I always try to keep the weight down because each g introduces additional problems for the head, tripod, my arms, etc. That's one reason why I got the Tamron 150-600 instead of the Sigma sports, for example. As a fluid head I use a Gitzo ghf2w that only weights ~600g and still works smoothly with the ~3kg total system weight. I walk quite some distances in a wood/swamp area and I know that I would not be willing to carry much more weight than I have now.

And yes: some nature documentaries nicely demonstrate what is possible and can give a lot of inspiration for my own projects.
 
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