What about the smaller cameras?

.... so curious what you think its shortcoming are? I have "proper" cameras for serious photography but looking to upgrade my GX1 as my travel-light camera.

I'm looking for a far better LCD screen and WiFi capability. I felt quite left out recently on a "girls reunion" trip where the others were sharing their phone photos :-D

Is the WiFi easy to use? My newer cameras connect more easily than the GH3 I had. The GF7 screen has double the resolution of the GX1 - so hopefully is crisp and bright?

Or would a GX850 be a better option?
Well, I never used the GX1 (or any other GX, for that matter), nor the GH3, so cannot really compare, but:

- LCD screen: like I mentioned, I never, ever wished I had an EVF - I like the image, it looks very bright and sharp.

- Wifi: I don't use it very often, but it works very well and consistently - I'm not sure what your issues were with the GH3? I suspect it is the same steps for every Panasonic camera, which I see you have quite a few! :) (I had described the wifi connection procedure but deleted it as I guess you know it by now...) my point is, it should work just as well as in your other cameras (G7/G85?)

as to the GX850 (GX800/GF9), I just did a bit a research, because as mentioned in this thread, not much has progressed in terms of hardware since the GF7 - here it is, I hope it helps you decide whether it's worth it:

GF7 -> GF9

  • 4K video and photo
  • DFD autofocus
GF9 --> GF10
  • New front grip
  • New colours (tan brown, all black, white)
  • New multi-shot night portrait mode
  • 4K photo crops less of the photo.
 
Is the WiFi easy to use?
Or would a GX850 be a better option?
WiFi got a lot better since I first got a Panasonic (LF1) in 2014. Somewhere along the line it became usable. It also depends on the phone you have, my iPhone 6 was distinctly flaky with the GX850, the iPhone 8 is pretty solid.

I often use it for remote control, or to transfer a pic while I'm out. It usually works without a problem.

The GX9, with the help of BTLE make it even easier. That's something I'm looking forward to on the next GF/GXxxx.
 
I bought up GM1 and then GM5 cameras when their price dropped. Obviously when Panasonic realised that their basic model could be built for the price the market wanted to pay they dropped the GM series cameras as the GF7 series was more profitable.

But the GF-7 to GX950 was only a place-holder with annual make-overs - I don’t think that the GX950 was ever sold outside Japan and it seems that even that line is now discontinued.

The basic difference was that the GM1 and GM5 were actually slightly different versions of the same thing and have become timeless. they were high quality camera bodies - not just small and limited.

The GF7 and successors seems to have needed the annual makeover with revised styling and a creeping feature set. Despite the series advancing in some areas over the GM series there seem little doubt that the GM series was smaller, better built, timeless and needed no makeover support. Short of a 20mp sensor there is nothing much that a (say) GM5 might need to be revised with.

The use of a 20mp sensor and some firmware updates would probably mean that a GM5ii would be impossibly priced again on the market and as such existing GM owners (the main market base) would decide that their present GM camera did not really need upgrading just yet.

Consequently the market for a GM upgrade might not exist until the present used GM bodies start to wear out. Even if a 24 mp sensor were to appear then the GM owners might skip the “old 20mp sensor) and decide to wait for the 24mp version.

And so the market for a GM series with upgraded sensor might never eventuate.

Meanwhile I am still very happy with my GM camera bodies and a lot of this comes from using such lenses as the Nocticron 42.5/1.2, Olmpus 75/1.8 and Panasonic 35-100/2.8 on them. It is quite surprising just how much a really good lens “improves” the 16mp sensor.
 
I still maintain that Panasonic could make a decent profit from developing an EVF that could fit on all the smaller camera hot-shoes. They made one once, so they could easily do it again. I'd buy one in a heart-beat for the wife's GM5, and then I'd probably buy a GX800 to go with it.
 
The GM1 and GM5 (based on launch price, build and capability) were meant as serious cameras.

But the trouble there is that there was never a path to upgrade them with more features as to do so would likely make them into different cameras. Because they are so well made they are unlikely to get a new sensor soon and most of their present owners are surely happy with the cameras that they have.

So it might be logical for a re-issue of a GM5 at some stage in the future when the present cameras start to wear out. This might be a while yet so the only GM1 or GM5 bodies that can be had must be bought on the second hand market.
When the GM1 was released, reviewers and observers of all kind complained about the lack of a viewfinder. Panasonic heard the complaints and released the the slightly bigger GM5 with a built-in EVF but people kept on complaining that it had no tiltable screen, no IBIS, no 4K video, a too tiny battery and so on.

Then the GX80/85 came. It has a tiltable screen, IBIS, 4K video and a larger battery but, guess what, it is much bigger and heavier than a GM5. And it has no 20MPix sensor. That's why there is the GX9, a bit bulkier than the GX80/85 but with the latest 20MPix sensor.

OK, the GX9 should make everybody happy then... In fact not, because people are now complaining that the newer cameras are too bulky and ask for a successor to the GM1/GM5...

Me, I'm happy with my GM5s as they are. I know that a better speced camera will necessarily be bigger (and I also don't want to downgrade to a GX850).

Cheers!

Abbazz
 
I would be very interested in your opinion of the GX9 , when coming from a GF (GX800) camera.
It's a brick.

It feels a lot bigger and heavier than I expected, not helped by the camera search tool here getting it's weight wrong (it says 407g). It's 450g (with card and batteries), compared to 269g. It also feels bigger than I expected, it's about as big as my 35mm film SLR (which is 530g).

What probably doesn't help is it's very angular, it has square corners rather than the rounded ends of the GX850.

I prefer the twirly wheel on the back of the GX850 to the ones on the GX9. The GX9 has 2 knobs to twirl, which might be an advantage if I got used to it. They're a bit stiff so I found twirling one was moving the camera while on a tripod.

The lack of the knurling on the rear buttons (on the GX850 they're the twirly knob) meant I couldn't differentiate them by touch. I keep hitting one of the 4 buttons instead of the centre OK button.

Talking of tripods, the tripod mount is very far forward, there's nothing apart form the screw to stop the camera rocking forward, so if I didn't tighten the tripod screw with a tool, the camera would rock. All other cameras I get away with finger tight.

One amusing thing, the port cover is quite trick, and obviously very tricky. It comes with a little piece of paper explaining how to open it. I still couldn't open it. I consulted the manual, and still couldn't open it. It took a little more puzzling to work out what it's telling me. Once you know the secret it works quite well, but it obviously puzzles most of Panasonic's customers.

It doesn't have the two large handy function buttons on the top plate that I use a lot on the GX850. They're now small inconspicuous buttons on the back plate. One of them is the EVF/Monitor switch. Luckily the eye sensor is sensitive enough I don't think I need to use the EVF/Monitor button.

Amusingly the eye sensor is by default set to high sensitivity, if anything comes within 3 inches of it, the monitor will turn off. It took me a while to work out why the monitor kept flickering, my hand or arm passing by on the way to pressing a button was enough to set it off.

The EVF while nice does suffer from rainbow tearing for me. It may not be enough to dissuade me from using it, but could definitely be better. With my glasses on, I can't see all of the EVF screen at once, I have to move my eye around to see all the indicators.

I think the EV compensation dial is a waste of space, but that's mainly because I use manual most of the time and don't need to bother with it.

I'm really not impressed with the form factor, so I'm thinking of sending it back.

What is good about it is IBIS and BTLE, which is what I really wanted. I haven't had much chance to use the IBIS, but my initial impression is that it works very well, which makes my 20/1.7 much more useful. Most of my other lenses are themselves stabilized. This is the feature least likely to get on to a small camera.

I was particularly interested in the BTLE. This can supply GPS to the camera, and work as a simple remote release. Both of these work reasonably well, mainly dependent on the flakiness of the BTLE connection. I had the Image app crash on me and BlueTooth no longer worked until I turned it off an back on on my iPhone.

The BTLE successfully supplies GPS coordinates to the camera. It does take a few seconds after turn on for that to work. There's a GPS (BT) icon on screen to tell you it's working, though I'm not entirely sure it always worked as soon as the icon appeared.

The remote release is a screen on the Image app which just does the shutter, and nothing else, and works entirely over BTLE, so is not subject to the vagaries of the WiFi.

The good thing is there's no reason why a small camera should not get BTLE.

I'd also be interested in trying out wireless flash, but I haven't got that far yet. That's also a function it should be possible to put in a small camera.

There's a few other functions I discovered going through the menus, but I can't remember most of them currently. There's a highlight and shadows function which might be interesting, and is probably jpeg only.

I like the MyMenu, we could do with that on the GXxxx/GFx series.

It does have the C "Custom" setting on the mode dial. That's handy, on previous cameras I've set that up as a mode for my wife to use (who's initial is "C"). That's missing on the GX850.

I like that the screen flips down 45°, I've sometimes wanted that on the GX850. Flipping up 90° is probably OK, but I've gotten used to being about to flip the screen 180° and operate it from the front in some circumstances.

Edit to add:

I don't need the 20Mpix, I find the 16Mp is currently have quite sufficient. I definitely don't need 5.6MB jpegs and 24MB RAW files (compared to 4.4 and 20).

The faster mechanical shutter, with faster flash sync, on the GX9 is definitely something I'd like to have.
Barry has hit on many good points above regarding the GX9. I won't argue them, I will just offer my view as well. I have the GX1 and the GX9 and now I use the GX9 pretty much all the time. I personally enjoy having all the dials and controls at my fingertips instead of mostly in the menu system. I appreciate the upgraded image quality and the IBIS. Naturally I'd love all these features in a smaller and lighter camera, but the size of the GX9 does not bother me. However, I came from many years of using Nikon APS-C systems. I realize this thread is specifically about smaller size cameras and therefore most posters here are coming at this comparison from the other direction than I am.
 
Lots of people here like a smaller camera, but they can't agree on what it does. Every time someone starts a thread, there's a lot of "I'd buy it if it had ...". If it had everything everyone wants, it'd no longer be small.

I've very happy with my GX850, I'd love an EVF, but I can live without it. There are two features I'd really like to see, BTLE and IBIS. I doubt they can fit the full GX9 style IBIS in a small form factor camera, but the EPL-10 just came out with only 3 axis, maybe they can do that, and the lens can do the other 2.

I'm tired of waiting for the next GX8xx/GF11 so I just decided to try a GX9, which has those features, and all reviews say it's small. It's an enormous brick compared to the GX850.
I would be very interested in your opinion of the GX9 , when coming from a GF (GX800) camera.
It's a brick.

It feels a lot bigger and heavier than I expected, not helped by the camera search tool here getting it's weight wrong (it says 407g). It's 450g (with card and batteries), compared to 269g. It also feels bigger than I expected, it's about as big as my 35mm film SLR (which is 530g).

What probably doesn't help is it's very angular, it has square corners rather than the rounded ends of the GX850.
I agree. I usually carry my camera slung over my shoulder or around the neck and the GX800 is way more comfortable. 200g doesn't sound a lot but combined with the shape of the cameras and the fact that the GX800 doesn't have a protruding EVF makes a big difference when carrying them.
I prefer the twirly wheel on the back of the GX850 to the ones on the GX9. The GX9 has 2 knobs to twirl, which might be an advantage if I got used to it. They're a bit stiff so I found twirling one was moving the camera while on a tripod.

The lack of the knurling on the rear buttons (on the GX850 they're the twirly knob) meant I couldn't differentiate them by touch. I keep hitting one of the 4 buttons instead of the centre OK button.
The twirly wheel on the back is surprisingly easy to use. I can change aperture and exposure comp faster than on the GX9 because the wheel is looser and easier to move. It's not so loose that I cannot move it precisely either. The exposure comp dial on the GX9 looks nice but is less practical.
Talking of tripods, the tripod mount is very far forward, there's nothing apart form the screw to stop the camera rocking forward, so if I didn't tighten the tripod screw with a tool, the camera would rock. All other cameras I get away with finger tight.

One amusing thing, the port cover is quite trick, and obviously very tricky. It comes with a little piece of paper explaining how to open it. I still couldn't open it. I consulted the manual, and still couldn't open it. It took a little more puzzling to work out what it's telling me. Once you know the secret it works quite well, but it obviously puzzles most of Panasonic's customers.

It doesn't have the two large handy function buttons on the top plate that I use a lot on the GX850. They're now small inconspicuous buttons on the back plate. One of them is the EVF/Monitor switch. Luckily the eye sensor is sensitive enough I don't think I need to use the EVF/Monitor button.
Yes the top buttons are much easier to find quickly.
Amusingly the eye sensor is by default set to high sensitivity, if anything comes within 3 inches of it, the monitor will turn off. It took me a while to work out why the monitor kept flickering, my hand or arm passing by on the way to pressing a button was enough to set it off.

The EVF while nice does suffer from rainbow tearing for me. It may not be enough to dissuade me from using it, but could definitely be better. With my glasses on, I can't see all of the EVF screen at once, I have to move my eye around to see all the indicators.

I think the EV compensation dial is a waste of space, but that's mainly because I use manual most of the time and don't need to bother with it.

I'm really not impressed with the form factor, so I'm thinking of sending it back.

What is good about it is IBIS and BTLE, which is what I really wanted. I haven't had much chance to use the IBIS, but my initial impression is that it works very well, which makes my 20/1.7 much more useful. Most of my other lenses are themselves stabilized. This is the feature least likely to get on to a small camera.

I was particularly interested in the BTLE. This can supply GPS to the camera, and work as a simple remote release. Both of these work reasonably well, mainly dependent on the flakiness of the BTLE connection. I had the Image app crash on me and BlueTooth no longer worked until I turned it off an back on on my iPhone.

The BTLE successfully supplies GPS coordinates to the camera. It does take a few seconds after turn on for that to work. There's a GPS (BT) icon on screen to tell you it's working, though I'm not entirely sure it always worked as soon as the icon appeared.

The remote release is a screen on the Image app which just does the shutter, and nothing else, and works entirely over BTLE, so is not subject to the vagaries of the WiFi.

The good thing is there's no reason why a small camera should not get BTLE.

I'd also be interested in trying out wireless flash, but I haven't got that far yet. That's also a function it should be possible to put in a small camera.

There's a few other functions I discovered going through the menus, but I can't remember most of them currently. There's a highlight and shadows function which might be interesting, and is probably jpeg only.

I like the MyMenu, we could do with that on the GXxxx/GFx series.

It does have the C "Custom" setting on the mode dial. That's handy, on previous cameras I've set that up as a mode for my wife to use (who's initial is "C"). That's missing on the GX850.

I like that the screen flips down 45°, I've sometimes wanted that on the GX850. Flipping up 90° is probably OK, but I've gotten used to being about to flip the screen 180° and operate it from the front in some circumstances.

Edit to add:

I don't need the 20Mpix, I find the 16Mp is currently have quite sufficient. I definitely don't need 5.6MB jpegs and 24MB RAW files (compared to 4.4 and 20).

The faster mechanical shutter, with faster flash sync, on the GX9 is definitely something I'd like to have.
The shutter is the one problem with the GX800/850. It can't exposures longer than a minute. The GX9 can go up to 30 minutes. If this is something that could be changed in a new model, I wouldn't need anything other than the entry level model.

I was surprised to find someone who has almost the exact same experiences when using the GX800 especially when compared to the GX9. Glad to see I'm not the only one!
 
Their E-PL10 and GF10 models are very similar to models circa 2014/15 (E-PL7, GF7, respectively)
You've seen the specs on the E-PL10? If so, tell us all about it.
anybody else is keeping an eye of the these cameras?
A major upgrade would finally get me to sell my E-PL5. Something like 5-axis IBIS might do it.
 
.... so curious what you think its shortcoming are? I have "proper" cameras for serious photography but looking to upgrade my GX1 as my travel-light camera.

I'm looking for a far better LCD screen and WiFi capability. I felt quite left out recently on a "girls reunion" trip where the others were sharing their phone photos :-D

Is the WiFi easy to use? My newer cameras connect more easily than the GH3 I had. The GF7 screen has double the resolution of the GX1 - so hopefully is crisp and bright?

Or would a GX850 be a better option?
Well, I never used the GX1 (or any other GX, for that matter), nor the GH3, so cannot really compare, but:

- LCD screen: like I mentioned, I never, ever wished I had an EVF - I like the image, it looks very bright and sharp.

- Wifi: I don't use it very often, but it works very well and consistently - I'm not sure what your issues were with the GH3? I suspect it is the same steps for every Panasonic camera, which I see you have quite a few! :) (I had described the wifi connection procedure but deleted it as I guess you know it by now...) my point is, it should work just as well as in your other cameras (G7/G85?)

as to the GX850 (GX800/GF9), I just did a bit a research, because as mentioned in this thread, not much has progressed in terms of hardware since the GF7 - here it is, I hope it helps you decide whether it's worth it:

GF7 -> GF9
  • 4K video and photo
  • DFD autofocus
GF9 --> GF10
  • New front grip
  • New colours (tan brown, all black, white)
  • New multi-shot night portrait mode
  • 4K photo crops less of the photo.
Thanks! Sounds like it should be adequate for a "handbag" camera for me. :)
 
Is the WiFi easy to use?

Or would a GX850 be a better option?
WiFi got a lot better since I first got a Panasonic (LF1) in 2014. Somewhere along the line it became usable. It also depends on the phone you have, my iPhone 6 was distinctly flaky with the GX850, the iPhone 8 is pretty solid.

I often use it for remote control, or to transfer a pic while I'm out. It usually works without a problem.

The GX9, with the help of BTLE make it even easier. That's something I'm looking forward to on the next GF/GXxxx.
Good point. I updated my phone a couple of years ago. That could make a difference! Also the App has been updated, so could help too. There was Lumix Link, and Image App...... I believe.
 
Their E-PL10 and GF10 models are very similar to models circa 2014/15 (E-PL7, GF7, respectively)
You've seen the specs on the E-PL10? If so, tell us all about it.
Hi. It's been announced:


But people are not convinced about it:

anybody else is keeping an eye of the these cameras?
A major upgrade would finally get me to sell my E-PL5. Something like 5-axis IBIS might do it.
Sorry, don't think IBIS has been upgraded
--
It ain't easy being me, but someone's gotta do it.
 
Lots of people here like a smaller camera, but they can't agree on what it does. Every time someone starts a thread, there's a lot of "I'd buy it if it had ...". If it had everything everyone wants, it'd no longer be small.

I've very happy with my GX850, I'd love an EVF, but I can live without it. There are two features I'd really like to see, BTLE and IBIS. I doubt they can fit the full GX9 style IBIS in a small form factor camera, but the EPL-10 just came out with only 3 axis, maybe they can do that, and the lens can do the other 2.

I'm tired of waiting for the next GX8xx/GF11 so I just decided to try a GX9, which has those features, and all reviews say it's small. It's an enormous brick compared to the GX850.
I would be very interested in your opinion of the GX9 , when coming from a GF (GX800) camera.
It's a brick.

It feels a lot bigger and heavier than I expected, not helped by the camera search tool here getting it's weight wrong (it says 407g). It's 450g (with card and batteries), compared to 269g. It also feels bigger than I expected, it's about as big as my 35mm film SLR (which is 530g).

What probably doesn't help is it's very angular, it has square corners rather than the rounded ends of the GX850.
...

Here's some comparison shots.

I was looking for another LF1 (front), but there's no such thing anymore, so I compromised and got the GX850 (2nd), I got 5x the sensor area. The GX9 is just so much bigger, hardly different from my old SLR.

a31499fbf30c4c67a3f1f924853d5e15.jpg

And from the front.

ab45221daa8c4a608b85a7236515a848.jpg
 
Yes. Since I moved to GX80 few years back, I am also hoping Panny update their GM series, or come up with a new range that is small, compact and very competent. I'm happy to see that I'm not to only one wanting something smaller to bring with me all the time. Seeing I got company, forgive me as I will rant a little here :-D

I can understand that the GF/GXxxx line from Panasonic (and the E-PLx from Oly) is the most compact M43, but since it targets at beginners and budget market, it dumped down in areas of build, control and features which I know both companies are more than capable to address technically in a small-body M43 camera.

As an example, Ricoh GR iii is that great large sensor compact camera that works like a fully-featured DSLR (minus the ability to change lens though). It has great controls, better DR and noise control and with IBIS too. Granted it is not interchangeable lens camera, hence seems like Panasonic uses LX100ii to counter the GR (and to certain extent Sony RX100).

So, rather than following what Ricoh and Sony did and trail behind their wave, be the market disruptor by producing a M43 body as small and capable like Ricoh GR, while allowing us to use the the great pancake lenses from Panny and Oly. It doesn't need to be as small as the GM series, but it should check some of the following points:

1. Size which can pass the trouser pocket test with the 14mm f2.5 lens on.

2. Bring back optional EVF so those who need it can buy as an add-on. (I had this when using GF1/GX1)

3. Remove the flash and do without articulating screen (or limited flip screen), so it doesn't cannibalize GFx series,

4. Reduce the IBIS capability so it's less power hungry, provide 1 dial instead of 2 so it does not not cannibalize the GXxx/Gx series (well, remove IBIS also that's fine to keep the weight/size down, but should look at including it in subsequent model update)

5. Launch it with newly designed 14mm lens that is very sharp like the Ricoh GR ones. (please refresh 20mm f1.7 too please for faster focus)
 
We have GX850 (GF9), then the latest GF10 to keep the entry line of product alive. Because of it incremental upgrade every generation, just has not drawn the public attention as its bigger brothers only.
I think that' part of the problem, the identification of 'small' with 'entry level'. The mFT manufacturers could do with breaking that link and releasing 'small' and full-spec.
 
Seeing as how Panasonic got burnt by the GM line selling poorly, I suspect that they would be very unwilling to do it again in an era when almost everyone now can have a phone in their pocket with similar IQ (or so the users would like to think). I think the rapidly improving specs of mobile phones coming through nowadays have really put a nail in the coffin of any idea anyone may have of another GM-sized model. I would love to be surprised at some stage, but I just do not think the market share for such a model would make it a financial viability.
 
Seeing as how Panasonic got burnt by the GM line selling poorly, I suspect that they would be very unwilling to do it again in an era when almost everyone now can have a phone in their pocket with similar IQ (or so the users would like to think). I think the rapidly improving specs of mobile phones coming through nowadays have really put a nail in the coffin of any idea anyone may have of another GM-sized model. I would love to be surprised at some stage, but I just do not think the market share for such a model would make it a financial viability.
But the GM line was not a very small top-spec model, it was a very small base spec model. You maybe right about how Panasonic sees it, but it's a clear example of what I was warning about, mixing up small and low-spec.
 
I’ve used the GF7 for a couple of years now. Compared to GM and G bodies it looks cheap and plasticky but, see past that, and it is every bit as capable. The tilting screen works very well and for low cathedral shots is great on a mini tripod.

I only use the WiFi for transfers to my iPad when travelling, only good for Jpeg. For RAW you have to use Apples adapter and plugin the SD card.

Later models add features like DDD and 4K, depending on you needs and offer prices, take your pick. Do carry at least one spare battery, preferably 2 or three.

GF7 images https://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/albums/72157688671554052
 
Seeing as how Panasonic got burnt by the GM line selling poorly, I suspect that they would be very unwilling to do it again in an era when almost everyone now can have a phone in their pocket with similar IQ (or so the users would like to think). I think the rapidly improving specs of mobile phones coming through nowadays have really put a nail in the coffin of any idea anyone may have of another GM-sized model. I would love to be surprised at some stage, but I just do not think the market share for such a model would make it a financial viability.
But the GM line was not a very small top-spec model, it was a very small base spec model.
The body is simply too small to be ergonomically sounded.

Putting top specs (20mp, pdaf etc) without all the dials and customizable buttons (due to lack of space) is useless and won't sell..

Small body is mainly targeted at women (at least that's how the Japanese sees it) who wants a camera simple and automatic everything.

I believe most enthusiast want and prefer a bigger body (think em5).

Small and top specs is highly niched with no money to be made. I mean if they make a top specc'ed GM sized camera that cost the same if not more than an EM5.3 but still behind in ergonomics who in the right mind will buy that?
You maybe right about how Panasonic sees it, but it's a clear example of what I was warning about, mixing up small and low-spec.

--
...because you know, sometimes words have two meanings.
 
Seeing as how Panasonic got burnt by the GM line selling poorly, I suspect that they would be very unwilling to do it again in an era when almost everyone now can have a phone in their pocket with similar IQ (or so the users would like to think). I think the rapidly improving specs of mobile phones coming through nowadays have really put a nail in the coffin of any idea anyone may have of another GM-sized model. I would love to be surprised at some stage, but I just do not think the market share for such a model would make it a financial viability.
But the GM line was not a very small top-spec model, it was a very small base spec model.
The body is simply too small to be ergonomically sounded.
I'm not convinced that's the case. It might require a bit of thinking outside the box about how the controls work, but I don't think that's undoable.
Putting top specs (20mp, pdaf etc) without all the dials and customizable buttons (due to lack of space) is useless and won't sell..
See the above. There have been plenty of small cameras which are eminently usable in the past. The idea that it must be big to be usable is part of the whole 'small is low-end' myth, or at least post-rationalising it.
Small body is mainly targeted at women (at least that's how the Japanese sees it) who wants a camera simple and automatic everything.
If you're right then I think that's a big marketing mistake.
I believe most enthusiast want and prefer a bigger body (think em5).
Most enthusiasts have plenty pf big bodies to choose from, if that's what they want. Many of those bug bodies use the bigness to deliver things that mFT can't. This is about finding niches - even if it doesn't get you 'most' it gets you those that want something different from what 'most' want.
Small and top specs is highly niched with no money to be made.
I agree on the highly niched, I disagree on the 'no money to be made'. In any case that's a moot point, because it isn't making money anyway.
I mean if they make a top specc'ed GM sized camera that cost the same if not more than an EM5.3 but still behind in ergonomics who in the right mind will buy that?
I don't think it should be 'behind in ergonomics', but the general answer is, those for whom having a small camera allows them to do things they can't do with a big camera.
You maybe right about how Panasonic sees it, but it's a clear example of what I was warning about, mixing up small and low-spec.
 
Yes. Since I moved to GX80 few years back, I am also hoping Panny update their GM series, or come up with a new range that is small, compact and very competent. I'm happy to see that I'm not to only one wanting something smaller to bring with me all the time. Seeing I got company, forgive me as I will rant a little here :-D

I can understand that the GF/GXxxx line from Panasonic (and the E-PLx from Oly) is the most compact M43, but since it targets at beginners and budget market, it dumped down in areas of build, control and features which I know both companies are more than capable to address technically in a small-body M43 camera.

As an example, Ricoh GR iii is that great large sensor compact camera that works like a fully-featured DSLR (minus the ability to change lens though). It has great controls, better DR and noise control and with IBIS too. Granted it is not interchangeable lens camera, hence seems like Panasonic uses LX100ii to counter the GR (and to certain extent Sony RX100).

So, rather than following what Ricoh and Sony did and trail behind their wave, be the market disruptor by producing a M43 body as small and capable like Ricoh GR, while allowing us to use the the great pancake lenses from Panny and Oly. It doesn't need to be as small as the GM series, but it should check some of the following points:

1. Size which can pass the trouser pocket test with the 14mm f2.5 lens on.

2. Bring back optional EVF so those who need it can buy as an add-on. (I had this when using GF1/GX1)

3. Remove the flash and do without articulating screen (or limited flip screen), so it doesn't cannibalize GFx series,

4. Reduce the IBIS capability so it's less power hungry, provide 1 dial instead of 2 so it does not not cannibalize the GXxx/Gx series (well, remove IBIS also that's fine to keep the weight/size down, but should look at including it in subsequent model update)

5. Launch it with newly designed 14mm lens that is very sharp like the Ricoh GR ones. (please refresh 20mm f1.7 too please for faster focus)
I'll take a discounted GX80 thanks.
 

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