Sony a7RIV vs a7RIII IBIS performance

JimKasson

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Several people have said that the IBIS algorithms on the a7RIV are improved over those of the a7RIII, and have cited some vague Sony marketing materials as their justification for their beliefs. I admit to some skepticism, but was sufficiently intrigued to run a test. I used a Zeiss Batis 135 mm f/2.8 lens on each camera. I set up on this target:



3bd8798597b441c3ba3c7e30b3bda37a.jpg



I used the following test conditions
  • AF-C, medium spot
  • Continuous low drive mode
  • EFCS
  • Uncompressed Raw
  • ISO 100
  • f/4
  • Exposure mode A
  • Aputure 120d II LED, 12-inch parabolic reflector, remotely controlled
With each camera, with IBIS off, I turned the light up all the way, which gave me a shutter speed of 1/400 second. I made 25 continuous-drive exposures, turned the light down about a stop, and did it again. I kept on doing that until the shutter speed seemed silly, then turned IBIS on and ran the series again.

I ended up with about 600 images. I developed them in Lightroom, with default settigs except for the following:
  • White balance set to flash
  • Sharpening turned off
  • Noise reduction turned off
I manually adjusted the cropping in Lightroom for each image so that they were centered. This was no fun, but the target that I used doesn't support auto-alignment. I computed the MTF50 -- a nice proxy for sharpness -- for all the images with Imatest. Imatest spit out the data in cycles per pixel. I converted that to cycles per picture height to put both cameras on more of an even footing.

I spent an hour or so crunching the data in Excel. Here's what I got for the a7RIV:



c8ef5802bb3d4fb49a573a4da64aaaa7.jpg.png





The vertical axis is the MTF 50 in cycles per picture height. The horizontal axis is the denominator of the shutter speed -- 1/100 second is plotted as 100. The heavy lines are the mean (aka mu, aka average) values. The thinner lines are the mean minus the standard deviation (aka sigma). at 1/400 second, the results are about the same. But all lower shutter speeds aren't so hot with IBIS off. 1/200 seco0nd with IBIS off is, on average, about the same as 1/30 second with it on. I know some of you are fond of thinking about IBIS improvement in stops; the span from 1/30 to 1/200 is a bit less than 3 stops.

Here are the a7RIII results:



d6c8e7f621554ab7b19fa7589f480210.jpg.png



The improvement is somewhat less.

Here are the IBIS-on results for both cameras:



8f9c1ebf1c7d43869f9825cebc520967.jpg.png



The reason that the a7RIV is sharper at high shutter speeds is that the camera has a smaller pixel aperture due to its finer pixel pitch. It's go nothing to do with IBIS. But the a7RIV curve is flatter, indicating that the IBIS is working a little better. Not night and day, but not nothing, either. Note that when things go to hell with the a7RIV, they do so more dramatically.

Because the Zeiss Batis 135 has built-in optical stabilization, neither camera is using IBIS for yaw and pitch, but they are using their stabilization algorithms. I may try again with a lens that has no built-in stabilization, but I may not, because I expect roughly the same results, and thanks to the manual alignment required, this test is labor-intensive.

Continuous shooting is not a particularly good way to minimize shake. If you use single shot shooting, you can probably do a lot better than I did, but the differences between the cameras is likely to be more or less the same.

I'd be happy to answer questions.



Jim

--
 
Jim,

Thank you for that work. You are a gluten for punishment just to satisfy other people's curiosity but I'm sure there are many others who will thank you as well. Obviously, the "improved" IBIS will not be the compelling argument to upgrade from R3 to R4. In my case it was haptics, battery and AF that made me go from an R2 to R4.
 
Thank you for that work. You are a gluten for punishment just to satisfy other people's curiosity but I'm sure there are many others who will thank you as well. Obviously, the "improved" IBIS will not be the compelling argument to upgrade from R3 to R4. In my case it was haptics, battery and AF that made me go from an R2 to R4.
Actually, I did the testing to satisfy my own curiosity. It is nice to share the results with others, but I I didn't care about what I was testing and the results, it wouldn't be nearly as satisfying to me.

Jim
 
So the movement that IBIS had to compensate came from you hand-holding the camera?
 
So the movement that IBIS had to compensate came from you hand-holding the camera?
Correct. As I said in an earlier thread, I don’t own a CIPA robot.
 
Thanks for sharing your test results! Is there any reliable way to test how well IBIS works for video? I assume that is more about travel or image circle and won't change much.
Thank you for that work. You are a gluten for punishment
Hehehe, that is the worse thing you can do to a hipster right?
 
Last edited:
Several people have said that the IBIS algorithms on the a7RIV are improved over those of the a7RIII, and have cited some vague Sony marketing materials as their justification for their beliefs. I admit to some skepticism, but was sufficiently intrigued to run a test. I used a Zeiss Batis 135 mm f/2.8 lens on each camera. I set up on this target:

3bd8798597b441c3ba3c7e30b3bda37a.jpg

I used the following test conditions
  • AF-C, medium spot
  • Continuous low drive mode
  • EFCS
  • Uncompressed Raw
  • ISO 100
  • f/4
  • Exposure mode A
  • Aputure 120d II LED, 12-inch parabolic reflector, remotely controlled
With each camera, with IBIS off, I turned the light up all the way, which gave me a shutter speed of 1/400 second. I made 25 continuous-drive exposures, turned the light down about a stop, and did it again. I kept on doing that until the shutter speed seemed silly, then turned IBIS on and ran the series again.

I ended up with about 600 images. I developed them in Lightroom, with default settigs except for the following:
  • White balance set to flash
  • Sharpening turned off
  • Noise reduction turned off
I manually adjusted the cropping in Lightroom for each image so that they were centered. This was no fun, but the target that I used doesn't support auto-alignment. I computed the MTF50 -- a nice proxy for sharpness -- for all the images with Imatest. Imatest spit out the data in cycles per pixel. I converted that to cycles per picture height to put both cameras on more of an even footing.

I spent an hour or so crunching the data in Excel. Here's what I got for the a7RIV:

c8ef5802bb3d4fb49a573a4da64aaaa7.jpg.png

The vertical axis is the MTF 50 in cycles per picture height. The horizontal axis is the denominator of the shutter speed -- 1/100 second is plotted as 100. The heavy lines are the mean (aka mu, aka average) values. The thinner lines are the mean minus the standard deviation (aka sigma). at 1/400 second, the results are about the same. But all lower shutter speeds aren't so hot with IBIS off. 1/200 seco0nd with IBIS off is, on average, about the same as 1/30 second with it on. I know some of you are fond of thinking about IBIS improvement in stops; the span from 1/30 to 1/200 is a bit less than 3 stops.

Here are the a7RIII results:

d6c8e7f621554ab7b19fa7589f480210.jpg.png

The improvement is somewhat less.

Here are the IBIS-on results for both cameras:

8f9c1ebf1c7d43869f9825cebc520967.jpg.png

The reason that the a7RIV is sharper at high shutter speeds is that the camera has a smaller pixel aperture due to its finer pixel pitch. It's go nothing to do with IBIS. But the a7RIV curve is flatter, indicating that the IBIS is working a little better. Not night and day, but not nothing, either. Note that when things go to hell with the a7RIV, they do so more dramatically.

Because the Zeiss Batis 135 has built-in optical stabilization, neither camera is using IBIS for yaw and pitch, but they are using their stabilization algorithms. I may try again with a lens that has no built-in stabilization, but I may not, because I expect roughly the same results, and thanks to the manual alignment required, this test is labor-intensive.

Continuous shooting is not a particularly good way to minimize shake. If you use single shot shooting, you can probably do a lot better than I did, but the differences between the cameras is likely to be more or less the same.

I'd be happy to answer questions.

Jim
Thanks for sharing. Very thorough.

So overall it sounds like the improvements are very marginal at best. Marketing again ;)

I’m guessing mostly realized via tweaking the IBIS software rather than some advanced new alien technology.

Anyway, it’s very interesting to me as I might possibly be interested in acquiring the upcoming A9ii and it will almost certainly employ the same IBIS system.

I do wonder if IBIS was a consideration when the E-Mount’s somewhat constrictive diameter was decided, someone else raised this point and it’s certainly food for thought. If not it would be a typical engineering snafu.
 
Last edited:
So overall it sounds like the improvements are very marginal at best. Marketing again ;)
That's a bit tough.

The IBIS on the a7Riii is already very good for stills (I haven't used it for video so I won't comment on that).

However I think if, as seems to be the case, Sony have been able to make a measurable improvement over what was already quite a capable system, they have every right to mention in in their promotional information - without suffering insinuations that they are somehow misleading us.
 
So overall it sounds like the improvements are very marginal at best. Marketing again ;)
That's a bit tough.

The IBIS on the a7Riii is already very good for stills (I haven't used it for video so I won't comment on that).

However I think if, as seems to be the case, Sony have been able to make a measurable improvement over what was already quite a capable system, they have every right to mention in in their promotional information - without suffering insinuations that they are somehow misleading us.
I didn’t say that it was bad, but personally I will not be upgrading for any marginal improvement in the IBIS.

I need a much better reason than that to part with all those $’s.
 
Thank you for that work. You are a gluten for punishment just to satisfy other people's curiosity but I'm sure there are many others who will thank you as well. Obviously, the "improved" IBIS will not be the compelling argument to upgrade from R3 to R4. In my case it was haptics, battery and AF that made me go from an R2 to R4.
Actually, I did the testing to satisfy my own curiosity. It is nice to share the results with others, but I I didn't care about what I was testing and the results, it wouldn't be nearly as satisfying to me.

Jim
Thanks Jim, it is always helpful to see testing from someone whom we can rely on being accurate.
 
Because the Zeiss Batis 135 has built-in optical stabilization, neither camera is using IBIS for yaw and pitch
For me that seems like a pretty huge omission in the test.
Feel free to perform the test the way you want it done and report the results here.

I'd love to see them.

Jim
 
For video IBIS testing, maybe you (not you - just anybody in general) could build a small tricycle wagon with purposefully decentered or uneven wheels of different diameters. Something anybody can build easily without screwing up ;)

That way you could get repeatable pseudo-random motions by putting the camera on it and moving it towards a target disc. Then analyse the offsets with a video editing software that has some sort of optical tracking. You could vary the height of the camera above the wheels to increase the magnitude of the motions and reset the position of the wheels to get the same irregular motions again.

Just some rambling (haha!) thoughts :)
 
Jim,

As I said before, thank you for the work you have done. I forgot to mention your patient restraint with your critics that adds a civilized tone to this forum. I also forgot to add that "no good deed goes unpunished".
 
Thank you for that work. You are a gluten for punishment just to satisfy other people's curiosity but I'm sure there are many others who will thank you as well. Obviously, the "improved" IBIS will not be the compelling argument to upgrade from R3 to R4. In my case it was haptics, battery and AF that made me go from an R2 to R4.
Actually, I did the testing to satisfy my own curiosity. It is nice to share the results with others, but I I didn't care about what I was testing and the results, it wouldn't be nearly as satisfying to me.

Jim

--
https://blog.kasson.com
thanks Jim! I’m so happy that you are such a curious photographer and like to share your results. Your contribution to progress the understanding of how imaging systems work is truly one of a kind.
 
Note that when things go to hell with the a7RIV, they do so more dramatically.
Isn't the slower SSs where one wouldn't want things going to hell more dramatically? I wonder why this is?
 
unless of course you have a stabilizer.

If I remember correctly, Ansel Adams recommended 1/5x focal length, but I suppose that was on a larger format.
 

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